Minneapolis/St.paul riots

[K_Dubb]

Post it then.

https://codes.findlaw.com/ga/title-21-elections/ga-code-sect-21-2-408.html

[Dr. MD MD]

I agree with you there.  This is not a serious effort to prove fraud.  If lame-o me can follow the numbers and see that the President's claim for over a million manufactured PA absentee ballots was based on the numbers for the primary rather than the general election, it's reasonable to conclude that the whole thing is a circus, from the top down.  Election fraud will now be another tenet of Trumpism that will be forever discredited by association, because he isn't making a serious case.

I don't have any problem with shaking the tree to see if anything falls loose, but this is just a clown show.

The only clown show is the attempted cover up of it.

[Dr. MD MD]

https://codes.findlaw.com/ga/title-21-elections/ga-code-sect-21-2-408.html

No, you cut and paste where it says that.

[WOTR]

No, I have questions about that story.  Starting with whether it was normal to get ballots out from under the tables like that (yes you can see it in your own vid) and whether GA law requires observers be present for running ballots through the machine (no, not from what I can tell) and whether the observers just left when everyone else did because it was late and they had already seen the ballots to be counted opened and put in their boxes and shoved under the tables (I'm thinking probably).  Have you heard from any of those people in that room?  I'm thinking not.

But if you've seen enough to run around shouting fraud, knock yourself out. I hope they find twenty pounds of fraud, like the wine lady said.

If you watched the hearings, the lawyer says that no, it was not normal for the ballots to be under the table. The table was placed there at 8:30 and because of the short time the tape was in their possession, they were unable to find exactly when the ballots were placed under the table (it would require hours of real time watching as they did not spot it by fast forwarding through.)

The biggest reason they said it could be overturned is that while Georgia law does not state that observers and the media HAVE to be present, it does state that they must be ALLOWED to. The media and observers were shuffled out of the room around 21:30 and told that they were closing for the night. Then 23:00 the suitcases come out and are run until 1:00. Expert says 3 machines would do a maximum of 18,000 ballots in that time if run perfectly with no jams.

Lawyer says there is a sworn affidavit by an observer that he was told that counting continued and went back shortly after 1:00 to find that they had just left. Yes, (supposedly) they were told that it was shut down for the night- "come back at 8:00 tomorrow." And yes, the tape (apparently) shows it shut down for around a half hour while everybody left until the 4 remaining people (including the woman who told the observers to leave) decided to fire up the counting machines.

Is 18,000 ballots sufficient to overturn the election? Maybe not. But if it is true, it does need to be looked into as well as how to prevent this in the future. If it was not fraud this time, it easily could be next. I actually commented to a friend that while it may not have been fraud- if I had seen the tapes and heard the testimony in a banana republic, I absolutely would conclude that it was ballot stuffing and a sham. But still, maybe it was nothing?

[K_Dubb]

No, you cut and paste where it says that.

It doesn't say that they are required to be present.  That is the point.

[Dr. MD MD]

It doesn't say that they are required to be present.  That is the point.

Rhetoric. Like WOTR said, they have to be allowed and they weren’t. Invalid election.

[K_Dubb]

If you watched the hearings, the lawyer says that no, it was not normal for the ballots to be under the table. The table was placed there at 8:30 and because of the short time the tape was in their possession, they were unable to find exactly when the ballots were placed under the table (it would require hours of real time watching as they did not spot it by fast forwarding through.)

The biggest reason they said it could be overturned is that while Georgia law does not state that observers and the media HAVE to be present, it does state that they must be ALLOWED to. The media and observers were shuffled out of the room around 21:30 and told that they were closing for the night. Then 23:00 the suitcases come out and are run until 1:00. Expert says 3 machines would do a maximum of 18,000 ballots in that time if run perfectly with no jams.

Lawyer says there is a sworn affidavit by an observer that he was told that counting continued and went back shortly after 1:00 to find that they had just left. Yes, (supposedly) they were told that it was shut down for the night- "come back at 8:00 tomorrow." And yes, the tape (apparently) shows it shut down for around a half hour while everybody left until the 4 remaining people (including the woman who told the observers to leave) decided to fire up the counting machines.

Is 18,000 ballots sufficient to overturn the election? Maybe not. But if it is true, it does need to be looked into as well as how to prevent this in the future. If it was not fraud this time, it easily could be next. I actually commented to a friend that while it may not have been fraud- if I had seen the tapes and heard the testimony in a banana republic, I absolutely would conclude that it was ballot stuffing and a sham. But still, maybe it was nothing?

