Midnight In The Desert

[Roswells, Art]

So Heather killed kennedy now? Lol you guys should make a kennedy thread and duke it out there.

I like reading people's different viewpoints of the assassination myself. It could be it's own thread but it's certainly better than what this thread has been like lately.

[Value Of Pi]

A great quote from that clip:

“I know that millions and millions of people in this country believe there was a conspiracy. People want to believe that the world is not that random.  That things are not that chaotic. That something larger, bigger, was at stake here.  Because I think it’s very difficult for them to accept the idea that someone as inconsequential as Oswald could have killed someone as consequential as Kennedy.”
- Robert Dallek, author “An Unfinished Life”

I see that principle at work everywhere:  The Oklahoma City federal building bombing, the 9/11 attacks, the Sandy Hook Massacre.  Even here in the microcosm, with all of the people who refuse to believe that Art's stalker forced him off the air.

But I think I've grown even more cynical than Mr. Dallek, because all of those conspiracy theories appear to be a subset of an even broader group of conspiracy theories which also includes things like the Moon Landing conspiracy and the Flat Earth conspiracy:  people don't just want to find a larger explanation for the ugly stupid reality that one worthless schmuck with a gun can fuck up everything - they're also driven by the arrogant need to feel superior, to be smarter than everyone else who is "duped" by the factual evidence.  Ultimately, it's that egoistical compulsion that enslaves people's minds even regarding the central questions of our existence, and seduces them to embrace things like Creationism and other forms of radical fundamentalism.

So when you bite right down to the marrow, the reason the world is such a brutal, senseless, confused catastrophe, is that even stupid people are driven by the eclipsing conceit to feel that they're smarter than everyone else, even when every fact testifies against them.

Excellent post and the Dallek quote is exactly how I see the whole JFK conspiracy phenomenon. Your broader point is also very well taken although I don't see a lot of cynicism in Dallek's quote or what you have said. Being realistic about people doesn't necessarily mean you're being cynical.

[Chronaut]

I know but think one needs to be precise because there are conspiracies (even 'prison planet' kind of things sometimes. Read any history and one will find countless examples of royal intrigue, criminal conspiracies, price-fixing conspiracies, organized crime, etc etc.) A vast global, all-encompassing one? Doubtful. But do governments, royals, big companies, organized crime figures, terrorists, etc conspire? All the time and it is frequently prosecuted (when caught) though usually just a slap on the wrist considering the amount of money involved (LIBOR, BBCI, and banks laundering money for terrorists and cartels quickly come to mind.) Stuff like LIBOR are the conspiracies people should be concerned about.

Yeah and that's what troubles me about the "conspiracy du jour" stuff that I'm seeing everywhere - it smokescreens the real and terrifying corruption that we're actually up against.  While people are screaming bloody murder about Obama "invading" Texas, we've got the House and Senate fast-tracking the TPP, basically selling every country on the Pacific Rim down the river to make some more goddamn campaign donation money.

[albrecht]

Oh for god's sake.  I specified the OKC bombing, 9/11, and the Sandy Hook massacre - tons of people actually think those were government false flag operations.

Obviously the government all-too-frequently participates in conspiracies:  MK Ultra, the Tuskegee experiments, the massive secret surveillance programs, plus the covert online psysops that I'm always carrying on about.  We have actual evidence about all of that stuff.

But these days an alarming number of people think that Everything nightmarish that's reported in the news is some kind of insidious government operation.  The whole stupid "Jade Helm is Obama's invasion of Texas" rubbish, I've even heard people claiming that Sandy Hook never happened - that it was all staged and the grieving parents were paid actors.  People seem eager to buy that bullshit so they can think they're "ahead of the curve."  Pathetic.  And it only undermines the rightful outrage that should be focused on the real and damaging conspiracies, like the House of Representatives kneeling before guys like Jamie Dimon with their mouths wide open.

