ISIS

[jazmunda]

I'll be the first atheist king. Religion will be abolished. Even in the colonies.

Then you have my vote. We vote for Royalty right?

[Yorkshire pud]

Then you have my vote. We vote for Royalty right?

Vote? What is this fanciful gimmick of which you speak? I'll be the supreme citizen. My word will be final. Vote? Oh you Aussies, such a sense of humour. 

[DigitalPigSnuggler]

it's as if we have the same mind

Now, Karl, what did he ever do to you to make you insult him like that?

[SciFiAuthor]

I'll be the first atheist king. Religion will be abolished. Even in the colonies.

You'd be an awful king. Now me, put my ass up in that bitch. I could run a country. "Fun things for SciFiAuthor fund" tax replaces the VAT. "Citizens my royal ass, you fuckers are subjects" will be my motto. "Parliament dissolved" will be my opening of parliament speech year after year. Give me five years and I'll have the colonies back and more, and the empire will be powerful and smoothly run by a king with a superior American accent. I'll let you keep your healthcare or give you beer or something to keep y'all quiet.

[SciFiAuthor]

Or just put Prince Philip on the throne. It would be pretty much the same thing . . .

[StabWound]

Theres some serious wisdom nuggets afloat in this thread.  There is some highly spurious nugs as well, but half the fun of the interwebs is in the sorting. 
  In regards to the topic of the thread, I will simply say that I cant find anything to corroborate OP's claim....so I have nothing to say on the matter....
But regarding the SPIRIT  of the thread, I will say simply this:  In the West, we have this tendency toward 'Reverse Racism'; that is to say, as an act of collective contrition for the whole 'Colonialism' fiasco, we respond to allegations of our inherent atrocity by heaping our possesions, resources, wealth, etc at the feet of the groups who most vocally decry modern history.  This has lead to a very condescending (and poorly veiled) undertone in our  foriegn policy that seems to suggest 'These poor folks have so much to overcome, without our benevolence they will surely perish and it will be our fault for all our grandfathers prejudices'
  This is, in reality, absurd.  Throughout history, ''Whitey'' has met his match in empires worldwide, Our position in geopolitics was hard won through war, not genocide and treachery, and perhaps our strongest rival has traditionally been the Caliphs of the levant. (Seljuk Turks, Saracens, Ottomans among others)   To think that without us they would be still on horseback pulling Bedouin style antics from their tents is an idiotic and arrogant worldview.  To pity them and blame ourselves for their current way of life is lie, they have ALWAYS reverted to Despotic ''Sultan-Knows-Best'' principalities, and the campaigns of late designed to ''help liberate'' them into the democratic brotherhood of nations is going to get us all mutilated, murdered, stripped, raped, and strangled.  We need to have enough respect for this opponent to deliver a coup d' grace from which he shall NEVER recover.  If his lamenting women and children adopt Western Democracy after they've finished Wailing and Gnashing over the whole affair, then let them. 
  Otherwise, lets have the courage and decency to treat them like a respectable foe. 

[Yorkshire pud]

 
  Otherwise, lets have the courage and decency to treat them like a respectable foe.

I pretty much agree with most of that, but in respect to your last sentence; who is it we fight? In the good old days each side had a uniform, a coat of arms, a banner. This foe can simply melt away until the danger has passed. Unless we're prepared to commit genocide and simply destroy with all possible means (Up to and including terrible munitions) everywhere that the enemy is suspected of inhabiting, the chances of making precise and absolute eradicating strikes only on the enemy will be limited and won't touch anywhere near the number involved.

