Proof Conservatives Know They're Done

[pate]

Somebody apparently mentioned that already...

That's it.  I'm taking my bottle and going home....

[pate]

And 'nother thang:

http://video.adultswim.com/squidbillies/death-to-america.html

you might have to wait a minute for it to load;  while you do, ponder this quote from it:

"... I am fully hydrated and I'd like to return this Cream Soda for a pro-rated refund ..."

Enjoy!

[Jackstar]

They get worse, you should see Greenpeace's opposition to ITER. They either flat out don't know the difference between fission and fusion or they don't want the advancement of humanity through the development of limitless energy.

I assumed that the Sewer, Gas & Electric crowd had infiltrated and neutralized Greenpeace many years ago. When I was growing up, they seemed like a prevalent voice, and now they seem to be akin to a traveling ice capades show.

So if I were a petroleum oligarch, I would totally have my Greenpeace goons shutting down the development of limitless energy. What's going to happen to the economy if the proletariats have limitless energy??

I'm simply stating that there is ample evidence that the science behind the ban was questionable.

Honestly... isn't all science questionable? But maybe you mean 'sketchy' or even 'rigged.' I can't and don't know, I am fairly ignorant as to the details of the science.

The difference between millions of people dying, and millions of people not dying & the introduction of a new biochemical into the global environment, is that there is an established history of millions of humans dying.

Even if it were to have been safe to pump the stuff out like cotton candy farts, it would have been reprehensibly irresponsible to do so, simply because the technology and knowledge to correct any problem that might have developed... didn't exist. Does it even now?

Do we jump out of an airplane, before inventing the parachute? No, we do not. Well at least I don't.

The ban resulted in a serious detriment to malaria eradication--one that cost a whole lot of lives in Africa--and I want that justified.

This is like saying, "locking the liquor cabinet resulted in a serious detriment to those who wanted to drink." I mean, shit... people die. It's what they do here on this rock. Am I a big fan of death? Well, no. And of course, the alleviation of human suffering, of course, yes. I am in favor of such an ideal.

Risking the whole biosphere to do it? Uh yeah... I'm thinking more caution than one might otherwise think is enough, may well be in order. Once again, even if there is no risk, if there is no way to deal with the risks that could be foreseen, how would we deal with risks that cannot even yet be imagined?

Your environmentalists made that claim,

Whoa, Nelly! I reject these stipulations of ownership--I don't have the dog in this hunt that you're sniffing at.

you continue to hold some seriously anti-humanist ideology, and I believe you liberals owe Africa some reparations for it.

Really, I'm flattered, but... I uh, I gave at the office.

After all, you yourself stated that you don't give a shit how many people die to save the earth.

I stated that? YouTube or it didn't happen. Also... save it from... what?

Yes, I heard that too [...] yet you're willing to buy that we won't solve our problems through technology?

Okay, hang on here.

Hi. Have we met? I am Jack. Hi! I am not sure who it is you started talking to in here in this thread, but she sounds fascinating.


Zeitgeist Addendum

Actually, the third world has done nothing but improve.

I really liked this book: http://www.amazon.com/The-Secret-Peace-Exposing-Positive/dp/0984369503

[Mind Flayer Monk]

Just for fun, I'll toss out another big scare. This one originated with the eminent Carl Sagan and a group of climate scientists who alarmingly predicted in 1991 that Saddam Hussein's troops lighting the oil wells on fire in Kuwait could cause a catastrophe on level with a nuclear winter and destroy agriculture in Asia, possibly globally.

Our men did a damn fine job putting those fires out. That really could have been catastrophe but the smarts, dedication, and heroism of our men prevented it.

[NowhereInTime]

Our men did a damn fine job putting those fires out. That really could have been catastrophe but the smarts, dedication, and heroism of our men prevented it.

No, MFM, don't do it, don't add a wrinkle of truth to Fiction Author's self contained, self substantiated world!  It isn't about the valiant job done to contain well fires, it's about assailing scientists and environmentalists as criminals committing crimes against (well, I'm not sure who, exactly)...