The lawyers say all kinds of things.  In the beginning of the footage MD posted you can see them getting stuff out from under the tables in broad daylight with people around.  It does look weird if someone tells you it is suspicious but, seeing them say it's everything from ballot stuffing to data tampering and watching each claim collapse, I'm not gonna get all excited about it.

I hope they thumbscrew everybody in that room but neither side will wait for that; their conclusions have already been reached.

[K_Dubb]

Rhetoric. Like WOTR said, they have to be allowed and they weren’t. Invalid election.

Must be allowed is not the same as required to be present.  They can come and go as they please, and they went.

[Dr. MD MD]

Must be allowed is not the same as required to be present.  They can come and go as they please, and they went.

No, they were sent away. That’s different.

[K_Dubb]

No, they were sent away. That’s different.

Have you heard from any of the people in that room?

[albrecht]

https://codes.findlaw.com/ga/title-21-elections/ga-code-sect-21-2-408.html

One thing I don't "git" is that provision "using photographic or other electronic monitoring or recording devices," in this modern age. Where the government, and many, if not most, businesses- and even home owners now- record and have cams why these politicians and some agencies are always so afraid to allow recordings of things? No longer can "cost" be an excuse. And the potential civil rights issues I would say are moot, at this point. But yet certain agencies, FBI for example, won't record interviews but rely on 302s.

And like this provision (common in many States) for voting security say: "no recording." Why? Not that an individual's vote should be "on cam"- though my Leftist friends often said after the Trump election that voting should NOT be private and that the Australian Ballot, that is privacy in voting, should be abolished. "We should know where people stand, fucking fascists!" But the counting system and process. Why not allow? Why be afraid of openness, even Soros funds the "Open Society Institute?'

[Dr. MD MD]

Have you heard from any of the people in that room?

I believe people from that precinct gave testimony as to the obvious fraud and corruption afoot.

[Dr. MD MD]

One thing I don't "git" is that provision "using photographic or other electronic monitoring or recording devices," in this modern age. Where the government, and many, if not most, businesses- and even home owners now- record and have cams why these politicians and some agencies are always so afraid to allow recordings of things? No longer can "cost" be an excuse. And the potential civil rights issues I would say are moot, at this point. But yet certain agencies, FBI for example, won't record interviews but rely on 302s.

And like this provision (common in many States) for voting security say: "no recording." Why? Not that an individual's vote should be "on cam"- though my Leftist friends often said after the Trump election that voting should NOT be private and that the Australian Ballot, that is privacy in voting, should be abolished. "We should know where people stand, fucking fascists!" But the counting system and process. Why not allow? Why be afraid of openness, even Soros funds the "Open Society Institute?'

It’s easier to get away with cheating that way, silly.  :

[K_Dubb]

One thing I don't "git" is that provision "using photographic or other electronic monitoring or recording devices," in this modern age. Where the government, and many, if not most, businesses- and even home owners now- record and have cams why these politicians and some agencies are always so afraid to allow recordings of things? No longer can "cost" be an excuse. And the potential civil rights issues I would say are moot, at this point. But yet certain agencies, FBI for example, won't record interviews but rely on 302s.

And like this provision (common in many States) for voting security say: "no recording." Why? Not that an individual's vote should be "on cam"- though my Leftist friends often said after the Trump election that voting should NOT be private and that the Australian Ballot, that is privacy in voting, should be abolished. "We should know where people stand, fucking fascists!" But the counting system and process. Why not allow? Why be afraid of openness, even Soros funds the "Open Society Institute?'

Haha of course it is not an issue with recording per se, just who owns it and can decide to release it, or not.

[K_Dubb]

I believe people from that precinct gave testimony as to the obvious fraud and corruption afoot.

I wonder why we have not heard from the Republican observer who was sent away?  You think he would be out front to prove this sort of thing, if it happened as you say.

[WOTR]

It doesn't say that they are required to be present.  That is the point.

But they have to be allowed. Kicking them out and continuing for two hours in a closed room with no observation is a major breech.

There is also some BS about signature checks and what they matched it against. I could break it down- but it would be long winded. Suffice to say that it comes down to them not being done how required (checked against two sources). Instead they could be checked against only the signature on the absentee ballot request (but that one was supposed to be checked against the registration card.)