The government (and some non-governmental orgs I've heard) had people and informants in Elohim City prior to OKC. I think of all of "them" OKC is the one that I have some suspicions about and think more involved than just the 2 that were caught. I'm not saying 'inside job' but just that others involved.

It is also important to note that AFTER the fact it is easy to place blame. "You had a tip" "you had the intel" "an informer warned you" and so forth. Imagine how many "warnings" police and government get daily. To separate the wheat from the chaff etc can be hard. Simply because someone (either in or outside of) warned of something that happened doesn't mean the government "was involved" or "covered it up."

ps: I agree with you. The uninteresting conspiracies, like LIBOR, front-running, money laundering, insider trading, commodity futures scams, etc are the ones that REALLY effect people and are not covered, much. And, not punished, much (considering the amount of fines versus profits.)

[Robert]

It's just that the timing doesn't line up with the existing film of the event. Connally, apparently unharmed, turns around after the first shot hit Kennedy to see what happened and it's only then that you see him all of a sudden grimace because a DIFFERENT bullet just hit him. Then the fatal head shot. It's amazing the lengths people will go to to prove this crazy lone gunman theory. 

The 1st shot missed everyone.  2nd shot, still aimed for Connally, got 'em both.  3rd shot, this one from Hickey, not aimed at anyone, got Kennedy in the head.

[Value Of Pi]

I'm starting to question your intelligence Dr. MD MD.

Obviously opposing viewpoints and opinions are not fraud.  And ancient books written and edited by dozens of people aren't relevant to the discussion because even if we could prove an intent to commit fraud, we can't charge dead people.

Perhaps you're deflecting because you don't know the case.  "Dr." Jonathan "Reed" is a professional con artist who intentionally invented a fake story to make money selling books and tickets.  He spoke about his plan to witnesses who soon realized that everything he had told them about himself (even to his fiancee, her daughter, and all of their friends) was a fabricated lie.  Nearly everyone who knows him would like to testify against him in a court of law.  Everything about his story can be proven to be a lie in a court of law.

It's clearly a case of fraud, not simply of people honestly seeing things differently.  He even recruited other people to perpetuate the fraud for money, which raises conspiracy questions.  We know what they said and who they said they are, and who they actually are.

So we can prove intent, we can prove the facts of the fraud, and we can prove the damages.  I don't see why that should be legal, yet Bernie Madoff is in jail.  It's the same crime using different tools:  securities vs. books and tickets.

Here's one difference. When you buy a book, there's no contract between buyer and author, and no obligation on the author's part, to tell the truth. Trying to enforce truth-telling in the marketplace of ideas would be totally impractical and holding the author liable for lying would normally be unconstitutional, IMO. With financial fraud, there are specific laws at work as well as a moral, ethical and legal obligation not to steal money or other assets from clients or the public.

[albrecht]

Yeah and that's what troubles me about the "conspiracy du jour" stuff that I'm seeing everywhere - it smokescreens the real and terrifying corruption that we're actually up against.  While people are screaming bloody murder about Obama "invading" Texas, we've got the House and Senate fast-tracking the TPP, basically selling every country on the Pacific Rim down the river to make some more goddamn campaign donation money.

Call me a "its a conspiracy conspiracist" but I think some of the C2C, Alex, Icke, Art, Bill Cooper, etc etc are precisely what "they" want.  If you want to cover up a conspiracy what better than to make "everything" a conspiracy in some people's minds and have people throw the baby out with the bathwater. We focus on UFOs (while crazy drones and planes are manufactured.) We focus on "Sandyhook actors," or some crap, while LIBOR is being rigged or the anti-democratic TPP is put through eliminating both national sovereignty but also personal rights. We bitch about NSA while we willing give up all our personal data/info by joining social-networks and buying 'smart' phones.

[Dr. MD MD]

Oh for god's sake.  I specified the OKC bombing, 9/11, and the Sandy Hook massacre - tons of people actually think those were government false flag operations.

