Explosions at Boston Marathon

[Yorkshire pud]

Anyone using this or any tragedy for personal gain or to score political points is a scumball lowlife.  Speculation is one thing, but no one should be making charges against any group - in this case flat out stating it's a False Flag - with no proof, no evidence, no proven history of such a thing.  It is way out of bounds.

Absolutely bang on! (Bet you never expected that!)

There are plenty of areas where the Federal government has grown too big and has overstepped it's bounds.  There are people whose agenda is to continue that.  This jerk is making those resisting real government encroachments sound like the boy who cried wolf.

The problem is that some throw everything in the same basket. You and I both know the Alex asshole disciples just IV his bollox straight into their gullible tract without cleaning it first.

[coaster]

I thought Id give Alex Jones a listen yesterday after seeing his site linked from a story I had read. It was the first and only time I will listen to him. I'm not even sure what point he was trying to make, but his argument was flimsy and he had no evidence. He went on about people seeing bomb sniffing dogs. Someone should tell Alex that bomb sniffing dogs are a common sight at sporting events. I dont understand why people listen to him but I guess I just dont get his views. makes no sense at all to me. Sounds like the ranting of a paranoid delusional madman tbh.

[McPhallus]

Absolutely bang on! (Bet you never expected that!)

The problem is that some throw everything in the same basket. You and I both know the Alex asshole disciples just IV his bollox straight into their gullible tract without cleaning it first.

You know they have to be disappointed when their nonsensical theories get disproven.

[Yorkshire pud]

You know they have to be disappointed when their nonsensical theories get disproven.

Several years ago I registered on his forum to piece by piece pick apart some bollox I'd heard. Pretty much the entire thread was a lesson in 'How far up your ass can I crawl Alex, you're the best'...The most 'critical' post was from those needing clarification; Which was readily forthcoming from the disciples who were clearly hovering over the douchbag key because the unworthy heretic hadn't 'got it' first time...My lengthy piece never appeared..In fact NOT ONE post was too be found critical of asshole.


So I'd say if they do get disappointed because they find their emperor is bollock naked it won't be via his web site or forum.

[morphiaflow]

You know they have to be disappointed when their nonsensical theories get disproven.

As I'm fond of pointing out, they are never disappointed because in their mind, they are never disproven. Irrational people LIVE for the argument. They LOVE it when you argue with them, because THEY know that THEY are ALWAYS RIGHT. And when they "lose" an argument, it's clearly because "the system" or "the man" or whatever had the deck stacked against them, so they can play the perpetual victim/town crier/whatever. Alex Jones has made a career out of being a fearmonger shill. It's his entire schtick. He'll never admit he's wrong on anything of substance. To do so would unravel his entire persona and the operation he's built with it.

[Yorkshire pud]

As I'm fond of pointing out, they are never disappointed because in their mind, they are never disproven. Irrational people LIVE for the argument. They LOVE it when you argue with them, because THEY know that THEY are ALWAYS RIGHT. And when they "lose" an argument, it's clearly because "the system" or "the man" or whatever had the deck stacked against them, so they can play the perpetual victim/town crier/whatever. Alex Jones has made a career out of being a fearmonger shill. It's his entire schtick. He'll never admit he's wrong on anything of substance. To do so would unravel his entire persona and the operation he's built with it.

^^^ In a nutshell. 

[Yorkshire pud]

Perspective from Mark Mardell.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-22176800

[Sardondi]

Well, shit. I would like to formally request that the facts quit changing. You know what I said about how offensive and scurrilous it was that the Esquire asshole immediately ran to protect Islamic terrorists but in the same breath started throwing all over white hard right uber-patriotic than-thou Tim McVeigh types? Well, never mind. But thanks to President Calm Leadership for publicly speculating that the bombing "is related to Tax Day". Never let a crisis go to waste, eh, Barry? The depths of his craven instincts are bottomless.

