ISIS

[NowhereInTime]

Yeah we know, you didn't want the war.  Exactly one person in the entire House and Senate voted against giving Bush II the power to go to war, but now you claim it was all Bush.

Yes.  It was also Hillary and John Kerry.  It's why I supported Howard Dean and Barack Obama.  It's why Obama beat Hillary in a hard fought primary.

You are the same people who were insisting we unilaterally disarm in the face of Soviet aggression, and abandon our allies that were facing Soviet and Cuban aggression before they finally collapsed.

This is what I mean.  You make shit up just to discredit your opponents.  It's why I despise Ronald Reagan. Your master has taught you well...

Not exactly the voices of prudence or reason.  If we lived in Medieval times, you'd be the ones wanting to open the gates and surrender to the army sieging our city.

Since you are the only one living in Medieval times, I defer to your expertise.
Though I beseech you, sir, it's "besiege" you.

You'd be the ones saying Hitler isn't so bad, and even if he is it's not our problem.

Hitler's your chap, so, again I defer to your expertise.

As President, Obama is required to address what is on his plate, so to speak.  Whether he wants to or not.

Why? George H.W. Bush didn't eat his Brussels Sprouts

He was responsible for leaving a the best situation possible when getting us out of Iraq.

No, have to disagree.  He was responsible for ending a war most of the nation, image conscious chicken hawks in Congress aside, did not want.  He did that.

All he had to do was have a Status of Forces Agreement in place.

Says who?

He sent Joe Biden to get one.  Joe Biden.

Gave Joe a chance to show his chops and he couldn't deliver.  Joe will never be President, so why worry?

But he could have sent anyone, because he didn't want to reach an agreement on Iraq's security.  He just wanted to pull troops out and claim victory, for political purposes.  What's happening there now is on him.  The rise of ISIS is his legacy there.

1) He just wanted to pull troops out.  Period.  As to 'political purposes'?  It was a campaign promise he kept.  Man, you just refuse to understand this point.
2) Don't even begin to stick ISIS on Obama.  He is not the King of the Middle East, nor even the President of the Middle East, or Syria, or Iraq. 

Blame Assad, Maliki, and Islamic conservatives who lust for power so they can tell people how they ought to live your lives.  Like your side does.

You, Useless Karl, Albrecht, the General; you've all been insinuating the world is falling apart and 'Bam's to blame, yet you don't produce any fact based evidence to substantiate any of this.
I'm sorry, just saying it doesn't make it true.

[albrecht]

9 friendly Muslims with suspected ISIL/ISIS/IS links arrested in Austria:
http://tinyurl.com/kt6mbhy

There are more Britons fighting with or supporting radical Muslim groups than serving in the British military (once again, Enoch was right):
http://www.newsweek.com/twice-many-british-muslims-fighting-isis-armed-forces-265865

And who knows how many might be in the USA? Or coming over considering our wide open-border and our suicidal legal refugee and immigration policy.

What does Obama likely say after hearing about the latest atrocities committed by IS (flashing his white teeth like some stereotypical minstrel show)?
"I beheading out to play more golf!"

[NowhereInTime]

What does Obama likely say after hearing about the latest atrocities committed by IS (flashing his white teeth like some stereotypical minstrel show)?
"I beheading out to play more golf!"

But don't DARE call you racist.

Yeah, the QK "kidding on the square stuff" does suck. Like QK does.

Still, dude, pretty racist stuff.

[VtaGeezer]

Every time someone in authority or influence uses "ISIS" or "ISIL", what young Muslim men around the world hear is that the historic Islamic caliphate is being rebuilt by devoted young Muslims warriors. The zealot-murderers' image gets a boost and their recruitment goes up.  The currently used "ISIS/ISIL" reference is akin to officially and universally referring to the invading Nazis as "The Master Race".  They chose their name for the same reason the Nazis chose "reich".  Imagery. Emotion.

