Mormons

[anagrammy]

And for your amusement in the center ring, ladies and gentlemen, we have Mormons themselves speculating on why they are considered "Scientology Lite."  Don't take my word, for it, see the bearded lady for yourself.  NOTE:  the article this links you to has an interesting vibe, but the real wowza is the takeover of the religion by corporation sole--click on the cleanshaven, missionary-dressed Jesus.

http://puremormonism.blogspot.com/2010/08/why-dont-they-like-us.html


Anagrammy

PS  Aldous and b_dubb, you will love this!

[b_dubb]

And for your amusement in the center ring, ladies and gentlemen, we have Mormons themselves speculating on why they are considered "Scientology Lite."  Don't take my word, for it, see the bearded lady for yourself.  NOTE:  the article this links you to has an interesting vibe, but the real wowza is the takeover of the religion by corporation sole--click on the cleanshaven, missionary-dressed Jesus.

http://puremormonism.blogspot.com/2010/08/why-dont-they-like-us.html


Anagrammy

PS  Aldous and b_dubb, you will love this!

i like how he buys Amway product just to stay in someone's good graces.  how obsequious

[MV/Liberace!]

thanks for the concern... no, just a series of surgeries to fix my trachea... due to a surgery many years ago because I was intubated too tightly my trachea has narrowed to the diameter less than a straw... bleh

yeah will be fine just a pain in the neck (literally) and recovery

and try to keep us posted with regard to your condition/recovery.  there have been a couple times in the past where members have apprised me/us of an illness, and i/we never heard from them again.  that's worrisome when it happens, to say the least.

[aldousburbank]

the real wowza is the takeover of the religion by corporation sole--click on the cleanshaven, missionary-dressed Jesus.

http://puremormonism.blogspot.com/2010/08/why-dont-they-like-us.html

  Holy crap!  This pic is almost as disturbing as...




This one!

How big was it Georgy?   

But thanks for the link to that blog Anagrammy, cool stuff, especially this- http://puremormonism.blogspot.com/2010/06/why-im-abandoning-polygamy.html   The wives and I are loading up in the RV later today to head to the courthouse and pick up a stack of divorce petitions.

[MV/Liberace!]

 

a haircut and a real job.

[aldousburbank]

a haircut and a real job.

Straight Jesus, Prozac vendor.  Corporations save!

[aldousburbank]

Apples to apples, man! Compare everything that's been done in Jesus' name, to everything that's been done in Mohammed's name. You won't find too much difference then.

For a Sunday morning-  One of the nicest songs I've ever heard concerning the foibles of "My God is bigger than your God" smack talk religion:

WHEN GOD MADE ME (Neil Young)

Was he thinking about my country,
or the colour of my skin?
Was he thinking about my religion,
and the way I worshipped him?
Did he create just me in his image,
or every living thing?

When God made me.
When God made me.

Was he planning only for believers,
or for those who just had faith?
Did he envision all wars
that were fought in his name?
Did he say there was only one way
to be close to him?

When God made me.
When God made me.

Did he give me the gift of love
to say who I could choose?

When God made me.
When God made me.
When God made me.

Did he give me the gift of voice
so some could silence me?
Did he give me the gift of vision
not knowing what I might see?
Did he give me the gift of compassion
to help my fellow man?

When God made me.
When God made me.
When God made me.

There's cool video of the tune at livevideo.com but it seems to start on its own if posted as HTML- annoying

[anagrammy]

Hall of Shame Quotes from Mormon Leaders

Considering the many new young people on the board, I thought it would be beneficial to update the Hall of Shame quotes.  I was also thinking of organizing them under topics, like the Mormon Cosmology List.  Here is the basic list, feel free to nominate additions for updating:

"Some things that are true are not very useful." - Apostle Boyd K.Packer, "The Mantle is Far, Far Greater Than The Intellect", 1981, BYU Studies vol. 21, no. 3, pp 259-271

"It is wrong to criticize the leaders of the church even if the
criticism is true." - Apostle Dallin Oaks, PBS documentary "The Mormons" 2007

"I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him; but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet." - Prophet Joseph Smith Jr., History of the Church 6:408-409

"How, it may be asked, was this [angel] known to be a bad angel? By the color of his hair;..." Joseph Smith, Jr., Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p 214