But the bombing facts are not adding up to a Muslim terrorist attack. It seems much too low tech. First, unless something has changed because of work-arounds mean to thwart law enforcement prevention and detection efforts, this is absolutely not the signature of al-Queda or any organized Muslim terrorist group. Those groups historically have used suicide bombs, or moderately sophisticated devices which are detonated by cell-phone- or radio-command, made of military grade ignition train and main charge. But this was pressure cookers and ball bearings and black powder? (Was it indeed black powder as a former colleague told me?) The only thing I've heard so far which seems slick is the description of the devices as "disguised like discarded items".

This stuff reminds me of a Ted Kaczynski, except his work was somewhat more sophisticated. White supremacist uber patriot types have gone for much bigger bang. Now I have to wonder if it's true first-time amateurs, like the loosely related Occupy/Anonymous/Anarchy crowd. Or even the radicalized Earth First people. 

Or maybe it's a double twist and AQ is messing with out minds. Anyway, it's all for naught since all this speculation is worthless. But there has to have been massive surveillance camera coverage of the scene. The answer surely must be there and will be revealed in time.

[onan]

I wouldn't be quick to blame any group. And speculation here, other than to spit on some less than favored group... just bias and wanting it to be the guy someone doesn't like. I would hope better of some here... oh well.

[MV/Liberace!]

As a matter of interest; Does anyone think that Asshole's 'false flag' assertion will reduce, enhance or make any difference to how his disciples view him?

i don't think it'll make a bit of difference.  i have a friend who sucks up EVERYTHING alex jones says, questions nothing, and there isn't a THING i can do to convince him of what a fraud this cunt is.  911, the theater shooting, sandy hook... they're ALL false flag operations in this guy's mind and no amount of evidence to the contrary can sway him.  i think he (and people like him) want to believe this shit because it allows them to feel as if they have a leg up on everyone else in the information arena.  they are privy to stuff the rest of us aren't, thus enabling them to feel superior in some jacked up way.

[UnscreenedCaller]

Tonight's guest is Alex Jones.  Predictably, Alex thinks the Boston bombing was perpetrated by the government.  This is from Jone's website:

Although it’s still a bit early to know for certain, this looks more and more like a planned event that was deployed by the Boston bomb squad, called a “drill,” then used as a pretext for the President to call for TSA agents to be on the streets at all future sporting events. And that, in turn, is the run-up to the TSA occupation of America, which has always been the goal of Obama. Remember that back on the campaign trail, he announced he wanted to build a “civilian national security force.”

I would like to have a video camera to record what would happen two seconds after this ignorant gasbag walks up to the Boston bomb squad and accuses them to their faces of staging an attack on innocent people. I think Jones would have to be picked up by a blotter, but my fantasy will never happen because this coward is content to sit behind a mic and incite his gullible followers into seeing conspiracies everywhere, including Grandma's rice pudding. And of course, that other *genius* George Noory will have him on his show because he is just looking for the truth. One day he may just find it, if he can pull his head out of his ass long enough.

It really is depressing. I've been talking to someone since it happened, whether it's my girlfriend,family, neighbors...but here in the silence of the past half-hour, and alone with my thoughts for the first time, I'm bummed and pissed. I'm so thrown off my routines that I didn't drink at all or go for my "crazy person's walk" at 3:30 am. I really don't anticipate sleeping soon.  

Eddie, we went through that here in NY after 9/11. That feeling of numbness isn't going away any time soon, but it will go away eventually. It was a while before 'normal' or whatever that is returned, and even then we'd see trucks routinely pulled over and searched, or I'd flinch if a plane came in over the house too low and it all came back. Just take it one day, even one minute at a time. Boston is a great city, and will always be a great city.

[PB the Deplorable]

... But thanks to President Calm Leadership for publicly speculating that the bombing "is related to Tax Day". Never let a crisis go to waste, eh, Barry? The depths of his craven instincts are bottomless...

Not the highlight of his time in office.