[Quick Karl]

'These poor folks have so much to overcome, without our benevolence they will surely perish and it will be our fault for all our grandfathers prejudices'

  This is, in reality, absurd.  Throughout history, ''Whitey'' has met his match in empires worldwide, Our position in geopolitics was hard won through war, not genocide and treachery, and perhaps our strongest rival has traditionally been the Caliphs of the levant. (Seljuk Turks, Saracens, Ottomans among others)   To think that without us they would be still on horseback pulling Bedouin style antics from their tents is an idiotic and arrogant worldview.  To pity them and blame ourselves for their current way of life is lie, they have ALWAYS reverted to Despotic ''Sultan-Knows-Best'' principalities, and the campaigns of late designed to ''help liberate'' them into the democratic brotherhood of nations is going to get us all mutilated, murdered, stripped, raped, and strangled.  We need to have enough respect for this opponent to deliver a coup d' grace from which he shall NEVER recover.  If his lamenting women and children adopt Western Democracy after they've finished Wailing and Gnashing over the whole affair, then let them.

  Otherwise, lets have the courage and decency to treat them like a respectable foe.

This is simply awesome! It's that same thing the left does to the black community - treats them as if they are primitives that are incapable of doing or being responsible for themselves without the benevolence of the left  - and look where that's gotten the black community in America over the last 50-years. Then they blame the failure on Republicans, whom they have excluded from participating in the management of any of the social programs...

It is its own kind of sickening racism that disgusts me.

[StabWound]

I pretty much agree with most of that, but in respect to your last sentence; who is it we fight? In the good old days each side had a uniform, a coat of arms, a banner.

A well reasoned and articulate post.  You bring up many valid points, so I feel it would be courteous to respond directly.
Announce and leaflet the area with a clear message that all non combatants/surrendering forces are to proceed unarmed to the designated Refugee area in  5days...4...3...etc, with ample warning.  Include instructions one how to surrender if you dont want to get shot profusely.  Then, at the designated moment, NOT A MOMENT BEFORE OR AFTER......it begins.

Send Seal Team 6 and friends to downtown Fallujah, then open fire indiscriminately.  Anyone who returns fire, dies.  Anyone who approaches an American combatant, even with baked goods or little patriotic flags, dies.  If you reach into your pocket, even to get a cell phone or overripe banan, you die. ANYONE WHO FAILS TO FOLLOW THE SURRENDER PROTOCOL DIES.  Offer a square chainlink paddock for anyone who wishes to yield, allowing NGO's free rein to do their 'humanitarian crisis' thing.  If you want in the 'Refugee Zone/I-dont-want-to-die area, you are expected to have utterly submitted, and you are frisked and demanded to cooperate with the occupying force utterly upon fear of being sent back out into the streets where ALL NON ALLIED FORCES are fair game. 
  After the area is pacified, Repeat. 

I am aware of how starkly brutal it is.  But war is not a glorious thing, this aint Europe circa 1804 were a young noble 'earns' medals  that earn him pretty smiles and accolades fromfops and dandies alike at the next 'Salon' or Soiree. I believe it was Mr Maury Povich who said:  Haters gonna hate, Ya'll dont know me.''  They always have and likely will continue to do so for the foreseeable future.  CNN, NBC, Wall ST Journal....they will print OP ED's comparing the C- in- Chief to Hitler and Stalin.  Part of this mess stems from our tendency to reward the squeakiest, not most deserving, 'wheels' all of the proverbial 'grease', so to speak.
Sometimes, a man must do what is truly right, even if the cost is terrible, even if history recalls him as pariah instead of the hero only a few knew him to truly be.   

[Quick Karl]

Announce and leaflet the area with a clear message that all non combatants/surrendering forces are to proceed unarmed to the designated Refugee area in  5days...4...3...etc, with ample warning.  Include instructions one how to surrender if you dont want to get shot profusely.  Then, at the designated moment, NOT A MOMENT BEFORE OR AFTER......it begins.