"He [Adam] is our Father and our God, and the only God with whom we have to do." - Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 1:50 (April 9, 1852)

"...with regard to the inhabitants of the sun. Do you think it is inhabited? I rather think it is. Do you think there is any life there? No question of it; it was not made in vain." - Brigham Young,Journal of Discourses Vol. 13, p.271

"Behold there are save two churches only; the one is the church of the Lamb of God, and the other is the church of the devil; wherefore, whoso belongeth not to the church of the Lamb of God belongeth to that great church which is the mother of abominations; and she is the whore of all the earth." - Book of Mormon, 1 Nephi 14:10

"God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted Man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens. That is the great secret... It is the first principle of the Gospel to know for a certainty the character of God and to know...that he was once a man like us... " - Joseph Smith, the "King Follett Discourse," Journal of Discourses 6:3-4,Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith 342-345

"The living prophet is more important to us than a dead prophet." -Apostle (later President) Ezra Taft Benson, "Fourteen Fundamentals in Following the Prophets," 1980

[Q. Was God once a man?] "I don't know. ... I wouldn't say that... I don't know that we teach it... We don't know very much about [that]... I don't know a lot about it" - President Gordon B.Hinckley, interview in TIME Magazine, August 4, 1997

"I have a hard time with historians because they idolize the
truth. The truth is not uplifting; it destroys. - Apostle Boyd K.Packer, quoted in Richard Abanes, One Nation Under Gods, p 416

"The dangers [to the Mormon church] I speak of come from the
gay-lesbian movement, the feminist movement (both of which are
relatively new), and the ever-present challenge from the so-called scholars or intellectuals." - Apostle Boyd K. Packer, Talk to the All-Church Coordinating Council, May 18, 1993

"...if any man espouse a virgin, and desire to espouse another, ...he is justified; he cannot commit adultery... And if he have ten virgins given unto him by this law... he [is] justified." Doctrine and Covenants 132:61-62.


"It is BETTER TO DIE in defending one's virtue than to live having lost it without a struggle." Spencer W. Kimball, Miracle of Forgiveness

"Loss of virtue is too great a price to pay even for the preservation of ones life - BETTER DEAD CLEAN, THAN ALIVE UNCLEAN. Many is faithful the Latter-day Saint parent who has sent a son or a daughter on a mission or otherwise out into the world with the direction: 'I WOULD RATHER YOU HAVE COME BACK IN A PINE BOX WITH YOUR VIRTUE THAN RETURN ALIVE WITHOUT IT.'"Apostle Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine (all editions), page 124.


"This morning I want to discuss some of the spiritual lessons we can learn from the process by which a cucumber becomes a pickle. .... I pray this parable of the pickle may help us to evaluate our lives and to better understand the eternal importance of spiritual rebirth. (MISSING REFERENCE)


"I think no more of taking another wife than I do of buying a cow." - Apostle Heber C. Kimball,

"Men, treasure your wives. They are your most valuable possession." Gordon B. Hinckley, April 2007 Conference.

Shortly before his death in 1844, Joseph boasted:

    "If they want a beardless boy to whip all the world, I will get up on the top of a mountain and crow like a rooster: I shall always beat them.... My enemies... think that when they have my spoke under, they will keep me down: but the fools, I will hold on and fly over them.... I will come out on the top at last. I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him; but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet." (History of the Church, Vol. 6, p. 408-409)

In December 1843, Joseph's remarkable ambition was apparent in a petition he sent to Congress. He asked that Nauvoo be made a completely independent federal territory, with the Nauvoo Legion incorporated into the U.S. Army and the mayor of Nauvoo (himself) given power to call out the United States troops whenever necessary. This was accompanied with a prophecy:

    "I prophesied by virtue of the holy Priesthood vested in me, and in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, that, if Congress will not hear our petition and grant us protection, they shall be broken up as a government and God shall damn them, and there shall be nothing left of them - not even a grease spot!"(Millennial Star, Vol. 22 (1860), p. 455. Note that the words in italics were omitted when this passage was reprinted in the History of the Church, Vol. 6, p. 116)

Anagrammy

[Blue Stones]

Anagrammy - Blue Stones here--feel you are noodl'n on Coast Gab

[anagrammy]

Anagrammy - Blue Stones here--feel you are noodl'n on Coast Gab

I am--my laptop has been on the fritz, so I'm catching up.  Read me on George Noory Sucks and Art Bell Quits.  I'll call you tonight.

