President Donald J. Trump

[Yorkshire pud]

Pud won't get it, but the fact is this is seriously important. Public schools in the US do not provide a good education. They provide a dumbed down one that graduates functionally illiterate people. They often don't even read in English or literature classes anymore, they are read to.

As I said; you'll be willing for your taxes to rise to pay for them? Its okay, they won't, because they won't. Has Trump said how many billions are to be poured into public education? He's alluded to much more going into an already very well funded military. What about education?

[21st Century Man]

Really? And you'll be willing for you to fund that yes? We had a similar 'choice' shitstorm in the UK; and the 'choice' was nebulous at best. Because schools have a finite number of places with finite resources, and what happens is you have house prices rocket in the areas the schools reside in, with the bright but poor families unable to send their kids there.

Those are the facts. Not alternative (Trump) ones, real ones.

So you are anti-choice?  Got it!  I'm glad we cleared that up.

[Yorkshire pud]

So you are anti-choice?  Got it!  I'm glad we cleared that up.

Not anti choice; but Trump (Quelle Surprise!) is lying. He won't put money into education to give real choice. Answer me this: Will you be willing to have your taxes rise to pay for all kids to have a decent education irrespective of social status?

[21st Century Man]

As I said; you'll be willing for your taxes to rise to pay for them? Its okay, they won't, because they won't. Has Trump said how many billions are to be poured into public education? He's alluded to much more going into an already very well funded military. What about education?

So you would rather cave-in to the corrupt teachers unions and the like?  New things need to be tried in the US for education.  The public school system has been failing in many parts of the country.  The system is broke and we should be looking for alternatives.  Doesn't hurt to try anyway but you don't even support that.  So much for being liberal.

[Yorkshire pud]

So you would rather cave-in to the corrupt teachers unions and the like?  New things need to be tried in the US for education.  The public school system has been failing in many parts of the country.  The system is broke and we should be looking for alternatives.  Doesn't hurt to try anyway but you don't even support that.  So much for being liberal.

You'll be willing for your taxes to rise to pay for decent education for all? Yes or no?

[21st Century Man]

Not anti choice; but Trump (Quelle Surprise!) is lying. He won't put money into education to give real choice. Answer me this: Will you be willing to have your taxes rise to pay for all kids to have a decent education irrespective of social status?

Property taxes pay for most of the education in this country not the federal government so your argument is moot. You are also engaging in pure speculation since you have an ax to grind with Trump.

[21st Century Man]

Pud won't get it, but the fact is this is seriously important. Public schools in the US do not provide a good education. They provide a dumbed down one that graduates functionally illiterate people. They often don't even read in English or literature classes anymore, they are read to.

Exactly.  It is a stain on our national pride and it needs to be fixed.

[Yorkshire pud]

So you would rather cave-in to the corrupt teachers unions and the like?  New things need to be tried in the US for education.  The public school system has been failing in many parts of the country.  The system is broke and we should be looking for alternatives.  Doesn't hurt to try anyway but you don't even support that.  So much for being liberal.

Similar to the UK; the reason the best candidates are reluctant to go into teaching is because of assholes who line up to beat them with a stick. That is just the politicians. They also have to contend with 'parents' who come down to threaten the staff if their little darling thug is disciplined. Would you do a job where you run the risk of being assaulted because you told a student to behave? Why do that when you can get better paid out of the school system?

[Yorkshire pud]

Property taxes pay for most of the education in this country not the federal government so your argument is moot. You are also engaging in pure speculation since you have an ax to grind with Trump.

I said tax; however it is taken, its tax. You're okay with paying towards the billions needed to fix things? Its fine if you are, in fact I think it laudable that you're investing in the kids' education.

[SciFiAuthor]

As I said; you'll be willing for your taxes to rise to pay for them? Its okay, they won't, because they won't. Has Trump said how many billions are to be poured into public education? He's alluded to much more going into an already very well funded military. What about education?

They won't rise. This isn't England Pud. Here in St.L. we currently bus students from the inner cities out to the suburbs, taking upwards of an hour in travel time, because inner city public schools in practice function on a different standard than suburban public schools and anyone in the inner cities that can actually read a book has to be bused out to a school that will give them a slightly better education. But overall, the standards have dropped so far since I graduated 20 years ago that it's hard to recognize US public schools as schools at all rather just young adult daycare centers. Do you realize that there are public schools in the US that no longer teach western history before the renaissance? They graduate entirely ignorant of Aristotle, Plato, The Roman Empire, etc.

I do not blame anyone for wanting a better choice. And if that means vouchers, great, go with that. If that means funding charter schools, great. We already do that with colleges. I'm willing to fund it even though I don't have kids. But it won't be needed, they just need to cut some of the atrocious waste that goes on from the public school system. 

[21st Century Man]

Similar to the UK; the reason the best candidates are reluctant to go into teaching is because of assholes who line up to beat them with a stick. That is just the politicians. They also have to contend with 'parents' who come down to threaten the staff if their little darling thug is disciplined. Would you do a job where you run the risk of being assaulted because you told a student to behave? Why do that when you can get better paid out of the school system?

