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Militarization of Police

Started by bateman, February 04, 2014, 09:59:45 PM

PerfectTommy

Quote from: Zoo on August 10, 2014, 04:28:35 PMDid you know police, FBI, or even the Government does not keep track of "wrongful police shooting statistics". Yup thats true in fact, I dare you to prove me wrong.

Ease up, I know all about it and I agree with you.

Now for the record, they don't compile data on their shootings out of fear they will be misrepresented by the media and/or activists with an agenda (gee, I wonder why that is...). Some that do collect the data rarely ever freely share it, and those that do share it present it in bare-bones graphs that make detailed analysis difficult. 

That said, this is undoubtedly a stupid move on the part of law enforcement--akin to burying one's head in the sand, hoping things will just blow over.

Fortunately, there are people in law enforcement willing to address the statistics as opposed to just sitting on it. Look into the detailed analysis done by firearms trainer Tom Aveni. He was shocked about how tight-lipped agencies are regarding this data, so took it upon himself to compile and examine it himself in an effort to rectify police training methods.


http://www.theppsc.org/Staff_Views/Aveni/V3.MMRMA_Deadly_Force_Project.pdf

Taking a proactive approach is far more helpful than covering up an issue...

Or using the opportunity to drag out one's soapbox.

QuoteSo screw the citizen that has to sit through questioning right away.

The reason it's preferable that suspects and potential witnesses are interviewed almost immediately is because these folks have a tendency to disappear--especially after a violent incident. Police officers tend not to do that.

QuoteWhile I sit in a freaking cell being questioned over and over.

So exercise your right to remain silent.

Approach the cop like he/she is a criminal and they'll likewise do the same.





PerfectTommy

Quote from: Zoo on August 10, 2014, 11:39:41 PMDo you ever wonder why police are so pissed when someone is videotaping them. If they have nothing to hide why are they so upset when they are being taped?

Hmm, maybe cops get pissed at being recorded because half-assed videos such as this that only tell a FRACTION of the story wind up being touted across teh Internetz as infallible truth?

For the record, I'm not taking the cop's side or the lady's side right now because I have no earthly clue what this situation was all about or how or why it escalated.

Jumping to conclusions may be fashionable exercise for small minds these days, but I prefer wait until all the facts are presented and have heard from all sides in this case before I even think of making assumptions.



Zoo

Well great information, still did not see a  "wrongful police shooting statistic" but it is one of the closet things I have ever seen.

What do they have to fear if they do their job right. If they do something wrong and the force takes action well problem solved. So say an officer shoot someone unarmed and hands up and he was in the wrong because of overwhelming proof he goes to jail for murder or manslaughter. People will not be as pissed. You are right people are pissed because nobody gets told a damn thing beside it is being investigated. Then time and time again they come to the conclusion that it was justified. Well 90% of the time it is done all in house. So people have lost all hope with justice when it comes to police policing the police...

Well maybe they should have thicker skin and understand that nobody in public has the right of privacy. Which has been upheld in federal court. Maybe just maybe their Chief should let the know it is not against the law and it is the citizens 1st Amendment right to do so. That might just help things out too.

Well people hardly ever believe the suspect side of things anyways. Only facts you are going to get is what the police decided to give the public. That is why video is so important to citizens who are being detained. It is accountability of both sides. Something that is starting to happen is real police understand this and are more than happy to be videotaped while doing their job. They understand why people are flexing their rights as citizen of the United State of America and welcome it!!1


http://youtu.be/Ai-WOLiCvfI

albrecht

Quote from: b_dubb on August 12, 2014, 12:16:11 PM
Not sure if this is the place to post this kind of stuff.  And how is it relevant that a police officer has a wife and two kids?  And why do you need to publish their names? And address?

DUDE WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU?
I agree 100%. I know "politics" is not monitored but I'm wondering if it should be. Even when information is easily obtainable, or public record, doesn't mean it should be broadcast, especially when there is on-going civil unrest in the streets and even the basic investigation hasn't happened yet. Much less a trial. And to publish info on wife and children? Relatives? WTF is wrong with people? Do you want to live in the land of ISIS or Mexico where summary executions, vigilante killings, mass mayhem, revenge killings, family feuds, etc are the norm? Are you crazy?

Zoo

No matter what people think this information is on the net and I am glad I hope for more in the next couple hours. Their is no where to hide anymore. Not for me, you, or anyone else. This is our new brave world enjoy!!1

Foodlion

Quote from: b_dubb on August 12, 2014, 12:16:11 PM
Not sure if this is the place to post this kind of stuff.  And how is it relevant that a police officer has a wife and two kids?  And why do you need to publish their names? And address?

