snoory's first appearance, was he ever good?

[henge0stone]

When did George first start on Coast? I assume its sometime after 01 when siegel took over. I'm onto 2002 in the archive and George is already getting mentioned a few times. When did he start and how long before he was full time? Was he ever good? I remember Art saying he was doing good. I honestly have heard good Norry shows but they were good because the guest was good and no thanks to Noory.

[Morgus]

Art retired at the start of 2000 and Siegel took over c2c for most of 2000 but he was fired later that year due to very low ratings.
The network pleaded to Art to return and he did so in early 2001 and stayed main host until the end of 2002 when Noory took over as main c2c host (now 13 years)
However during 2002 Art had major back problems and so the network had to use a variety of guest hosts a lot so Noory was one of those and did a few guest host spots on c2c during 2002 until he was selected as the new c2c host when Art retired again.

I vaguely recall Noory wasn't as bad on those few c2c guest spots back then, probably because in effect he was auditioning for the job and had to be on best behavior?
Once he got the hosting gig, he gradually got worse and as he got comfortable that he had the job locked in for the longterm and signed long term contracts. He can afford to be lazy now and so thats the kind of shows he delivers nowadays. Now he seems more interested in his side businesses and gets the guest hosts to push them too (internet streaming TV show, paranormal date, paid convention appearances, etc)
It seems to be that too much of the talk on the shows now is Noory or a guest host pushing his side ventures, rather than getting to interviewing the guest of the night!

[PB the Deplorable]

... Once he got the hosting gig, he gradually got worse and as he got comfortable that he had the job locked in...

The further Art got from the show, the worse George got.  The closer Art gets to returning, whether last time on XM or this time, the more the Snorge tries to focus and up his game.

George hates his job, loves the paycheck and attention.  He's dumb and lazy.  He'd rather pretend he's a nice guy on air and go around schmoozing people at events to get fans and listeners than try to improve.

That about right, George?

[ItsOver]

The further Art got from the show, the worse George got.  The closer Art gets to returning, whether last time on XM or this time, the more the Snorge tries to focus and up his game.

George hates his job, loves the paycheck and attention.  He's dumb and lazy.  He'd rather pretend he's a nice guy on air and go around schmoozing people at events to get fans and listeners than try to improve.

That about right, George?

I'll save lazy Jorch the effort.  "Getta life hater."  Now back to my roasted rat dinner.

[Wintermute]

Jorch wasn't bad at all in the beginning (2002-2003ish time frame). I remember thinking "this guy will be alright". I don't listen enough to intelligently pick Jorch apart. First, it's mean. Second, if I hear 4 hours of C2C a month, it's an exception. That said, today's Jorch is not good and doesn't keep me engaged. If C2C did, I might listen more, but Jorch seems checked-out and the guests aren't entertaining.

Art will have the same issues:
1. Sustaining a pseudo-sci radio show without checking-out after nut-ball guests.
2. The topics are way overdone and the same subjects have been rehashed to potato strings.
3. There is only so much to say and 3-4hrs seems to be a bit of a marathon.
4. Getting legit, interesting guests when your track record is B.S. topics.

Tough, and I'd add that there are hundreds of podcasters doing it better.     Jorch was ok at one point. So was Art. Time takes it's toll. Tastes and technology change.

Top Dollar said it the best: "A man has an idea. The idea attracts others, like-minded. The idea expands. The idea becomes an institution. What was the idea?"

[UnscreenedCaller]

I listened to Snoory when he filled in and when he first took over and thought he'd be alright. He was trying back in the beginning, like every night was an audition for the job. Gradually, he became comfortable but it took a couple of years before it became obvious he was beginning to phone it in. I never expected him to be Art. Art is unique, and it's unfair to expect anyone to be a clone, but I expected Snoory to keep involved and not let the show devolve into fringe politics, medical quackery and guests who aren't interviewed properly.


At the time, I had a subscription to download the shows, before it became the obnoxious Insider Club. I gradually became aware that Snoory was more irritating than informative and I downloaded more of Arts old shows than his. Then I joined Fantastic Forum and after a while here came the libel letter and we all watched Snoory's 'nice guy' demeanor drop and the real personality emerge. In the beginning, I thought people were unfair to him, that he was a nice guy but then the more I listened, the more the laziness and lack of interest in his job stood out. He needs someone like Art to keep him in line. Without a strong competitor or someone to keep him honest, Snoory just phones it in, relying on his 'nice guy' status and the show's history to carry him through.


