Started by noodlehead.crucified.c2c, June 25, 2009, 05:28:29 PM
Quote from: Evil Twin Of Zen on October 05, 2011, 05:55:37 PMSteve Jobs
Quote from: b_dubb on October 05, 2011, 06:58:49 PMhttp://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/10/05/jobs-apple-co-founder-is-dead/?hpI don't think this belongs here as Jobs was not a celebrity but a tech visionary
Quote from: EastCoastLady on October 05, 2011, 08:30:29 PMLet's compromise: a tech visionary with celebrity status.
Quote from: Flaxen Hegemony on October 05, 2011, 10:01:31 PMAbsolutely. Jobs was a rock star to the tech-consuming public. He was given far too much credit for Apple's initial success in the 70's, but his hard-driving leadership style will be taught in business schools for years. Now that he's gone, it will be interesting to see a more even-handed treatment of his accomplishments at Apple. Was Apple's phenomenal success a product of his pretty much being a prick, or in spite of it? That likely isn't speaking ill of the dead, as Steve said he was a prick and was proud of the fact.Then again, some say that the upper echelons of the corporate world are the exclusive domain of the sociopath. Anyone with a shred of conscience or ethical hesitation would be eaten alive well before reaching the top.Anyway, R.I.P. Steve.
Quote from: Michael Vandeven on November 29, 2011, 01:03:12 PMpatrice oneal. dead. age 41. a really funny, smart man. that sucks.
Quote from: The General on December 16, 2011, 11:17:28 AMHitchens- I never understood how such a smart man could admire mass murdering thugs like Lenin, Mao, and Che- meanwhile writing a book condemning Mother Theresa. Sure, be an atheist, you'll get no argument from me... But don't judge people by their motives, judge them by their behavior. I'll take Mother Theresa over Lenin any day.
Quote from: Silent on December 16, 2011, 12:53:08 PMI'm familiar with his criticisms of Mother Theresa but not with the admiration of those you've named. Are you talking about small comments made or something larger from one of his books? I'm just interested to see exactly what he liked about them.The best I could find with Google was one quote about Lenin praising one particular thing.
Quote from: The General on December 16, 2011, 01:12:33 PMHe was a self described Marxist. He regarded both Lenin and Trotsky as great men. He called Che "A role model." He was surprised later in life "to see Mao Zedong relegated like a despot of antiquity."http://www.pbs.org/heavenonearth/interviews_hitchens.htmlhttp://www.guardian.co.uk/film/2004/jul/11/features.reviewhttp://www.goodreads.com/quotes/tag/mao-zedong
Quote from: Silent on December 16, 2011, 02:18:34 PMInteresting links, thanks for those.On Mao I think you misread what he was saying. The full quote is:"Call no man lucky until he is dead, but there have been moment of rare satisfaction in the often random and fragmented life of the radical freelance scribbler. I have lived to see Ronald Reagan called â€œa useful idiot for Kremlin propagandaâ€ by his former idolators; to see the General Secretary of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union regarded with fear and suspicion by the Communist Party of Czechoslovakia (which blacked out an interview with MiloÅ¡ Forman broadcast live on Moscow TV); to see Mao Zedong relegated like a despot of antiquity."I don't see how in any way that is saying something good about Mao.Saying he called Che a role model and leaving it at that is taking it out of context too, unless he goes into more details in another article. I'm not saying by any means I agree with everything Hitchens said, far from that, but I don't think you're fairly quoting him.
Quote from: The General on December 16, 2011, 02:41:10 PMWe could split hairs all day. All I'm saying is that he was prone to be an apologist for Marxism, overlooking it's consequences, while castigating selfless people like Mother Theresa because of her motives. I like Hitchens, he was funny and bright, but it takes a morally confused person to think that way.
Quote from: Silent on December 16, 2011, 03:01:05 PMFor sure, we can agree on everything you said there. Morally confused sums up a lot of his views as far as I understand them. There are conflicting quotes from him on Marxism and socialism all over the place. Marxism, Lenin, and Trotsky aren't something I know enough about to even have a valid opinion on, let alone critiquing someone elses opinion. I hope I didn't sound confrontational for the sake of it. Notice most of your post I didn't address because either I agreed or am too ignorant on the topic to say anything half intelligent.