[SciFiAuthor]

Our men did a damn fine job putting those fires out. That really could have been catastrophe but the smarts, dedication, and heroism of our men prevented it.

It took 8 months to get them out. Sagan did not attribute the failure of his hypothesis to that anyway, he attributed it to a failure of the smoke to reach sufficient altitude.

Actually, the Kuwaiti oil fires was a situation in which no climate scientist predicted it even close to right. Sagan's opposition turned out to be just as wrong as he was.

[SciFiAuthor]

No, MFM, don't do it, don't add a wrinkle of truth to Fiction Author's self contained, self substantiated world!  It isn't about the valiant job done to contain well fires, it's about assailing scientists and environmentalists as criminals committing crimes against (well, I'm not sure who, exactly)...

Well, let's be exact about it then.

I would like to see the administrators running the United Nations Population Fund during the time Alberto Fujimori was in power in Peru go to prison. They participated in an internationally recognized crime against humanity by funding the forced sterilization of thousands in the name of population sustainability.

Also participating in the Peru debacle was USAID during the Clinton Administration. It got so bad that a representative from USAID was dragged into congress to testify to the House International Relations Committee on the matter, to which they testified that Peru was making changes to the program. It was a complete lie, the program didn't stop until the early 2000's, and at least three hundred thousand Peruvian men and women were forcibly sterilized with US taxpayer money given to Fujimori by Clinton appointees that had full knowledge of what was going on. I would like to see the administration of USAID during those days taken to ICC and prosecuted for their part in it.

Is that specific enough for you?

[SciFiAuthor]

I assumed that the Sewer, Gas & Electric crowd had infiltrated and neutralized Greenpeace many years ago. When I was growing up, they seemed like a prevalent voice, and now they seem to be akin to a traveling ice capades show.

So if I were a petroleum oligarch, I would totally have my Greenpeace goons shutting down the development of limitless energy. What's going to happen to the economy if the proletariats have limitless energy??

Nah, they're still the same old far left whale huggers they've always been. The reason they don't want ITER is because they don't want limitless cheap, clean energy. Cheap energy means human expansion and development, and that's what they are most against.

Honestly... isn't all science questionable? But maybe you mean 'sketchy' or even 'rigged.' I can't and don't know, I am fairly ignorant as to the details of the science.

The difference between millions of people dying, and millions of people not dying & the introduction of a new biochemical into the global environment, is that there is an established history of millions of humans dying.

Even if it were to have been safe to pump the stuff out like cotton candy farts, it would have been reprehensibly irresponsible to do so, simply because the technology and knowledge to correct any problem that might have developed... didn't exist. Does it even now?

Do we jump out of an airplane, before inventing the parachute? No, we do not. Well at least I don't.
This is like saying, "locking the liquor cabinet resulted in a serious detriment to those who wanted to drink." I mean, shit... people die. It's what they do here on this rock. Am I a big fan of death? Well, no. And of course, the alleviation of human suffering, of course, yes. I am in favor of such an ideal.

That argument is useable to shut down any human endeavor. The automobile, the steam engine, fertilizer, anything that introduces something into the environment that wasn't previously there. Hell, you could use it against agriculture itself, since the effects of agriculture on the natural environment aren't completely understood.

Nah, fuck all that. Let's terraform this bitch and make it super Earth. We can make it better than natural. As George Carlin used to muse, maybe the Earth wants us to coat it in plastic.

Risking the whole biosphere to do it? Uh yeah... I'm thinking more caution than one might otherwise think is enough, may well be in order. Once again, even if there is no risk, if there is no way to deal with the risks that could be foreseen, how would we deal with risks that cannot even yet be imagined?

Pffft, we're tame about that stuff now. During the Manhattan Project it was uncertain whether or not a nuclear detonation would incinerate the Earth's atmosphere. It didn't stop them, they let 'er rip anyway. There are modern methods for exploring risk, predicting risk, and managing risk. What one doesn't do is freak out over a questionable book and then compel their politicians to ban something beneficial for no real reason.