Anagrammy

[b_dubb]

http://www.bookofmormonbroadway.com/

i believe the time to get tickets is nigh (sp?)

[haloedorchid]

I had some Mormons knock on my door today. I really wonder what percentage of people they actually convert by knocking on their door. It can't be that high.

[anagrammy]

It's not working at all.  People can't identify with suit-wearing bicycle-helmeted 19-year-olds name-tagged as "Elder" claiming to have a message from God.

The new PR firm the LDS, Inc. hired is going for the google-ad approach, so the internet is saturated with mini-bios of admirable, normal people with the following statement following each:  "...and I'm a Mormon!"

We all know PR people see the public as idiots and infinitely malleable, drooling to believe anything they're told on the air.  The truth is that most people see through this.  They see that there's some perception of Mormons as abnormal or they wouldn't be spending the money on a "See us, aren't we normal, even superior?" advertising campaign.

Numbers are shrinking because the days of Jonathan Edwards and his dangling spider are so over.

Anagrammy

[The General]

The new PR firm the LDS, Inc. hired is going for the google-ad approach, so the internet is saturated with mini-bios of admirable, normal people with the following statement following each:  "...and I'm a Mormon!"

Those creep me out.  They really are weird and vague advertisements that aren't conveying any substance other than "Mormons are normal people too."  Yeah, we know, and we don't care.  It's a really pointless waste of money, but I guess with 10% of their loyal members income in their vaults, burning off a little excess cash on a trivial ad campaign is okay.


You'll never see a mainstream Muslim ad campaign like that.  That's what we really need, more moderate muslims speaking out, denouncing the extremists, and declaring themselves to be average Americans.  Maybe the problem is that there is no centralized Muslim authority like with the LDS religion.

[onan]

Maybe the problem is that there is no centralized Muslim authority like with the LDS religion.

Maybe the problem is religion.

[The General]

Maybe the problem is religion.

Religion isn't inherently bad.  Religion has done a lot of good in the world too, you know.  It's just groups of people.
They do bad things, they do good things.

[anagrammy]

Religion gives people an excuse to do bad things, General, that they would never do based on individual conscience.  History is replete with such examples and the "Good" Book honors people who follow command voices in their heads to kill people, i.e, Abraham, but then was tricking him because he (God) grabbed his arm and stopped him, providing an animal instead. 

You see,  the all-seeing, all-knowing God needs to test people's faithfulness instead of just looking in their heart, like a proper all-knowing God should and as we are told he does to the faithful this very day, because he lives in their hearts, as well as in all the universe.

The fact...FACT, General... that evil men have used religion to kill, torture, rape and enslave might give you a clue.  It has gone on in the past and is going on right now.  Hopefully, if there is no Diety to reward with unlimited virgins in the next life, murder-for-the-good-of-all might be despised worldwide and the word "martyr" (at least in the religious sense) would cease to be.  The world would be a safer place.

Anagrammy

[b_dubb]

religion sets believers up for self-aggrandizement.  which creates conflict with non-believers.  which creates conflict.  and that's why religion is the problem

you're welcome

[anagrammy]

religion sets believers up for self-aggrandizement.  which creates conflict with non-believers.  which creates conflict.  and that's why religion is the problem

you're welcome

And thank you!  You know, it has bothered me all my life, even when I was religious, that the Jews were the "chosen" people.  Didn't seem fair for an eternal all-knowing Father-Loves-Us-All-Equally to have favorites.  But you can't even say that these days without being deemed anti-semetic. 

It's just like you say, religion sets people up for self-aggrandizement.  I have nothing against Jews, but why do they have to claim to be "chosen."  Why can't they just be part of the people lump on this planet, like the rest of us.

Anagrammy

[The General]

Religion gives people an excuse to do bad things, General, that they would never do based on individual conscience.  History is replete with such examples and the "Good" Book honors people who follow command voices in their heads to kill people, i.e, Abraham, but then was tricking him because he (God) grabbed his arm and stopped him, providing an animal instead. 