Obviously the government all-too-frequently participates in conspiracies:  MK Ultra, the Tuskegee experiments, the massive secret surveillance programs, plus the covert online psysops that I'm always carrying on about.  We have actual evidence about all of that stuff.

But these days an alarming number of people think that Everything nightmarish that's reported in the news is some kind of insidious government operation.  The whole stupid "Jade Helm is Obama's invasion of Texas" rubbish, I've even heard people claiming that Sandy Hook never happened - that it was all staged and the grieving parents were paid actors.  People seem eager to buy that bullshit so they can think they're "ahead of the curve."  Pathetic.  And it only undermines the rightful outrage that should be focused on the real and damaging conspiracies, like the House of Representatives kneeling before guys like Jamie Dimon with their mouths wide open.

Well, you say there's evidence for the conspiracies you select but I'm sure there are teams of people trying to debunk that too. I think there are more government conspiracies than you think but yes, sometimes the Prison Planet people take it too far. I used to be (still am) a fan of Alice Cooper. He presented himself as a really scary guy. He even hung himself on stage but it was all just an act. Don't discount the theater aspect to a lot of this stuff. I know people like to make fun of Alex Jones and I think he actually believes a lot of what he's saying but I also think even he realizes he's putting on a show too. Honestly, he presents a lot of factual information and the premises to his arguments are often true...but he often crosses the line into crazytown in his conclusions. For example, he was talking about how the leachates from certain plastics can effect the endocrine system and cause spikes in estrogen sometimes causing birth defects in the sex organs of some pond life, which is all true. However, he then the hollers, "It's a plan to turn you gay as part of the NWO's depopulation plan!" Really, Alex?! I mean, maybe but I'd like to see a bit more evidence that it's part of a depopulation plan, if one exists. It's the stuff he says before he makes the crazy pronouncements that's sometimes worth listening to.

[Value Of Pi]

911, OKC, etc were conspiracies. The government even put out books detailing the conspiracy and in OKC's case prosecuted people involved. Terry Nichols is in prison- convicted for- wait for it- CONSPIRACY (in addition to some other counts!) Sandy Hook is not one since only one nutjob was involved. The only issue is whether one believes the government theory of what those conspiracies entailed or the conspiracy theories of others. Conspiracy is a crime that is prosecuted daily in our court rooms and it amazes me how normally logical, knowledgeable people say "there are no conspiracies." Tell that to the people setting in prison having been convicted, like Terry.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/longterm/oklahoma/nichols.htm
"Nichols, 43, showed no emotion as U.S. District Judge Richard P. Matsch imposed the sentence of life without parole for conspiring to use a weapon of mass destruction"

I've never heard anyone say "there are no conspiracies." This must be about semantics.

[Dr. MD MD]

The 1st shot missed everyone.  2nd shot, still aimed for Connally, got 'em both.  3rd shot, this one from Hickey, not aimed at anyone, got Kennedy in the head.

Any links to articles or videos regarding this theory?

[Coffeeman]

911, OKC, etc were conspiracies. The government even put out books detailing the conspiracy and in OKC's case prosecuted people involved. Terry Nichols is in prison- convicted for- wait for it- CONSPIRACY (in addition to some other counts!) Sandy Hook is not one since only one nutjob was involved. The only issue is whether one believes the government theory of what those conspiracies entailed or the conspiracy theories of others. Conspiracy is a crime that is prosecuted daily in our court rooms and it amazes me how normally logical, knowledgeable people say "there are no conspiracies." Tell that to the people setting in prison having been convicted, like Terry.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/longterm/oklahoma/nichols.htm
"Nichols, 43, showed no emotion as U.S. District Judge Richard P. Matsch imposed the sentence of life without parole for conspiring to use a weapon of mass destruction"

The legalistic charge of "conspiracy" means what you think it means in regards to Terry Nichols.

[Juan]

To paraphrase G.K. Chesterton, once we don't have Art Bell to believe in, we'll believe anything.

[SciFiAuthor]

I'm starting to question your intelligence Dr. MD MD.