Fishy. Not the end of the world. What was interesting is that past elections had a 6% absentee rejection rate- this time? .02%. Now, you can argue that means that people finally had a voice and that the rejection rate used to be BS and actually remove valid ballots. But that is a huge difference... Either they were too strict and were disenfranchising voters in the past, or they were too lenient this time and it is insecure. Pick your poison.

[albrecht]

I wonder why we have not heard from the Republican observer who was sent away?  You think he would be out front to prove this sort of thing, if it happened as you say.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-bush-body-idUSTRE7023S220110103

https://www.nytimes.com/1996/04/30/us/ex-director-of-cia-disappears-while-canoeing-on-choppy-river.html

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/crime-scene/paul-duggan/-the-wife-of-a.html

https://www.kxl.com/wife-of-candidate-for-oregon-governor-hit-and-killed-in-salem/

https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/crime/bs-md-ci-cr-jonathan-luna-coroner-records-20200211-gygcnqtblrcmto2g2rrcwskbmu-story.html

https://www.krem.com/article/news/local/spokane-county/marshalldeathforwared/293-1dbdc095-72ea-4e25-bdac-8560a5e59be1

https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/local/daily/march99/starbucks070897.htm 

https://abcnews.go.com/US/police-release-photos-bush-cardiologist-suspect-moments-fatal/story?id=56756504

I got more.... 

I'm not saying but....

[K_Dubb]

But they have to be allowed. Kicking them out and continuing for two hours in a closed room with no observation is a major breech.

There is also some BS about signature checks and what they matched it against. I could break it down- but it would be long winded. Suffice to say that it comes down to them not being done how required (checked against two sources). Instead they could be checked against only the signature on the absentee ballot request (but that one was supposed to be checked against the registration card.)

Fishy. Not the end of the world. What was interesting is that past elections had a 6% absentee rejection rate- this time? .02%. Now, you can argue that means that people finally had a voice and that the rejection rate used to be BS and actually remove valid ballots. But that is a huge difference... Either they were too strict and were disenfranchising voters in the past, or they were too lenient this time and it is insecure. Pick your poison.

It is fishy.  The problem is that, with a secret ballot, it is not possible to uncount it except by batch, I suppose, which would potentially disenfranchise legitimate voters which the courts are loath to do.  The time for challenging how things like signature verification were done was before they were counted.  After you lost, it is too easy to see your motivation.

I hope they tighten things up but this will just be like the 3 mil illegal voters in CA in 2016 where Trump set up a commission and everyone quietly forgot.  It is not a serious effort.

[WOTR]

Have you heard from any of the people in that room?

I wonder why we have not heard from the Republican observer who was sent away?  You think he would be out front to prove this sort of thing, if it happened as you say.

Let me help you. Here is the affidavit of one of the people in the room. https://beta.documentcloud.org/documents/20420331-mitchell-harrison-affidavit

If you want to read it, you will find that that at approximately 10:30 p.m. on Nov. 3 in an absentee ballot counting room in State Farm Arena, Atlanta, a woman shouted at everyone to stop working and return the next morning at 8:30 a.m.

You will also find that Harrison alleges that he tried to confirm the order with Regina Waller, Fulton County’s director of public affairs for the election. However, she refused to answer the questions...

So, now you have heard from at least what one of the people in the room swore in an affidavit happened. I believe that a couple of the news stations confirmed this. But you will have to search for your own links.

[albrecht]

But they have to be allowed. Kicking them out and continuing for two hours in a closed room with no observation is a major breech.

There is also some BS about signature checks and what they matched it against. I could break it down- but it would be long winded. Suffice to say that it comes down to them not being done how required (checked against two sources). Instead they could be checked against only the signature on the absentee ballot request (but that one was supposed to be checked against the registration card.)

Fishy. Not the end of the world. What was interesting is that past elections had a 6% absentee rejection rate- this time? .02%. Now, you can argue that means that people finally had a voice and that the rejection rate used to be BS and actually remove valid ballots. But that is a huge difference... Either they were too strict and were disenfranchising voters in the past, or they were too lenient this time and it is insecure. Pick your poison.