You see,  the all-seeing, all-knowing God needs to test people's faithfulness instead of just looking in their heart, like a proper all-knowing God should and as we are told he does to the faithful this very day, because he lives in their hearts, as well as in all the universe.

The fact...FACT, General... that evil men have used religion to kill, torture, rape and enslave might give you a clue.  It has gone on in the past and is going on right now.  Hopefully, if there is no Diety to reward with unlimited virgins in the next life, murder-for-the-good-of-all might be despised worldwide and the word "martyr" (at least in the religious sense) would cease to be.  The world would be a safer place.

Anagrammy

Evil people do evil things, religious or not.  Conversely true for good people.
But people aren't inherently good or bad.  They have values, and their values dictate their behavior, or should.  I'm not particularly religious, nor belong to any religion, and I can think of many many evils done in the name of God, and I can think of just as many good things done in the name of God as well.  It's human nature to blame, not religion.  That's my two cents.  Just think of the estimated 100 million people murdered for the cause of communism in the 20th century alone, and you realize that Evil doesn't need a God attached to it.

[anagrammy]

Aggressive godlessness and persecution of the god-believing is religion, is it not?  I consider the stance of Communism against God to be God-centered, therefore, a religion of belief in the state as Supreme.

Does that make sense to you, General?

Anagrammy

[onan]

Yup people are bad... not all people... and not all the time. I am sure Hitler had some people that liked him.
Yup people are good but not all the time. I am sure even Mr. Rogers pissed off somebody, somewhere, at sometime.

I am not saying religion is the root of all bad things. I am saying religion creates a sense of moral superiority. Hence, jihads, stoning women, clitirectomies, hence burning at the stake, hence no dancing.

Religion is the reason George Carlin testified in front of the supreme court because fuck shouldn't be heard on the radio.

Religion is the reason we had the dark ages and the person that came up with the concept of zero was killed.

Religion is the reason homosexuals are treated like subhumans.

I could go on but I think my point is made.

[The General]

Aggressive godlessness and persecution of the god-believing is religion, is it not?  I consider the stance of Communism against God to be God-centered, therefore, a religion of belief in the state as Supreme.

Does that make sense to you, General?

Anagrammy

Ok, but, I would consider it statism, but I guess it's just semantics at this point.
I much prefer naming things by their proper name.
Interesting point though. 

I am not saying religion is the root of all bad things. I am saying religion creates a sense of moral superiority. Hence, jihads, stoning women, clitirectomies, hence burning at the stake, hence no dancing.

Yeah, it's a big problem.  I agree.  But people would do it regardless of religion eventually is all I'm saying.
Religion properly done should create a sense of humility and compassion.  Unfortunately it doesn't happen often enough. 


My personal problem with religion is that I can't bring myself to believe in fairy tales about immaculate conception and such.   I really kind of wish that I could.  I think it can really be a force for good in people's lives if properly done.  More so than secularism I would like to think.

[onan]

Ok, but, I would consider it statism, but I guess it's just semantics at this point.
I much prefer naming things by their proper name.
Interesting point though. 



Yeah, it's a big problem.  I agree.  But people would do it regardless of religion eventually is all I'm saying.
Religion properly done should create a sense of humility and compassion.  Unfortunately it doesn't happen often enough. 


My personal problem with religion is that I can't bring myself to believe in fairy tales about immaculate conception and such.   I really kind of wish that I could.  I think it can really be a force for good in people's lives if properly done.  More so than secularism I would like to think.

To me, well, I just do not know... I pretty much think I am right. Belief in any god is delusional. The only reason people are not treated for that delusion is, it is commonplace. But when any person of the cloth can tell me the difference between religion and fantasy I will reconsider my position.

[b_dubb]

now ... this image seems really familiar

[anagrammy]

To me, well, I just do not know... I pretty much think I am right. Belief in any god is delusional. The only reason people are not treated for that delusion is, it is commonplace. But when any person of the cloth can tell me the difference between religion and fantasy I will reconsider my position.