Obviously opposing viewpoints and opinions are not fraud.  And ancient books written and edited by dozens of people aren't relevant to the discussion because even if we could prove an intent to commit fraud, we can't charge dead people.

Perhaps you're deflecting because you don't know the case.  "Dr." Jonathan "Reed" is a professional con artist who intentionally invented a fake story to make money selling books and tickets.  He spoke about his plan to witnesses who soon realized that everything he had told them about himself (even to his fiancee, her daughter, and all of their friends) was a fabricated lie.  Nearly everyone who knows him would like to testify against him in a court of law.  Everything about his story can be proven to be a lie in a court of law.

It's clearly a case of fraud, not simply of people honestly seeing things differently.  He even recruited other people to perpetuate the fraud for money, which raises conspiracy questions.  We know what they said and who they said they are, and who they actually are.

So we can prove intent, we can prove the facts of the fraud, and we can prove the damages.  I don't see why that should be legal, yet Bernie Madoff is in jail.  It's the same crime using different tools:  securities vs. books and tickets.

Have to be careful here, because for damages to be awarded in this manner would mean that anyone that writes a fictional book, i.e. novelists, could then be theoretically prosecuted for fraud if they didn't put a disclaimer in. George Lucas would serve a lifetime sentence for not clearly stating that Star Wars wasn't real. In reality, it's not illegal to tell a story, even a false one and present it as real. We don't prosecute parents that tell their 5 year-olds that Santa really exists and we don't prosecute people telling ghost stories at a campfire. Only when the intent is to defraud someone in a damaging way is it illegal. The reason it isn't in the case of Reed is because all he did was sell a book to a purchaser. They clearly got the book they chose to purchase. The content has no bearing on it.

Another case would be documentary film makers. If they arrange something for a shot, say they want someone to reenact something or they want to depict some detail that didn't really happen to make the documentary better, then that would be prosecutable fraud.

[Chronaut]

The government (and some non-governmental orgs I've heard) had people and informants in Elohim City prior to OKC. I think of all of "them" OKC is the one that I have some suspicions about and think more involved than just the 2 that were caught. I'm not saying 'inside job' but just that others involved.

It is also important to note that AFTER the fact it is easy to place blame. "You had a tip" "you had the intel" "an informer warned you" and so forth. Imagine how many "warnings" police and government get daily. To separate the wheat from the chaff etc can be hard. Simply because someone (either in or outside of) warned of something that happened doesn't mean the government "was involved" or "covered it up."

ps: I agree with you. The uninteresting conspiracies, like LIBOR, front-running, money laundering, insider trading, commodity futures scams, etc are the ones that REALLY effect people and are not covered, much. And, not punished, much (considering the amount of fines versus profits.)

Excellent post and the Dallek quote is exactly how I see the whole JFK conspiracy phenomenon. Your broader point is also very well taken although I don't see a lot of cynicism in Dallek's quote or what you have said. Being realistic about people doesn't necessarily mean you're being cynical.

Thanks - and to be clear: I think Dallek's view is quite compassionate actually - it's a view that says "people are afraid of chaos and death and they seek deeper meaning in it as a coping/defense mechanism."  I wish that was the whole story.  But when you look at the larger context of unfounded conspiracy theories abounding these days, then the "but ultimately a huge fraction of the population consists of stupid, stubborn, conceited assholes who take pride in being unreasonable" factor, creeps in.  And I hope that's cynicism talking, because if it isn't, then populist forms of governments like ours are irrevocably flawed and ultimately unsustainable.

The really baffling thing though is that it seems to be working better in other countries.  So trying to understand why America seems singularly determined to degenerate into a nightmarish idiocracy is high on my priority list.

The government (and some non-governmental orgs I've heard) had people and informants in Elohim City prior to OKC. I think of all of "them" OKC is the one that I have some suspicions about and think more involved than just the 2 that were caught. I'm not saying 'inside job' but just that others involved.