Send Seal Team 6 and friends to downtown Fallujah, then open fire indiscriminately.  Anyone who returns fire, dies.  Anyone who approaches an American combatant, even with baked goods or little patriotic flags, dies.  If you reach into your pocket, even to get a cell phone or overripe banan, you die. ANYONE WHO FAILS TO FOLLOW THE SURRENDER PROTOCOL DIES.  Offer a square chainlink paddock for anyone who wishes to yield, allowing NGO's free rein to do their 'humanitarian crisis' thing.  If you want in the 'Refugee Zone/I-dont-want-to-die area, you are expected to have utterly submitted, and you are frisked and demanded to cooperate with the occupying force utterly upon fear of being sent back out into the streets where ALL NON ALLIED FORCES are fair game. 

  After the area is pacified, Repeat. 

I am aware of how starkly brutal it is.  But war is not a glorious thing, this aint Europe circa 1804 were a young noble 'earns' his medals for discussion and accolades from polite society types.  Haters gonna hate.  They always have.  CNN, NBC, Wall ST Journal....they will print OP ED's comparing the C- in- Chief to Hitler and Stalin.  Part of this mess stems from our tendency to reward the squeakiest, not most deserving, 'wheels' all of the proverbial 'grease', so to speak.

Sometimes, a man must do what is truly right, even if the cost is terrible, even if history recalls him as pariah instead of the hero only a few knew him to truly be.

You are fucking cool.

[StabWound]

I am not a hero.  Just some guy with a computer.

[Quick Karl]

I am not a hero.  Just some guy with a computer.

I know, but your kind of thinking is the only kind of thinking that will solve the Middle East problem.

What we need are people that can get things done, not people that sit around thinking up 5,000-reasons for not doing anything because it might offend someone.

[Yorkshire pud]

A well reasoned and articulate post.  You bring up many valid points, so I feel it would be courteous to respond directly.
Announce and leaflet the area with a clear message that all non combatants/surrendering forces are to proceed unarmed to the designated Refugee area in  5days...4...3...etc, with ample warning.  Include instructions one how to surrender if you dont want to get shot profusely.  Then, at the designated moment, NOT A MOMENT BEFORE OR AFTER......it begins.

Send Seal Team 6 and friends to downtown Fallujah, then open fire indiscriminately.  Anyone who returns fire, dies.  Anyone who approaches an American combatant, even with baked goods or little patriotic flags, dies.  If you reach into your pocket, even to get a cell phone or overripe banan, you die. ANYONE WHO FAILS TO FOLLOW THE SURRENDER PROTOCOL DIES.  Offer a square chainlink paddock for anyone who wishes to yield, allowing NGO's free rein to do their 'humanitarian crisis' thing.  If you want in the 'Refugee Zone/I-dont-want-to-die area, you are expected to have utterly submitted, and you are frisked and demanded to cooperate with the occupying force utterly upon fear of being sent back out into the streets where ALL NON ALLIED FORCES are fair game. 
  After the area is pacified, Repeat. 

I am aware of how starkly brutal it is.  But war is not a glorious thing, this aint Europe circa 1804 were a young noble 'earns' medals  that earn him pretty smiles and accolades fromfops and dandies alike at the next 'Salon' or Soiree. I believe it was Mr Maury Povich who said:  Haters gonna hate, Ya'll dont know me.''  They always have and likely will continue to do so for the foreseeable future.  CNN, NBC, Wall ST Journal....they will print OP ED's comparing the C- in- Chief to Hitler and Stalin.  Part of this mess stems from our tendency to reward the squeakiest, not most deserving, 'wheels' all of the proverbial 'grease', so to speak.
Sometimes, a man must do what is truly right, even if the cost is terrible, even if history recalls him as pariah instead of the hero only a few knew him to truly be.

Fair enough; what about hostages that the enemy has taken? Those who want to surrender but can't? Sending any SF in will only be as effective as whatever remit they're given..killing anything that moves isn't how they're trained. SF are trained to be precise, be it the Navy Seals, SAS, SBS, or Spetsnaz (Spetsnaz have a more brutal reputation). Firing indiscriminately will find themselves wasting ammunition and likely tried for murder (Yep, I'm afraid we have the anomaly where we have to obey the rules irrespective to what the other side does). The alternative is we tear up the Geneva Convention for everyone, and we then find we're as bad as the enemy, and we can't take any high ground again, and we're just as savage as the savages we're fighting.