The problem with him is he's comfortable now, and has no challengers or so he thinks, but I think all the supernatural elements available on various media outlets are chipping away at his listener base and now Art's return is scaring him, because if t here's one thing Snoory knows, it's that he's not in the same league. With a little effort, he could have been a very good host, but he chose the lazy way.

[JokerFace]

I've often have wondered if anyone here used to listen to George's "Night Hawk" show on KTRS/St. Louis and if so, was the show any good.

[Dateline]

At the time periods you are discussion pre-2008 about that time, I really enjoyed the show.  I learned from it.  I looked forward to it.  Now it seems, it is all about Norry, and watered-down.  I was drawn in to the longer interviews, and stayed up late even with Norry to here it.  Now, I am not listening enough to claim to be a listener.  I did find Norry all right, but now it is like a polite lunch with a business associate at a monthly meeting.  You talk but  it never gets deep. 

I enjoyed intense interviews, exploring the subject, getting to know the guest, crazy or not.  It is like having coffee or drinks with a new acquaintance or an old friend and there is chemistry.

Something is just missing now, and I cannot quite put my mouse paw on it. 

[pyewacket]

As others have already stated, Dave was OK when he was guest hosting and when he first took over the show. I liked him back then but I started noticing a change in him. I would tune in for a guest/topic that piqued my interest only to be disappointed by the lack of good questions, follow up questions, interruptions, repetition of dumb, and unrelated anecdotes and responses. It was a gradual downhill slide from there. I didn't like the way some callers were treated, I didn't like the infomercial feel of some shows, or all of Dave's sidelines creeping into the show. It became the Dave show to me and I no longer listen. Just take note of last year's Halloween and New Year's programs see how different the show is now. 

[Morgus]

I've often have wondered if anyone here used to listen to George's "Night Hawk" show on KTRS/St. Louis and if so, was the show any good.

I kinda doubt it since thats where many of Noory's regular guests came from, he brought them over from the old St Louis show - like The Number's Lady and the Tarot card reader guy...

[ADG12311990]

I've often have wondered if anyone here used to listen to George's "Night Hawk" show on KTRS/St. Louis and if so, was the show any good.

I still find that "Night Hawk" thing weird. Like an older guy trying to be 'cool; 

[Robert]

I agree with the impression of others here.  I disagree that Noory's dumb, though, although the burned-throat incident is a data point that says he is.  He's just lazy & careless.  He didn't appear that way when he was just doing weekends.

Art Bell told of the accident where he fell off his tower & had to start taking narcotic analgesics.  He said they took his edge off, though, so he had to forego them for the hours before he went on air, even though that meant the pain built up.  Noory would never make such a sacrifice to sound sharp.

[21st Century Man]

I agree with the impression of others here.  I disagree that Noory's dumb, though, although the burned-throat incident is a data point that says he is.  He's just lazy & careless.  He didn't appear that way when he was just doing weekends.

Art Bell told of the accident where he fell off his tower & had to start taking narcotic analgesics.  He said they took his edge off, though, so he had to forego them for the hours before he went on air, even though that meant the pain built up.  Noory would never make such a sacrifice to sound sharp.

Oh, he's dumb alright. I remember him talking about the time he was at the gas station and left the pump hose in his tank and drove off. If I remember correctly, he ripped the pump out of the fuel station.   The guy is D-U-M-B.

[Robert]

Oh, he's dumb alright. I remember him talking about the time he was at the gas station and left the pump hose in his tank and drove off. If I remember correctly, he ripped the pump out of the fuel station.   The guy is D-U-M-B.

Inattentive, absent-minded...doesn't add up to low intelligence.  I've never made that mistake, but I bet there are smart people who have.  He wouldn't talk about it if he thought that was a product of stupidity rather than of distraction.

[SredniVashtar]

Inattentive, absent-minded...doesn't add up to low intelligence.  I've never made that mistake, but I bet there are smart people who have.  He wouldn't talk about it if he thought that was a product of stupidity rather than of distraction.

