Started by bateman, October 10, 2013, 06:04:09 PM
Quote from: SciFiAuthor on October 12, 2013, 05:04:01 PMThat said, Communism was, by far, the most deadly ideology ever concocted by man. The 20th century's biggest murderer was not Hitler, as bad as he was. It was Stalin. Pol Pot, Mao, also both mass murderers. Yet communism gets a pass, for some reason, as though none of that happened. By all rights it should be up there with Nazism on the list of distasteful condemnable ideologies.
Quote from: Quick Karl on October 12, 2013, 09:21:01 AMNWIT, can you say Bernanke, Geithner, Lew, Paulson, Blankfein... I could go on, probably for a few hours...
Quote from: West of the Rockies on October 12, 2013, 11:22:21 AMYou ask an intriguing (and loaded) question, Nowhere... I know that research suggests that the voting block members of the Republican and Democratic parties are roughly equally well-educated. (I suspect different studies reveal different results.) The careers you mention (journalism, academia, acting) are more-or-less humanities-based fields. My understanding is that engineering and finance tend to attract conservatives in larger measure.
Quote from: Quick Karl on October 12, 2013, 07:02:07 PMName one society wherein communism works as advertised and hasn't been corrupted by totalitarian zealots, and to which the poor of the world are clamoring to get in to.I dare you.
Quote from: Quick Karl on October 12, 2013, 07:57:16 PMâ€œPeace, Jobs, and Democracy.â€The official slogan of the Communist Party under Stalin...
Quote from: NowhereInTime on October 12, 2013, 11:31:18 PMYou seem to have all the quotes and slogans memorized, Comrade. ..
Quote from: NowhereInTime on October 12, 2013, 06:51:15 PMCommunism was a populist blanket for zealot revolution, much like "National Socialism". "Communist" idealogues spoke against the institutional oppressors, be they Czars, gangster generalissimos, or whatever. The idea of equality so appealed to people that they fought and died for it around the world. Of course, much like the Muslim Brotherhood usurpation of the "Arab Spring" uprising in Tahrir Square, a group of well organized reactionaries seized upon the leadership of these "communist" movements for their own cycnical power grab (see: "Castro, Fidel") Others used Communism as a uniter against colonial power (see: "Minh, Ho-Chi") and were forced to defend their nationalism by our "cowboy up" escapades on the behalf of western colonialism. "Communism" gets a "pass" (if it really does) because we have yet to see actual communist government on this planet. As a philosphy, it underrates the need for individuals to compete against each other to proove dominance (see: "Party, Grand Ole") nor does it truly weigh the value of certain skills and disciplines versus others. That is why it cannot work. But to blame "communism" as some deadly scourge is to wholesale ignore the motivations of the most fundamentally power driven in many societies who used it to appeal to socio-economically unsecure people who felt like the elite in their country were ignoring their plight. (see: "Boy, Paper)
Quote from: West of the Rockies on October 13, 2013, 10:30:16 AMSciFiAuthor wrote: "Yes, yes, the old real communism has never been tried argument. It's actually that real communism, no matter what adjustment of Marxism you wish to try, always begins to fail because you simply cannot get everyone on the same page ideologically."Of course, getting everyone on the same page ideologically-speaking is the challenge for any and all systems of government. Witness what's been going on here in the states for a while. We hold elections, the losing side for the last 13 years wonders if maybe there was tampering/election fraud, but life goes on. Other voices clamor for secession because they did not get their way and "want their country back". It's not like even in a free and fair democracy there are no substantial differences of opinion. To what degree the discontented are willing to try to wrest control to get their way is difficult to predict. We have largely-peaceful protests (most of the participants of TeaParty gatherings, most of the OWS crowd)... We have others who spike trees, occupy university administration buildings or blow up federal buildings and abortion clinics. Anyway, as always, beware the easy answers. Oh, and TANSTAAFL.