I wish Obama would issue an order banning any official reference to an "Islamic State" by name or acronym in reference to the army of psychopaths spreading through Iraq.  He should enlist the media to do the same.   Don't even use word "Islamic" or "Caliphate" in any context associated with them.Call them what they are, an apocalyptic death cult recruited by and from psychopaths.  Fight fire with fire.  Get a successful Arab-oriented ad firm to come up with a new moniker for this bunch of butchers that won't elicit admiration or respect among young Muslims by its mere mention in the world media. Don't even use word "Islamic" or "Caliphate" in any context associated with them. 

Use military force against them directly, but also use the best resources to defeat them in the war for influence in the Arab street. For crissake, stop using one of the most potent themes in Muslim culture to name them. Cut off their motivational oxygen.

[albrecht]

But don't DARE call you racist.

Yeah, the QK "kidding on the square stuff" does suck. Like QK does.

Still, dude, pretty racist stuff.

you can call me whatever you want. I just use facts as insults are usually a last resort when the person has no logical argument, facts, or even the ability to spin the argument. It is childish and, frankly, boring. Just back and forth name calling, usually homosexual inspired insults, is boring.

Here is your man. Tell me he isn't broadly smiling, flashing those pearly whites and enjoying, yet another, game of golf. One would think learning of an American cruelly beheaded he would at least give a somewhat somber look as he golfs. Maybe tone down the Al Jolson grin a bit out of respect. At least for a day?

[NowhereInTime]

Damn, these friggin' political threads turn to mud slinging fast!

QK shared a quote and clearly believes a strong offensive would be a solid approach to a troubling situation (ISIS).  At once the insults start flying.  Paperboy does not endorse such a strong response to the conflict and made no mention of Obama, and suddenly there are calls of racism.  (If I am going to try to be utterly honest, I will say that I can see how some of the things the conservative posters here say on the political threads could be construed as racist and homophobic... I see some homophobic barbs tossed by some on the left, too.)

Look, I know that damn near every regular political poster tosses feces here (I am sure I have said some insulting things), but what's the point of immediately slinging shit at the start of a brand new thread?  If you guys all just enjoy trashing each other, then have at it.  But if you hope to lure a fence sitter over to your side, maybe focus on something besides name-calling.  Yes, yes, yes, QK flings the shit, too.  My point is not that just one camp does it (conservative and liberal), but I think a lot of posters on this forum avoid the political threads because of the constant poo flinging.

Just a thought....

West:

1) Good to see you back!  Missed you!

2) Quick Karl is anathema.  I've seen sewage for which I have more respect.  His every post is degrading and officious.  Not a more vile and contemptible slug has been squished on God's green earth. Plus he has obvious character deficiencies that come screaming out of most of his posts that lead one to believe he should be incarcerated.

3) No, one camp does not have a monopoly on the snark, but does it have to be in every frigging post?!?  I mean, when a post's first line is "Liberalism is a mental disorder", why should I lend any credence to the following point?

Anyway, glad you're back.

[DigitalPigSnuggler]

Every time someone in authority or influence uses "ISIS" or "ISIL", what young Muslim men around the world hear is that the historic Islamic caliphate is being rebuilt by devoted young Muslims warriors. The zealot-murderers' image gets a boost and their recruitment goes up.  The currently used "ISIS/ISIL" reference is akin to officially and universally referring to the invading Nazis as "The Master Race".  They chose their name for the same reason the Nazis chose "reich".  Imagery. Emotion.

I wish Obama would issue an order banning any official reference to an "Islamic State" by name or acronym in reference to the army of psychopaths spreading through Iraq.  He should enlist the media to do the same.   Don't even use word "Islamic" or "Caliphate" in any context associated with them.Call them what they are, an apocalyptic death cult recruited by and from psychopaths.  Fight fire with fire.  Get a successful Arab-oriented ad firm to come up with a new moniker for this bunch of butchers that won't elicit admiration or respect among young Muslims by its mere mention in the world media. Don't even use word "Islamic" or "Caliphate" in any context associated with them. 

