Ebola

[Yorkshire pud]

This concept of conservative values being fundamentally based around smaller government seems to be recent phenomenon.  I think it's a revisionist history based on what conservatives think the Reagan playbook was.

Reagan and Thatcher shared a lot of the same beliefs. Here's a brief synopsis of what Thatcher's belief in 'small government' helping the hallowed tax payer actually meant twenty five years later. Bear in mind, the 'promise' was several fold; relieving the burden on the tax payer, opening 'competition', increasing the actual scope of services, allowing the UK population 'invest' in their infrastructure (KEEPING IT IN BRITAIN) and reducing the over all cost to the population.

In other words, un nationalise the railways, the electricity generators and suppliers, water companies and several other state owned utilities and services.


Great in theory; after all those sales BACK to the population who owned them in the first place (The tax payer remember?) I waited and waited for my cheque for a few thousand quid...it never came.

What happened is..The railways are now owned by French and German state run railway companies (Oh the irony!) and not only but also, the British tax payer pays MORE in subsidies to the railway companies than it ever did when it was state owned! Hilarious! Get that? We the hallowed tax payer not only don't own the railways any more, but we pay more to another country that does!


Water and energy generators and suppliers are all owned by foreign companies...Oh and we pay more to use them! None of the profits go back into the UK..sure they invest in the infrastructure, but they get breaks and a hotline to the various government departments for their trouble.

Thatcher's vision of 'small government' came to pass.. it's owned by other countries! Thatcher friend of Reagan.

[GeorgieForPresident2216]

We had some of that going on here, though I can't say I followed it in detail.  From my perspective all it boiled down to was private contractors charging more than government employees to perform the same tasks.  The regulations and services tend to be necessary to running the country, and eliminating them from government doesn't mean they don't need to be done.

[PB the Deplorable]

This concept of conservative values being fundamentally based around smaller government seems to be a recent phenomenon.  I think it's a revisionist history based on what conservatives think the Reagan playbook was.

The original 'Progressives' - some Republican like Teddy Roosevelt, some Democrat like Woodrow Wilson - gave us the Fed (1913), and the Income Tax (16th Amendment, 1913).  These events centralized economic and banking power under the Federal government, and gave them the ability to fund a vast government bureaucracy.

As with modern day 'Progressives', they saw the Constitution as an impediment to all the 'good' they could do, and wanted to vastly expand Federal power.  First up - getting us into WWI (1917), next up - Prohibition (18th Amendment 1919)

The last major check on the growth of Federal power were the various States.  US Senators were appointed by the various State Legislatures and represented their States in DC (the House represented the people directly).  The 17th Amendment (1913) changed the US Senate from being appointed by State Legislatures, to being directly elected.  The Senate no longer provided a check on the Federal government when claiming powers that belonged to the states. 


Along came FDR, the Great Depression, and WWII.  The Federal government was greatly expanded during these years.  In the 1950's the Conservative movement was born.  William F Buckley and his colleagues.  In 1964 they managed to take control of the Republican Party and ran one of their own for President - Barry Goldwater. 

A rising star became Governor of California and later ran for President in the Republican primaries 3 times.  The third time, 1980, Ronald Reagan won the nomination and the general election.  Since then the Conservatives have had varying degrees of influence over the Party and country.  In 1994 Newt Gingrich won back the House for the first time in 40 years.

The Republican Party is currently leaderless and rudderless.  They stand for nothing and represent no one.  It's time for the Conservatives to seize the Party and run a true Conservative for President again. 


About Reagan.  No one is a pure anything.  In politics, compromises must be made.  Reagan came to office to do 3 things 1) eliminate the Soviet Union, 2) reduce the size of (Federal) government, reduce taxes and set the economy on a new course, specifically away from the Carter policies and results, and 3) rebuild the military.

