The GOP & the Christian Right

Started by bateman, October 10, 2013, 06:04:09 PM

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NowhereInTime

Quote from: Quick Karl on October 13, 2013, 09:30:23 PM
Well, let's just see how 2014 goes, and we'll call 2012 the final chance we gave em... In fact, I am hopeful that Establishment schmucks will cut a deal with the Dems, because that will seal their fate.

That is why they had to go along with Lee and Cruz - the voters ARE speaking, like it or not.

I have personally pledged to McCain and Flake, via letter, that I will write-in Vladimir Putin's name if either of them ever runs for anything I can vote on, ever again, and have written to the RNC promising to do precisely the same if they nominate another Establishment tool.

A storm is coming...
You accuse Cynnie of behaving like a 14 year old girl when you behave like a 7 yr old boy. Take your ball and go home.
John McCain, a real life war hero, gets my support over Shirtless Vlad any day of the week.  End of story.

Quick Karl

Your knees are knocking, NWIT.

Quote from: NowhereInTime on October 13, 2013, 09:48:44 PM
You accuse Cynnie of behaving like a 14 year old girl when you behave like a 7 yr old boy. Take your ball and go home.
John McCain, a real life war hero, gets my support over Shirtless Vlad any day of the week.  End of story.


Quick Karl

I think the poll proves my point - The People ARE sick of the Republican Establishment, and it is time to get rid of them and replace them will people that are willing to fight for the issues that are important to The People that vote for them.

Quote from: RealCool Daddio on October 13, 2013, 10:09:26 PM
Oh, they're speaking alright:
http://www.gallup.com/poll/165317/republican-party-favorability-sinks-record-low.aspx

Quote from: Quick Karl on October 13, 2013, 10:13:49 PM
I think the poll proves my point - The People ARE sick of the Republican Establishment, and it is time to get rid of them and replace them will people that are willing to fight for the issues that are important to The People that vote for them.
Except for the simple fact that the Tea Party folks you admire are the same ones that have forced the Republicans into a far right corner.  These low numbers are not reflective of some general displeasure with classical liberal principles - they are a resounding rejection of the extreme right beliefs of the Tea Party radicals by middle America.

Quick Karl

You can project whatever you want to into the results of the poll - but I can assure you, there is a tsunami of disgust within the ranks of The People that typically vote the Republican ticket, and they will not be voting for the status quo in 2014 and beyond, and THAT is why you've seen McCain and Graham go into hiding, and why they are now trying to reposition themselves.

The panic about the Tea Party says more about those opposed to it than needs to be said.

Quote from: RealCool Daddio on October 13, 2013, 11:11:20 PM
Except for the simple fact that the Tea Party folks you admire are the same ones that have forced the Republicans into a far right corner.  These low numbers are not reflective of some general displeasure with classic liberal principles - they are a resounding rejection of the extreme right beliefs of the Tea Party radicals by middle America.

Quote from: Quick Karl on October 13, 2013, 11:22:19 PM
You can project whatever you want to into the results of the poll - but I can assure you, there is a tsunami of disgust within the ranks of The People that typically vote the Republican ticket, and they will not be voting for the status quo in 2014 and beyond, and THAT is why you've seen McCain and Graham go into hiding, and why they are now trying to reposition themselves.

The panic about the Tea Party says more about those opposed to it than needs to be said.
Again, you attempt to paint a picture of a populist movement with widespread support - when the numbers prove that is simply not true.  While I understand that it is human nature to assume that the majority have similar belief systems to one's own, in this case you are a member of a minority.

Don't worry, it's cool to be part of a subculture - there once was a time when I spiked my hair and wore mascara and black lipstick.  There is room in this great country for all kinds of fringe groups - Zoarastrians, Druids, Devo fans, vegans, snake handlers, Samoans, Bruins fans, lesbian gymnasts, Fox Network pundits, Volvo owners, Kardashians, Stream Link subscribers, pagans, climate change deniers, Butthole Surfers, Tea Party Patriots, birthers, Juggalos, Manchester United supporters .....

Quick Karl

Let me guess - you learned your debating skills from that infamous book: Rules for Adolescents? Is your next strategy to say that you're rubber and I am glue?

Quote from: RealCool Daddio on October 13, 2013, 11:49:06 PM
Again, you attempt to paint a picture of a populist movement with widespread support - when the numbers prove that is simply not true.  While I understand that it is human nature to assume that the majority have similar belief systems to one's own, in this case you are a member of a minority.