Use military force against them directly, but also use the best resources to defeat them in the war for influence in the Arab street. For crissake, stop using one of the most potent themes in Muslim culture to name them. Cut off their motivational oxygen.

It's important that the President communicate clearly, in particular because his comments are translated into other languages and forwarded around the world.  If Obama was to start using some other name for ISIS, people in other countries might not understand that he is talking about ISIS.  Or a worse, they might misinterpret that name to mean another, different group, and that his criticism is directed towards that group.

I understand where you are coming from, but the use of any alternative term would require continuously explaining why it is being used, which puts the focus on the tactic, and that just re-enforces what is trying to be combated. 

[FightTheFuture]

The most effective approach would be for Obama to stand before the world body (UN) and implore them to join the U.S. is slaughtering the pigs of ISIL. And I mean use that exact language. Ditch the cool, casual Obama, and adopt the FREAKING PISSED AND BLOOD THIRSTY, DETERMINED Obama. That is what these subhuman vermin understand.

Of course, Obama would have to follow the bold rhetoric with bold action. I`m talking about unleashing hell upon these bastards. Buttress the Northern Kurds, strike the command and control in Syria, and then drop the Screaming Eagles ( ) in a position to crush them in a classic hammer and anvil tactic. Butcher these thugs like the pigs they are, and be sure to televise every moment of the action for any morons contemplating joining up.

[VtaGeezer]

It's important that the President communicate clearly, in particular because his comments are translated into other languages and forwarded around the world.

This is precisely why they must not be allowed to define themselves semantically.  The Muslim world is now routinely about hearing a bunch of butchers as "the Islamic State" by POTUS, other leaders and the media. It's become a self-fulfilling description. They've been elevated to the level of at least a quasi-nation simply deft use of semantics.  If authorities and media adopt a culturally negative or even neutral term, few will be confused; those whom you're concerned about will know whose being spoken of it as long as the usage is consistent and clear.

The use of acronyms is a blight on clear and precise communication anyway.  It began, often at ridiculous levels, with the military and has slopped over into common usage. Americans have adopted it as speech shorthand, but the translation of abbreviations to others as words is not consistent.  Arabic doesn't even have an "i" character. 

[FightTheFuture]

Damn, these friggin' political threads turn to mud slinging fast!

QK shared a quote and clearly believes a strong offensive would be a solid approach to a troubling situation (ISIS).  At once the insults start flying.  Paperboy does not endorse such a strong response to the conflict and made no mention of Obama, and suddenly there are calls of racism.  (If I am going to try to be utterly honest, I will say that I can see how some of the things the conservative posters here say on the political threads could be construed as racist and homophobic... I see some homophobic barbs tossed by some on the left, too.)

Look, I know that damn near every regular political poster tosses feces here (I am sure I have said some insulting things), but what's the point of immediately slinging shit at the start of a brand new thread?  If you guys all just enjoy trashing each other, then have at it.  But if you hope to lure a fence sitter over to your side, maybe focus on something besides name-calling.  Yes, yes, yes, QK flings the shit, too.  My point is not that just one camp does it (conservative and liberal), but I think a lot of posters on this forum avoid the political threads because of the constant poo flinging.

Just a thought....

One of my favorite commies. I don`t care what NIT says about ya, Westie.....you`re ok in my book.

[Quick Karl]

One of my favorite commies. I don`t care what NIT says about ya, Westie.....you`re ok in my book.

West of the Rockies is one of the few people on Bellgab that can hold a different political and/or philosophical opinion and not resorts to juvenile tactics when someone challenges said belief...

Too bad there aren't more folks like West of the Rockies here, and too bad a few of the "intellectual giants" on the communist side of the debates are quick to critique an opponent when he uses the same tactics as his friends, but sits there in silence when his friends fling shit - you know who you are Onan...

