Art Bell Quits Dark Matter

[samdean]

I would be keen to hear Art's take on this one.  As a talk show host, he used the dump button far less than most of his contempararies.  That was one of the things I admired about his shows, Art's guests and callers got their say even when their say was unpopular, in poor taste, beyond the norm, or just plain stupid.  My opinion of Art is that he is a staunch believer in the First Amendment, in fact I think an arguement could be his livlihood depends on him being able to exercise those self-same rights.  That's not to say he might not want to take a swing at a couple folks here on a purely personal level, but I don't see Art being in favor of censoring even the crassest of our lot.

I wish people would stop misquoting the First Amendment as if it is some right to say anything, anywhere to anyone.

The First Amendment only applies to MOST government restricted speech.  (The government retains the right to restrict lots of speech)

People don't have the "First Amendment" right to post any insult they want on a message board.  People don't have "First Amendment" right to say what they want on someone else's radio show.

Now, if you want to say that someone believes in freedom of speech, that is entirely different from the First Amendment, which only applies to government intervention.  It has been many years since I was a philosophy major in college, but there was one philosopher (either Socrates, Plato or Aristotle.. don't remember which exactly) who talked about the value of free speech in that it helped reveal the fault in people's reasoning and essentially helped weed out the idiots.

I get so sick of the moron politicians/pundits who say something stupid and then scream "FIRST AMENDMENT" when they face backlash and boycotts and/or get fired for their stupid statements.

No, you don't have a "First Amendment" right to say anything you want anywhere, anytime without consequences. 

[Textor]

I wish people would stop misquoting the First Amendment as if it is some right to say anything, anywhere to anyone.

The First Amendment only applies to MOST government restricted speech.  (The government retains the right to restrict lots of speech)

People don't have the "First Amendment" right to post any insult they want on a message board.  People don't have "First Amendment" right to say what they want on someone else's radio show.

Now, if you want to say that someone believes in freedom of speech, that is entirely different from the First Amendment, which only applies to government intervention.  It has been many years since I was a philosophy major in college, but there was one philosopher (either Socrates, Plato or Aristotle.. don't remember which exactly) who talked about the value of free speech in that it helped reveal the fault in people's reasoning and essentially helped weed out the idiots.

I get so sick of the moron politicians/pundits who say something stupid and then scream "FIRST AMENDMENT" when they face backlash and boycotts and/or get fired for their stupid statements.

No, you don't have a "First Amendment" right to say anything you want anywhere, anytime without consequences.

To be specific, the First Amendment essentially DOES say you can say anything you want-- the restrictions on free speech were imposed by Supreme Court rulings as they interpreted the First Amendment to not apply to speech considered harmful:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

[HaveAccess]

When I do begin streaming it will be only me, no large company. If I made any
mistake that was it. I should have simply started streaming myself, for that I
do blame myself.

                                                                                       Art 

I think you have found it.

So often in life we go round in circles looking for the answer. Years go by with disappointment. Only those lucky few eventually find it.

Something you might consider is making it financially viable... I know...I know...If I said it once, Ive said it a thousand times...
You need to sell, downloadable MP3s... Licensing for AM stations not connected to the Premcrap Empire. Advertizing fees... Planetary reach.

Another thing. You could act as a platform to elevate other gifted interviewers of the "paranormal". There are some really gifted, talented interviewers out there, largely unknown by the public, that you could bring on your "channel". Im thinking 24/7 with an array of moderators, including yourself, as but one.  And by "paranormal" I mean it in the same sense as yourself. Everything from cutting edge hard science to ghosts and mysticism, to dangerous tourism, to contract warfighters,  to our enigmatic Visitors. The edge of human experience.  An entire channel for the intellectually curious: those who delight in the "What if?" and "Could it be?"...

Kind of reminds me of the Sixties here. Standing by the road in jeans and t shirt and long hair. Cars passing by. My thumb out. My cardboard sign says "Pahrump". Just waiting for my ride.

Youve got 2 years to plan Art. When you come back, hit the bastards like a ton of bricks.

[McPhallus]

The case rests M'learned friends.

The real question: do Tardmac and his ilk truly realize the the implications of their condition or do they just not care?

[ThruTarmac]

The real question: do Tardmac and his ilk truly realize the the implications of their condition or do they just not care?