DUDE WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU?
If it weren't for Police departments and news outlets posting photos and names of suspects NOT proven of the crime yet, then I'd agree with you. In reality they (police/news/sheeple) see some one on the news and assume guilty before proven innocent, and some times this can cause personal problems, even career losses.

I would like to hold the Police departments to the same standard as civilians, even though that means less rights than they currently have. Either allow transparency or be fair about it. 


Zoo

Every bit of information that is out was found on the net without breaking a single law. So if people do not want their information out I suggest things like this. Stay off facebook, do not use your real name, do not give personal information out. Then people will not know everything about you. I blame facebook, and public records shame on them both!!1

albrecht

Quote from: Foodlion on August 12, 2014, 01:55:59 PM
If it weren't for Police departments and news outlets posting photos and names of suspects NOT proven of the crime yet, then I'd agree with you. In reality they (police/news/sheeple) see some one on the news and assume guilty before proven innocent, and some times this can cause personal problems, even career losses.

I would like to hold the Police departments to the same standard as civilians, even though that means less rights than they currently have. Either allow transparency or be fair about it.
I've never seen a police blotter showing the latest arrestees where they mentioned the minor children or the wife of the arrested and their names and actual address. They also quite clearly say "arrest" or "charged", not convicted or guilty. The problem is with society or the education system if people think "arrested" means "guilty." And usually they don't even post the address of the arrested (if they do than MAYBE something like 3500 block of Main St, but not the specific address.) The only time I've seen actual names and specific addresses is for sex offenders who have to register by law. And they have been convicted and as a part of their release or parole need to show where they live.

I agree the police should put out the officer's name if he is arrested and charged. And I don't like the whole mugshot/booking industry and police releasing those documents. But, also, would we rather there be no public record of people arrested. They just "disappear" into the system and then later, hopefully, they can make a phone call or get released?

But if even this cop outright in cold-blood shot this "youth" (which I don't think is the case but waiting on the evidence, witness testimony, investigation, trial, etc) you don't go after children or wives of anybody. Or burning and looting your neighborhood as "justice." Now FAA has put a "no fly zone" around the area, actually!

Foodlion

Quote from: Zoo on August 12, 2014, 02:13:53 PM
Every bit of information that is out was found on the net without breaking a single law. So if people do not want their information out I suggest things like this. Stay off facebook, do not use your real name, do not give personal information out. Then people will not know everything about you. I blame facebook, and public records shame on them both!!1
Even before the net was big, just look at what happened to the Duke Lacrosse team that was falsely accused of rape. They were kicked out of the school, and that was just the beginning of their trial of hell.

b_dubb

Quote from: Zoo on August 12, 2014, 01:32:49 PM
No matter what people think this information is on the net and I am glad I hope for more in the next couple hours. Their is no where to hide anymore. Not for me, you, or anyone else. This is our new brave world enjoy!!1
I wish you cared as much about spelling and grammar as you do about how everyone everywhere is constantly being oppressed. 

Foodlion

Quote from: albrecht on August 12, 2014, 02:15:24 PM
I've never seen a police blotter showing the latest arrestees where they mentioned the minor children or the wife of the arrested and their names and actual address. They also quite clearly say "arrest" or "charged", not convicted or guilty. The problem is with society or the education system if people think "arrested" means "guilty." And usually they don't even post the address of the arrested (if they do than MAYBE something like 3500 block of Main St, but not the specific address.) The only time I've seen actual names and specific addresses is for sex offenders who have to register by law. And they have been convicted and as a part of their release or parole need to show where they live.

I agree the police should put out the officer's name if he is arrested and charged. And I don't like the whole mugshot/booking industry and police releasing those documents. But, also, would we rather there be no public record of people arrested. They just "disappear" into the system and then later, hopefully, they can make a phone call or get released?

But if even this cop outright in cold-blood shot this "youth" (which I don't think is the case but waiting on the evidence, witness testimony, investigation, trial, etc) you don't go after children or wives of anybody. Or burning and looting your neighborhood as "justice." Now FAA has put a "no fly zone" around the area, actually!
I agree on the home address and wife and children part. But what I'm saying is if a good person gets falsely accused and loses their job, then ultimately it's the family that suffers anyways.
I think the blood thirsty maggot Americans just love to see a hanging. Just like the lynch mob days, only this time they have Ipads, running water and Nancy Grace to make it seem civilized.