I'm all for the leaflet drops and the time limits, but it would need to be a multi national approach with everyone on the 'good' side knowing exactly what the game was, because any straying from it, will end with WW3.

[Yorkshire pud]

I know, but your kind of thinking is the only kind of thinking that will solve the Middle East problem.

What we need are people that can get things done, not people that sit around thinking up 5,000-reasons for not doing anything because it might offend someone.

It isn't about offending someone; it's about doing the least bad thing. War is terrible, doing the wrong thing will simply make that happen. Are you volunteering to join one?

[Quick Karl]

It isn't about offending someone; it's about doing the least bad thing. War is terrible, doing the wrong thing will simply make that happen. Are you volunteering to join one?

I already did my time, son, now you go do yours.

[SciFiAuthor]

This is simply awesome! It's that same thing the left does to the black community - treats them as if they are primitives that are incapable of doing or being responsible for themselves without the benevolence of the left  - and look where that's gotten the black community in America over the last 50-years. Then they blame the failure on Republicans, whom they have excluded from participating in the management of any of the social programs...

It is its own kind of sickening racism that disgusts me.

Total truth. And it's all to get the Dem politicians reelected. No bigger, more distasteful scam has ever been pulled on civilization.

[SciFiAuthor]

Incidentally, I think we should all put huge funding right now into any pre-existent military programs to miniaturize drones and put them on the battlefield. Now is the time to fast track that stuff. We're already seeing people delivering pizzas and Amazon packages with the things, so let's put guns on them so the soldiers are located in a Denver office building remotely killing jihadists instead of on the battlefield as soon as we possibly can.

[WOTR]

... Include instructions one how to surrender if you dont want to get shot profusely.  Then, at the designated moment, NOT A MOMENT BEFORE OR AFTER......it begins.

Send Seal Team 6 and friends to downtown Fallujah, then open fire indiscriminately.  Anyone who returns fire, dies.  Anyone who approaches an American combatant, even with baked goods or little patriotic flags, dies.  If you reach into your pocket, even to get a cell phone or overripe banan, you die. ANYONE WHO FAILS TO FOLLOW THE SURRENDER PROTOCOL DIES.

Fine idea... How are you going to deal with the young men who carry out your orders and shoot the 10 year old approaching them and 200 other likely unarmed citizens?  You think there are mental health problems and PTSD now...

[DigitalPigSnuggler]

You are fucking cool.

I'd be careful if I were you buddie.  I think Karl is getting ready to pull the stiff one-eye on you.  He tried to get me to pinch his ass yesterday -- true story.

[DigitalPigSnuggler]

I already did my time

You were in prison?  Was the sex as good there as you've been getting on the outside?

[Rudolf Zlabinger]

http://www.businessinsider.com/whats-needed-to-eliminate-isis-2014-8

"If destroying ISIL becomes the near-term policy goal—which seems the likely outcome of saying you are going to 'roll back' the group—then 10,000-15,000 troops vastly understates the true commitment, which will actually require years, direct military action on both sides of the Iraq/Syria border, tens (if not hundreds) of billions of dollars, and many more than 15,000 troops...ISIL is an inherently resilient organization—look how far they have come since getting 'rolled back' during the Surge in 2007 when 150,000 American troops were occupying the country."

And this puts us squarely inside the civil war in Syria, and means another perpetual US military presence for decades to come.  We can afford that...right?

I have an idea: let's use nukes.

After reading "Everyone Who Wants To Destroy ISIS Needs To Know One Hard Truth" I miss one important thing: Does US really feel the only nation to carry the burden of the urgent necessary and final extinction of ISIS? The whole world of nations have to stand up and fight, that includes even China, Iran and all people that have to loose their freedom under theocracy! Lets stand together and chase this crowd of murderers to the devil from where they came!

