Art Bell

[Heather Wade]

Can the admin share the technology behind the Gab Cast stream?  I was totally blown away by the simplicity & speed at which the audio began when I first used it.

The GabCast is powered entirely by de-clawed gerbils running in wheels.  It takes a fleet of them for it to sound so good though.

[sorefinger]

I really really want that 32 AAC+ but a lot of computers will not do it, so I guess we we have to have a combo.

Art

Art and Keith,

Something to think about for the future:

If TuneIn radio can make a living providing a stream to my smartphone, its only means of support being advert revenue, then surely MiTD could do the same thing with its own app (or web stream like Gab Cast), outfits like Google serving up the ads in the background, transparently to both of you, who only have to worry about producing the show and cashing the advert checks.

Take a look at KAHM's Android app (http://www.kahm.info/), which is a tiny app (1.28 mb) that delivers beautiful fidelity.  Granted, they are serving up music only, however, for your needs you could dial back on the speed, saving on bandwidth costs. 

TuneIn's bandwidth overhead is just plain heinous.  Even though I listen on 32k, the virtual bandwidth load is nearly double, because TuneIn is bent on constantly serving up adverts, even when my screen is off (when I can't see ads anyway).  The greed of them, using my precious resources when it does them no good whatsoever. You'd think they'd demonstrate a bit of respect for preserving resources on this earth. But no-o-o-o, they perceive my resources as something free to them, too witness to realize the public-relations disaster they've created for themselves. 

According to my calculations, there should never be buffering at 64k on a G2 connection, however, because TuneIn is such a bandwidth hog, they deliberately force buffering and steal user resources.  This is just not my opinion, alone.  Read the reviews at the Google store.  Less than one percent of their 100 million downloads are very happy with the app, probably only people who have a high speed environment, without data caps.  TuneIn probably doesn't even realize that Android is a smartphone environment, thus, their desktop bloatware on a mobile device.  Real geniuses!

[sorefinger]

Correction:

Less than one percent of their 100 million downloads are very happy with the app

Less than one percent of TuneIn's 100 million downloads report even 4.5 stars.

[Catsmile]

I really really want that 32 AAC+ but a lot of computers will not do it, so I guess we will have to have a combo.

Art

Thanks for going with two streams using AAC+, and MP3.

Listening to a compressed cell phone call sucks right? Well try listening to a compressed cell phone call on a low bitrate MP3 stream.  Please consider making the 32K MP3 stream MONO, it will improve the overall sound quality. Especially the intelligibility of the guest and callers. Using god only knows what kind of phone connection on their end.

While AAC+ may cause more tech support issues, it gives choice to ALL, even the folks not using cell phone speakers, or earbuds.

Thanks again for going out of your way to give the best streaming experience for ALL, within limitations of a budget, and the current state of technology.   

[laserjock]

Each new update is bloatware to fix the unintended consequences of the previous update.

This is what we, as consumers, get when we roll over for a monopoly like Microsoft.  If General Motors had a corner on the automobile market, every car we buy would come with a hundred recall notices.  No one alive would ever stand for such a company, yet we all genuflect and play disciple for Microsoft.  As a global mind, this points to insanity, plain and simple.  As Nietzsche once said, when a hundred men stand together, each loses his mind and gets another one.

Actually, software HAS to evolve ever and ever, it's not a mechanical system, as each hack exploit reveals, they have to fix lines of code, it doesn't matter what OS you choose.  Linux distros also get monthly to weekly updates, updates aren't really flawed design, it's the organic nature of software, there is no perfect software, take some programming classes before you knock it, it's hard stuff.

[Catsmile]

Art and Keith,

Something to think about for the future:

If TuneIn radio can make a living providing a stream to my smartphone, its only means of support being advert revenue, then surely MiTD could do the same thing with its own app (or web stream like Gab Cast), outfits like Google serving up the ads in the background, transparently to both of you, who only have to worry about producing the show and cashing the advert checks.

Take a look at KAHM's Android app (http://www.kahm.info/), which is a tiny app (1.28 mb) that delivers beautiful fidelity.  Granted, they are serving up music only, however, for your needs you could dial back on the speed, saving on bandwidth costs. 