Whoa, Nelly! I reject these stipulations of ownership--I don't have the dog in this hunt that you're sniffing at.
Really, I'm flattered, but... I uh, I gave at the office.
I stated that? YouTube or it didn't happen. Also... save it from... what?
Okay, hang on here.

I like to make people think by making them own the consequences and results of the policies they support.

Hi. Have we met? I am Jack. Hi! I am not sure who it is you started talking to in here in this thread, but she sounds fascinating.


Zeitgeist Addendum
I really liked this book: http://www.amazon.com/The-Secret-Peace-Exposing-Positive/dp/0984369503

Well we did start this with your post about not caring how many people die if it means preserving the biosphere. I think we can preserve the biosphere and not kill anyone at the same time through the use of reason and technology.

[NowhereInTime]

It took 8 months to get them out. Sagan did not attribute the failure of his hypothesis to that anyway, he attributed it to a failure of the smoke to reach sufficient altitude.

Actually, the Kuwaiti oil fires was a situation in which no climate scientist predicted it even close to right. Sagan's opposition turned out to be just as wrong as he was.

Leaving SciFi Author the only one who was right!  About everything!

[Jackstar]

Humans > Malaria.... but only by the thumbs.

[NowhereInTime]

Well, let's be exact about it then.

I would like to see the administrators running the United Nations Population Fund during the time Alberto Fujimori was in power in Peru go to prison. They participated in an internationally recognized crime against humanity by funding the forced sterilization of thousands in the name of population sustainability.

Also participating in the Peru debacle was USAID during the Clinton Administration. It got so bad that a representative from USAID was dragged into congress to testify to the House International Relations Committee on the matter, to which they testified that Peru was making changes to the program. It was a complete lie, the program didn't stop until the early 2000's, and at least three hundred thousand Peruvian men and women were forcibly sterilized with US taxpayer money given to Fujimori by Clinton appointees that had full knowledge of what was going on. I would like to see the administration of USAID during those days taken to ICC and prosecuted for their part in it.

Is that specific enough for you?

Um, sure. 

But what does that have to do with DDT or Malathion?  You're the one claiming that "liberals" are preventing the use of DDT to combat malaria in Africa when, in fact, it is still in use and recommended by the World Health Organization for interior use against mosquitoes. 

So, we jump tracks to Fujimori, who is a criminal, and it is guilt by association time that Big Bubba Billy was somehow, someway complicit with Fujimori's actions.

If Fujimori was such a genocidist, however, then why did the chief state's attorney, the same people who locked him for 25 years for "grave human rights violations"  for gunning down civilian supporters of Shining Path, clear him of wrongdoing in this case you cite?

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-25890287

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/01/25/world/americas/peru-sterilization/

You want to claim he "deceived" women into having their tubes tied, then so be it.  The prosecutor can't proove it, but you think Congress can?

You jump all over the place to find an argument you think you can't lose, except, you do.

All snark aside, have you ever seriously stopped and wondered from where your worldview stems and is it really a reflection of who you want to be known as later in life?

[Jackstar]

Until you're both clearly in favor of circumcision reform, this entire discussion is moot.

[NowhereInTime]

Until you're both clearly in favor of circumcision reform, this entire discussion is moot.

Hells, NO Biitch! I likes mine cut and so do the ladies...

[SciFiAuthor]

Um, sure. 

But what does that have to do with DDT or Malathion?  You're the one claiming that "liberals" are preventing the use of DDT to combat malaria in Africa when, in fact, it is still in use and recommended by the World Health Organization for interior use against mosquitoes.

Actually, I don't dispute the problems with Malathion. The research behind its discontinuation wasn't seated in politics or movements, but actual chemistry. And as I've said before, we have plenty of options for insecticides used in agriculture. We did not have a good replacement for DDT. As for the WHO, that's actually true, they do recommend it for lack of anything else that works. And, since 2005, the UN approved its limited use because people were noticing the very problem I'm talking about: the ban, years of sanctioning of third world countries that still used it, the Stockholm Convention, and every other environmentalist-driven reactionary policy against DDT was costing lives.

So, we jump tracks to Fujimori, who is a criminal, and it is guilt by association time that Big Bubba Billy was somehow, someway complicit with Fujimori's actions.