[Eddie Coyle]

 
            What is beginning to annoy me(wrong thread) is the erroneous reporting, wild speculation, ill-conceived leaks...are the types of things that the wig wearing Texas con man thrives upon. It buttresses his conspiracy theory. The New York Post, The Boston Globe, CNN, CBS News etc have all issued reports that have either been proved false or walked back. This confusion is to Alex's benefit

          Don't know how I feel about this: but I went to Faneuil Hall this afternoon(cross town tourist trap) and it seemed like just another Tuesday. Increased police presence there and nearby South Station...but life has gone on. Or more notably...business has gone on.

[eddie dean]

in a post yesterday I brought up the Karma aspect and how appropriate it might be in this situation.
When they find this, or these, scumbags who killed and disfigured almost 180 innocent people in Boston,  I wonder if they might be listeners of Jones himself. Someone who buys into the crazy rantings of a lunatic and just snapped.
I wonder how Mr Jones might react to find that he played a part in driving someone to do this. I wonder if he might reevaluate what he does for a living, or just dismiss them by labeling the crazy person(s) well um, crazy.

This is pure speculation, but I can't help but think that when you perpetuate a constant stream of fear of everything the government does, it has to have a consequence.  And this is the worst kind.

[Pragmier]

Well, shit. I would like to formally request that the facts quit changing.

Yeah, funny how real facts tend not to exhibit that quality. Once again the rush to break a story for rating's sake sweeps away what little journalistic integrity remains.

[FightTheFuture]

But the bombing facts are not adding up to a Muslim terrorist attack. It seems much too low tech. First, unless something has changed because of work-arounds mean to thwart law enforcement prevention and detection efforts, this is absolutely not the signature of al-Queda or any organized Muslim terrorist group.

I still think it`s some franchised Al-Qaeda group or loosely organized home-grown group - possibly sleeper cell, or recent converts (think: Major Hasan) - with ties to ME terror networks. The reason I say that is, traditionally, anti-government radicals tend to focus their attacks against places rather than people. 


The bombs were very clearly anti-personnel devices - packed with ball bearings, nails, etc. - with the sole purpose of inflicting the greatest amount of gore possible. The devices used appear to be standard, garden variety IEDs that are used everyday in the Middle East, with some sort of cell phone or radio activated detonating switch, although that information has not yet been released, so it is pure speculation of course.


Incredibly, it now appears that at least one of the devices could have been contained in a large backpack or bag and left on the outside of a police barrier, near the road...and nobody said a word. [size=78%]http://www1.whdh.com/news/articles/local/boston/10010384080855/exclusive-fbi-investigating-photo-that-shows-bag/[/size]

[Scully]

...  I wonder if they might be listeners of Jones himself. Someone who buys into the crazy rantings of a lunatic and just snapped.
I wonder how Mr Jones might react to find that he played a part in driving someone to do this. I wonder if he might reevaluate what he does for a living, or just dismiss them by labeling the crazy person(s) well um, crazy.

This is pure speculation, but I can't help but think that when you perpetuate a constant stream of fear of everything the government does, it has to have a consequence.  And this is the worst kind.

My thoughts, too.  How much longer can Jones spout his seditious rhetoric before at least one of his worshippers decides to be a hero for the cause?

[morphiaflow]

Jones would hem, haw, deny, and do anything he can to convince that it wasn't REALLY a follower of his, it was a--wait for it--false flag to discredit HIM.

Because it's ALL about him, after all.

[FightTheFuture]

My thoughts, too.  How much longer can Jones spout his seditious rhetoric before at least one of his worshippers decides to be a hero for the cause?

I would venture to guess that provided the first amendment remains intact, there will be no shortage of Alex Jones`. And, frankly, I think that`s an indicator of a healthy; vibrant and free society.






RIP Pat Summerall. The greatest football announcer ever.

[Scully]

My thoughts, too.  How much longer can Jones spout his seditious rhetoric before at least one of his worshippers decides to be a hero for the cause?

I would venture to guess that provided the first amendment remains intact, there will be no shortage of Alex Jones`. And, frankly, I think that`s an indicator of a healthy; vibrant and free society.