He would if he was too dim to understand that it was showing him up as a moron, rather than just being a charming little story of his absent-mindedness, 'tee-hee, what a klutz I am'.


It depends on what you mean by dumb. Obviously he can get around by himself without needing a carer (although sometimes I have wondered about the full extent of Tommy's duties), but I don't think he is overburdened with grey matter. The combination of being of average/just below average intelligence and his quite obvious and ineradicable laziness both play a part to make him the dead loss of a host that he so clearly is.

[Wintermute]

Maybe we can then assume these things about Jorch Snoory:


A. If Jorch is not dumb, then he thinks people truly do not notice he is under-prepped and checked out.
B. If Jorch is dumb, then we know he really thinks that everything is swell... never better, which is mindblowing.
C. If Jorch is has lower then average morality, then he thinks all the snake-oil and mind reading is his meal-ticket.
D. If Jorch blindly trusts people, then we know Jorch should not be in talk radio.


Any way you slice it, it's not a good outcome for ole' Jorch.


Personally, I think Jorch is intelligent. Jorch is using the C2C "open mind" concept to make money which I find morally horrible. Jorch knows the pseudo-world is his meal ticket. Jorch has strong self-preservation instincts and he will do whatever to keep the gravy-train running... except the work it requires to become better as an interviewer.


And this is why I am not a fan of Jorch. These assumptions based on the observed habits of a wild hobbit Jorch Snoory.

[Robert]

A. If Jorch is not dumb, then he thinks people truly do not notice he is under-prepped and checked out.
B. If Jorch is dumb, then we know he really thinks that everything is swell... never better, which is mindblowing.
C. If Jorch is has lower then average morality, then he thinks all the snake-oil and mind reading is his meal-ticket.
D. If Jorch blindly trusts people, then we know Jorch should not be in talk radio.

It's A & C.  But the "people" in A refers to only the people who matter, i.e. his employers.  All they know by now is that they have an established "name" in the seat.  They took the initial advice of Art Bell, who may have been rash with his recommend'n of Noory, or who may have been paying someone back, or who couldn't've predicted Noory would've gotten this slipshod over this much time w/o being yanked.

It may well be that the people above Noory have been turning over faster than any of them could form an independent opinion about him.  "He must be good or my predecessors wouldn't've chosen him."  Usually in radio that leads to the opposite effect, as people are eager to leave their mark on a station by cleaning personalities & others out, but it may be that overnight doesn't work that way.

[henge0stone]

The black eyed kid shows and the missing 411 were some of my favorite creepy topics. Loved the shows on them, but hearing I've heard other interviews about these topics and enjoyed them just as much, so really its the topics that I liked, noory didn't add too much...
There was a show about giants where (forget the guest) the guest said King Arthur was 9 feet tall and Noory said NOTHING. No cross examination, no 'how do you know this? Because Arthur is a semi-mythical king and there are tons of theories of who he really is, so how do you know he's 9 feet?" But Noory didn't ask the simply question.

[Robert]

The black eyed kid shows and the missing 411 were some of my favorite creepy topics. Loved the shows on them, but hearing I've heard other interviews about these topics and enjoyed them just as much, so really its the topics that I liked, noory didn't add too much...

I forget, was the "Missing 411" author ever on w Noory?  He's on w Knapp at least once every new edition & he's great.  He has a great voice & delivery, is a natural at being interviewed on his topic & I'm genuinely interested in Forteana such as that.  It may be that the author builds the mysteries unfairly by selectively reporting the evidence, but even if he does that a lot, it's still intriguing.  It's also clever how he teases about working on a theory he's not even revealing in the books yet.

There was a show about giants where (forget the guest) the guest said King Arthur was 9 feet tall and Noory said NOTHING. No cross examination, no 'how do you know this? Because Arthur is a semi-mythical king and there are tons of theories of who he really is, so how do you know he's 9 feet?" But Noory didn't ask the simply question.

Most interviewees would expect that question (or an equivalent one on whatever's their topic) & be very disappointed if it doesn't get asked, because talking about the evidence is what they want to do.  When you're on w Noory you have to try to steer your interview very hard.