Signed, the bad guy that is bad for feeding morons their own medicine...

[DigitalPigSnuggler]

I`m talking about unleashing hell upon these bastards.

Shock and awe?  Well, why not.  It worked so well the last time around.

[VtaGeezer]

Of course, Obama would have to follow the bold rhetoric with bold action....

I suspect we're close to seeing significant US airstrikes in Syria. Admission of the Syrian raid was the door opening. Its discouraging to see how this mess is being badly handled for the sake of duct-taping together the miserable excuse for nation that Iraq is.  The Baghdad regime is an albatross around our neck put there with the same John Wayne bullshit you're spouting.  You want to add Syria and Jordan to the necklace? 

[Camazotz Automat]

EC

DPS is right.

Using their name works in our favor the other direction, too. If a devastating maneuver is performed against ISIS, all can be informed that the action was achieved against a specific target.

In the early 80s, I remember some media outlets avoiding giving too much attention to Mark David Chapman by name due to the possibility of influencing other borderline nuts to catch yet more children in the goddamned rye and/or have their names immortalized.

That was excellent discretion in that situation, though much harder to achieve today, given communication speeds/outlets.

There is no doubt that various "journalists" get a rush when saying "ISIS."  You can hear it in their voices and it's fucking annoying. Similar to hurricane reporting by a given name.

When I hear the word, however, I think of the picture below, so the caliphate might as well be called Captain Marvel:

[DigitalPigSnuggler]

This is precisely why they must not be allowed to define themselves semantically. 

They're going to call themselves whatever they want and people over there will continue to refer to them as IS or whatever.  That will remain true even if they're driven underground like Al Qaida.  We just look petty and ineffective by spending any time trying to do this.  Any image they have created will be degraded only when they're defeated and scattered, not by some "freedom fries" tactic.

[Tarbaby]

Damn, these friggin' political threads turn to mud slinging fast!

QK shared a quote and clearly believes a strong offensive would be a solid approach to a troubling situation (ISIS).  At once the insults start flying.  Paperboy does not endorse such a strong response to the conflict and made no mention of Obama, and suddenly there are calls of racism.  (If I am going to try to be utterly honest, I will say that I can see how some of the things the conservative posters here say on the political threads could be construed as racist and homophobic... I see some homophobic barbs tossed by some on the left, too.)

Look, I know that damn near every regular political poster tosses feces here (I am sure I have said some insulting things), but what's the point of immediately slinging shit at the start of a brand new thread?  If you guys all just enjoy trashing each other, then have at it.  But if you hope to lure a fence sitter over to your side, maybe focus on something besides name-calling.  Yes, yes, yes, QK flings the shit, too.  My point is not that just one camp does it (conservative and liberal), but I think a lot of posters on this forum avoid the political threads because of the constant poo flinging.

Just a thought....

You're a breath of fresh air.

[VtaGeezer]

They're going to call themselves whatever they want and people over there will continue to refer to them as IS or whatever.  That will remain true even if they're driven underground like Al Qaida.  We just look petty and ineffective by spending any time trying to do this.  Any image they have created will be degraded only when they're defeated and scattered, not by some "freedom fries" tactic.

You're failing to see the affect of their de facto recognition as an Islamic State by the West on Third World Muslims.  As with AQ, who beheaded with alacrity, they're cheering at seeing the West and US tangled up its shoelaces.  This is no trivial "freedom fries" nonsense; its using semantics instead of letting the semantics go against us...again.

[Robert Ghostwolf's Ghost]

EC

When I hear the word, however, I think of the picture below, so the caliphate might as well be called Captain Marvel:

Captain Marvel looks like he could be related to Mitchell.

[FightTheFuture]

I suspect we're close to seeing significant US airstrikes in Syria. Admission of the Syrian raid was the door opening. Its discouraging to see how this mess is being badly handled for the sake of duct-taping together the miserable excuse for nation that Iraq is.  The Baghdad regime is an albatross around our neck put there with the same John Wayne bullshit you're spouting.  You want to add Syria and Jordan to the necklace?