I think you're very probably right - it sure as hell looks like McVeigh acted as an agent of cult thinking at Elohim, and they probably circled the wagons to shield themselves from culpability.  But suspicions don't build cases, and cults are notoriously difficult to crack.

The uninteresting conspiracies, like LIBOR, front-running, money laundering, insider trading, commodity futures scams, etc are the ones that REALLY effect people and are not covered, much. And, not punished, much (considering the amount of fines versus profits.)

Yup - we're soaking in that shit; we've been so conditioned to accept it that it rarely merits a mention in the press, which is mostly owned by the guilty parties anyway...another chilling trend of the corporate unification age.

[Chronaut]

Here's one difference. When you buy a book, there's no contract between buyer and author, and no obligation on the author's part, to tell the truth. Trying to enforce truth-telling in the marketplace of ideas would be totally impractical and holding the author liable for lying would normally be unconstitutional, IMO. With financial fraud, there are specific laws at work as well as a moral, ethical and legal obligation not to steal money or other assets from clients or the public.

I just think that in extreme cases like "Dr. Jonathan Reed's" case, where the intent to commit fraud can be proven beyond a reasonable doubt, and the damages collectively are significant and readily calculable, we have a moral responsibility to write some new laws against that crap.  I don't see how it's any different than the laws we already have in place against false advertising.  It just seems twisted that we claim to uphold truth in this country, but we don't lift a finger to defend it.

And I guess I'm just sick of seeing the parasites eating America from the inside out, at every level.  It's like a feeding frenzy from top to bottom, and those who suck the hardest float to the top.  Then they redesign the system to further support the sociopathic way of life at the expense of everyone with a shred of decency.

[Dr. MD MD]

I just think that in extreme cases like "Dr. Jonathan Reed's" case, where the intent to commit fraud can be proven beyond a reasonable doubt, and the damages collectively are significant and readily calculable, we have a moral responsibility to write some new laws against that crap.  I don't see how it's any different than the laws we already have in place against false advertising.  It just seems twisted that we claim to uphold truth in this country, but we don't lift a finger to defend it.

And I guess I'm just sick of seeing the parasites eating America from the inside out, at every level.  It's like a feeding frenzy from top to bottom, and those who suck the hardest float to the top.  Then they redesign the system to further support the sociopathic way of life at the expense of everyone with a shred of decency.

Yeah, and I'm just glad there are NEVER any sociopaths in the government. It's a good thing they don't let them enter politics  : 

[Chronaut]

Call me a "its a conspiracy conspiracist" but I think some of the C2C, Alex, Icke, Art, Bill Cooper, etc etc are precisely what "they" want.  If you want to cover up a conspiracy what better than to make "everything" a conspiracy in some people's minds and have people throw the baby out with the bathwater. We focus on UFOs (while crazy drones and planes are manufactured.) We focus on "Sandyhook actors," or some crap, while LIBOR is being rigged or the anti-democratic TPP is put through eliminating both national sovereignty but also personal rights. We bitch about NSA while we willing give up all our personal data/info by joining social-networks and buying 'smart' phones.

This is why I want to see every covert online and media psyop exposed to the public - our own tax dollars are being spent to fuck with our heads.  That should not be legal.  Year after year it feels like more of the system is being manipulated, and the chaos and confusion at this point feels like a clear and present danger to the survival of our country.

And you mentioned some of the gazillion ways our founding principles are under assault right now.  "Fast-tracking" is clearly unconstitutional - it should be repealed immediately and the authors of that bill should be charged with treason.  I think we've tolerated too much bullshit for too long, and if we don't stand up for ourselves now, we're either going to inherit a new form of plutocratic corporate tyranny, or face some kind of economic collapse and/or civil war.  We're about a hair's breadth from the level of wealth inequality that triggers a revolution, and it's happening because of the entrenched corruption.  And the window to avert catastrophe legislatively, before the whole ship hits an iceberg, is narrowing fast.