Don't worry, it's cool to be part of a subculture - there once was a time when I spiked my hair and wore mascara and black lipstick.  There is room in this great country for all kinds of fringe groups - Zoarastrians, Druids, Devo fans, vegans, snake handlers, Samoans, Bruins fans, lesbian gymnasts, Fox Network pundits, Volvo owners, Kardashians, Stream Link subscribers, pagans, climate change deniers, Butthole Surfers, Tea Party Patriots, birthers, Juggalos, Manchester United supporters .....

Quote from: RealCool Daddio on October 13, 2013, 11:11:20 PM
Except for the simple fact that the Tea Party folks you admire are the same ones that have forced the Republicans into a far right corner.  These low numbers are not reflective of some general displeasure with classical liberal principles - they are a resounding rejection of the extreme right beliefs of the Tea Party radicals by middle America.



Could you or anyone list a few of the Tea Party beliefs you think are extreme?

Quote from: Quick Karl on October 13, 2013, 11:59:27 PM
... Adolescents...
Baptists, Cheney endorsers, Iowans, Trotskyites, sodommites and Sean Hannity viewers...


Falkie2013

Quote from: SciFiAuthor on October 12, 2013, 05:04:01 PM
It always surprises me when I see an anti-blacklisting comment. I mean, we blacklist times ten today. If you say the slightest politically incorrect thing on the internet--much less get photographed attending a neo-Nazi or Klan rally--you'll have a hell of a time finding meaningful employment if the employer comes across it in a Google search. Perhaps rightfully so, I don't think anyone wants to see the Nazis or the Klan gaining power and influence again.

That said, Communism was, by far, the most deadly ideology ever concocted by man. The 20th century's biggest murderer was not Hitler, as bad as he was. It was Stalin. Pol Pot, Mao, also both mass murderers. Yet communism gets a pass, for some reason, as though none of that happened. By all rights it should be up there with Nazism on the list of distasteful condemnable ideologies.

Somewhere between the end of McCarthyism and now, I guess public television has made enough emotive documentaries about Hollywood blacklisting that it "stuck" in the public mind as some kind of atrocity, when in fact it was a response to real atrocities that now seem forgotten.

To the Left and the ultra Left, the exposure of Communists in Hollywood, the media, and the State Department was an atrocity.
Of course and unfortunately, the " atrocity " didn't go far enough or deep enough.
The Lefists in the media entrenched ( as well as those in academia ) and turned inside out traitorous behavior as martyrdom and indoctrinated generations of journalists to their way of thinking, where being a Conservative is now seen as inherently evil and being a " Progressive ", " liberal ", etc. is inherently good.
Of course, one thing they had to do is drop the label of being a socialist. That didn't work. So they re-branded themselves and got a radical socialist finally elected as Presicent.
Eventually, the tide will turn, as those who think ( instead of only seeing race as the prime criteria for election to the office ) see what a fraud we got for 2 terms as well as the debacle known as Obamacare, but the damage of that and other policies of this administration may well be irreperable.

Quote from: Falkie2013 on October 14, 2013, 12:25:13 AM
... the damage of that and other policies of this administration may well be irreperable.



That is their goal - irreparable damage. 

They have to destroy what we have before they can 'fundamentally change this nation'.  Look no further than Obama making zero attempt to get the economy going again, while throwing up any obstacles he can.  Look at his foreign policy failures with our biggest concerns - Muslim jihad, relations with China and Russia, and working to keep strong ties with our allies.

WildCard

Quote from: Paper*Boy on October 14, 2013, 12:08:26 AM
Could you or anyone list a few of the Tea Party beliefs you think are extreme?
Specifically, demanding tax cuts AND deficit reduction. In wartime, no less - war which they wholeheartedly support.

Generally, everything  -
http://politicalhumor.about.com/od/stupidquotes/a/glenn-beck-quotes.htm
http://politicalhumor.about.com/od/sarahpalin/a/palin-top-10.htm
http://politicalhumor.about.com/od/republicans/a/michele-bachmann-quotes.htm




Falkie2013

Quote from: WildCard on October 14, 2013, 01:28:46 AM
Specifically, demanding tax cuts AND deficit reduction. In wartime, no less - war which they wholeheartedly support.