TuneIn's bandwidth overhead is just plain heinous.  Even though I listen on 32k, the virtual bandwidth load is nearly double, because TuneIn is bent on constantly serving up adverts, even when my screen is off (when I can't see ads anyway).  The greed of them, using my precious resources when it does them no good whatsoever. You'd think they'd demonstrate a bit of respect for preserving resources on this earth. But no-o-o-o, they perceive my resources as something free to them, too witness to realize the public-relations disaster they've created for themselves. 

According to my calculations, there should never be buffering at 64k on a G2 connection, however, because TuneIn is such a bandwidth hog, they deliberately force buffering and steal user resources.  This is just not my opinion, alone.  Read the reviews at the Google store.  Less than one percent of their 100 million downloads are very happy with the app, probably only people who have a high speed environment, without data caps.  TuneIn probably doesn't even realize that Android is a smartphone environment, thus, their desktop bloatware on a mobile device.  Real geniuses!

Let me get this right...
You tell Art, and GabCast to think about geting a phone app that can serve up ads to make money. Then you bitch about how phone apps eat up your bandwidth and data usage by serving up ads. WTF!?

If they take your advice, will you then bitch about how much of your bandwidth and data their streams consume? There is a bullet loaded in every chamber in that game of Russian roulette.

                                         

[Morgus]

I really really want that 32 AAC+ but a lot of computers will not do it, so I guess we we have to have a combo.

Art

yep, thats the consequence of using the "bleeding edge" of technology, compatability issues...

[sorefinger]

Let me get this right...
You tell Art, and GabCast to think about geting a phone app that can serve up ads to make money. Then you bitch about how phone apps eat up your bandwidth and data usage by serving up ads. WTF!?

If they take your advice, will you then bitch about how much of your bandwidth and data their streams consume? There is a bullet loaded in every chamber in that game of Russian roulette.

You are missing one important point.  Art would never double the bandwidth with advert overhead.

[Morgus]

TuneIn's bandwidth overhead is just plain heinous.  Even though I listen on 32k, the virtual bandwidth load is nearly double, because TuneIn is bent on constantly serving up adverts, even when my screen is off (when I can't see ads anyway).  The greed of them, using my precious resources when it does them no good whatsoever. You'd think they'd demonstrate a bit of respect for preserving resources on this earth. But no-o-o-o, they perceive my resources as something free to them, too witness to realize the public-relations disaster they've created for themselves. 

According to my calculations, there should never be buffering at 64k on a G2 connection, however, because TuneIn is such a bandwidth hog, they deliberately force buffering and steal user resources.  This is just not my opinion, alone.  Read the reviews at the Google store.  Less than one percent of their 100 million downloads are very happy with the app, probably only people who have a high speed environment, without data caps.  TuneIn probably doesn't even realize that Android is a smartphone environment, thus, their desktop bloatware on a mobile device.  Real geniuses!

TuneIn probably does all that to entice you to purchase their $9.99 TuneIn Pro app that eliminates the ads?

[sorefinger]

Actually, software HAS to evolve ever and ever, it's not a mechanical system, as each hack exploit reveals, they have to fix lines of code, it doesn't matter what OS you choose.  Linux distros also get monthly to weekly updates, updates aren't really flawed design, it's the organic nature of software, there is no perfect software, take some programming classes before you knock it, it's hard stuff.

I've reviewed some of your old posts, much critical of a lot of software.  You sure are up high on your horse, handing yourself free passes while chastising me for knocking Windows, telling me I should learn how to code, first.  Coding is easy for someone with talent. But how would you know?  You're not even a coder. This is how you described yourself: "I'm not an IT person, I'm a just a stupid photonics tech..."

I noticed that you didn't knock Art when he criticized windows. That's because you are just another troll, always looking for an opportunity to bully. Well, if you want to spar with me, you should take some kickboxing lessons, first.  Meantime, get a life and quit picking on me. Your posts here are not more important than mine.

[albrecht]

this should, I guess, be posted in "technology" thread but since MITD and all this recent posts:
-How does internet streaming ("internet radio") work? For the layman.

-Is it like "radio" (that is, I can use TuneIn, AOR, PCRadio, Stitcher, ScannerRadioand all the countless apps) and can simply tune into a "stream"?