Frankly, I don`t know what you`re talking about and I strongly suspect you don`t either.

The fact is, ISIL`s command and control infrastructure is largely operated out of Syria. If you want to destroy them, you must - must - first pulverize them in Syria. Then you can begin chopping up the body in Iraq, which will be relatively straight forward.

And that`s not "John Wayne bullshit", sir, that`s sound military advice from a person who has been there and done that.

[DigitalPigSnuggler]

QK shared a quote and clearly believes a strong offensive would be a solid approach to a troubling situation (ISIS).  At once the insults start flying. 

There's a history there that you're not factoring in.  Pig-Anus criticizes everything Obama does; he won't acknowledge that anything Obama does is right and lies constantly and unabashedly to maintain that criticism. 

He calls the author's opinions "rational and valid."  Among those opinions are favorable comments about Obama.  In fact, the author heaps praise on Obama for his handling of the situation thus far, which is completely at odds with Pig-Anus' feelings on the matter.

So in summary, P-A is praising commentary when it aligns with his own opinion, while condemning or ignoring it when it does not.  I don't know how this is particularly insightful or informative.  It is completely consistent with P-A's fetish for hypocrisy, though, which is what triggered the reaction.

[Quick Karl]

There's a history there that you're not factoring in.  Pig-Anus criticizes everything Obama does; he won't acknowledge that anything Obama does is right and lies constantly and unabashedly to maintain that criticism. 

He calls the author's opinions "rational and valid."  Among those opinions are favorable comments about Obama.  In fact, the author heaps praise on Obama for his handling of the situation thus far, which is completely at odds with Pig-Anus' feelings on the matter.

So in summary, P-A is praising commentary when it aligns with his own opinion, while condemning or ignoring it when it does not.  I don't know how this is particularly insightful or informative.  It is completely consistent with P-A's fetish for hypocrisy, though, which is what triggered the reaction.

nitwit, I am proud that I am your Big Bad Wolf, but you are grasping at straws...

grasping at straws also clutching at straws
1. trying to find some way to succeed when nothing you choose is likely to work. Example: Jerry, grasping at straws, searched the backup tapes from last week, looking for the missing files.
2. trying to find reasons to feel hopeful about a bad situation. Example: She thinks he might still be interested because he calls her now and then but I think she's clutching at straws.

[DigitalPigSnuggler]

You're failing to see the affect of their de facto recognition as an Islamic State by the West on Third World Muslims. 

You've assumed something as the truth and are arguing for a course of action based on that assumption.  I'm questioning the assumption.  You clearly don't want to do that, which leaves us with little to discuss.

As with AQ, who beheaded with alacrity,

Yeah, about that.  The beheadings were a public relations fuckup for AQ because it goes against the tenants of Islam.  That's why there was a batch of them, and then they stopped. 

Point?  Actions matter more than words.  At least to most people.

[DigitalPigSnuggler]

nitwit, I am proud that I am your Big Bad Wolf,

It pleases me to see that I'm keeping you occupied.  Not for your sake, but for the sake of the pre-pubescent boys in your neighborhood.

[Robert Ghostwolf's Ghost]

Yeah, about that.  The beheadings were a public relations fuckup for AQ because it goes against the tenants of Islam.  That's why there was a batch of them, and then they stopped. 

Most people would be pissed off if their landlords started beheading people... 

[Camazotz Automat]

SA

Captain Marvel looks like he could be related to Mitchell.

If the SOL will not come to Mitchell, then Mitchell must go to the SOL.

Trust in MST3K, but tie up your Camelsocks Almanac.

Joe Don Baker is the Cali - Fat.