Generally, everything  -
http://politicalhumor.about.com/od/stupidquotes/a/glenn-beck-quotes.htm
http://politicalhumor.about.com/od/sarahpalin/a/palin-top-10.htm
http://politicalhumor.about.com/od/republicans/a/michele-bachmann-quotes.htm

Would you mind explaiining just what is so extreme about tax cuts and deficit reduction ?
JFK cut the capital gains tax and we had growth before we got into Vietnam.
We cannot realistically spend ourselves into fiscal oblivion indefinitely.
Sooner or later the house of cards will collapse as all bubbles inevitably do.
And the Tea Party while advocating most of what Beck and Bachman say does not advocate war.
In fact,most of  our wars have been gotten into ( with the exception of the Gulf War/War in Iraq ) by Democrats.

WWI - Wison
WWII - FDR
Korea - Truman
Vietnam - JFK/Johnson
Bosnia - Clinton

Quick Karl

Glen Beck is a psychotic - he doesn't speak for me and he doesn't speak for LOTS of people that ARE opposed to Obama and the leftist agenda. And it is pure dishonesty to endeavor to connect what a talking head says to an entire block of voters.

Beck is as psychologically and intellectually untrustworthy as is Chris Matthews and Richard Maddow and Al Sharpton.

Obama can end all the wars we are involved in with the stroke of his pen - why isn't he doing it?


Quote from: WildCard on October 14, 2013, 01:28:46 AM
Specifically, demanding tax cuts AND deficit reduction. In wartime, no less - war which they wholeheartedly support.

Generally, everything  -
http://politicalhumor.about.com/od/stupidquotes/a/glenn-beck-quotes.htm
http://politicalhumor.about.com/od/sarahpalin/a/palin-top-10.htm
http://politicalhumor.about.com/od/republicans/a/michele-bachmann-quotes.htm


WildCard

Quote from: Falkie2013 on October 14, 2013, 01:37:23 AM
Would you mind explaiining just what is so extreme about tax cuts and deficit reduction ?
It's trying to have your cake and eat it too. So, just cut spending? I agree, but from where?

You're about my age, so you remember when a working class man could buy a home and support a family. What went wrong? What happened to the middle class?

"Interestingly, the wealth gap in the U.S. is nothing new. According to the Economic Policy Institute, the wealth gap has increased by a mere 2.2 percentage points since 1962 [source: Allegretto]. The rich, apparently, have always been a lot richer. What's more alarming is that income levels have grown at increasingly uneven rates in recent decades. According to a 2011 report by the Congressional Budget Office, the income for the top 1 percent of earners grew by 275 percent from 1979 to 2007, while the income for middle-class Americans (the 21st through 80th percentile) grew by less than 40 percent [source: CBO]."
http://money.howstuffworks.com/one-percent-control-third-of-wealth.htm

I'm not a Socialist. I cut my teeth on John Galt's speech. It looked great on paper but, like communism, it's a nightmare in practice. I don't care if the richest 10 percent of Americans control 75 percent of the wealth. I DO care that the working poor die broke. We live in a plutocracy. Now that corporations are people and money is speech, it can only get worse.

Quote from: Falkie2013 on October 14, 2013, 01:37:23 AM
JFK cut the capital gains tax and we had growth before we got into Vietnam.
"The top marginal tax rate was 91 percent, which JFK wanted reduced to a "more sensible" 65 percent. Compare that with today's 35 percent top rate, and ask: If supply-siders are so enamored of JFK's tax policies, would they advocate a return to a "more sensible" 65 percent top rate? Applying Kennedy's tax talk to the current structure, JFK biographer Robert Dallek says, is like comparing "apples and watermelons."
http://www.usnews.com/opinion/articles/2011/01/26/the-myth-of-jfk-as-supply-side-tax-cutter

Also, as you say, "before we got into Vietnam". Guns and Butter.
Quote from: Falkie2013 on October 14, 2013, 01:37:23 AM
We cannot realistically spend ourselves into fiscal oblivion indefinitely.
Sooner or later the house of cards will collapse as all bubbles inevitably do.
I hear ya. I thought it was gonna pop when daddy Bush was President. Then Clinton . . . well you know the rest.
Quote from: Falkie2013 on October 14, 2013, 01:37:23 AM
And the Tea Party while advocating most of what Beck and Bachman say does not advocate war.
In fact,most of  our wars have been gotten into ( with the exception of the Gulf War/War in Iraq ) by Democrats.

WWI - Wison
WWII - FDR
Korea - Truman
Vietnam - JFK/Johnson
Bosnia - Clinton
I wasn't implying that the Republicans are hawks and the Democrats are doves. And nobody's more disillusioned than me in Obama. He's just the lesser of two evils.