-I imagine some, like iHate Media, Inc, will make you use their specific app to get some of their content? Is that what will happen with MITD that it will be TuneIn only? Or is the broadcast stream out on the internet and you can "tune in" via many audio-streaming players? Or like a website URL where your player/browsers seeks out that site and then gets the stream?

ps: re Tune-In, I deleted it and went to the web and installed a way earlier version. So far not as many ads and seems to work fine. (Not "pro" and on some streams ads happen.) Again, I don't know how internet "radio" work and if the version or the software does the commercial (so maybe the later versions of the app might contain more ads or if the station's streams push the ads out.)

[sorefinger]

TuneIn probably does all that to entice you to purchase their $9.99 TuneIn Pro app that eliminates the ads?

You're right, they don't know how to make money the old fashioned way.  They piss off 10 million people for every 9.99 that they collect.  Funny, during Art's old shows, I never groused about the ads. Some of them were actually pretty good, the embedded ones especially.

[wr250]

You're right, they don't know how to make money the old fashioned way.  They piss off 10 million people for every 9.99 that they collect.  Funny, during Art's old shows, I never groused about the ads. Some of them were actually pretty good, the embedded ones especially.

thats because Art is smart enough to make his ads interesting, helpful, and useful to him, and therefore us.

[sorefinger]

this should, I guess, be posted in "technology" thread but since MITD and all this recent posts:
-How does internet streaming ("internet radio") work? For the layman.

-Is it like "radio" (that is, I can use TuneIn, AOR, PCRadio, Stitcher, ScannerRadioand all the countless apps) and can simply tune into a "stream"?

-I imagine some, like iHate Media, Inc, will make you use their specific app to get some of their content? Is that what will happen with MITD that it will be TuneIn only? Or is the broadcast stream out on the internet and you can "tune in" via many audio-streaming players? Or like a website URL where your player/browsers seeks out that site and then gets the stream?

ps: re Tune-In, I deleted it and went to the web and installed a way earlier version. So far not as many ads and seems to work fine. (Not "pro" and on some streams ads happen.) Again, I don't know how internet "radio" work and if the version or the software does the commercial (so maybe the later versions of the app might contain more ads or if the station's streams push the ads out.)

I'm still wondering if the exclusive distributor will be TuneIn, too.  I had posed the question to Art a while back. I'm glad to see you are curious, too.

[sorefinger]

ps: re Tune-In, I deleted it and went to the web and installed a way earlier version. So far not as many ads and seems to work fine. (Not "pro" and on some streams ads happen.) Again, I don't know how internet "radio" work and if the version or the software does the commercial (so maybe the later versions of the app might contain more ads or if the station's streams push the ads out.)

Like you, I'm using an older version of TuneIn, too.  Still way too much advert overhead though, all running in the background, even when you're not looking at the screen.  Most are videos, draining the battery.

[albrecht]

I'm still wondering if the exclusive distributor will be TuneIn, too.  I had posed the question to Art a while back. I'm glad to see you are curious, too.

Or worse like another C2C host, though not nearly as great as Art(!), did with his internet "radio" program that seemed to have nothing but problems and, I guess, has disappeared (Caravan To Midnight? Not sure on this.) He also was looking for $5/month I think. Which would be fine to get the full-quality program in podcast form from MITD but doesn't seem, to me, to be a way to grow a program from someone, like John B Wells, without much popularity, and especially if also locked into only one player. Maybe the locked-down, dedicated delivery method could work for Art since he has dedicated fans but not sure about GROWING the fan-base especially as the younger kids want stuff for "free" (though, paradoxically, they will "donate" for "free" stuff if marketed to correctly.)

[Catsmile]

You are missing one important point.  Art would never double the bandwidth with advert overhead.

Humm... dunno I'm sure you will find something to grouse about "unique" to your situation, that you will want Art to accommodate.

I think Art has listened to all of our input, and has done a fine job creating the best compromises in a less than perfect world.  Getting two codec streams up and running, along with guest and caller connections running smoothly and reliably can be challenging enough at first. Much less worrying with supporting a phone app that serves up ad space. Some people might feel that Google or other companies consuming their limited data resources, and snooping on there phones to serve ads as unacceptable. Especially those living in remote off the grid Ted Kaczynski shacks with their foil hats on.