We have fine charter schools that know how to educate our children.  I have teachers in my extended family who are top notch educators in public schools too.  Just as other laws are being ignored our country, few seem to want to enforce school rules. 

[Yorkshire pud]

They won't rise. This isn't England Pud. Here in St.L. we currently bus students from the inner cities out to the suburbs, taking upwards of an hour in travel time, because inner city public schools in practice function on a different standard than suburban public schools and anyone in the inner cities that can actually read a book has to be bused out to a school that will give them a slightly better education. But overall, the standards have dropped so far since I graduated 20 years ago that it's hard to recognize US public schools as schools at all rather just young adult daycare centers. Do you realize that there are public schools in the US that no longer teach western history before the renaissance? They graduate entirely ignorant of Aristotle, Plato, The Roman Empire, etc.

I do not blame anyone for wanting a better choice. And if that means vouchers, great, go with that. If that means funding charter schools, great. We already do that with colleges. I'm willing to fund it even though I don't have kids. But it won't be needed, they just need to cut some of the atrocious waste that goes on from the public school system.

Hmm, and some also put creationism on a level with evolution. Pence will be happy. 

[21st Century Man]

I said tax; however it is taken, its tax. You're okay with paying towards the billions needed to fix things? Its fine if you are, in fact I think it laudable that you're investing in the kids' education.

Sure though I don't think the cost is nearly as high as you speculate. As for public schools, it is a matter of strength of fortitude from county boards to set standards that guarantee an excellent education. Money is not really the issue there.

[21st Century Man]

Hmm, and some also put creationism on a level with evolution. Pence will be happy. 

Give it a rest. 

[21st Century Man]

I'm disappointed in you, pud.  Here I thought you were pro-choice. 

[SciFiAuthor]

Property taxes pay for most of the education in this country not the federal government so your argument is moot. You are also engaging in pure speculation since you have an ax to grind with Trump.

I don't know where you live 21st, but here in semi-rural MO my property taxes are absurdly low. I could pay ten times what I do right now and it would still be 1/5th the taxes if I had the same house located two counties away. Rural property taxes in the US need a reform badly.

[albrecht]

Sure though I don't think the cost is nearly as high as you speculate. As for public schools, it is a matter of strength of fortitude from county boards to set standards that guarantee an excellent education. Money is not really the issue there.

Parents bitch and sue when their precious child is not advanced to the next grade level despite not exhibiting proficiency or is disciplined for fighting, cursing, bullying, skipping classes, etc. Nobody also talks about the amount of illegals and "diversity" in schools- fine if they behave. But hard to teach American History or Geometry if the student is not able to speak English and often is not even literate in their OWN language. The public schools welcome the immigrants, illegal or legal, because funding is based mostly on numbers for State and Federal grants and apportionment (and Courts and laws say that they must.) Also there is more ethnic, racial, and gang strife in schools due to the influx. And school here now are even going to provide DINNER to children, not just breakfast and lunch. So more costs on the tax-payer. And so parents who can afford to do so pay and put their kids in private or parochial schools or move to 'better' school districts and the the public schools get worse and perform worse on paper- which makes the teachers look bad etc. And when it comes down to brass tacks even "leftists" "progressives" and "SJW," when it comes to the welfare of their own children pull their kids out and into better schools. It is great on paper to have diversity, illegals, "free" food and education but when it is their children who might get beat up or suffer a bad education because classes need to be "dumbed down" to accommodate, or because there is no discipline in the school- they change their attitude. Just as Obama etc sends his kids to an elite, private, religious school while at the same time lauding "public education."

[Luka Megurine]

I don't know where you live 21st, but here in semi-rural MO my property taxes are absurdly low. I could pay ten times what I do right now and it would still be 1/5th the taxes if I had the same house located two counties away. Rural property taxes in the US need a reform badly.

My rural property taxes are absurdly high just like all taxes in this shit hole state of Illinois, might move to Indiana soon.

[SciFiAuthor]

Hmm, and some also put creationism on a level with evolution. Pence will be happy. 

It's funny that you say that. I attended Catholic schools for the first 8 years and graduated knowing who Charles Darwin was and what the theory of evolution was. It was in-depth enough that I even knew about the HMS Beagle voyage. Then for the next 4 years, I attended a public school and when I got in there none of the kids that had gone through the public school system knew about evolution though it did eventually get taught in biology class. That was 30 years ago and science is now one of the more compromised areas of education so it wouldn't surprise me if most kids graduate without any real idea of what evolution is. Ignorance does more for promoting the adoption of creationism than religion does.

[SciFiAuthor]

My rural property taxes are absurdly high just like all taxes in this shit hole state of Illinois, might move to Indiana soon.

Illinois really isn't a state anymore though. It's it's own unique entity. It's like the batshit crazy rabid feminist liberal aunt that no one wants to go near to the states that surround it.