[Rudolf Zlabinger]

(This post is out of topic)

9 friendly Muslims with suspected ISIL/ISIS/IS links arrested in Austria:

There are 8, one was 17 years, being below the age limit. This 8 will loose their asylum rights and are removed to Moscow ASAP, that's ok. And other Austrians return from Syria as members of ISIS without being immediately detained as combatants of foreign fighting forces (International right)! There is no straight line until now in handling such situations.

But these people around the whole world are the direct subservients of Caliph Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi and his real global power, to perform his crimes everywhere and follow his big target, the worldwide theocracy, not the terror trainband (intentionally medieval expressed) of ISIS in middle east alone!

This is the real threat we all are faced with, that is the central message I try to communicate to you from beginning as a warning and (I hope not) as a horrible prophecy.

Ceterum censeo Baghdadi esse delendum! (free by Cato), and that quickly and ASAP. 

[NowhereInTime]

Maybe tone down the Al Jolson grin a bit out of respect. At least for a day?

You just can't help yourself, can you?

What's "boring" is listening to you and others deny your true feelings then send us a code like the above quote.
Man up for once.

[PB the Deplorable]

... This is what I mean.  You make shit up just to discredit your opponents.  It's why I despise Ronald Reagan. Your master has taught you well...

You are unaware of all those anti-nuclear protests, marches, demonstrations in the 1980s - the decade before the USSR collapsed?  All those op-ed pieces?  The more reactionary members of Congress making speeches and trying to attach amendments to legislation (like my own Congressman at the time, Ron 'Red' Dellums)?  Insisting Reagan give in to Gorby and his predecessors to their lopsided proposals?  Mockingly calling our missile defense system 'Star Wars'?

You are unaware of all that?  You think it's all a well crafted lie?


I lived in Berkeley CA at the time.  I personally saw the morons standing on the Cal Berkeley campus lawn along Oxford Street holding up their signs for passing cars to see, demanding that we 'Disarm', and 'No Nukes'.  They were so motivated they gave up their weekends to stand out there.

There were demonstrations all the time in Oakland, and especially in San Francisco, on all sorts of issues - unilateral disarmament and anti-nuclear weapons were a continually recurring highlighted theme. 

I never did quite understand to hostility to the defensive SDI, unless they truly wanted us defenseless.  Look at Israel's 'Iron Dome' - that comes straight out of SDI technology.  Does that look 'unworkable' to you?  Should it be denounced as some 'Star Wars' fantasy?


You should at least know about the various groups - they are the forerunners to your 'Occupy' crowd, have the same 'values', and for the most part are the same hate filled people - with new recruits.  In the 80s there were various groups that would come together to throw a riot - seemed like every weekend sometimes.  Oh, how they hated Reagan, and especially his successes in the economy and in foreign policy.  During the 90s they were mostly quiet - we had a Democrat in the White House after all (just like Occupy is quiet now, with another Democrat in the WH.  Coincidence?)

During the 2000s they swarmed out again, this time under the umbrella of International Solidarity, partially funded by the North Koreans.  After a few years, people got bored with that and it went limp.  Only to be replaced by the reorganized 'Occupy' trash.  You really should know the history of the people you support, who they are, what their true goals are.


But back to the demands we unilaterally disarm, unilaterally get rid of our nukes, and agree to whatever lopsided terms the Soviets would propose.  I wasn't lied to by Reagan, I saw it with my own eyes.  I paid attention to what the Democrats in DC were saying and doing at the time.  If you've been told otherwise, perhaps you should ask why you've been lied to.


One thing you are right about - this stuff discredits the Left.  But it's their own doing, not some lie someone tells about them

[PB the Deplorable]

... There are 8, one was 17 years, being below the age limit...

Everyone knows a 17 year old thug is no threat to anyone, and will likely become a decent productive citizen the instant he turns 18.

[Rudolf Zlabinger]

Everyone knows a 17 year old thug is no threat to anyone, and will likely become a decent productive citizen the instant he turns 18.

Old enough for murder, but I admit that joke as a sardonic one.