Ebola

[pate]

I do have beer, and that is a good thing...

PB, don't see the current pen and phone holder getting shownd the door outside the end of his term in office...

You read the tea leaves about what state that leaves us in two *(give or take) years...

[pate]

Obviously you are king of all knowledge, including your wonderful beliefs of an afterlife.  If your heaven is so great FTF, why aren't you in Africa treating ebola victims yourself with all this hospital knowledge of yours?  Not only would you be doing good work for god, but if you happened to die of ebola yourself, you'd be right there with him.  Sounds like a win win to me!

You constantly make arguments that you don't back up.  If you really want to *prove* 75 workers dealt with him directly - list them out.

Yourself included, Oh King, in that statement!  I for one am all for you going in there full bore to defeat this problem, and stay there for a half year after it is solved!

Have fun bro!

[area51drone]

Yourself included, Oh King, in that statement!  I for one am all for you going in there full bore to defeat this problem, and stay there for a half year after it is solved!

Have fun bro!

Prove me wrong.  When I'm wrong I will admit it.  FTF just spouts a figure without any justification.   I said about how many people I think should have been necessary to treat the guy.  I think it would be under 25, including the ambulance workers and corpse disposal.   If you wanted to add in admitting staff and orderlies at the beginning, maybe add another 5.  But 75?  That's insane.  How many people have you dealt with when you went into a hospital?  I have been with plenty with family members being treated for various illnesses and my personal experience is always less than 10 that they would have any contact with.  An ebola patient who is under strict quarantine should have less than that!

[FightTheFuture]

Obviously you are king of all knowledge, including your wonderful beliefs of an afterlife.  If your heaven is so great FTF, why aren't you in Africa treating ebola victims yourself with all this hospital knowledge of yours?  Not only would you be doing good work for god, but if you happened to die of ebola yourself, you'd be right there with him.  Sounds like a win win to me!

You constantly make arguments that you don't back up.  If you really want to *prove* 75 workers dealt with him directly - list them out.

AP is lyin`? And the hospital? I guess it`s possible...

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_EBOLA_HOSPITAL_STAFF?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2014-10-13-18-45-19

[pate]

I looked at that whole "staff site anti-personelle section home template" thing and found nothing but nattering nabobs of negativity...

here a craptastic link:


R.E.M. - "Losing My Religion" In Major Scale

Only look at this if you've achieve 04 (Major in main services)

[FightTheFuture]

I looked at that whole "staff site anti-personelle section home template" thing and found nothing but nattering nabobs of negativity...

here a craptastic link:


R.E.M. - "Losing My Religion" In Major Scale

Only look at this if you've achieve 04 (Major in main services)

Love the link! LOVE THE BAND!

[area51drone]

AP is lyin`? And the hospital? I guess it`s possible...

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_EBOLA_HOSPITAL_STAFF?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2014-10-13-18-45-19

You didn't read what I said. I'm not disputing that they allowed 75 people contact with him.  I'm saying THEY ARE FUCKING IDIOTS.  They should NOT have needed that many people to come in contact with him! 

Here's the form letter response from one of my senators, which pretty much says they're not really doing anything about this in the states, claiming we are already prepared.  Which I say is a lie.

Thank you for contacting me regarding the current Ebola outbreak in West Africa. It has been devastating to see how quickly the disease has spread and already taken so many lives. I share your concerns and am dedicated to supporting efforts to ensure the spread of the virus is controlled here in the United States and across the globe. 

As the outbreak of Ebola has demonstrated, infectious diseases are a continuing global health challenge. Not only does the outbreak serve as a purposeful reminder of the need to remain prepared for the unexpected, but it also highlights the importance of our nation's public health agencies that work to control these diseases across the globe, such as the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC). 

In order to prevent an outbreak of Ebola in the United States, the CDC is working with a network of other federal agencies, international health authorities, foreign governments and multilateral bodies. Together, they are coordinating efforts to detect individuals who may be carrying the disease, diagnose cases of Ebola, monitor individuals who were exposed to the virus, treat those who are ill, and contain the spread of the disease further. The battle against this terrible disease is far from over, and we must continue to work together to ensure awareness and resources to end it.

As a member of the Senate Health, Education, Labor and Pensions Committee and the Appropriations Subcommittee for Labor, Health and Human Services and Education, I heard testimony from the Administration regarding their response to the outbreak in September of 2014. At this time, experts maintain that the most effective way to protect Americans from Ebola is to ensure that the West African region has the resources it needs to stop the outbreak as quickly as possible. The U.S. healthcare system is well-equipped to handle and stop Ebola, and rest assured I will continue to work with our international, federal and state partners to ensure that they continue to be armed to fight it across the globe.
 

Again, thank you for contacting me and please know that I will continue to monitor the situation very carefully. For more information on Ebola, I suggest that you visit CDC's comprehensive website: http://www.cdc.gov/vhf/ebola/.