If you'll re-read my post, you'll see my question didn't involve how long Alex Jones would be allowed to exercise his First Amendment rights. 

[Yorkshire pud]

If you'll re-read my post, you'll see my question didn't involve how long Alex Jones would be allowed to exercise his First Amendment rights. 

I still stand by option two: Weigh the fat bastard with concrete or a heavy chain and throw him in the sea. With a mic stuffed in his fat mouth-it would be rude not to.

[PB the Deplorable]

The First Amendment doesn't mean anyone can say anything they like whenever they want.  There are certain pressure groups that want us to think that, but it is not correct.

Businesses are limited to what claims they can make in ads, some are even prohibited completely from certain advertising venues (cigarettes on TV for example).  Others are required to make certain statements in their ads, or in the labeling of their products.  Slander and Libel are prohibited.  Companies prohibit employees from revealing trade secrets, customer lists, lots of other propriety info - they instruct employees to say 'no comment' to the media and refer them to the company spokesman.  Certain on-the-job comments will subject the person and the company to harrassment lawsuits.  Verbally threatening people (Assault) is a criminal offense.

Certain jurisdictions such as job places and institutions such as colleges have rules designed to prohibit speech hostile to certain employees or students when it can reasonably be expected to detract from the mission of the enterprise (so-called 'hate speech' laws).  There are laws against so-called 'fighting words'.

The First Amendment was originally intended to ptotect political speech, not commercial or general speech designed to cause mischief with no redeeming value.  Our society has bent over backwards in allowing as much as possible - up to a point, rightly so.

Some of Alex Jones' comments and lies could be considered 'dangerous and false', the equililent of the well know example of falsely shouting 'fire' in a crowded theater.  AJ and other promenent people in office and in the media are usually clear to to be just short of slander and libel in their accusations, just short of 'dangerous and false', but not always.  I wouldn't mind seeing a few of these people hounded through the courts for making the the most vile of comments from time to time.

[Yorkshire pud]

I wouldn't mind seeing a few of these people hounded through the courts for making the the most vile of comments from time to time.

Concrete is far more cost effective. Dropping him out of a heli, even after taking the fuel and pilot salary into account is far cheaper than a court case that will have appeal, and counter appeal and drag on for years generating even more unwarranted news coverage for the fat fuck.

[FightTheFuture]

If you'll re-read my post, you'll see my question didn't involve how long Alex Jones would be allowed to exercise his First Amendment rights. 

You are correct, of course.  I became side-tracked and lost my train of thought.


However, I would add that I don`t find Jones` schtick particularly inflammatory. I find him mildly entertaining, and a bit eccentric; possibly paranoid - much like Jim Marrs, only with a sore throat and lots of cocaine - but otherwise completely harmless.         

[FightTheFuture]

The First Amendment doesn't mean anyone can say anything they like whenever they want.  There are certain pressure groups that want us to think that, but it is not correct.

Businesses are limited to what claims they can make in ads, some are even prohibited completely from certain advertising venues (cigarettes on TV for example).  Others are required to make certain statements in their ads, or in the labeling of their products.  Slander and Libel are prohibited.  Companies prohibit employees from revealing trade secrets, customer lists, lots of other propriety info - they instruct employees to say 'no comment' to the media and refer them to the company spokesman.  Certain on-the-job comments will subject the person and the company to harrassment lawsuits.  Verbally threatening people (Assault) is a criminal offense.

Certain jurisdictions such as job places and institutions such as colleges have rules designed to prohibit speech hostile to certain employees or students when it can reasonably be expected to detract from the mission of the enterprise (so-called 'hate speech' laws).  There are laws against so-called 'fighting words'.

The First Amendment was originally intended to ptotect political speech, not commercial or general speech designed to cause mischief with no redeeming value.  Our society has bent over backwards in allowing as much as possible - up to a point, rightly so.