                                     

[sorefinger]

Or worse like another C2C host, though not nearly as great as Art(!), did with his internet "radio" program that seemed to have nothing but problems and, I guess, has disappeared (Caravan To Midnight? Not sure on this.) He also was looking for $5/month I think. Which would be fine to get the full-quality program in podcast form from MITD but doesn't seem, to me, to be a way to grow a program from someone, like John B Wells, without much popularity, and especially if also locked into only one player. Maybe the locked-down, dedicated delivery method could work for Art since he has dedicated fans but not sure about GROWING the fan-base especially as the younger kids want stuff for "free" (though, paradoxically, they will "donate" for "free" stuff if marketed to correctly.)

When Art says the program has to be free, he's coming from a strong position of experience in the industry.  He already knows what works and doesn't work. That's why he jumped ship from Sirius radio. He wanted to expand the base, Sirius didn't want any part of it.  Art wanted to cut back on all the adverts, they didn't want to hear it. Art has a heart, Sirius doesn't.

[wr250]

Humm... dunno I'm sure you will find something to grouse about "unique" to your situation, that you will want Art to accommodate.

I think Art has listened to all of our input, and has done a fine job creating the best compromises in a less than perfect world.  Getting two codec streams up and running, along with guest and caller connections running smoothly and reliably can be challenging enough at first. Much less worrying with supporting a phone app that serves up ad space. Some people might feel that Google or other companies consuming their limited data resources, and snooping on there phones to serve ads as unacceptable. Especially those living in remote off the grid Ted Kaczynski shacks with their foil hats on.

                                     

hey i resemble that remark. and my cat too

[Morgus]

Like you, I'm using an older version of TuneIn, too.  Still way too much advert overhead though, all running in the background, even when you're not looking at the screen.  Most are videos, draining the battery.

I just did some searching on the Google play store and found a free android app that appears to have no ads and can play .m3u playlists (local or streaming) called "Just Playlists"
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.journeyman.android.apps.justplaylists&hl=en

I tried it on my android smartphone and it is able to play the Dark Matter Radio Network (mp3 stream) using the .m3u file link (used with external PC audio players like VLC and winamp) at the Dark Matter Radio Network website. You can either download the small .m3u playlist file and save somewhere on your android device, or just click on the link each time at the dark matter radio network website if you setup the app to be the default player for .m3u files.
http://live.darkmatterradio.net:8303/live.m3u

The app is pretty basic, but it plays without ads that I can see.
The app appears to stop playing at the end of a program, so you have to restart the stream when a new program begins.

Perhaps there are some other android free audio players that support playing .m3u playlist streams, like PC programs including VLC and Winamp?

[Humilia Lepus Foramen]

This is NOT a complaint about MITD, just that TuneIn seems to get worse with every update.  I'll still listen, of course, but first going to find a way to revert to an older, simpler version of TuneIn.  Back in the good old days of that app, there were minimal commercials and you could skip through them, and it was easier to access the similar stations feature.  No I'm not going to pay extra for TuneIn pro, I'm saving that money for something else

[albrecht]

This is NOT a complaint about MITD, just that TuneIn seems to get worse with every update.  I'll still listen, of course, but first going to find a way to revert to an older, simpler version of TuneIn.  Back in the good old days of that app, there were minimal commercials and you could skip through them, and it was easier to access the similar stations feature.  No I'm not going to pay extra for TuneIn pro, I'm saving that money for something else

I'm not very tech savvy but one thing I have learned is to not update Apps. Or, don't update at least without seriously looking at what the update is and talking to people who already have updated it. Because usually it is something free or that works well that is going to more ads or costs or more "interfaces" that make it harder to operate. Of course, some apps might decide to die or not work if you don't but until that happens I don't update.
I can't wait for MITD!!!

[Catsmile]

I just did some searching on the Google play store and found a free android app that appears to have no ads and can play .m3u playlists (local or streaming) called "Just Playlists"
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.journeyman.android.apps.justplaylists&hl=en

I tried it on my android smartphone and it is able to play the Dark Matter Radio Network (mp3 stream) using the .m3u file link (used with external PC audio players like VLC and winamp) at the Dark Matter Radio Network website. You can either download the small .m3u playlist file and save somewhere on your android device, or just click on the link each time at the dark matter radio network website if you setup the app to be the default player for .m3u files.
http://live.darkmatterradio.net:8303/live.m3u

The app is pretty basic, but it plays without ads that I can see.
The app appears to stop playing at the end of a program, so you have to restart the stream when a new program begins.

Perhaps there are some other android free audio players that support playing .m3u playlist streams, like PC programs including VLC and Winamp?

