Art Bell Quits Dark Matter

[malachi.martini]

they have already moved on.

Me too, I feel cleansed of this madness.  I love art, but we've really gone through all the permutations.

[tertiaryimam]

If by territorial pissing you mean that they were not too thrilled with how Art handled things the first time then yes Sirius might be less inclined to consider a new deal. The no communication since the proposal speaks volumes. They may in fact never respond as they have already moved on.

Well, what I'm thinking about is the logistics of the proposed new deal. Like, suppose I'm the Sirius executive guy. Art fucked the last deal, I know, but he has a new proposal: no pay, run independent. But art is going to be exclusively on Sirius / XM in terms of archives and whatnot. So, Sirius subscribers still get that benefit. As far as I can tell, the only downside for Sirius is that they look soft. By not paying art, they'll save a little money, and the deal with advertisements is that any add which runs on his lifestream ipso facto gets way more exposure than if it was heard only by a subscriber. They can charge a bit more for ads and make a little bit more money. Even if art shits out after a week, what is Sirius out? They've got the ad money still. They're not paying art. Yes, they have to have a website guy put up the art schedule and they've got to pay a few tech people for some of other things, I'm sure, but at the end of the day what does Sirius really have to lose?

I understand that, on a personal level, if I went into business with someone and art pulled the same shit, I'd not want to work with ever again no matter what. However, if I knew I could still make money off of them, on a business level there's no real reason not to.

And I wonder if Sirius still has money sunk into Bell which they haven't recouped.

[dan7800]

I think DM on sirius was great. Very sad that it is over, but keep things I'm context. Nobody died.

[SciFiAuthor]

Sort of worth saying this, though I hate to. If C. Crane wasn't selling enough product, then there goes the sponsorship. Art has said as much. If the subscription surge for Art started dropping dramatically at the end of the trial period, then there goes SXM's meter of how this was going. Again, Art's said as much. If Art wasn't getting the calls he needed and the quality wasn't what he felt he needed, again, Art's said as much. Well, you get the picture, how much more does it take before the show gets cancelled?

I absolutely hate writing that, I've listened to Art since 1995. I consider his style to have been the epitome of night time radio that requires a talent that won't come again. I listen to some of those old shows and it sends chills down my spine how great it was. DM was approaching that, there were times over that 7 weeks where it might as well have been 1996 because Art was back in his prime and cooking like gas. The Hoagland interview was probably the best he's done with Richard C. It was fantastic, warm and hilarious. Let's not forget Albert Taylor's enthusiasm for his robots, or the chilling statements of Charles Faddis. I have no doubt that Art knows he hit some home runs there and the show, if properly arranged (which is what Art says he's trying to do), would hit some more.... a lot of them.

But it may be that Art was simply moving while he still could. Had he not, we might have been facing no show regardless.

So cut him some slack guys. Let's wait for the yes or the no. If we get a no and Art tells us that he'll see us in two years without a fight, then by all means, go ape shit. But let's wait and see. I'm betting we'll get better than that.

And really, if Art wanted to give you all the finger, he'd have done so. Bam, close down FB, never post here again, and that's that. But we don't have that, do we? We've got Art spending time here and composing posts. We've got Paul as a freaking regular interacting. No, this is no narrative. This is what it appears to be. Let's be supportive for a while longer and see what happens.

[Xitheron]

Art-

If this doesn't work out and they try to hold you to the NC, please have an entertainment attorney look over your contract. (I'm in Nashville and have used 3 of them if you need a referral:)

There is nothing you are competing with at SXM!!!!!!!  Your audience doesn't listen to that pop culture crap. That is your argument.

Of course C2C and premiere had a case of a NC that you could be held to because you would have been in direct competition. That's not the case this with SXM. They have nothing like you there. Please don't just sit back and let SXM tell you what you can do, because they will lie to you.

If you're over the whole thing and just don't want to do it anymore, then that's up to you and you don't owe anyone anything. However if you want to be on the air, you don't have to wait 2 years. You have a case.

x

[dortmunder]

Art-

If this doesn't work out and they try to hold you to the NC, please have an entertainment attorney look over your contract. (I'm in Nashville and have used 3 of them if you need a referral:)

There is nothing you are competing with at SXM!!!!!!!  Your audience doesn't listen to that pop culture crap. That is your argument.