[21st Century Man]

I don't know where you live 21st, but here in semi-rural MO my property taxes are absurdly low. I could pay ten times what I do right now and it would still be 1/5th the taxes if I had the same house located two counties away. Rural property taxes in the US need a reform badly.

Well, I live in Cobb County, GA outside of Atlanta and the taxes are fairly high but really not that bad.  I paid $650 this past year for the house but that is mainly because the house is still in my parents name and they had a senior discount.  Our taxes are low compared to the time when we lived in New Jersey.  They were outrageously high there and that was the main reason we moved back to GA.

[21st Century Man]

It's funny that you say that. I attended Catholic schools for the first 8 years and graduated knowing who Charles Darwin was and what the theory of evolution was. It was in-depth enough that I even knew about the HMS Beagle voyage. Then for the next 4 years, I attended a public school and when I got in there none of the kids that had gone through the public school system knew about evolution though it did eventually get taught in biology class. That was 30 years ago and science is now one of the more compromised areas of education so it wouldn't surprise me if most kids graduate without any real idea of what evolution is. Ignorance does more for promoting the adoption of creationism than religion does.

Right.  I was never taught creationism in school but Darwinism.  Creationism has always been a theory that is based on faith not science and I doubt that a school would ever teach creationism as a science.  Darwinism is based on scientific theory so of course it will be taught in science class.  I think the argument that right-wing politicians want to force creationism down everybody's throat to be superfluous.  Such is not going to happen.  At most,  Moses will be mentioned in history class as a possible historic figure.

[Robert Ghostwolf's Ghost]

Sure though I don't think the cost is nearly as high as you speculate. As for public schools, it is a matter of strength of fortitude from county boards to set standards that guarantee an excellent education. Money is not really the issue there.

I spent several years writing proficiency tests for the curricula of several state and county boards of education, and that is much easier said than done. Curriculum standards are set by committees whose members bring all sorts of competing agendas to the table. As a result, what gets taught is a compromise curriculum that that is pretty much a cobbled together conglomeration that gives everyone something while pleasing nobody. Human nature being what it is, I don't see any way to solve that problem, because people are almost always going to pursue their own narrow interests at the expense of common sense and the common good.

Another problem is that boards of education tend to approve curriculum designed to prevent students from failing rather than learning and achieving to keep them and the teachers from looking bad. They also often demand that tests be written at a level that ensures as many students as possible pass, rather than as instruments for measuring their proficiency in a subject. I worked on a test for one southern state whose tenth graders were still learning addition and subtraction, and we weren't allowed to write test problems that required them to subtract from numbers containing zeroes. That was about the worst, but there were plenty of others. I eventually got disillusioned and went into another field because I felt dishonest doing it.

And it's not a liberal/conservative issue. Just about everyone deserves blame for the current state of public education.

[Luka Megurine]

Well, I live in Cobb County, GA outside of Atlanta and the taxes are fairly high but really not that bad.  I paid $650 this past year for the house but that is mainly because the house is still in my parents name and they had a senior discount.  Our taxes are low compared to the time when we lived in New Jersey.  They were outrageously high there and that was the main reason we moved back to GA.

mines almost $2,000 and the kids are still dumb as hell. I am starting to feel like im the bigger potato in this situation than the kid's our school system pumps out. Fuck this im looking for a house in Indiana, zillow.com here i come!

[paladin1991]

As I said; you'll be willing for your taxes to rise to pay for them? Its okay, they won't, because they won't. Has Trump said how many billions are to be poured into public education? He's alluded to much more going into an already very well funded military. What about education?

Are your kids being taught Paki, Afghani, Arabic, Chinese or Indian?  You know, to better assimilate to your immigrants?  Allah forbid that they be expected to embrace your language and customs.

[Jackstar]

Answer me this: Will you be willing to have your taxes rise to pay for all kids to have a decent education irrespective of social status?

Fuck your mother.

[Jackstar]

Creationism has always been a theory that is based on faith not science

Prove it.

[paladin1991]

Not anti choice; but Trump (Quelle Surprise!) is lying. He won't put money into education to give real choice. Answer me this: Will you be willing to have your taxes rise to pay for all kids to have a decent education irrespective of social status?

I am of the mind that we should follow W.E.B. Dubois' plan to educate the American negro.  Send everyone to school.  But take the top 10 percentile and invest in them above and beyond what the masses get.  A full ride on expenses.  Push this 10 percent to be the over achievers and future leaders.  Pour into them our nations treasures so that they will become our nations treasure.  And in return, they will pull us forward to greater heights.


Raise taxes for education?  Yes.  To invest in a bigger, stronger military to protect our allies so that they don't have to spend their fair share?   No.

[Jackstar]

Curriculum standards are set by committees whose members bring all sorts of competing agendas to the table.

Does the member who constantly sits in the corner, haranguing everyone about who killed the President, at least bring donuts to the table?

I would bring lemon bars. For the sourpuss.

[Jackstar]

im looking for a house in Indiana

Behold, the evolution of a legend.