He was very fortunate in having Paul Volcker as Fed Chairman, and a Carter appointee.  He got most of what he wanted by going over the head of the Democrats and the Liberal Media by speaking directly to the American people and having them put pressure on their representatives.  Unfortunately the price for rebuilding the military, standing up to the Soviets, and cutting taxes was ever more Federal spending. 

The Congressional D's held Reagan's policies and the country hostage until they got their pork.  During the Reagan years, Federal tax receipts nearly doubled, but the Congress spent all of that and more, creating the 'Reagan' deficits.  I wish he'd stood up to them more, but he probably got all he could get.   Being a believer of America, and understanding the need to operate by the rules, he didn't simply announce he had a phone and a pen and start issuing illegal Executive Orders.  Pity.


Each President since Reagan has been worse than the last one.  It's not a surprise people alive during that time remember it fondly.

[PB the Deplorable]

... Here's a brief synopsis of what Thatcher's belief in 'small government' helping the hallowed tax payer actually meant twenty five years later....

If mistakes were made, if things didn't work out as envisioned, fix them.  That's what you have representative government for. 

Were you around during those years?  Because my recollection (as a far away outsider) was the British economy was in an absolute shambles, having been run into the ground by years of Labor - friend of Carter - and was saved from going over the cliff by Thatcher and the Tories. 

[Up All Night]

Absolute Zero by Frederick Aldrich (1999)

Publication Date: May 4, 1999

Ebola. The very sound conjures up hideous images, images that cannot begin to convey the horrors of the disease itself.

An African man carrying the virus has arrived unhindered in Dallas. Experts assure the public there is no cause for fear. But is there really nothing to fear?

Absolute Zero is the tale of an attack on America, of an unlikely hero who saved millions. One man, his life as ordinary as any among us, did something he could never have anticipated, something he never intended. It is a cautionary tale for those who believe that biological weapons are unlikely to be used here. Pray that it never comes to pass.

[Yorkshire pud]

If mistakes were made, if things didn't work out as envisioned, fix them.  That's what you have representative government for. 

They have that one covered; the various rail franchises that were set up (The rail regions are basically independent to each other but running on common track-the regions in effect being separate companies, few routes overlap)...Franchises don't want to put any money into something they're not going to get a return on. So 25/30 year franchise contracts have been set up (and rolling) to ensure that any rolling stock (Yep, German/ Japanese/ French rolling stock!), that they put in place, will get a return on the investment...Oh and ticket prices are through the roof too--back to that 'competition and 'cheaper' scam.

The government essentially are only there to issue the franchises..there's already mutterings to renationalise it all...Oh that won't cost much will it? Bear in mind also that the new private bosses awarded themselves multi milion pound contracts with share options etc.. That we, the tax payer subsidise.

Were you around during those years?  Because my recollection (as a far away outsider) was the British economy was in an absolute shambles, having been run into the ground by years of Labor - friend of Carter - and was saved from going over the cliff by Thatcher and the Tories.

Sure, it was a shambles..Thatcher came along and in two years made over two million unemployed. Just in the South Yorkshire region, over 60000 people lost their jobs JUST in steel making. Add in the support industries, the contracting companies, even down to the cafes.

Saved it? She sold it to the foreigners. And she said she was patriotic? Our steel is now owned by an Indian. So is Jaguar and Landrover. The Arabs own some water companies, as do the French, who also own power (Nuclear) and gas as do the Germans. China owns some nuclear power...Yep...well done Thatcher. So in answer to your question, yes I was in the middle of it, I lived it alright.

[Up All Night]

Trying to bring this thread somewhat back on Topic...

Chain reaction: Concern about Ebola nurse’s flight prompts various school closings in two states

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/10/16/after-concern-about-ebola-patients-flight-schools-close-in-two-cities/

In Solon, Ohio, 20 miles southeast of Cleveland, two schools will shut down Thursday so health officials can disinfect the buildings. The school district stated in an e-mail that it made the call after learning a local middle-school staff member may have been on the same plane â€" but not the same flight â€" as Vinson.