You're right...again.

I guess I just want to support Art.

Plus, it's nice having my own troll. 

Thanks, McPhallus!

[anumcara]

New to forum. Hiya Yorkshire Pud - this is Ripon calling and loving Art Bell!  What a splendid forum - I have read every word however, it has taken me a long time to post but finally got the balls when I saw Yorkshire Pud online 

[Uncle Duke]

,f

I wish people would stop misquoting the First Amendment as if it is some right to say anything, anywhere to anyone.

The First Amendment only applies to MOST government restricted speech.  (The government retains the right to restrict lots of speech)

People don't have the "First Amendment" right to post any insult they want on a message board.  People don't have "First Amendment" right to say what they want on someone else's radio show.

Now, if you want to say that someone believes in freedom of speech, that is entirely different from the First Amendment, which only applies to government intervention.  It has been many years since I was a philosophy major in college, but there was one philosopher (either Socrates, Plato or Aristotle.. don't remember which exactly) who talked about the value of free speech in that it helped reveal the fault in people's reasoning and essentially helped weed out the idiots.

I get so sick of the moron politicians/pundits who say something stupid and then scream "FIRST AMENDMENT" when they face backlash and boycotts and/or get fired for their stupid statements.

No, you don't have a "First Amendment" right to say anything you want anywhere, anytime without consequences.

Yes, yes....yelling "fire" in a crowded theater, with any right comes responsibility, etc.  I get that, didn't infer otherwise.  The point about "freedom of speech" v. "1st Amendment rights" is well taken, however.  I should have used the former expression.

None of this changes my point, however, that I would like to hear Art's position on censoring this site based on someone saying something in poor tastes, beyond the norm, or just plain stupid.  His strong suit as a talk show host was to allow both callers and guests have their say, regardless how out-there.  My guess is Art would not want to see that happen as long as he ( or any other poster) has an equal opportunity to respond to whatever is said.

[HMC]

So glad to hear that Jim is gonna be a part of DMN!

[HaveAccess]

Funding and Artists

And Art.....

Reminds me so much of Tesla.

He had so many fundamental patents....at any time he could have been fabulously wealthy.
And easily, easily funded his experiments.

So he began building Wardenclyffe Tower on Long Island, New York.
His aim was to power the Worlds Fair in Paris from New York in 1905!
Where would we be today if he had done so?

But JP Morgan, withdrew his funding for the project.
He said, if he couldnt put a meter on it and sell the electricity, he wasnt interested.
The project collapsed.

[Textor]

Funding and Artists

And Art.....

Reminds me so much of Tesla.

He had so many fundamental patents....at any time he could have been fabulously wealthy.
And easily, easily funded his experiments.

So he began building Wardenclyffe Tower on Long Island, New York.
His aim was to power the Worlds Fair in Paris from New York in 1905!
Where would we be today if he had done so?

But JP Morgan, withdrew his funding for the project.
He said, if he couldnt put a meter on it and sell the electricity, he wasnt interested.
The project collapsed.

I <3 Tesla. If you haven't seen this yet:

http://theoatmeal.com/comics/tesla

[3OctaveFart]

I suspect Jorch is controlling at least one of these sock puppet troll accounts.

[samdean]

To be specific, the First Amendment essentially DOES say you can say anything you want-- the restrictions on free speech were imposed by Supreme Court rulings as they interpreted the First Amendment to not apply to speech considered harmful:

To be specific and to use your own quote.. no it doesn't say you can say anything you want.

"CONGRESS SHALL make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances"   (emphasis added).

It is ONLY talking about government.  If I own a website/shop and you walk in and say something I don't like, I have the right to kick you out.  So you do not have absolute right to free speech wherever and whenever you want.

[nika01]

,f
Yes, yes....yelling "fire" in a crowded theater, with any right comes responsibility, etc.  I get that, didn't infer otherwise.  The point about "freedom of speech" v. "1st Amendment rights" is well taken, however.  I should have used the former expression.

None of this changes my point, however, that I would like to hear Art's position on censoring this site based on someone saying something in poor tastes, beyond the norm, or just plain stupid.  His strong suit as a talk show host was to allow both callers and guests have their say, regardless how out-there.  My guess is Art would not want to see that happen as long as he ( or any other poster) has an equal opportunity to respond to whatever is said.