No, you claimed to not know who specifically who was being affected by these crimes, so I gave you a specific example. I have more. And no, I don't think Clinton knew and in fact he ultimately cut the payments off. I think he simply appointed the best most qualified liberals to run USAID, and like all leftwing academics these days, they were vehemently environmentalist, anti-humanist, and felt population control was needed in Peru.

If Fujimori was such a genocidist, however, then why did the chief state's attorney, the same people who locked him for 25 years for "grave human rights violations"  for gunning down civilian supporters of Shining Path, clear him of wrongdoing in this case you cite?




http://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-25890287

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/01/25/world/americas/peru-sterilization/

You want to claim he "deceived" women into having their tubes tied, then so be it.  The prosecutor can't proove it, but you think Congress can?

No, I think you're shitting on hundreds of thousands of women who were deceived into sterilization just to try to make a political point against me in a thread. Nice. That said, I don't know why the investigation stopped. It could be that Fujimori didn't know, though I am skeptical since he was the same guy that authorized the death squads. Or it could be that Peru is corrupt as shit and someone got paid off. Or they burned the evidence.  But the fact remains that USAID knew enough to tell congress that Peru's practices had changed and everything was all right when it wasn't.

You jump all over the place to find an argument you think you can't lose, except, you do.

Oh I have more, forced sterilizations weren't unique to Peru.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compulsory_sterilization

All of it driven by radical environmentalists, eugenicists and leftwing anti-humanists that think we're overpopulated.

All snark aside, have you ever seriously stopped and wondered from where your worldview stems and is it really a reflection of who you want to be known as later in life?

No, it's a reflection of a whole lot of reading. I highly recommend being informed, especially about your own ideology and how it affects the world. When you say "Save the Earth!" someone at the UN responds by tricking a third worlder into getting sterilized or gives the finger to some African dying of Malaria. 

[SciFiAuthor]

Until you're both clearly in favor of circumcision reform, this entire discussion is moot.

Nowhere's right, the women do seem to prefer cut.

[Mind Flayer Monk]

But what does that have to do with DDT or Malathion?  You're the one claiming that "liberals" are preventing the use of DDT to combat malaria in Africa when, in fact, it is still in use and recommended by the World Health Organization for interior use against mosquitoes. 

... the very problem I'm talking about: the ban, years of sanctioning of third world countries that still used it, the Stockholm Convention, and every other environmentalist-driven reactionary policy against DDT was costing lives.

They can still use DDT. Its just our tax dollars ain't paying for it.

[SciFiAuthor]

They can still use DDT. Its just our tax dollars ain't paying for it.

They can, and South Africa gave everyone the finger and expects to have malaria eradicated in 2018. But there are consequences. When Uganda saw the effect and were discussing using it to eradicate their own malaria problem, the EU threatened agricultural sanctions citing the Stockholm Convention. Use DDT and your economy gets destroyed is basically the status quo still.

It's for those reasons that over 600,000 continue to die per year, skewed heavily towards African children, despite malaria being an easily eradicated disease through DDT use.

[Mind Flayer Monk]

They can, and South Africa gave everyone the finger and expects to have malaria eradicated in 2018. But there are consequences. When Uganda saw the effect and were discussing using it to eradicate their own malaria problem, the EU threatened agricultural sanctions citing the Stockholm Convention. Use DDT and your economy gets destroyed is basically the status quo still.

It's for those reasons that over 600,000 continue to die per year, skewed heavily towards African children, despite malaria being an easily eradicated disease through DDT use.

You must mean Uganda would receive it, put new labels on it, and then resell it to India and Vietnam. DDT is still used in many places especially India, Bangladesh, and Burma and we still export plenty of it. I wouldn't attribute the destruction of the Bangladeshi and Burmese economies to DDT-or even Uganda's economy.

[Jackstar]

Nowhere's right, the women do seem to prefer cut.

"The practice of Female Genital Mutilation is common across much of Africa, where it is believed to ensure sexual purity before marriage. But Marie says FGM is also “very common” in some communities in America.