UNO has the first time in history a true assignment to save the world otherwise descending to a medieval state for some of 100 years, and the first real chance to show that they really exist and work as designed!  I understand your demand for nuces, even I would like to do that, but only strictly ignoring the tremendous consequences, I refuse even to imagine. 

[paladin1991]

, and we're just as savage as the savages we're fighting.

I'm all for the leaflet drops and the time limits, but it would need to be a multi national approach with everyone on the 'good' side knowing exactly what the game was, because any straying from it, will end with WW3.

In order to fight evil, good men must embrace the darkness and take in some of the same evil they are wishing to defeat.  The cost ?  A piece of your soul every time you go downrange.

It's a case of price vs cost.  Price is something that is agreed on.  Cost, is something that goes on and on and on.  We haven't yet agreed on what price we are willing to pay for peace, so the cost currently, goes on and on.

WW3?  It's already begun, we just haven't distributed the memo.  Multi national?  Sure.  Whenever everybody wants to join in.  But action needs to be taken now.  Whenever you silly Brits and the rest of the friggin world are ready, join in.  As for me, I say let's take it to the Jews.  "Hey Izzie, Ariel, Shlomo....want to end this shit once and for all?  Let's go."

SFA called it, this ISIS horror show is the new NAZI threat.  Whenever evil rises to consume the ppl it always has to have a name.  Stobor, Nazi's, the IRS....call it what you will.  It's just fucking evil and it needs to be put down.  In the past, this is where the paladin would ride.  Now, I want it fucking over before my son has to take my place in that very thin line that attempts to hold back the night before it overtakes civilization.  I don't want him to know what I know. 

I'm still getting up in the middle of the night to check the perimeter.  And my last perimeter is 10,000 miles away and nearly a decade ago.  Fuck.  Not my son.  Not this time.  Bring out the fucking nukes if necessary.  I sold my soul a long time ago, piece by piece. 

I'll pull the trigger.   One more time. 

[PB the Deplorable]

These idiots kill the villagers that are in their path and kidnap the women.  They execute captured troops.  Now they are demanding ransom and for Obama to release more of the 'worst of the worst' we hold under the threat of beheading westerners they've captured as hostages.

I say we give them 24 hours to release the kidnaped women and hostages, and stop executing POWs immediately.  One chance.  We let them know if they don't comply, that we won't be taking any prisoners either.  And then catch and kill a few dozen of them so they know we aren't kidding.

And let Hamas know that we know they are the Palestinian branch of ISIS.

[FightTheFuture]

A couple of quotes from one of my favorite historic military Generals:

                          "War is cruelty. There is no use trying to reform it. The crueler it is, the sooner it will be over."




AND

"Every attempt to make war easy and safe will result in humiliation and disaster."



William Tecumseh Sherman

[VtaGeezer]

Stobor, Nazi's, the IRS....call it what you will. 

The IRS!!  In that group? So much for your credibility.

[bateman]

http://youtu.be/HcJYpnEElwA

These lunatics are producing commercials now.

[paladin1991]

http://youtu.be/HcJYpnEElwA

These lunatics are producing commercials now.

At the end where they are stacked up and advancing.  Shoot the camera man first.  That camera is the most dangerous weapon those 4 were packing.

[paladin1991]

The IRS!!  In that group? So much for your credibility.

Waaaaaaaait aminute.  Credibility?  On the internet?  Fuuuuuuuck me to tears.

[albrecht]

At the end where they are stacked up and advancing.  Shoot the camera man first.  That camera is the most dangerous weapon those 4 were packing.

Can't we use the camera-man as the shooter? Like AQ did for the Northern Alliance guy?

[jazmunda]

http://youtu.be/HcJYpnEElwA

These lunatics are producing commercials now.

Holy shit they've got nunchucks!!!