Of course C2C and premiere had a case of a NC that you could be held to because you would have been in direct competition. That's not the case this with SXM. They have nothing like you there. Please don't just sit back and let SXM tell you what you can do, because they will lie to you.

If you're over the whole thing and just don't want to do it anymore, then that's up to you and you don't owe anyone anything. However if you want to be on the air, you don't have to wait 2 years. You have a case.

x

You make an excellent point. Unless they start running Coast again, I suppose?

[basswood]

Art-

If this doesn't work out and they try to hold you to the NC, please have an entertainment attorney look over your contract. (I'm in Nashville and have used 3 of them if you need a referral:)

Reading that, it just popped into my mind that in a few months, Dave is going to casually bring up that he tried to help Art out by emailing him a contact for an entertainment lawyer like he did with an immigration lawyer a few years ago...

[tertiaryimam]

Reading that, it just popped into my mind that in a few months, Dave is going to casually bring up that he tried to help Art out by emailing him a contact for an entertainment lawyer like he did with an immigration lawyer a few years ago...

Dave gave a shout out to truckers all across America on his last show.

I never heard Casio on there, by the way. Did someone just make that up?

[dortmunder]

Reading that, it just popped into my mind that in a few months, Dave is going to casually bring up that he tried to help Art out by emailing him a contact for an entertainment lawyer like he did with an immigration lawyer a few years ago...

Don't you know? He's been jumping over chairs and knocking them over with his back feet for Art.

[Xitheron]

You make an excellent point. Unless they start running Coast again, I suppose?

Yeah worst case scenario would be Coast jumping back in as soon as Art left and doing a new deal with SXM and have become the dark forces at work Art keeps mentioning.

[Falkie2013]

Well, what I'm thinking about is the logistics of the proposed new deal. Like, suppose I'm the Sirius executive guy. Art fucked the last deal, I know, but he has a new proposal: no pay, run independent. But art is going to be exclusively on Sirius / XM in terms of archives and whatnot. So, Sirius subscribers still get that benefit. As far as I can tell, the only downside for Sirius is that they look soft. By not paying art, they'll save a little money, and the deal with advertisements is that any add which runs on his lifestream ipso facto gets way more exposure than if it was heard only by a subscriber. They can charge a bit more for ads and make a little bit more money. Even if art shits out after a week, what is Sirius out? They've got the ad money still. They're not paying art. Yes, they have to have a website guy put up the art schedule and they've got to pay a few tech people for some of other things, I'm sure, but at the end of the day what does Sirius really have to lose?

I understand that, on a personal level, if I went into business with someone and art pulled the same shit, I'd not want to work with ever again no matter what. However, if I knew I could still make money off of them, on a business level there's no real reason not to.

And I wonder if Sirius still has money sunk into Bell which they haven't recouped.

Well, they did spend big bucks building Art a studio and Producer guy and the call screener are out of a job too.
Art should give them a year's pay.

[basswood]

How soon before he brings up the old standby?: "He's winding down folks, he's winding down."

[Falkie2013]

Yeah worst case scenario would be Coast jumping back in as soon as Art left and doing a new deal with SXM and have become the dark forces at work Art keeps mentioning.

" HI, I'M GEORGE NOORY AND WELCOME TO DARK SUCKER. "

[zeebo]

... then by all means, go ape shit.

I think that already happened starting 279 pages ago 

[Falkie2013]

Don't you know? He's been jumping over chairs and knocking them over with his back feet for Art.

The problem in both cases is that $noory was offering art the services of Algonquin J. Calhoun.


www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGwXqxYLPaU

I can't believe there's a rock group that named itself after a shyster lawyer.
Closet Amos and Andy fandom ?


www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0R2O51DB90

[Queen]

Here is Art's House from Google Earth overhead and street level:

If I was Art i would feel really creeped out that someone would post those pics of his house, wow.

[jazmunda]

I'm Janie Come Lately tonight, and haven't read much here since yesterday morn except what Art posted last, so forgive me if my ignorance is glaring.  What just sticks out like a sore thumb to me is this part of that post from late last night:  ... "I will indeed honor my NC if they want me to and I am fairly sure they will" ...

This sounds so complacent.  No mention of hiring an attorney to fight such an unfair non-compete clause.  I do think the movie clip posted here where the guy tells Jennifer Anniston he's just not going to work anymore is the synopsis for this whole mess.  I'll resist spelling out my feelings about the game-playing I believe to be taking place.  Don't want to get sued. 