DAMNIT MORGUS! Stop making sense, and being bright and shit! I want my piece of shit TuneIn app that I can bitch about. Damn if I'm gonna be put out by doing something about it, like voting with my feet, or wallet. Because that shit sounds like work. <shivers>

[Morgus]

Another possible alternative to TuneIn player for android devices.
There is a VLC media player app for android:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.videolan.vlc&hl=en

It appears to support .m3u streams just like the PC version of VLC, so that may work as well to play the DMRN .m3u stream on both PC and android devices.

[Morgus]

In spite of the ads, I do like some features in TuneIn that aren't available in other simple stream players.
With TuneIn, it can buffer up to 30min of audio, so I can pause for a few minutes and then play and not miss part of the show.
The ads only bug me a little bit, but I still use TuneIn anyway.
I can use it to play some regular radio stations (even ones that play c2cam and Art Bell Somewhere in Time on Sat nights) as well as several classic Art Bell streams, in addition to the Dark Matter Radio network stream. So its kinda a universal streaming audio player for me - don't need others like I Heart Radio, etc.

Once Art's show starts up in July and if its still going by the end of the year, I might pony up the $9.99 for the ad-free TuneIn Pro at that time.

[albrecht]

DAMNIT MORGUS! Stop making sense, and being bright and shit! I want my piece of shit TuneIn app that I can bitch about. Damn if I'm gonna be put out by doing something about it, like voting with my feet, or wallet. Because that shit sounds like work. <shivers>

I thank Morgus for his work but there are many free players out there, that is not the issue. Though I'm not super familiar with the technology of internet "radio" it appeared (from some chatter here) that Tune-In was the only option to listen? If so, some people might complain. If not and the stream (at least live-stream, if not the later replay or podcast) is in m3u (or whatever) that is great because other players etc can be used. My question was if it was going to be a "Tune-In" only type of deal (similar, for an easy example of how baseball etc was taking away from online streaming players and you need to use a specific player app to listen.)

[Morgus]

I thank Morgus for his work but there are many free players out there, that is not the issue. Though I'm not super familiar with the technology of internet "radio" it appeared (from some chatter here) that Tune-In was the only option to listen? If so, some people might complain. If not and the stream (at least live-stream, if not the later replay or podcast) is in m3u (or whatever) that is great because other players etc can be used. My question was if it was going to be a "Tune-In" only type of deal (similar, for an easy example of how baseball etc was taking away from online streaming players and you need to use a specific player app to listen.)

DMRN isn't TuneIn exclusive, they just also added that as an easy way to use existing android and apple player apps.
Keith also has several other alternative streams, you can play in a web browser there, as well as links for external PC players (.m3u playlist), Itunes playlist (.pls), and windows media player stream (.asx)
On the DMRN webpage right below the TuneIn banner, is 3 icons that are links to the alternative streams.

Those alternative stream formats are mostly for PC media players, but there are apparently some android (and perhaps apple as well?) media player apps that can support one of more of those alternative format playlist streams too.

[Catsmile]

Another possible alternative to TuneIn player for android devices.
There is a VLC media player app for android:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.videolan.vlc&hl=en

It appears to support .m3u streams just like the PC version of VLC, so that may work as well to play the DMRN .m3u stream on both PC and android devices.

STOP THAT MORGUS!

Yeah VLC will stream most formats if you plug in the server address.
Even Windows Media Audio (.WMA) streams. 
Like this one: mms://67.202.144.92:81

[albrecht]

DMRN isn't TuneIn exclusive, they just also added that as an easy way to use existing android and apple player apps.
Keith also has several other alternative streams, you can play in a web browser there, as well as links for external PC players (.m3u playlist), Itunes playlist (.pls), and windows media player stream (.asx)
On the DMRN webpage right below the TuneIn banner, is 3 icons that are links to the alternative streams.

Thanks, I wasn't sure on the situation (and the technology aspect) when MITD comes on versus the current DMRN situation. I can't wait for the new show and there will always be bitching about things. I'm not bitching but just curious.

[Morgus]

TuneIn is probably just the easiest android device app to get up and running quickly with the DMRN stream since you can do simple searches to find it, no techie stuff like .m3u files or server addresses required.
So I can understand why TuneIn would be suggested first, but its not the only option if you can work a bit harder and want to avoid ads and/or pay for TuneIn Pro.