Zoo

Quote from: b_dubb on August 12, 2014, 02:17:04 PM
I wish you cared as much about spelling and grammar as you do about how everyone everywhere is constantly being oppressed.

I wish you cared more about people being oppressed than grammar!!1


albrecht

Quote from: Foodlion on August 12, 2014, 02:22:04 PM
I agree on the home address and wife and children part. But what I'm saying is if a good person gets falsely accused and loses their job, then ultimately it's the family that suffers anyways.
I think the blood thirsty maggot Americans just love to see a hanging. Just like the lynch mob days, only this time they have Ipads, running water and Nancy Grace to make it seem civilized.
Nancy Grace actually makes it seem worse than the old days of lynch-bombs. I hate her. I agree that they should not release "arrests" maybe wait until at least indicted, since trials should be public or at least have public informed of their progress. I agree simply being arrested can ruin a life and in the digital-age you can't just move to another state or place. Even if you were found not indicted, charges dropped, or found not guilty. And if you were convicted forget about a future unless you have a strong network of friends or family willing to give you another shot.

Zoo

Quote from: b_dubb on August 12, 2014, 05:17:56 PM
I'd settle for basic literacy

I am so blessed that you have time to find all my mistakes keep up the good work!!1


Zoo

Quote from: albrecht on August 12, 2014, 05:39:59 PM
Even if you were found not indicted, charges dropped, or found not guilty. And if you were convicted forget about a future unless you have a strong network of friends or family willing to give you another shot.

Well when that happens you end up fighting every day to do whats right while society as a whole tries to crush you. No matter what you say people will never believe you because your a felon. Your voice does not matter or dismissed at every turn. No decent job will await you no matter how many degrees you have. You will be judge by everyone most of all cops. They will push you, hit you, spit on you, and humiliate you every chance they get. Why? Because no matter what you say or do nobody in society cares about you. Even if it is on video people say he must of done something before the video was turned on. You no longer matter to the other Americans as a person.Years and years of fighting on the inside to come out to this. Then you must restrain from yelling, acting out, or standing up for your self. Because if you do, then you are looked at as a violent felon. So you take and take this shit day in and day out. Hoping and praying that you can control your self every moment of every day. If you lose it just a little back to prison/hell you go and nobody cares. This is why people are flipping out in Ferguson Missouri. They are sick of being beat down and humiliated by the police. All that anger is coming out that is how it feels!!1

Zoo

It is nice to see the MSM talking about the Militarization of the Police. I think it is about time people are starting to see what police are now days. Two journalists were arrested for no reason, well the were videotaping. What does it say about police who do not understand what the First Amendment is? If they do not respect that do they respect anything?  Jay Nixon takes local law enforcement off and brings in State for crowd control. Is that going to help or make things worse? Well we will see tonight!!1

paladin1991

Quote from: PerfectTommy on August 10, 2014, 01:35:27 PM
Contrary to the murmurings of assorted Chicken Littles, we are NOT living in a police state.

When officers step out of line, ultimately there is accountability.

Frankly, I'm more wary of the country's general population than I am of LEOs, especially should the day come when America finally collapses under its own weight.

I'm also more than a little irritated by some of the rhetoric being bandied about--this talk about sabotaging police vehicles, creating "tin cans full of casualties", fighting fire with fire, etc. What the fuck is this, Infowars? Most of it is just bloviating and hubris, sure, but there has been a precedent for it to manifest into full-blown incidents, such as the recent killings of officers by supposed "patriotic" assholes.

Sue me if I take this kind of horse shit seriously being that my girlfriend's a cop, I'm friends with cops, and have done the ride-alongs, heard the horror stories, and actually seen firsthand the unimaginable shit they have to put up with from the mostly ungrateful denizens of this rotting society.

I guess it's easy for me to relate, having to put up with the same kind of shit at my job. Every other weekend I'm treated to a cacophony of disrespectful attitudes, thefts, fights, shootings, or some combination thereof. I just want to do my job in peace and listen to George Noory stumble over words and ask repeatedly stupid, inane questions, but apparently this is too much to ask.

At least I have the authority vested in me by the store manager to lock the doors whenever it gets bad. My girl and her colleagues don't have that luxury.