Sincerely,
Patty Murray
United States Senator

I added the bold in there.   But let's see, we already have a 200% increase in the number of infected off one patient using our existing health care system my senator so boldly claimed is prepared.  Imagine 50 people getting infected, and each of those people infected two more.   Then again.  This could easily balloon out of control.  Nothing mentioned about mass production of z-map or other drugs to fight this.  Nothing mentioned about trying to quarantine visitors from those countries before they go anywhere.   It's a joke.  How do they expect to really stop this?

[FightTheFuture]

You didn't read what I said. I'm not disputing that they allowed 75 people contact with him.  I'm saying THEY ARE FUCKING IDIOTS.  They should NOT have needed that many people to come in contact with him! 

Here's the form letter response from one of my senators, which pretty much says they're not really doing anything about this:

Nobody said that 75 people "came in contact with him." They are saying that 75 people were potentially exposed as a result of his care. THINK about it. Numerous doctors and nurses, numerous aides, cleaning staff on three shifts -- different days, lab techs, lab staff, HAZMAT staff and disposal teams, paramedics, people around the hospital staffers  that came out of the isolation unit, numerous morgue and supporting staff, and on and on.

One can imagine that there was a massive effort to save this man, which probably swelled the number of people directly involved with his care. This wasn`t treated like an appendix removal, nor should it have been.

[Yorkshire pud]

I'm sure your NHS folks are brilliant, but I'd put our medical professionals up against yours anytime

Oh I'm sure you would. No idea what the veracity is of this.. I offer no confirmation nor denial.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/10/15/dallas-nurse-ebola-conditions-usa_n_5988470.html

The union says that Thomas Duncan was left in an open area of an emergency room for hours, and the nurses treating him worked for days without proper protective gear. Even today, it claims, some hospital staff do not have proper equipment to handle the outbreak.

Duncan's lab samples were allowed to travel through the hospital's tubes which deliver medical samples, exposing them to contamination, the list says.



One of the nurses at the hospital has tested positive for Ebola and is hospitalised but "in good condition" and Texas health officials today announced that a preliminary test indicated a second, unidentified health care worker at the hospital had been infected with the disease.

"There was no advance preparedness on what to do with the patient, there was no protocol, there was no system," Burger said.

Even today, Burger said, some hospital staff at the Dallas hospital do not have proper equipment to handle the outbreak.

"Hospital managers have assured nurses that proper equipment has been ordered but it has not arrived yet," she said.

The union alleges that:

Duncan was kept in a non-isolated area of the emergency department for several hours, potentially exposing up to seven other patients to Ebola.

Patients who may have been exposed to Duncan were kept in isolation only for a day before being moved to areas where there were other patients.


Nurses treating Duncan were also caring for other patients in the hospital.


Preparation for Ebola at the hospital amounted to little more than an optional seminar for staff.

In the face of constantly shifting guidelines, nurses were allowed to follow whichever ones they chose.

But apparently:

The Presbyterian nurses are not represented by Nurses United or any other union. DeMoro and Burger said the nurses claimed they had been warned by the hospital not to speak to the media or they would be fired. They did not specify whether the nurses making the claims were among Duncan's caregivers.

The Associated Press said it has attempted since last week to contact dozens of individuals involved in Duncan's care. Those who responded to reporters' inquiries have so far been unwilling to speak.

David Wright, deputy regional administrator for the US Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services, which monitors patient safety and has the authority to withhold federal funding, said his agency is going to want to get all of the information the nurses provided.

Yeah, hold back money, that will work! Less money, means fewer services, fewer staff, fewer. oh you get the picture...

"We can't talk about whether we're going to investigate or not, but we'd be interested in hearing that information," he said.

CDC officials did not immediately respond to requests for comment.

Duncan first sought care at the hospital's ER late on 25 September and was sent home the next morning. He was rushed by ambulance back to the hospital on the 28th of September. Unlike his first visit, mention of his recent arrival from Liberia immediately roused suspicion of an Ebola risk, records show.

The CDC said Tuesday 76 people at the hospital could have been exposed to Duncan after his second ER visit. Another 48 people are being monitored for possible exposure before he was hospitalised.

[DigitalPigSnuggler]

"There is also word that Pham’s dog may have contracted the disease. It’s unknown what will happen if this is the case. Not too long ago, a dog belonging to a nurse with Ebola in Spain was put down."