[Chronaut]

Yeah, and I'm just glad there are NEVER any sociopaths in the government. It's a good thing they don't let them enter politics  :

I remember reading an article by a British journalist who found that CEOs score four times higher than the average population on sociopathy tests.  The politicians apparently are smart enough to demure from studies like that...

[Dr. MD MD]

This is why I want to see every covert online and media psyop exposed to the public - our own tax dollars are being spent to fuck with our heads.  That should not be legal.  Year after year it feels like more of the system is being manipulated, and the chaos and confusion at this point feels like a clear and present danger to the survival of our country.

And you mentioned some of the gazillion ways our founding principles are under assault right now.  "Fast-tracking" is clearly unconstitutional - it should be repealed immediately and the authors of that bill should be charged with treason.  I think we've tolerated too much bullshit for too long, and if we don't stand up for ourselves now, we're either going to inherit a new form of plutocratic corporate tyranny, or face some kind of economic collapse and/or civil war.  We're about a hair's breadth from the level of wealth inequality that triggers a revolution, and it's happening because of the entrenched corruption.  And the window to avert catastrophe legislatively, before the whole ship hits an iceberg, is narrowing fast.

Right, and just like they needed their pearl harbor to tip it that way we now need one for the average man and woman of the world. I say let's elect a socialist government somewhere big and then watch the NWO bankers force them to go 180 back on their campaign platform, like in Greece. I think one or two more of those with the whole world watching might do it and then we can have our bloody revolution and get it over with 

[Roswells, Art]

So Heather killed kennedy now? Lol you guys should make a kennedy thread and duke it out there.

OK nevermind, you were right.

[MikeJ]

Nothing causes me to lose interest faster than a show about JFK's assassination-except maybe a show about Roswell.  Time to move on people.

[Dr. MD MD]

I remember reading an article by a British journalist who found that CEOs score four times higher than the average population on sociopathy tests.  The politicians apparently are smart enough to demure from studies like that...

I'm a big fan of House of Cards. Spacey's actually friends with Clinton's, apparently. You don't think he's basing that role on Bill a little, do you?   

[Chronaut]

Well, you say there's evidence for the conspiracies you select but I'm sure there are teams of people trying to debunk that too. I think there are more government conspiracies than you think but yes, sometimes the Prison Planet people take it too far. I used to be (still am) a fan of Alice Cooper. He presented himself as a really scary guy. He even hung himself on stage but it was all just an act. Don't discount the theater aspect to a lot of this stuff. I know people like to make fun of Alex Jones and I think he actually believes a lot of what he's saying but I also think even he realizes he's putting on a show too. Honestly, he presents a lot of factual information and the premises to his arguments are often true...but he often crosses the line into crazytown in his conclusions. For example, he was talking about how the leachates from certain plastics can effect the endocrine system and cause spikes in estrogen sometimes causing birth defects in the sex organs of some pond life, which is all true. However, he then the hollers, "It's a plan to turn you gay as part of the NWO's depopulation plan!" Really, Alex?! I mean, maybe but I'd like to see a bit more evidence that it's part of a depopulation plan, if one exists. It's the stuff he says before he makes the crazy pronouncements that's sometimes worth listening to.

I think there's a chilling culture of conspiracy within the intelligence community actually, but I also think it's still almost entirely invisible.  Except for the indirect consequences:  American literally seems to be going completely batshit crazy - I don't think that's an accident, I think it's a side effect born of the rampant corruption combined with layers upon layers of massive psyops programs warping people's perceptions of reality until the fragile minds among us snap.  I think that most of us sense that it's happening, but we can't see the mechanisms because it's hidden behind secrecy protections.