Christ Jesus, sorry for the rant but as if the armchair quarterbacking and second guessing weren't bad enough, we've got a bunch of Joe Vigilantes threatening to make things right.
Hey Tommy, sorry to be late to respond.  I bounce around quite a bit in these forums.  First, I am not here to piss on you.  I'm not even here to argue with you.  And I DO agree with you, I am very worried about our populace, and there are a LOT of coppers out there who do a thankless job.  If I had a 10 spot for every time I heard 'Where were you?  Out getting donuts?' I could take a months vacay in Cambria every year for probably 10 years.  *shrug*

You spoke of officers stepping out of line and there being accountability.  Umm, yeah, look my dad is retired LEO, 32 years Lost Angels County.  My bro still works uniform but is getting ready to pull the pin with 30 yrs.  I worked it until I scattered my shit across the highway responding to a shooting in progress in the projects.  16 months of rehab on that one.  I only throw that out as my bona fides, as bona fides as one can be on the friggin interwebz.

Accountability when one or more gets 'out of line'?  Yeah, usually too late.  I know bro, what are you gonna do?  But there are shitbirds in uniform who DO get away with shit until finally someone gets it on video tape or some fellow officer 'rats' them out.  And then it's a shit sandwich.

The fear that ppl have of authority in this nation is definitely un-American.  They work for us.  We have the power.  They utilize force of arms against the civilians.....and are trained to to do so.  The comment re: neutralizing the threat of the MRAP?  Just a comment to calm individuals.  Yeah, respect the threat, but don't let your fear kick you in the ass.  I can say the same thing about Stryker vehicles, T-80's, BTR's and Volvos. 

Your girlfriend is a cop?  You've friends are cops? May the hand of God be on their shoulders everytime they saddle up and ride. 
Ask this question.  "As a Police Officer, what is your primary duty?  Keeping the peace or enforcing the law?"  Think thru the answer.  We used to be trained here (in the Peoples Republic of California) to 'keep the peace.'  Hence the P.O.S.T. certification, Peace Officers Standards and Training.  Here, too many coppers are saying that they are there to enforce the laws.

Ride alongs?  A real eye opener, aren't they?  Too bad the rest of the gen pop doesn't go on them.  Then they could see their friends and neighbors as we see them.

You Mgr.....hehehheh.  Do you and I work at the same place?  Since I left LE, I work in a retail enviroment.  The number of jackwagons and generic assholes that come thru and treat my peers like shit because they wear a name tag....  I used to choke assholes out for some of the shit they say to my ppl.

I don't think that anyone here is making threats, advocating violence or fomenting revolt or rebellion.  I don't how much you get around on the 'net, but there are some sites that do exactly that.  Your girlfriend has probably had the classes on these groups and their sites.  I know I did and that was when  the web was in its infancy.

As for you being on a rant?  Shit.  Let it fly man.  I'll buy you a beer afterwards.  Or we can go in the corner, throw punches and THEN drink beer.  Hell, you're Perfect Tommy and I'm a Blue Blaze Irregular. 

Zoo

The sites you seek you will never find. Only sites you will see are the sites they let you.

Have you ever arrested a fellow officer for violating citizens rights, using excessive force, or anything illegal as you would a normal citizen?

I was wondering your thoughts about every officer having to wear a video and audio recorder that must be turned on at every encounter with the public. "In the Southern California city of Rialto, the number of citizen complaints against police dropped from 24 to 3 in the first year that the patrol officers began wearing cameras in 2012. Use-of-force incidents plummeted from 61 to 25 during the same period." ZUSHA ELINSON
What does this tell the public? What it tells me police, as well as citizens behave when they are being video and audio recorded. So in turn both officers and citizens were misbehaving when they were not. So why were cops not arresting cops for breaking the law? I know some do and they are hated by others cops for doing their job like my cousin. To me just because you have a badge does not give you extra right. What you would ticket  or arrest a citizen for you should to the same to your fellow officers!!1


http://online.wsj.com/articles/body-cameras-on-police-can-reduce-use-of-force-citizen-complaints-1408134549

albrecht

When a suspect fights, ijnjures, or kills, a police dog attacking him he is often charged with "assault on a police officer" or worse. Yet, when a policeman cruelly kills a police dog he is charged with a simple misdemeanor. So much for being held accountable. We are told police dogs are officers and even "partners." This cop killed his partner, an officer and faces -at most- six months in jail or a $750 fine.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/wyoming-charged-animal-cruelty-death-k9-partner-article-1.1913789

Zoo

Quote from: albrecht on August 24, 2014, 05:22:21 PM
When a suspect fights, ijnjures, or kills, a police dog attacking him he is often charged with "assault on a police officer" or worse. Yet, when a policeman cruelly kills a police dog he is charged with a simple misdemeanor. So much for being held accountable. We are told police dogs are officers and even "partners." This cop killed his partner, an officer and faces -at most- six months in jail or a $750 fine.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/wyoming-charged-animal-cruelty-death-k9-partner-article-1.1913789