Some 1,200 miles away in Belton, Tex., about an hour north of Austin, a school district came to the same conclusion. The school district announced via Twitter that three of its schools would be closed Thursday. And two children who were on the same Frontier flight have been asked to stay home from school for 21 days and monitor their temperatures.

A student in the Eagle Mountain-Saginaw school district â€" in a county bordering Dallas â€" will be isolated with his or her family for three weeks after the shared flight.

[onan]

I would love to be quarantined for 3 weeks.

[Yorkshire pud]

I would love to be quarantined for 3 weeks.

Everyone knows you can catch any illness via radio waves...and you and your fellow podcast renegades are prime carriers of any transmittable disease.

[Yorkshire pud]

Absolute Zero by Frederick Aldrich (1999)

That's fine; it's only going to get America, I'm safe. For long enough you've had a sizable contingent believing the USA is the centre of the universe,  well, it might come to pass it's the centre of martial law, riots, looting, street by street shootouts, all manner of nasties. And that's before there's any outbreak that's threatening vast swathes of the population.

[FightTheFuture]

That's fine; it's only going to get America, I'm safe. For long enough you've had a sizable contingent believing the USA is the centre of the universe,  well, it might come to pass it's the centre of martial law, riots, looting, street by street shootouts, all manner of nasties. And that's before there's any outbreak that's threatening vast swathes of the population.

The scenario you just described will occur in the UK/Europe long before it ever comes to pass in the U.S.

[Juan]

Here we go
ebolahoax.com

Hahahahaha

[DigitalPigSnuggler]

I would love to be quarantined for 3 weeks.

I have a LOT of porn on my computer.  GIve me a case of booze and a case of hand lotion, and I'll self-quarantine until one or the other is empty.

[Yorkshire pud]

The scenario you just described will occur in the UK/Europe long before it ever comes to pass in the U.S.

No it won't, because we're not the panicking kind. Oh and we're not armed to the teeth either. But even if you're right, why the panic in the US now?

[albrecht]

We had some of that going on here, though I can't say I followed it in detail.  From my perspective all it boiled down to was private contractors charging more than government employees to perform the same tasks.  The regulations and services tend to be necessary to running the country, and eliminating them from government doesn't mean they don't need to be done.

The "savings", so the theory usually goes, is on the back-end. It saves the government money from not having to provide pensions, health benefits, retirement, vacation time, office overhead and upkeep, equipment leases, etc. Similar idea for the outsourcing security at consulates and for some military operations. Individuals working there make more $$ than regular troops but after service need to handle their retirement, healthcare, mental health etc on their own dime (or by the private company.) And the privatization and PPPs also "saves" government money because any liabilities (human rights violations, lawsuits, worker's comp, sexual harassment, etc) get transferred to the contractor or worker.

-Not sure how this got on the Ebola thread but, I guess, everything comes down to politics including why we are still issuing VISAs to people traveling in from Ebola infected countries.

[albrecht]

That's fine; it's only going to get America, I'm safe. For long enough you've had a sizable contingent believing the USA is the centre of the universe,  well, it might come to pass it's the centre of martial law, riots, looting, street by street shootouts, all manner of nasties. And that's before there's any outbreak that's threatening vast swathes of the population.

It could happen anywhere because diversity is our strength, yeah right. There are lots of elements who like to riot at the drop of a hat. They don't need Ebola. A criminal gets shot or almost any excuse. And we have an open-border with strongly organized, narco-terrorist criminals who could seize the opportunity for mayhem. And we have more guns in civilian hands, for good or ill. In Europe (except in cases like the Balkans) it will more likely police shooting and civilians dieing. Here it could be both ways. Lucky we have more places to flee and more people who are, relatively, self-sufficient so a bad Ebola combined with riots there will still be survivors and areas that could be protected as a redoubt. A small urban country with large immigrant populations, less agriculture, no private arms, etc come Ebola and martial law will come out worse. Since we are discussing worst-case scenarios here is one: what happens when the first country that gets an effective vaccine or cure happens to be a "baddie?" Imagine, N.Korea, gets the vaccine. Maybe let Ebola run rampant and then take over S.Korea or more. Or the Chinese? Or the Russians? To be fair, the Anglo-American hegemony (as the leftists call it) gets the vaccine/cure and thinks....hmmm. Maybe let's wait a bit and see what happens to Russia, China, MiddleEast, etc?