When I brought up the signature stuff that I was thinking about during the first Corona-Chan Rulz selection but decided to actually ask because no crowds or line during the run-off the other day and they didn't care because the actual item, the huge bond, had passed.

https://bellgab.com/index.php?topic=13226.msg1445722#msg1445722

[K_Dubb]

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-bush-body-idUSTRE7023S220110103

https://www.nytimes.com/1996/04/30/us/ex-director-of-cia-disappears-while-canoeing-on-choppy-river.html

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/crime-scene/paul-duggan/-the-wife-of-a.html

https://www.kxl.com/wife-of-candidate-for-oregon-governor-hit-and-killed-in-salem/

https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/crime/bs-md-ci-cr-jonathan-luna-coroner-records-20200211-gygcnqtblrcmto2g2rrcwskbmu-story.html

https://www.krem.com/article/news/local/spokane-county/marshalldeathforwared/293-1dbdc095-72ea-4e25-bdac-8560a5e59be1

https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/local/daily/march99/starbucks070897.htm 

https://abcnews.go.com/US/police-release-photos-bush-cardiologist-suspect-moments-fatal/story?id=56756504

I got more.... 

I'm not saying but....

I think it is far more likely that he was not brought forward because he would not help the President's case.  You know that is how lawyers work.

[Dr. MD MD]

But they have to be allowed. Kicking them out and continuing for two hours in a closed room with no observation is a major breech.

There is also some BS about signature checks and what they matched it against. I could break it down- but it would be long winded. Suffice to say that it comes down to them not being done how required (checked against two sources). Instead they could be checked against only the signature on the absentee ballot request (but that one was supposed to be checked against the registration card.)

Fishy. Not the end of the world. What was interesting is that past elections had a 6% absentee rejection rate- this time? .02%. Now, you can argue that means that people finally had a voice and that the rejection rate used to be BS and actually remove valid ballots. But that is a huge difference... Either they were too strict and were disenfranchising voters in the past, or they were too lenient this time and it is insecure. Pick your poison.

Don’t bother. He drank the Koolaid, obviously.

[Dr. MD MD]

I wonder why we have not heard from the Republican observer who was sent away?  You think he would be out front to prove this sort of thing, if it happened as you say.

Spin! Spin! Spin!

[K_Dubb]

Let me help you. Here is the affidavit of one of the people in the room. https://beta.documentcloud.org/documents/20420331-mitchell-harrison-affidavit

If you want to read it, you will find that that at approximately 10:30 p.m. on Nov. 3 in an absentee ballot counting room in State Farm Arena, Atlanta, a woman shouted at everyone to stop working and return the next morning at 8:30 a.m.

You will also find that Harrison alleges that he tried to confirm the order with Regina Waller, Fulton County’s director of public affairs for the election. However, she refused to answer the questions...

So, now you have heard from at least what one of the people in the room swore in an affidavit happened. I believe that a couple of the news stations confirmed this. But you will have to search for your own links.

He does not say he was told to leave.  "...we along with the Fox News Crew left..."

[WOTR]

When I brought up the signature stuff that I was thinking about during the first Corona-Chan Rulz selection but decided to actually ask because no crowds or line during the run-off the other day and they didn't care because the actual item, the huge bond, had passed.

https://bellgab.com/index.php?topic=13226.msg1445722#msg1445722

Hmmm. Too bad more people didn't ask some questions. I really don't know if the election was "stolen." Only that there were some actions taken that really would be judged differently if it were Russia, Cuba or North Korea.

[K_Dubb]

Spin! Spin! Spin!

I'm getting thinner!

[Dr. MD MD]

He does not say he was told to leave.  "...we along with the Fox News Crew left..."

Jesus! The people running it have already said they were sent home based on the false story they were shutting down for the night when in fact they continued for hours. :

[Jackstar]

And you’re a lawyer?

A world gets liberated, and they all just come boiling out of the woodwork. No wonder Grapefruit came back. Sudden appearances of numerous lawyers play a strong role in Native American prophecy.

[K_Dubb]

When I brought up the signature stuff that I was thinking about during the first Corona-Chan Rulz selection but decided to actually ask because no crowds or line during the run-off the other day and they didn't care because the actual item, the huge bond, had passed.

https://bellgab.com/index.php?topic=13226.msg1445722#msg1445722

Come on you know this.  Voting is a right you assert unchallenged, unless there is good cause.  Your mask and squeegee finger are unlikely to give them any cause at all but, on the whole the system is designed to accomodate anyone who walks up.  I don't particularly like how loose it is but the courts have interpreted it this way to get rid of poll taxes and literacy tests and paying fines and other obstacles used historically to disenfranchise certain populations.

[K_Dubb]

Jesus! The people running it have already said they were sent home based on the false story they were shutting down for the night when in fact they continued for hours. :

Unless the blonde braided lady screamed Get Out he should have STOOD HIS GROUND!  What a lame patriot.