I agree with you completely! It is sad that they can get away with murder!!1
"Under the Federal Law Enforcement Animal Protection Act, which went into effect this week, anyone convicted of purposely assaulting, maiming, or killing federal law enforcement animals such as police dogs and horses could be fined at least $1,000 and spend up to 10 years in prison. Previously, the animals were covered by a variety of state, rather than federal, laws."
http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=96229


Zoo

Well it is all coming to ahead here soon. I can not wait for those dirty pigs to get locked up.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/holder-announces-ferguson-probe-review-of-st-louis-county-police-practices/2014/09/04/1cae963c-3452-11e4-8f02-03c644b2d7d0_story.html

Hell I might just go get locked up with them so I can see the show first hand. What goes around comes around in this life or the next. I can not wait to see the fear on their faces when the doors lock and they got no back up or a gun to protect them. Because in prison they will be the catch of the day every day till they kill themselves. May God have mercy on their souls because nobody on the inside will!!1
 

albrecht

Quote from: Zoo on September 04, 2014, 08:26:37 PM
Well it is all coming to ahead here soon. I can not wait for those dirty pigs to get locked up.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/holder-announces-ferguson-probe-review-of-st-louis-county-police-practices/2014/09/04/1cae963c-3452-11e4-8f02-03c644b2d7d0_story.html

Hell I might just go get locked up with them so I can see the show first hand. What goes around comes around in this life or the next. I can not wait to see the fear on their faces when the doors lock and they got no back up or a gun to protect them. Because in prison they will be the catch of the day every day till they kill themselves. May God have mercy on their souls because nobody on the inside will!!1

Who knows what happened Zoo but I will not trust Eric Holder to find out (or his minions.) He has been involved with too much in the past. His history alone should recuse him from dealing with any abuse of authority or legal investigations!  I understand you have an agenda or grudge against the police and I also worry and have posted about the over militarization of the police. However, I'm not sure this "gentle giant" is the proper martyr. Especially his previous events and social media postings. Of course, simply because a "big black guy who steals cheap cigars and posts on social media with guns and booze underage" doesn't deserve to be shot on that account. But, also, it does seem the "gentle giant" had a certain mindset. As Wall St banks say "previous performance does not indicate future results" and as our common law heritage gives us "previous crimes are not admissible" but....that also applies to the policeman. No? Maybe not because police should be held to a higher standard but still the slaying of the "gentle giant" justifies burning and looting? What did those small business owners do to deserve that? Heck, one report I saw said the store owner didn't want to report even (not sure if that is true.) I understand some hesitation with regard to police but Holder and the Feds is NOT the answer. And neither is formenting an "US against THEM" attitude towards LEO! That is what "THEY" want (fill in the "THEY" to the more militant police, the Feds, etc.) It is far better to get to know LEO, join them, get involved in local elections for Sheriff, Constables, etc. Not advocate (not that you personally did) be against them. There are certainly bad apples (and many), but not the majority. But don't push it over the edge so the percentages change! The Feds already promote the "US against THEM" and militarize and Holder had been a supporter of this for decades. He is NOT the answer for the problems. (1) (whatever that "1" means)


pate

Quote from: Zoo on August 12, 2014, 07:50:37 PM
Well when that happens you end up fighting every day to do whats right while society as a whole tries to crush you

"Constitution" , lucky my forebears had friends...

Conspiriacy theory!  Opps, Conspiracy Fact!


Quote from: paladin1991 on August 16, 2014, 01:53:43 AM

Ask this question.  "As a Police Officer, what is your primary duty?  Keeping the peace or enforcing the law?"  Think thru the answer.  We used to be trained here (in the Peoples Republic of California) to 'keep the peace.'  Hence the P.O.S.T. certification, Peace Officers Standards and Training.  Here, too many coppers are saying that they are there to enforce the laws.


That's an excellent observation, paladin.  I wish our society didn't need police forces, but as long as human nature has its dark side I accept and am grateful for them.  I appreciate the work cops do under stressful, dangerous conditions, while their every action is scrutinized and they're expected to be perfect at all times, no matter what hassles and hardships they may be facing at home and in their personal lives.  I've always been impressed by the way most of them conduct themselves professionally and dispassionately.  Sure, there are bad cops, but I don't judge the many by the actions of the few.