[FightTheFuture]

No it won't, because we're not the panicking kind. Oh and we're not armed to the teeth either. But even if you're right, why the panic in the US now?

What panic? There isn`t any panic at all. 

The reasons why Europe is so susceptible to panic and turmoil are simple: you rely on your centralized government FAR more than the typical American, AND Europe`s immigration fiasco has led to large enclaves of disenfranchised residents, which, as we have all seen, flare up from time to time.

[Eddie Coyle]

I would love to be quarantined for 3 weeks.

   Due to my precognitive abilities, I began my quarantine in 1991.

[paladin1991]

Also, now might be the time to find some "bug out" land if you do need to GTFO of town and to a safe zone. I've been a tinfoil hat enthusiast for years now, and it's reasons like this I live on land where I grow my own food, pump my own water, and live far as fuck from the city... and now you know. 

What's your addy?  I'll drop by with my FD burgers and a bottle.  We'll party.  You know, like it's the end of the world.  And we'll feel fine.....

[Quick Karl]

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/ebola-virus-outbreak/obama-may-send-national-guard-liberia-fight-ebola-sources-n227336

National Guard to Liberia (to die from Ebola), but no way can we put the National Guard on the southern border...

[VtaGeezer]

Yes, the CDC.  The people who report to the President (the Director of the CDC is appointed by the President, and does not require confirmation).  The present Director - Thomas Frieden - was appointed by Obama in 2009, so it shouldn't really be a surprise he's a flop.

The CDC is supposed to establish protocols and training, not every local hospital out there.  They've only had since spring to do so for Ebola.  Doesn't appear to have been any advance guidance at all.

The way Obama's Chicago Machine operates, I wouldn't be at all surprised if someone from the West Wing has threatened the hospital about what they can and cannot discuss about the issue.


Yes, let's put our trust in Big Government.  Let's let them decide who gets what healthcare and who goes to which doctors. 


No, we can't isolate Africa in an airtight quarantine.  But we can pluck the low hanging fruit and stop passengers originating from those countries.  Which would be a huge improvement over doing nothing.  It seems to me denying entry to nearly all who would otherwise get through would be better than dealing with anyone that can get on a plane.

Since we can't stop all violence and murderer, should we just forget about policing our streets?  Jeez, the same people who think we can't stop everything so let's not bother trying are the same people that would take the guns only from law abiding citizens.  The same people who aren't listening to the epidemiologists advising the WHO are the same people always clucking about how they are on the side of science when it comes to global whatever.  And the same people who gave us Obama in the first place.


By the way, what is this 'catastrophic economic effect' that would occur if the 'draconian measures' of trying to keep this virus out the country are implemented?  Please be specific.

Johnny One-Note. You left out the Honduran children and Islam.  You also left out the conservative/TP budget cuts and the AWOL Congress tied in knots by conservative ideologues for the past 20 years. I really don't care who runs CDC; the director has almost nothing to do with what's happening in real time, like any agency director, is consumed with administrivia, not health issues. CDC can only issue guidelines and suggest actions. It has no authority to impose anything on anyone at the local level. Its pretty clear that Texas Health, the "non-profit" that runs Dallas Pres and a larger organization than CDC btw) chose to give little more than lip service, because it would have cost $$ that would cut its CEO's bonus. We also have a pretty fair idea how the State of TX felt about following guidelines from Obama's Big Feral Gubbamayent. 