'The pressure to get daughters cut is great,' she said."

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/horrific-taboo-female-circumcision-rise-u-s-n66226

Mmmmm... choice cuts of vodsel.
As long as we're making jokes about it, you sick fucks!

[Jackstar]

[...] or gives the finger to some African dying of Malaria.

#1) A proper noun? Seriously?

#2) I don't see Cancer in the Western Empire or Malaria in the African sub-continent as the world's biggest public health concern, frankly.


Mmmmm... vodsel.

[SciFiAuthor]

#1) A proper noun? Seriously?

#2) I don't see Cancer in the Western Empire or Malaria in the African sub-continent as the world's biggest public health concern, frankly.


Mmmmm... vodsel.

Wait until you get cancer, malaria or undergo a circumcision in rural Namibia. That'll change the old viewpoint in a hurry.

[onan]

Proof this thread is done... we are talking about circumcision, which there is still no absolute medical indication for routine circumcision of the newborn. But it is covered by insurance... and that is why it is so prevalent.

[PB the Deplorable]

As discussed on
Seinfeld

'Hey Jerry... you ever seen one?'

[SciFiAuthor]

Proof this thread is done... we are talking about circumcision, which there is still no absolute medical indication for routine circumcision of the newborn. But it is covered by insurance... and that is why it is so prevalent.

Oh for Christ's sake, there you go again with your establishment medical *knowledge*. By covering it the insurance companies know that they'll prevent increased costs later in life as 20-something men realize that women prefer circumcised dudes and they chew, razor blade or resort to pencil sharpeners to get rid of the damned things. That shit can cause an infection. Gangrene even.

Jeeeezus, next you'll claim there's no medical benefit to a good bleeding and a handful of leaches.

[Jackstar]

Proof this thread is done... we are talking about circumcision

Pull down your pants--you're next. No need to consent--all we have to do is pretend you are less than a week old, and, bickety-bam, there's a little dab more medical waste introduced into the world.

Surely, you've heard the recent "revelations" about human fetal tissue being used to power incinerators used for heat and electricity? What do you think they have been doing with the ends of cocks for AT LEAST TWO THOUSAND YEARS?

Think about it. Over time, that is a whole lot of Beluga caviar.

[Jackstar]

Wait until you get cancer, malaria or undergo a circumcision in rural Namibia. That'll change the old viewpoint in a hurry.

I already got two of those in Seattle, and I am ready to rip off your head and shit down your throat the instant you reveal to me that you have an M.D. So there.

[SciFiAuthor]

Pull down your pants--you're next. No need to consent--all we have to do is pretend you are less than a week old, and, bickety-bam, there's a little dab more medical waste introduced into the world.

Well you certainly suck ass at recycling. That shit could be made into a wallet that if stroked turns into luggage. Or a lovely ingredient in a chowder. Or a substitute for calamari. Or could even save some rubber trees that otherwise would have been bled to make rubber bands.

[SciFiAuthor]

I already got two of those in Seattle, and I am ready to rip off your head and shit down your throat the instant you reveal to me that you have an M.D. So there.

An M.D. of sorts. I'm certainly well-respected in Borneo as a witch doctor. At least that's what I thought they said, though they might have actually called me the "pale-faced satan" come to think of it. Anyway, I gave them a Beta VCR from 1985 and they were too preoccupied with blessing it to notice my escape with their DDT allotment. I figured fuck 'em, that shit was worth like 60 bucks in Nigeria. They'll deal with it. Suckers.

[Jackstar]

An M.D. of sorts.

http://youtu.be/ZCZNrAkuocQ

They'll deal with it. Suckers.

http://youtu.be/4Z9WVZddH9w

[SciFiAuthor]

http://youtu.be/ZCZNrAkuocQ

I wept gently at this man's artistic talent.

http://youtu.be/4Z9WVZddH9w

I didn't make it through this one. Too many Europeans. It's like whenever you want to cook up some bullshit youtube video in hopes of PBS hiring you to make a bleeding heart documentary you always go find some French asshole to blabber incoherently and highly indirectly to make some point or another about something.