It might be Art's way of letting us down easy. Perhaps he knows the chances are slim of them accepting the proposal and this is his way of saying that he won't be fighting it. See you in 2 years .... Maybe.

[Queen]

Just throw on a little ABBA for him Nine! You go Mr. Bell, you go boy, you go boy!

nine?

[dortmunder]

nine?

[Falkie2013]

Not to damper the mood of hope and pessimism combined in here, but this is awful news. The death toll from the typhoon in the Philippines will most likely get to 10,000 or more.

And there is another storm forming in the Pacific tonight....aiming for next week directly at the places hit this weekend..

Damn. I'd read about the possible 10k dead but didn't know they're gonna get whacked a 2nd time.
That sucks.
Another good reason to not live on an island.

[Queen]

Do your initials mean something I don't know about?

Nine
Inch
Nails

[Falkie2013]

Thank you, Spirit Chaser. When I am famous I will buy you a pangolin.

[attachimg=1]

WOW. I'd never seen one of those.
I'd bet money that the pangolin would get more listeners than Noory.
More callers too.

[Scully]

Exactly. I am just dumbfounded that Art signed another NC. He may say, "Well, there was no deal without it". Well, okay, so what? The NC should have been a huge warning buzzer to not sign the deal. Looking at this situation from outside, admittedly, it just looks like Art did this deal by himself. That just astounds me. I don't care how experienced someone thinks they are, or how much smarter they think they are than lawyers, or how much they think they hate lawyers, there's a reason to hire them: because they can be objective, and can remove themselves from the deal and think rationally. Even a lawyer should never negotiate for himself in his own business deal. That was just stupid if it happened like that.

Second, a lawyer acts as a cutout with the company. When you represent yourself, you're there across the table from the company's lawyers. They not only are negotiating by words, they're taking in the little things, like body language. And if you're there in the room - or even just on the phone or by email because it works to some extent like that as well - with the company's lawyers, they can look at you and pretty much tell what it is you really want; what's important to you; what's BS; and what you're scared of. Most importantly, they can tell what you're willing to give up to get a deal. When a lawyer represents you, the other guys can't find those things out.

I think Art represented himself, and came across as so desperate to get back on the radio - desperate enough that he'd take a tiny salary for the promise of pie-in-the-sky ad revenue down the road. (And remember that the company controls access to and all books showing what ad revenues are supposed to be.)  And they could tell that Art, even though he had just come off a massive NC term of a decade (truly a terrible NC clause, the others I've heard were 2, 4, maybe 5 years) he would be willing to do another NC. And that gave Sirius the advantage.

I'm sorry if I'm hurting Art's feelings - not my purpose. I know I can't know the details of the negotiations. But I bet I know the general situation, and I bet I'm right about Art representing himself. And he impetuously entered a bad deal with a weak company, and then he just as impetuously wanted to wash his hands of it. Except it wasn't that easy because of the shitty deal he made. And he's let himself and countless fans down. But he has no one but himself to blame.

Excellent post, Sardondi.  My question to Art would be where/how these important negotiations have taken place.  Did I miss something or do we know if Art handled any of these meetings in person?  I'm concerned that some or all of this has been done by phone or email.  Smoke signals, maybe???  (Nah, that last one was a jab.)

I can only go by what I would have done myself, but I would have flown to wherever the big guys hang out, which I suppose is Washington, D.C.  And I certainly would have done so on this second go-round, with my hat in my humble hand.  But that's just me.  What can I tell you?  For many years I was married to a lawyer. I know how it works.

[Queen]

Art should write out a script for 1 full show and have MV play the part of Art and let everything Art wants to say be herd that would be neat

[Queen]

And, so, what?

Do your initials mean something I don't know about?

You asked and I told you

[basswood]

You asked and I told you

LOL Enjoying watching this unfold...

[ItsOver]

“The wind no longer blows, in the end it was all a bunch of Richard C. Hoagland..."

[mattjs2732]

If I was Art i would feel really creeped out that someone would post those pics of his house, wow.

Actually, Art has pics of his house already on his QRZ page.

[Queen]

LOL Enjoying watching this unfold...

maybe i missed something lol someone askes me something i tell them then they get mad cos i answered them. lol

[Queen]

Actually, Art has pics of his house already on his QRZ page.

well thats HIS page lol