I would much rather have police officers keeping the peace than enforcing the law to letter.  I've been in group situations where people were breaking a few laws while having fun, and the police left them alone because nobody was causing any serious trouble.  Those officers are the ones who tend to be respected and admired by the community.  And I've seen the opposite, where overzealous enforcement of a peaceful situation resulted in nothing but hostility and lingering resentment and mistrust.  I see it as the difference between Andy and Barney.  Andy was a peace officer, who kept order in the community by respecting his fellow citizens, making common sense decisions based on individual circumstances, and overlooking minor technical violations of the law when taking action would have resulted in much greater harm to the person and community in general.  Barney was a law enforcement officer, who insisted on rigid compliance with every statute on the books, never gave anyone the benefit of the doubt, went out of his way to look for crime, and tended to treat each one he found, no matter how petty or inadvertent, as a serious threat to society.  It's not surprising that Andy was by far the more effective and respected of the two.


Zoo

What makes a cop good?
By the ruling of the courts police have no duty to protect citizens their only job is to enforce the law.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_v._District_of_Columbia 

No good cops.

http://www.christophercantwell.com/2014/05/17/myth-good-guy-cop/

http://www.theroot.com/articles/culture/2014/08/where_are_the_good_cops.html

http://www.portlandoccupier.org/2012/02/10/blind-justice-why-theres-no-such-thing-as-a-good-cop/#sthash.XEqmoU0d.dpbs

Keep lying to your self to make your world what ever you want it to be. While the rest of us do something about it!!1

albrecht

Quote from: Robert Ghostwolf's Ghost on September 05, 2014, 12:51:02 PM
That's an excellent observation, paladin.  I wish our society didn't need police forces, but as long as human nature has its dark side I accept and am grateful for them.  I appreciate the work cops do under stressful, dangerous conditions, while their every action is scrutinized and they're expected to be perfect at all times, no matter what hassles and hardships they may be facing at home and in their personal lives.  I've always been impressed by the way most of them conduct themselves professionally and dispassionately.  Sure, there are bad cops, but I don't judge the many by the actions of the few.

I would much rather have police officers keeping the peace than enforcing the law to letter.  I've been in group situations where people were breaking a few laws while having fun, and the police left them alone because nobody was causing any serious trouble.  Those officers are the ones who tend to be respected and admired by the community.  And I've seen the opposite, where overzealous enforcement of a peaceful situation resulted in nothing but hostility and lingering resentment and mistrust.  I see it as the difference between Andy and Barney.  Andy was a peace officer, who kept order in the community by respecting his fellow citizens, making common sense decisions based on individual circumstances, and overlooking minor technical violations of the law when taking action would have resulted in much greater harm to the person and community in general.  Barney was a law enforcement officer, who insisted on rigid compliance with every statute on the books, never gave anyone the benefit of the doubt, went out of his way to look for crime, and tended to treat each one he found, no matter how petty or inadvertent, as a serious threat to society.  It's not surprising that Andy was by far the more effective and respected of the two.
The Andy Griffith (my favorite show of all time) analogy is a good one. Except in our case our "Barneys" are not good people and they don't just carry an empty revolver and a bullet in his pocket but have military-grade equipment and high-capacity pistols and assault rifles. I recall being amazed in Amsterdam. Some Italian guy had fled a bar without paying. Police quickly caught him and he was sort of flailing around and speaking Italian gibberish. Instead of beating him, tasering him, or shooting him the police found his friends and asked if he had any drugs earlier. They replied that he drank quite a bit and smoked some hash. The police allowed the friends to cover the bar tab, talked to the Italian and calmed him down, and let the friends take him back to their hotel. No beating, no arrest, not even a ticket. They actually were trying to help him. Not confront him. In the USA the police all too often confront someone on a substance or with mental problem and it ends in a death. On the good side, I have heard that some departments are starting to have specially trained police in dealing with suicidal, emotional troubled, or "crazy" people but most just resort to force and too often guns.

Quote from: Zoo on September 05, 2014, 04:06:13 PM
What makes a cop good?
By the ruling of the courts police have no duty to protect citizens their only job is to enforce the law.

No good cops.

Not one?  Anywhere?  You know that as an absolute?

Quote
Keep lying to your self to make your world what ever you want it to be.

I wish I could make my world whatever I wanted it to be by lying to myself, because then it would be perfect.

QuoteWhile the rest of us do something about it!!1

Okay, you got me. I'm the only person not doing something about it, and even though we've never met you knew that with absolute certainty.  So, please tell me what I should do that I'm not doing now? 

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