You make an extremely interesting point with this comment, Onan.  Last year when the Elizabeth Smart trial was FINALLY on, after eight years of postponement, the issue came up that they could not claim insanity and get him off because the things he was asserting are all part of the Mormon religion: 

*thinks he speaks for god and has been chosen (they have one too)
*thinks he hears voices (their prophet is called "prophet, seer and revelator and they believe their religion is superior because they have modern revelation, i.e., voice of god to his people in modern times, liketh in days of olde.)
*believes he has a right to follow god's auditory command hallucinations even if its against the law (they believe in polygamy and consider it necessary for salvation D&C 132, however, they don't practice it just because it's illegal)
*believes god's laws are superior to man's laws (i.e., their religious beliefs vs. the law of the land got them in tons of trouble for lying about polygamy)

What's so intriguing about all of this is the fact that one set of beliefs where it's commonplace, is perfectly fine.  But in another culture, it's diagnosable insanity.  For example, imagine Christianity being described to a Tibetan monk this way:

"The Western practitioner believes in a Supreme Being who is a triad god composed of three people:  God1, a spirit; God2, his son a man; and God3, a spirit like the wind.  The second god's flesh and blood are ritually consumed after the revealing of character shortcomings called "sins" and ritual acts applied for the atonement of those sins to God1."

Anagrammy

[onan]

You make an extremely interesting point with this comment, Onan.  Last year when the Elizabeth Smart trial was FINALLY on, after eight years of postponement, the issue came up that they could not claim insanity and get him off because the things he was asserting are all part of the Mormon religion: 

*thinks he speaks for god and has been chosen (they have one too)
*thinks he hears voices (their prophet is called "prophet, seer and revelator and they believe their religion is superior because they have modern revelation, i.e., voice of god to his people in modern times, liketh in days of olde.)
*believes he has a right to follow god's auditory command hallucinations even if its against the law (they believe in polygamy and consider it necessary for salvation D&C 132, however, they don't practice it just because it's illegal)
*believes god's laws are superior to man's laws (i.e., their religious beliefs vs. the law of the land got them in tons of trouble for lying about polygamy)

What's so intriguing about all of this is the fact that one set of beliefs where it's commonplace, is perfectly fine.  But in another culture, it's diagnosable insanity.  For example, imagine Christianity being described to a Tibetan monk this way:

"The Western practitioner believes in a Supreme Being who is a triad god composed of three people:  God1, a spirit; God2, his son a man; and God3, a spirit like the wind.  The second god's flesh and blood are ritually consumed after the revealing of character shortcomings called "sins" and ritual acts applied for the atonement of those sins to God1."

Anagrammy

And to me that is the danger of any type of "group think". When one can claim some mystical moral high ground, others had better look for cover. But religion has really cornered the market on positions of superiority without any substantiation other than it is what they believe because of some cryptic and most likely misinterpreted script.

[anagrammy]

Amen.

[aldousburbank]

Japanese crisis inspires U.S. Mormons to undergo survival training
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/04/04/japanese-crisis-inspires-u-s-mormons-to-undergo-survival-training/

[anagrammy]

Mormons believe the tithepayers among them will not be burned at the second coming (and I guess God will just fry the rest of their asses)

From Mormon scriptures Doctrine & Covenants 64:23-24 (i.e., crawled out of the dark mind of Joseph Smith):

"23 Behold, now it is called today until the coming of the Son of Man, and verily it is a day of sacrifice, and a day for the tithing of my people; for he that is tithed shall not be burned at his coming.

"24 For after today cometh the burningâ€"this is speaking after the manner of the Lordâ€"for verily I say, tomorrow all the proud and they that do wickedly shall be as stubble; and I will burn them up, for I am the Lord of Hosts; and I will not spare any that remain in Babylon."

And in case you try to use the "that was then, this is now" excuse, here's a recent confirmation from a General Conference talk by General Authority Russell M. Nelson from this month:

"To develop enduring faith, an enduring commitment to be a full-tithe payer is essential. Initially it takes faith to tithe. Then the tithe payer develops more faith to the point that tithing becomes a precious privilege. Tithing is an ancient law from God. He made a promise to His children that He would open 'the windows of heaven, and pour … out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.' Not only that, tithing will keep your name enrolled among the people of God and protect you in 'the day of vengeance and burning.'"

http://lds.org/general-conference/print/2011/04/face-the-future-with-faith/?lang=eng

It's like having David Koresh followers among us, ya gotta ask WTF?

Anagrammy