[henge0stone]

Yeah, there was another interview I forget again who it was but he was a new age/conspiracy theory guy who bashed religion saying how right he was, so arrogant, and yet nothing from Noory. That's when I was basically done with him.

[ShayP]

Personally, I think Jorch is intelligent. Jorch is using the C2C "open mind" concept to make money which I find morally horrible. Jorch knows the pseudo-world is his meal ticket. Jorch has strong self-preservation instincts and he will do whatever to keep the gravy-train running... except the work it requires to become better as an interviewer.

And this is why I am not a fan of Jorch. These assumptions based on the observed habits of a wild hobbit Jorch Snoory.

I AGREE WITH YOUR STATEMENT. 


Nonetheless..........

I used to think he was good.  I think I was just entertained.  Then again...there used to be good guests on the program.  Now it's recycled new age/health food fluff.

After cutting the cord and not listening to current programs, I tuned into an old Art Bell program on TuneIn recently.  Well....It was an old program where Noory filled in.  Not sure how old, but it was before Noory got the full time gig.  It was awful.

Noory has not evolved.  He is worse now than he was because he is catering to a certain audience.

He is the most patronizing man on radio...period.

And by the way...he once said C2C isn't for politics (paraphrasing).  YET...he is John B Wells 'lite' now.

GNS

[henge0stone]

Anyone listening to the archive notice random Noory episodes popping up? In 2002 there are a few.

[DanTSX]

I remember Ian annoying me long before Jorch ever did.  Ian was a little snot with an aggravating voice and style.  George was just a sleepyhead Art.

Jorch always seemed like a "placeholder" of 5/8's At Bell back in the 2003-2005 timeframe when I was listening nightly while in university.  He wasn't bac, he just wasn't art.  He wasn't so much of a disappointment back then, and he had some genuinely good shows and interviews.  But they lacked the ability Art had to confront his guests (and callers) and hold them to standards.  It just seemed like George didn't set standards or expectations, and while Art's legacy of expectations stuck around for years (because art was doing weekends and fill-ins), the standards were steadily declining.

Eventually George stopped sounding like a good copy man with an interest int he paranormal, but more like a disinterested doof who should put the bottle down.


Now it's just a sad fuckaround with no real standards or brand.  Fucking stupid George side businesses preying on dumb cat ladies with passing interests in reiki and evps.   There is no anticipation, no overwhelming feeling of "what-if this could be real..."   It's dead, boring, bullshit.  A couple of boobs going through the motions without passion every night, handing the interview seat to anyone off their meds without any standards.

[smitty9999]

George gets it.

[Zetaspeak]

I think this is a great and interesting topic. I was a supporter of Noory early on, I thought Jorch was the best of the fill-in hosts early on. I never thought overall he was a great as Art, but I always gave him benefit of the doubt for keeping the genre alive and he seemed like a nice guy when AM radio was filled with political jerks.

Then I started noticing things, like some of the fill ins for Noory seemed to be better at the job than Jorch (Knapp, Ian) I was still giving Noory the benefit of the doubt, thinking "Okay Noory works every day, these guys are once a week.". Then paranormal podcasts started to become more of a common thing, then I started thinking "Wait other hosts are doing this job way better than Noory"

Then the content of the show changed, it became less about "alternative radio" and more generic radio. With the exact same things I hear in the morning, global warming denying, constant pro gun talk, doom and gloom economy forecast no matter the situation. The program that starts to sound way more like an infomercial and less of a discussion of the strange and the abnormal. Also Noory started to either dumb himself down or his true lack of intelligence started to show, saying things like "Hey it's snowing, so that disproves global warming" Huh he does know how snow is made right? Its NOT cold = snow. How precipitation is made is more complicated than that.

My last straw is when he lost his "nice guy appeal" there's these little hints that he actually a bit of a jerk. But when on numerous times  there was a shooting and Jorch first concern is to bring his NRA buddies on to remind us that "The real victims are the gun owners" when they are still picking bodies from the crime scene. That's the last straw. that's when I viewed Noory as a low life with very little to no redeeming qualities.

[henge0stone]

The fact that he has Alex Jones on often says something about how Noory is attempting to feed conspiracy theorists more and more. They are already nearly brain dead anyway so mine as well get them for your audience.