Some of Alex Jones' comments and lies could be considered 'dangerous and false', the equililent of the well know example of falsely shouting 'fire' in a crowded theater.  AJ and other promenent people in office and in the media are usually clear to to be just short of slander and libel in their accusations, just short of 'dangerous and false', but not always.  I wouldn't mind seeing a few of these people hounded through the courts for making the the most vile of comments from time to time.

Has he ever incited violence? I`m sincerely asking, as I don`t know. I only listen to him when he`s on Coast.


There`s a pretty fair chasm between false fire alarm infractions committed in a crowded theater; hotel and saying the government is corrupt and potentially fascist.


Regarding hate speech,  the USSC has ruled that speech must present a "true threat" in order to be regulated. That`s a bar intentionally set very high.   

[Sleepwalker]

in a post yesterday I brought up the Karma aspect and how appropriate it might be in this situation.
When they find this, or these, scumbags who killed and disfigured almost 180 innocent people in Boston,  I wonder if they might be listeners of Jones himself. Someone who buys into the crazy rantings of a lunatic and just snapped.
I wonder how Mr Jones might react to find that he played a part in driving someone to do this. I wonder if he might reevaluate what he does for a living, or just dismiss them by labeling the crazy person(s) well um, crazy.

This is pure speculation, but I can't help but think that when you perpetuate a constant stream of fear of everything the government does, it has to have a consequence.  And this is the worst kind.

I think you're absolutely right.  A certain percentage of the population are sociopaths and/or psychopaths.  That is a fact.  It stands to reason some of them listen to Alex Jones and Coast to Coast AM.  How smart is it to bombard these people with insane conspiracy theories day after day, night after night?  To tell these people their government is plotting to kill or enslave them?

George calls us "haters" and "losers."  Regardless of his childish name-calling,  I am absolutely confident that none of us are guilty of fanning the flames of paranoia.  Can George Noory and Alex Jones make the same claim?

[Pragmier]

More developments, although they haven't officially linked it to the bombings:

The FBI has confirmed that a letter addressed to President Obama has "preliminarily tested positive" for ricin, a day after lawmakers said another letter sent to the Capitol Hill office of Sen. Roger Wicker tested positive for the same substance. Fox News has learned of at least three suspicious packages or envelopes in two separate Capitol Hill office buildings.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/04/17/envelope-containing-ricin-sent-to-sen-wicker-lawmakers-say/

[Juan]

CNN is reporting that the police have a video of a suspect and that the person has been identified.  Possibly a dark-skinned individual.

I fell out with Alex Jones many years ago when he and his followers surrounded and screamed at Michelle Maulkin during a political event in, I believe, Denver.  Regardless of what you think of Maulkin's politics and opinions, she is a tiny woman and doesn't deserve being terrified by Jones and his idiots.

[West of the Rockies]

CNN is reporting that the police have a video of a suspect and that the person has been identified.  Possibly a dark-skinned individual.

I fell out with Alex Jones many years ago when he and his followers surrounded and screamed at Michelle Maulkin during a political event in, I believe, Denver.  Regardless of what you think of Maulkin's politics and opinions, she is a tiny woman and doesn't deserve being terrified by Jones and his idiots.

I agree, UFO, that such bullying behavior is out-of-bounds (and I am certainly no fan of Malkin).  Count me among those who think Jones' followers won't be put off by his wild speculation; if he is proven wrong (as was said here), his listeners simply won't accept that premise.  Oh, he might lose a few followers here and there, but he'll probably continue to rake it in for a while.  Americans seem to have a big appetite for anger and resentment.

[Eddie Coyle]

 
            I live about a mile south of the Joe Moakley Federal Courthouse. There's a lot of activity in the area right now...but about 90% appears to be media/rubberneckers. There's black SUV's heading through the area, the type Federal marshals use...
           Personally, I think the arraignment may be occurring soon, if not right now. There's supposedly hundreds of onlookers at Moakley(right in the heart of the city) and the cops fear somebody trying to be a Ruby-esque hero. The various contradictory reports about an arrest may be a smokescreen to keep people from showing up at the Courthouse.