Please, drop Limbag's "Chicago Machine" nonsense.  It's a phony term created by Fox and Fatass.  Only ignorant dupes use it. There was a "Dailey Machine" when Richard J Dailey was mayor for 20+ years. It completely collapsed apart when RJD died in the 70s.  You probably haven't got a clue what it actually meant anyway.  If it has any remnants, you may rest assured they don't include young black politicians from the S Side.

[aldousburbank]

   Due to my precognitive abilities, I began my quarantine in 1991.

Hopefully you had the insight to stock up on plastic bags, non recycled ass-wipe, and incadescent light bulbs.

[Yorkshire pud]

What panic? There isn`t any panic at all. 

The reasons why Europe is so susceptible to panic and turmoil are simple: you rely on your centralized government FAR more than the typical American, AND Europe`s immigration fiasco has led to large enclaves of disenfranchised residents, which, as we have all seen, flare up from time to time.

Oh please! You have TV to tell you when to fart, you don't need politicians to tell you to do it. 50% of Americans believe angels are real, so self sufficiency isn't a national sport. Nor is walking. How you all going to cope when the gas doesn't flow from the pumps? That will happen in a crisis.

I will put money on sociatal breakdown in the US before the UK. And vastly more casualties as a percentage. Let's hope I don't collect that bet.

[Yorkshire pud]

What's your addy?  I'll drop by with my FD burgers and a bottle.  We'll party.  You know, like it's the end of the world.  And we'll feel fine.....

But not the end of world as you know it..

[PB the Deplorable]

... 50% of Americans believe angels are real, so self sufficiency isn't a national sport. Nor is walking....

You are incredibly proficient at getting to the essence of the real issues. 

How did you become such an expert on the US?

[FightTheFuture]

Oh please! You have TV to tell you when to fart, you don't need politicians to tell you to do it. 50% of Americans believe angels are real, so self sufficiency isn't a national sport. Nor is walking. How you all going to cope when the gas doesn't flow from the pumps? That will happen in a crisis.

I will put money on sociatal breakdown in the US before the UK. And vastly more casualties as a percentage. Let's hope I don't collect that bet.

You`re clueless about our culture. All you know is what a select few crackpot websites and your own biased TV networks spout. When you spend as many years as I have traveling around THIS nation and getting to know the people of it, get back to me.  Perhaps then your opinions of this country will have some value.

[albrecht]

Oh please! You have TV to tell you when to fart, you don't need politicians to tell you to do it. 50% of Americans believe angels are real, so self sufficiency isn't a national sport. Nor is walking. How you all going to cope when the gas doesn't flow from the pumps? That will happen in a crisis.

I will put money on sociatal breakdown in the US before the UK. And vastly more casualties as a percentage. Let's hope I don't collect that bet.

I don't know. I think the big difference is urbanization and homogeneity. Guns will make more deaths possible but the level of violence will be the same. All guns for government and evil "rich people" simply means more bodies in the red in the "average Joe citizen" column of the balance sheet if SHTF really happens and there is a huge lacking of resources (food, medicine, water, etc.) More urbanized, younger, and more diverse populations means more problems, mayhem, and violence once food runs out and people are dying in the streets- depending on the government response (one could see very harsh measures taken by a government that could put down riots but with lots of bodies.) But harder to put down such "insurrections" in a larger, more dispersed area. Also harder for diseases to spread once travel is, effectively, shut down due to lack of fuel.

[GeorgieForPresident2216]

No it won't, because we're not the panicking kind. Oh and we're not armed to the teeth either. But even if you're right, why the panic in the US now?

We'll be okay in Canada so long as Ebola doesn't beat us at hockey.

[attachimg=1]

The last hockey game I went to.

[MV/Liberace!]

to clarify, none of the ebola threads were deleted.  they were all merged into one (this) thread.

[Yorkshire pud]

You are incredibly proficient at getting to the essence of the real issues. 

How did you become such an expert on the US?

American TV. Taught me all I know.