[albrecht]

Even in their, relative to Ebola or virulent diseases, untrained state nurses and medical staff at least have SOME training. I wonder about all the people, including precious illegals, who might have been in contact with him during the initial stages. In the waiting room, in the ER, in the billing office, the hospital restroom, etc. Last time I was in the hospital the waiting room was full of coughing people, injured people, etc waiting to get in and the beds in the ER itself was just separated by curtains until the person was moved to their own room. We already know the dangers from MRSA and other things frequently, or semi-frequently, caught whilst in the hospital (elderly especially seem to often go in the hospital for one thing and come out with pneumonia or MRSA etc.) So what about the ebola risks there of transmission? Are waiting rooms sanitized appropriately? The clipboards used during admission between patients? The paperwork handled by so many? The chairs?

[onan]

it takes a lot of people to make the magic happen. Think about it. Think about how long he was there, and all the doctors, technicians of sorts, nurses, aids, various staffers, around the clock on different shifts and on different days. I'd say 70 - 75 would be a reasonable number if not on the low side.

ding ding ding

Give that man the prize. He is dead on right.

[VtaGeezer]

http://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2014/10/symposium-vaccine-seen-best-hope-arresting-ebola

       
       Michael T. Osterholm, PhD, MPH, of the University of Minnesota and Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy (CIDRAP) warned people to not get comfortable with the current Ebola dogma:

He also urged them to get comfortable with uncertainty and be honest with the public about it. "We're making this up as we go. We have to be mindful that we're making it up," he said. "One of the worst enemies we can have today is dogma."

As an example of current dogma, he cited the view that Ebola virus cannot spread through the air. Many virologists, he said, are concerned about the possibility of airborne transmission, and certain Ebola species have been known to go airborne in primates.

This is quite different from your original post quoting Breitbart.  When you posted, I checked the CIDRAP website and three pages into Ebola "news" bullets, finallly found the kernel of Brierbart's sensationalist crap headlined: "MEDICAL RESEARCH ORG CIDRAP: EBOLA TRANSMITTABLE BY AIR".  What CIDRAP did was publish a cautionary commentary titled "Health workers need optimal respiratory protection for Ebola" a month ago from two specialists in medical respiratory protective gear saying that, considering the virulence of Ebola, there is better mask protection available that should be used, and more research done on potential transmission by spray from sneezes and coughs.  The asshole who began Breitbart is dead and not missed, but his legacy of wild distortion spins on.

[VtaGeezer]

"The Hot Zone" Redux:  The new Ebola victim took a flight on Frontier Airlines with 134 people aboard the night before her fever was detected.  Not to mention her flight to Cleveland on the 10th, and what she did there.

Tidbits leaking from Dallas Presbyt staff are indicating that the protective measures around Thomas Duncan were a fucking sieve.

[albrecht]

This is quite different from your original post quoting Breitbart.  When you posted, I checked the CIDRAP website and three pages into Ebola "news" bullets, finallly found the kernel of Brierbart's sensationalist crap headlined: "MEDICAL RESEARCH ORG CIDRAP: EBOLA TRANSMITTABLE BY AIR".  What CIDRAP did was publish a cautionary commentary titled "Health workers need optimal respiratory protection for Ebola" a month ago from two specialists in medical respiratory protective gear saying that, considering the virulence of Ebola, there is better mask protection available that should be used, and more research done on potential transmission by spray from sneezes and coughs.  The asshole who began Breitbart is dead and not missed, but his legacy of wild distortion spins on.

http://scienceblogs.com/aetiology/2012/11/19/pig-to-monkey-ebola-is-there-something-in-the-air/
Reston possibly went airborne as did Zaire (though the studies said it could've been to other factors, like room cleaning so the science, "is not settled.")

http://www.nature.com/srep/2012/121115/srep00811/full/srep00811.html

I tried to look around and cannot tell easily what strain of Ebola this is. But Ebola has a history of spreading between species or being found in species that have more limited symptoms but still could spread it.
"Interestingly, when the pigs got sick with Ebola Zaire, the symptoms were mainly respiratory and the virus replicated in the lungs. This was quite unlike what Zaire does in humans and our other primate cousins, where it’s a systemic disease and we can find virus in the blood. This suggests that pigs could be infected with even nasty types of Ebola, and we wouldn’t realize it."

"Though this virus spread among the captive monkeys, no humans came down with symptoms. However, follow-up studies showed that some humans did develop an immune response to the Reston virusâ€"suggesting they had been infected, even if they didn’t realize it."

[paladin1991]

Prove me wrong.  When I'm wrong I will admit it.  FTF just spouts a figure without any justification.   I said about how many people I think should have been necessary to treat the guy.  I think it would be under 25, including the ambulance workers and corpse disposal.   If you wanted to add in admitting staff and orderlies at the beginning, maybe add another 5.  But 75?  That's insane.  How many people have you dealt with when you went into a hospital?  I have been with plenty with family members being treated for various illnesses and my personal experience is always less than 10 that they would have any contact with.  An ebola patient who is under strict quarantine should have less than that!