Alex Jones strikes me as part of the problem, because his wild conclusions defuse the real problems they're predicated upon, like the groundwater contamination you mentioned.  We don't need to turn it into a conspiracy theory for it to be a problem - we need to implement new safety protocols right now.  Same goes for the 1000s of new freaky carcinogens and such that are a common part of industrial contamination today, which aren't covered by the 70s-era legislation that was written to protect the public.  In fact I think the whole system should be turned upside-down:  force manufacturers to prove the safety of their contaminants -before- letting them dump them into our air, water and ground.  What a crazy idea....  :

[Auslandia]

Bill Birnes tonight huh....well, ok then.  Ill have to keep the volume low in case he gets fired up about something completely fake. 

[Value Of Pi]

Thanks - and to be clear: I think Dallek's view is quite compassionate actually - it's a view that says "people are afraid of chaos and death and they seek deeper meaning in it as a coping/defense mechanism."  I wish that was the whole story.  But when you look at the larger context of unfounded conspiracy theories abounding these days, then the "but ultimately a huge fraction of the population consists of stupid, stubborn, conceited assholes who take pride in being unreasonable" factor, creeps in.  And I hope that's cynicism talking, because if it isn't, then populist forms of governments like ours are irrevocably flawed and ultimately unsustainable.

The really baffling thing though is that it seems to be working better in other countries.  So trying to understand why America seems singularly determined to degenerate into a nightmarish idiocracy is high on my priority list.

I think you're mistaking realism for cynicism here too. That makes the situation you're observing seem even worse than it actually is. The stupid, stubborn problem is nothing new; it's just worse, relatively speaking, than it was a few decades ago. You can attribute that to a complex, interrelated group of factors as diverse as failing educational systems and the growing embrace of moral relativism by the public.

Is this situation worse in the U.S.? Maybe, but it's not necessarily fatal and probably isn't. Also, all forms of government are irrevocably flawed because they are created by and for flawed people. We're still evolving, right? Give us a little more time. And who knows what is sustainable any more, with all the threats we face? Still, all things considered, I really think you worry too much.

[norland2424]

OK nevermind, you were right.

Hehe i knew it would turn into a pointless flame war

[GravitySucks]

Hehe i knew it would turn into a pointless flame war

A conspiracy to destroy the thread.

[Chronaut]

Right, and just like they needed their pearl harbor to tip it that way we now need one for the average man and woman of the world. I say let's elect a socialist government somewhere big and then watch the NWO bankers force them to go 180 back on their campaign platform, like in Greece. I think one or two more of those with the whole world watching might do it and then we can have our bloody revolution and get it over with 

I'm with Bernie this time around because the Hillary-bot is clearly bought and paid for.  But then, so is the entire House and Senate, so the prospect for any meaningful change is dim at best.

I know that Art was entirely against the restitution of the Fairness Doctrine stuff back in the 90s, but the consequences of repealing it have been disastrous.  People are now getting "opinion" instead of "news," and we can't make responsible political decisions when our facts are all fucked up.  Thus:  our government today.

I'm a big fan of House of Cards. Spacey's actually friends with Clinton's, apparently. You don't think he's basing that role on Bill a little, do you?   

I think I saw a clip and thought that very thing.  I like Spacey's work; I do wish people would stop trying to fake a Southern accent though - it can't be done.  Even Southerners screw it up when they try to exaggerate it.

[Dr. MD MD]

I'm with Bernie this time around because the Hillary-bot is clearly bought and paid for.  But then, so is the entire House and Senate, so the prospect for any meaningful change is dim at best.

I know that Art was entirely against the restitution of the Fairness Doctrine stuff back in the 90s, but the consequences of repealing it have been disastrous.  People are now getting "opinion" instead of "news," and we can't make responsible political decisions when our facts are all fucked up.  Thus:  our government today.

I think I saw a clip and thought that very thing.  I like Spacey's work; I do wish people would stop trying to fake a Southern accent though - it can't be done.  Even Southerners screw it up when they try to exaggerate it.

Yeah but it works on us Northerners because we can't tell an El Paso accent from an Alabama. It's all cowboy to us 

[Dr. MD MD]

A conspiracy to destroy the thread.

Sorry, guys! For what it's worth I had fun though.