Was not aware there were free speech issues between anonymous people via the internet. Dont think so. The poster you were replying to is reaching.

[nika01]

To be specific and to use your own quote.. no it doesn't say you can say anything you want.

"CONGRESS SHALL make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances"   (emphasis added).

It is ONLY talking about government.  If I own a website/shop and you walk in and say something I don't like, I have the right to kick you out.  So you do not have absolute right to free speech wherever and whenever you want.

Sure you can kick people out, but not on any sort of constitutional / 1st amendment basis.

[samdean]

,f
Yes, yes....yelling "fire" in a crowded theater, with any right comes responsibility, etc.  I get that, didn't infer otherwise.  The point about "freedom of speech" v. "1st Amendment rights" is well taken, however.  I should have used the former expression.

None of this changes my point, however, that I would like to hear Art's position on censoring this site based on someone saying something in poor tastes, beyond the norm, or just plain stupid.  His strong suit as a talk show host was to allow both callers and guests have their say, regardless how out-there.  My guess is Art would not want to see that happen as long as he ( or any other poster) has an equal opportunity to respond to whatever is said.

Wasn't the golden rule on Art's show "no bad language"?  Isn't that a restriction of speech?  Hasn't he (in C2C days) banned people from the show?  I'd be curious about Art's opinion as well; however, I have always seen Art as a great arbiter of what has value.  He has often cut people off in the middle of interviews or during stories they are telling because he doesn't think his audience will be interested.

I can't see him having a problem with people getting banned from this (or any privately owned website) for being disruptive or even downright rude. 

[samdean]

Sure you can kick people out, but not on any sort of constitutional / 1st amendment basis.

Of course not.  The Constitution doesn't apply to private individuals, companies, etc...

The first amendment doesn't grant you "freedom of speech" anywhere you want.

However, people try to use it as if it is.  When a politician/pundit/entertainer, heck anyone says something controversial and faces backlash for it or loses their job they SCREAM "MY FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHTS ARE BEING VIOLATED"  However, they are not.

If I own a website and you post something I don't like, I have the absolute right to censor it and remove you from the website.  You have no "First Amendment" rights here.

[Textor]

It is ONLY talking about government.  If I own a website/shop and you walk in and say something I don't like, I have the right to kick you out.  So you do not have absolute right to free speech wherever and whenever you want.

Right, you exercised the right of free speech, and you then got the consequences for doing so. The constitution doesn't BAN saying anything, but free speech comes with a price-- the government just doesn't generally have the right to restrict it.

[Ghost Gab]

Funding and Artists

And Art.....

Reminds me so much of Tesla.

He had so many fundamental patents....at any time he could have been fabulously wealthy.
And easily, easily funded his experiments.

So he began building Wardenclyffe Tower on Long Island, New York.
His aim was to power the Worlds Fair in Paris from New York in 1905!
Where would we be today if he had done so?

But JP Morgan, withdrew his funding for the project.
He said, if he couldnt put a meter on it and sell the electricity, he wasnt interested.
The project collapsed.

When I lived in Colorado Springs I would stand on the spot where Tesla had built his first giant tower and imagine the energy that flowed there and times thought I could still feel some. That tower and lab in Colorado Springs were before the NY tower and facility were built. I'm sure you already know that but it was interesting how he caused the entire city to go dark during an experiment. He loved the lightning around the mountains and buried many spools of wire around his property among other things. They tore down his lab and sold the wood for some houses built in the area and some of his equipment is said to still be near where the lab was taken by people wanting to save his work. Other equipment is in museums or collections I imagine. I went with one paranormal group to a house in Cripple Creek where Tesla stayed during his visits to study the lightning. We even got that investigation of the My Ghost Story TV show, one of two they filmed for us. Tesla was amazing! I once even did a ham radio special event from the spot the lab was once located at. Tesla power!

[nika01]

Of course not.  The Constitution doesn't apply to private individuals, companies, etc...

The first amendment doesn't grant you "freedom of speech" anywhere you want.

However, people try to use it as if it is.  When a politician/pundit/entertainer, heck anyone says something controversial and faces backlash for it or loses their job they SCREAM "MY FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHTS ARE BEING VIOLATED"  However, they are not.

If I own a website and you post something I don't like, I have the absolute right to censor it and remove you from the website.  You have no "First Amendment" rights here.