"Tomorrow we hear who has won this year's Nobel Peace Prize. Of course, most of the previous recipients have been deserving. Some less so. When Henry Kissinger was awarded it in 1973, Tom Lehrer quipped that the prize, "made political satire obsolete."

The same could be said about the award that went to Barack Obama in 2009. It summed up his whole political career â€" celebrated before he'd actually done anything, the jar into which millions of liberals poured their dreams, and, most importantly, an utter disappointment when in office.

- Far from ending the adventurism of his predecessor, Barack Obama surged troop numbers in Afghanistan, bombed Libya and was only prevented from going into Syria by public opposition to the sheer insanity of the idea.

- Under his watchful gaze the Middle East is arguably less stable today than when his presidency started. There is civil war in Syria, a kidnapped prime minister in Libya, revolution in Egypt. It's been a particularly hard few years for the remaining Christians.

- He's engaged in a drone strike campaign that would make Bush blush.
George W Bush conducted 45 drone strikes as President, killing 477. Barack Obama conducted 316 drone strikes, killing 2,363.
"
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/timstanley/100240913/obama-has-killed-thousands-with-drones-so-can-the-nobel-committee-have-their-peace-prize-back/

Juan

Quote from: WildCard on October 14, 2013, 06:09:20 AM
You're about my age, so you remember when a working class man could buy a home and support a family. What went wrong? What happened to the middle class?
I'm probably a little older than you, and I lived through the change.  What happened was a combination of things.  First came the increased taxes to pay for Vietnam and the rest of Johnson's guns and butter programs.  Second came the women's movement in which women entered the workplace in large numbers, increasing the number of workers and driving down demand.  Lower demand means lower wages.  Which caused real problems because many of the women who entered the workplace did so because the family needed more money to pay the increased taxes.  Third was the technological revolution that eliminated a lot of the high paying union manufacturing jobs. 

It would appear that the Laffer curve is correct.  There is a point of taxation at which the revenue to government is maximized.  I agreed with George H. W. Bush that this was voodoo economics, but after reviewing the tax cuts during the Kennedy and Reagan administrations, the concept works.  That does not mean, however, that just cutting taxes now will produce greater government revenue.  I don't know that the Republicans are right on this.

Quote from: WildCard on October 14, 2013, 06:09:20 AM
... "The top marginal tax rate was 91 percent, which JFK wanted reduced to a "more sensible" 65 percent. Compare that with today's 35 percent top rate, and ask: If supply-siders are so enamored of JFK's tax policies, would they advocate a return to a "more sensible" 65 percent top rate? Applying Kennedy's tax talk to the current structure, JFK biographer Robert Dallek says, is like comparing "apples and watermelons."...



IT's the trend, or direction the tax rates are going, that's important.



Quote from: UFO Fill on October 14, 2013, 06:35:16 AM
...  That does not mean, however, that just cutting taxes now will produce greater government revenue.  I don't know that the Republicans are right on this.



It depends on which taxes, what other policies are in place, the economic environment, etc

Quote from: Paper*Boy on October 14, 2013, 12:08:26 AM


Could you or anyone list a few of the Tea Party beliefs you think are extreme?
Repeal of Roe/Wade.  Support of DOMA and similar initiatives. Teaching of "intelligent" design.

You might want to wander over to TeaPart.org.  60+ time Noory guest Jerome Corsi, one of the new darlings of the movement, has a front page article up.

[/i]You will know them by the company they keep.

Quick Karl

A copy of an email I am very proud to have received:

Dear Mr. ******:

It was great to meet with you.

Please look upon me as your ally in this war for the Soul of America. I stand ready to assist at a moment’s notice.
                                                                                               
Sincerely,

Elbert

Tammy Babineaux
Legislative Assistant
Senator Elbert Lee Guillory,
Representing Louisiana's 24th District

If you haven't heard this man speak, you should!

Quick Karl

Daddio, you remind me of a homosexual at work. Its as if you are both reading from the same script...


Quote from: RealCool Daddio on October 14, 2013, 12:36:51 PM
Repeal of Roe/Wade.  Support of DOMA and similar initiatives. Teaching of "intelligent" design.

You might want to wander over to TeaPart.org.  60+ time Noory guest Jerome Corsi, one of the new darlings of the movement, has a front page article up.

[/i]You will know them by the company they keep.

onan

Quote from: Quick Karl on October 14, 2013, 12:53:49 PM
Daddio, you remind me of a homosexual at work. Its as if you are both reading from the same script...