Are you talking direct contact?  I could believe your figure if we're talking after isolation.  But I believe we are talking a much larger number of contacts through second and third contacts fm those who were directly interacting with the patient. 
Also to consider, is the multiple reports of shoddy practices.   

[albrecht]

Are you talking direct contact?  I could believe your figure if we're talking after isolation.  But I believe we are talking a much larger number of contacts through second and third contacts fm those who were directly interacting with the patient. 
Also to consider, is the multiple reports of shoddy practices.

http://www.cdc.gov/vhf/ebola/transmission/qas.html
Q: How long does Ebola live outside the body?

A: Ebola is killed with hospital-grade disinfectants (such as household bleach). Ebola on dried on surfaces such as doorknobs and countertops can survive for several hours; however, virus in body fluids (such as blood) can survive up to several days at room temperature.

[paladin1991]

I looked at that whole "staff site anti-personelle section home template" thing and found nothing but nattering nabobs of negativity...

here a craptastic link:


R.E.M. - "Losing My Religion" In Major Scale

Only look at this if you've achieve 04 (Major in main services)

While not an 04 in main services...what is that, the Department of Water and Power?  I am a Gonorrhea  Sgt in the only military branch of service in these here United States.  The Marines.

I will look at anything I damn well please, major scale or no.  I claim that right by my own authority as a GySgt i, on par with Michael the ArchAngel.  Like Michael, I will bend a knee to no man but drop to both to worship the living GOD.

As proof, I will look at that video again.

[VtaGeezer]

I remember that I was taken aback by the photo op of the staff at Emory who were waiting eagerly to work on Dr Brantly, the first Ebola patient brought back to the US.  It was huge.  I wonder if there's an air of "exclusive club" that attracts more people than are needed or prudent. 

[paladin1991]

I think that somebody should start watching the CDC administrators families.  If they suddenly all start taking unscheduled vacations, it might be time to be concerned.

[FightTheFuture]

Unbelievably, we still have about 150 people from Ebola stricken West African countries entering this country ...PER DAY.

[paladin1991]

Well, hell.  Time to board up the friggin' house and prep for the apocalypse.  Or .... hang on.... this just occurred to me....  um....howabout....naaaah....well, maybe, try this...howzabout we just not let anyone fm those countries into ours?   

[albrecht]

Well, hell.  Time to board up the friggin' house and prep for the apocalypse.  Or .... hang on.... this just occurred to me....  um....howabout....naaaah....well, maybe, try this...howzabout we just not let anyone fm those countries into ours?

That would be racist. Political correctness trumps the country's health or safety. How much you wanna bet if it was a place like Iceland, say, that had an Ebola outbreak how quickly Obama would cut off flights?

[FightTheFuture]

Well, hell.  Time to board up the friggin' house and prep for the apocalypse.  Or .... hang on.... this just occurred to me....  um....howabout....naaaah....well, maybe, try this...howzabout we just not let anyone fm those countries into ours?

Why have borders at all?

[VtaGeezer]

That would be racist. Political correctness trumps the country's health or safety. How much you wanna bet if it was a place like Iceland, say, that had an Ebola outbreak how quickly Obama would cut off flights?

The problem isn't people coming from Africa, it's our own fucking bureaucrats and politicians.  Years to get ready for this eventuality, and so far everything's been a blatant fuck-up.

[albrecht]

Why have borders at all?

We really don't, actually.

[VtaGeezer]

We really don't, actually.

Not to bring up politics, but while Ebola runs rampant in Dallas, Gov. Rick Perry is on a week long swing through Europe for photo ops to use campaigning for Pres next year.

[FightTheFuture]

Not to bring up politics, but...

Yeah, and that`s so out of character for you.

[albrecht]

Not to bring up politics, but while Ebola runs rampant in Dallas, Gov. Rick Perry is on a week long swing through Europe for photo ops to use campaigning for Pres next year.

Yeah, I'll bet his accent has changed also when he visits over there! Note the changes to style of dress, glasses, and accent recently? On paper he is good but in practice I don't like the guy. Though he has not much to do with Ebola or what is going on. He can't even secure our border due to the Federal rules. And has very limited power even in state. The governership in Texas is a very weak position (compared to other States' governers) or using a comparison like the President of the country (now.) Purposely created to be a very weak position due to the Feds and Reconstruction and historical fear of centralized government (for good reason.)
ps: I think it is too soon to claim that Obama Ebola is "running rampant." At least yet. Once it gets into populations with bad hygiene, like our friendly illegals in their colonias, or spreads to Mexico and down we will see really "rampant" run.

[The General]

Why have borders at all?

That seems to be our current policy.
Oh how we long for the quaint days of health screening at Ellis Island.

Here's a fun thing to think about.  The flu pandemic of 1918 that infected 500 million people?  When the world's population was only 1/4 of what it is today?  That happened without the help of today's ubiquitous international commercial air travel.  That's scary shit.