Yup. Agee 100%. I interpreted what some other guy said to mean people have no right to say things (with the exceptions that the Supreme Court has ruled on). You can say whatever you want, but face the consequences from the extreme of jail to merely getting kick out of a web site. Thought it was worthwhile to amplify this a bit. No one is going to jail from slandering anonymous people, or from pointing out the George Noory is incompetent at his job.

[West of the Rockies]

I can't believe Art is changing as he comes here too.  It's like a virus.  He is in house fighting with a member, and I'm not touching it.  My point is this site can change you quickly.  You can start out nice and then get annoyed and then end up, just pissed off.  Why come back?  Wish I knew.  It's the most oxymoronic thing ever.

Where the hell is the ignore feature?

Too true, Spooky -- it was quite strange to read the exchanges last night live.  Anything Art posted here could easily be reposted out of context elsewhere.  I was very surprised to see him engage directly with knuckleheads.  I felt a bit like Kirk in the 17th episode of season 2... er, maybe it was more like Sheriff Carter in season 4 of Eureka... no, it was like Pete in Warehouse Thir--....

Anyway, it was weird.  I hope we collectively have not run Art off for good.  I hope he finds a way to air his voice again.

[Mind Flayer Monk]

When I lived in Colorado Springs I would stand on the spot where Tesla had built his first giant tower and imagine the energy that flowed there and times thought I could still feel some. That tower and lab in Colorado Springs were before the NY tower and facility were built.

When I lived in Colorado Springs, every metal thing I touched gave me an electrical shock!

[nika01]

When I lived in Colorado Springs, every metal thing I touched gave me an electrical shock!

Low humidity

[West of the Rockies]

I didn't say they depressed me; I said the sycophancy was depressing, as a state. As for meds; s'okay, I'm sorted for them..which begs the question: Are the sycophants?

Or as Alexander Pope used to say, "I just held up a mirror... did you see yourself in it?" 

Hey, when you have the time, Yorkie, can you help me out with my meds or point to an amusing porter? 

[Yorkshire pud]

If I own a website and you post something I don't like, I have the absolute right to censor it and remove you from the website.  You have no "First Amendment" rights here.

and as owner of said website, it's your name above the door, and so therefore can and probably would be held responsible (depending on the laws of the relevant country) for all manner of things deemed offensive or damaging.. Which is why certain threads might sometimes get removed/ edited. It isn't the respective admins being over officious; it's them not wanting to get arrested!

[Yorkshire pud]

Or as Alexander Pope used to say, "I just held up a mirror... did you see yourself in it?" 

Hey, when you have the time, Yorkie, can you help me out with my meds or point to an amusing porter? 

I don't know about an amusing porter old man, but I'm tempted to imbibe a cheeky little Pinot Noir.

[nika01]

and as owner of said website, it's your name above the door, and so therefore can and probably would be held responsible (depending on the laws of the relevant country) for all manner of things deemed offensive or damaging.. Which is why certain threads might sometimes get removed/ edited. It isn't the respective admins being over officious; it's them not wanting to get arrested!

Have there ever been any court cases or legal proceedings resulting from conflicts between two anonymous people?

[HaveAccess]

ConstitutionGab.com

[Yorkshire pud]

New to forum. Hiya Yorkshire Pud - this is Ripon calling and loving Art Bell!  What a splendid forum - I have read every word however, it has taken me a long time to post but finally got the balls when I saw Yorkshire Pud online

Well stay close then; don't lift your head above the parapet; don't poke the right wingers (much), stay calm, and be kind to West of the Rockies, Onan, and a few others..they're the good guys. You're a Yorkshireman (I assume you're male), you know better to admit you finally got the balls; Tsk... We're tough as old boots...sometimes. 

[Uncle Duke]

Was not aware there were free speech issues between anonymous people via the internet. Dont think so. The poster you were replying to is reaching.

We agree, the poster (actually two of them saying basically the same thing) was reaching.

[Yorkshire pud]

Have there ever been any court cases or legal proceedings resulting from conflicts between two anonymous people?

In the Uk? Several times.. I think the precedent was a University professor who was libeled on a forum (may have been a chat room) and won. The forum host was held liable as well as the offender. As far as I recall he received substantial damages and an apology.