It beats your script.

Quote from: Quick Karl on October 14, 2013, 12:53:49 PM
Daddio, you remind me of a homosexual at work. Its as if you are both reading from the same script...
I knew you would out yourself as a bigot sooner or later.  Or will you post an e-mail from a gay person's secretary to prove how tolerant you are?

Quick Karl

 See now, here is where you destroy even the slightest legitimacy you may imagine you have, and I can prove it, with scientific fact.

Quote from: RealCool Daddio on October 14, 2013, 12:36:51 PM
Teaching of "intelligent" design.

You may be incapable, emotionally and intellectually, of contemplating the utter incomprehensibility of how life, and The Universe came to be - the fact that living, breathing, thinking (excluding you of course) humans are made up of the same electrons, protons, neutrons, and all of the other sub-atomic particles, that may not, in fact, even be particles, but like photons, can act like particles or energy waves concurrently, are the very same materials that rocks (like in your head), mountains, the Planets, the Stars, Galaxies, and the Universe is made up of!

Then you can step back and contemplate the nervous system in any life form, but in particular in a human, and, if you can't be utterly floored by it's incomprehensibility, how anything so complex can even BE. The neural network is so fantastic that, well, you'll obviously never get it - but, follow along anyway, if you haven't glazed over yet.

Then we can make a leap to the fact that not even the most intelligent minds alive, or that have ever lived, have the slightest fucking clue, where all this stuff we are made up of, comes from, or how the fuck it organized itself into all of the known elements listed on the periodic table, or how that theoretically inert stuff combines to produce something ALIVE.

So finally we arrive at this fact - to believe that all of the above popped into existence one day, from absolutely nothing, in the middle of absolutely nothing, is even MORE stupid than believing that something FAR beyond human comprehension, is out there... To argue against intelligent design in the face of the fantastically -- to propose, as a means to justify personal choices that others believe is socially corrosive, that intelligent design is invalid, is so stupid that it defies description.

Over the millenniums, peopled 'called' this incomprehensibility "God". But no one has the slightest clue what is really out there, period.

But you shouldn't cry like a little girl when you go out of your way to insult the beliefs of people that disagree with your lifestyle choice, and they show you how stupid you are.


onan

Quote from: Quick Karl on October 14, 2013, 01:27:56 PM
The neural network is so fantastic that, well, you'll obviously never get it - but, follow along anyway, if you haven't glazed over yet.

Please enlighten me, on your knowledge about neural pathways. Please share your understandings of synaptic responses.

Or at least explain the similarity in chemical responses and how physiological structures in the brain are similar and different to other species?

Please, do tell how, evolution gets it wrong and intelligent design gets it right.


Quote from: Quick Karl on October 14, 2013, 01:27:56 PM
...prove...scientific fact...
You obviously don't know what these words mean. 

Quote from: Quick Karl on October 14, 2013, 01:27:56 PM
But you shouldn't cry like a little girl when you go out of your way to insult the beliefs of people that disagree with your lifestyle choice...
My lifestyle choice? I didn't choose heterosexuality, The FSM (may you be touched by His Noodly Appendage) made me this way.  Just like He made you a dimwit.

Hey, QuickKarl...  gotta say, you lost me, too, with the homosexual remark.  To be honest, political debate is very difficult.  As I've noted dozens of times on this forum, Joe has his facts and statistics, and Bob has his.  Joe's sources are always indisputable.  Bob's sources are junk.  Joe's behavior and beliefs always stem from honesty, courage, hard work... we all know, however, that Bob's a lazy, dishonest ne'er-do-well.

Political debate is still more difficult when you throw in the amount of intellectual effort it really takes to try to present one's point of view... sooner or later, it is all to easy to resort to the politics of the personal, to bring up someone's religion (or lack thereof), race, sexuality, etc.  I see it on both sides.  On the Limbaugh thread under talk radio, I do see people who'd probably identify themselves as good and true progressives commenting on Rush's weight, which, really, is neither here nor there.  I see people who'd describe themselves as tolerant and open-minded comment on someone's gayness or physical appearance.  Look, I think that Ann Coulter is not an attractive woman.  I think Michelle Malkin is, physically, a knockout.  I disagree almost entirely with both women's politics.  But if I start basing my disagreement with them on aspects of their physical being they can't really change (race, facial appearance, body weight, sexuality, etc.), I'm really getting derailed, don't you think?

We need to see each other with better eyes.

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