Quote from: SciFiAuthor on October 13, 2013, 03:23:23 PMWith communism, it simply won't work unless everyone holds the identical ideology. That's why communists have universally gone to great lengths to force, coerce and eliminate in hopes of unifying everyone. If they don't, the system stops working and they are removed from power before their vision can be enacted. I think the key is in a democratic republic that operates openly and honestly. We used to have that, though I'm not sure we do anymore. As long as you can keep the corruption down, people will live with the results of an honest election. Since we didn't keep the corruption down--I doubt there are ten honest men in Congress--we suffer the consequences. The corruption is actually institutional now; when you see politicians getting elected on promises of providing free stuff at what works out to be at the expense of the political opposition, then you've got institutional corruption running from the voter to the politician they're electing. Corrupt from the common man to the top. It's no wonder that such a thing ultimately leads to severe division and resentment, as we have now.On the right the institutional corruption is the good old boys network of defense contractors and oil men that somehow ended up at the top of the Republican Party and ran it into the ground. What good is anything if the people at the top are so seedy that they've disqualified themselves from winning anything? Yet rank and file republicans will still, by and large, blindly defend free trade, which has failed and gutted the US economy permanently and was born from George Bush I's corruption, and up until recently take a hawkish stance on anything (McCain still does) despite the Iraq war, apparently, having been based on a huge lie. That too is ideological corruption on the part of the voter.As long as we have that culture of corruption, the US will eventually turn itself into a third world country.
Quote from: Cynnie on October 13, 2013, 03:47:49 PMMost of the republicans i know aren't particularly religious .So im thinking the tea party isnt going to last too long mainly because theres going to be a split between the real republicans and the nutjobs. And hopefully most conservatives are sane.There has always been the crazy ass holy roller conservatives ..always. Just nowdays instead of riding around in trucks covered in jesus graffiti , they get online and pick fights with all the normal people.
Quote from: Quick Karl on October 13, 2013, 03:51:44 PMI feel the same way about those emotionally unstable liberals that spend their time online venting their hysterical vitriol at people that do not prostrate themselves to the incomprehensible wisdom of liberal thought and hate-speak...
Quote from: Cynnie on October 13, 2013, 03:53:51 PMThis is America baby! You get to be a dinosaur allll day long.
Quote from: Cynnie on October 13, 2013, 03:47:49 PM...the real republicans and the nutjobs...
Quote from: RealCool Daddio on October 13, 2013, 04:00:52 PMTough to tell them apart these days.
Quote from: NowhereInTime on October 13, 2013, 04:04:20 PMCynnie got it right: idiots.
Quote from: Quick Karl on October 13, 2013, 04:08:59 PMYour intellect is mind-boggling.
Quote from: NowhereInTime on October 13, 2013, 04:22:47 PMThank you! Gosh after the "traitor" comment I'm glad you still had a little love in your heart!
Quote from: Cynnie on October 13, 2013, 04:23:50 PM this is such a love-fest
Quote from: Quick Karl on October 13, 2013, 03:34:35 PMI do see one critical difference though - a multitude of Republican voters are SICK of the corruption and collusion of their Representatives (and I suspect will make that emphatically clear in the 2014 Election) while the same appears non-existent on the left. This leads one to conclude that left voters, in fact, revel in the dishonesty of their Representative. To me, this is far and above, the most disturbing issue I find with proponents of the left - the refusal to hold themselves and their own Representative to the same level of scrutiny to which they bombard anyone opposed to their dogmas.
Quote from: SciFiAuthor on October 13, 2013, 07:24:43 PMThat certainly seems true about the republicans, but there's a problem: it hasn't shown in the primaries so far. It's the same old McCains, Bush family, Romneys and the like. The chance for change was very present in the last primary, but it didn't happen. In the end, it was Romney's turn for a shot, he was the ordained one that had been sitting in line for a while, just like it had been McCain's and the republican voter simply fell in line. Sick the republican voter may be of corruption but they always seem to vote for that same old cabal at the end of the day.The left, on the other hand, is completely united. Actually they do sort of revel in the dishonesty of their leadership, and that's not normally something I would extend so far as to say. After I saw Pelosi come out and give her "We have to pass it before you can find out what's in it" gem, I knew then that something had gone very wrong on the left. You never, under any circumstances, EVER accept such a statement from a politician (or anyone in authority, for that matter). That's an inherently dangerous methodology that CANNOT be logically supported, it is always tyrannical. Yet, they didn't even challenge her on it. I guess they've lost their anti-authoritarian streak from the 60's and have become "the establishment".I don't know how they're going to keep their youth vote with that kind of flaunting of authority.