“What the hell is a bitcoin?”

Started by Kate the Bionic Uterus, December 20, 2013, 11:35:32 PM

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Dr. MD MD

Quote from: Lord Grantham on December 08, 2017, 07:17:27 AM
Amazon is a CIA operation.

You really are fucking unhinged.

Am I? Am I really?!  ???

http://www.businessinsider.com/cia-600-million-deal-for-amazons-cloud-2013-3

Sorry that your world has been crumbling lately. How's the impeachment going?  :D

Gd5150

Quote from: Jackstar on November 30, 2017, 01:32:09 PM
Note that, 11 years after "the predictable mortgage collapse of 06," people are still using mortgages.

Mortgages are not tech fantasy crap, their value is backed by hard assets. How’s your AOL stock doing?

Gd5150

Quote from: WOTR on December 08, 2017, 04:57:39 AM
Now there is a market that is going to be offering futures in bitcoin.  Fucking futures.

Great! Then it can be shorted, and real money can be made.

Lord Grantham

Quote from: Dr. MD MD on December 08, 2017, 08:09:02 AM
Am I? Am I really?!  ???

http://www.businessinsider.com/cia-600-million-deal-for-amazons-cloud-2013-3

Sorry that your world has been crumbling lately. How's the impeachment going?  :D

WOW a private company signed a contract with a federal agency.

My company has a contract with Amtrak, does that make me a conductor?

Jackstar

Quote from: Gd5150 on December 08, 2017, 10:26:29 AM
Mortgages are not tech fantasy crap,

https://www.sprottmoney.com/Blog/fractional-reserve-banking-is-pure-fraud-part-i-jeff-nielson.html


Quote from: Gd5150 on December 08, 2017, 10:26:29 AM
their value is backed by hard assets.

That's really, just your opinion.


Quote from: Gd5150 on December 08, 2017, 10:26:29 AM
How’s your AOL stock doing?

I've never owned stock in AOL--I don't even own any Bitcoin. You're an idiot, and your assumptions demonstrate that.

Jackstar

Quote from: Gd5150 on December 08, 2017, 10:30:36 AM
it can be shorted, and real money can be made.


You clearly don't even know what money is. "Real money" is made, when value is added to society--a bunch of faggots placing bets on a bunch of other faggots is not creating wealth, it's just cutting it up into confetti and throwing it in the air.

DIAF.

Dr. MD MD

Quote from: Lord Grantham on December 08, 2017, 10:48:57 AM
WOW a private company signed a contract with a federal agency.

My company has a contract with Amtrak, does that make me a conductor?

specious argument...but you knew that.  :D

Look, do you really expect a whole nation of people to keep going along with your MSM/CIA bullshit while you call them all crazy for being able to think logically...really?!  ;D


albrecht

Quote from: Jackstar on December 08, 2017, 09:02:17 PM



actual dumbest money
Anyone want to buy some tulips? I got the best bulbs in town...

WOTR

Quote from: Jackstar on December 08, 2017, 11:14:36 AM

You clearly don't even know what money is. "Real money" is made, when value is added to society--a bunch of faggots placing bets on a bunch of other faggots is not creating wealth, it's just cutting it up into confetti and throwing it in the air.

DIAF.
I may quote this in the future.  A better explanation than any university professor has ever given.  If life were fair, and the game not rigged, you should expect to hear from the Nobel prize committee this year.

WOTR

Quote from: Dr. MD MD on December 08, 2017, 05:20:00 AM
Hmmm...I guess you've never heard of hackers. Everyday more and more evidence is coming out (evidence you'd know about if you did more than consume MSM brainwashing) about how things are rigged. Facebook, Twitter, Amazon and so many more are all CIA ops...but you think crypto is legit. I'm not filled with confidence. However, for those who got in early they've made a fortune...IF they get out at the right moment.  ;)
This is where that public ledger comes into play.  You can see every coin and every transaction to the beginning of time on the network.  It is also where the whole idea of miners and security comes into play.  It is hackable- if you are able to assemble over 50% of the computing power working on it.  This was a concern years ago when a mining "pool" got to be too large.

As it stands, you can see every coin and every address where they reside to know how many are out there and how many created.  The network will not accept any coin other than what is on the public ledger unless the person trying to spend (or double spend) a coin controls 51% of the computing power.

I get you don't like it and are suspicious.  And I confess that it has flaws- but having been hacked is not one of them.

On the other hand, the darkcoin (dash) that I mentioned earlier is looking at going from a proof of work to a proof of stake model.  That will pose security issues as well as making it so that the rich get richer and lock the little guy out.  I like the concept of secrecy- but I think it is time to trade dash for BTC (or ETH or???)

Jackstar

Quote from: WOTR on December 08, 2017, 10:54:59 PM
And I confess that it has flaws- but having been hacked is not one of them.

I don't think you know what "hacking" is.

WOTR

Quote from: Jackstar on December 08, 2017, 11:05:20 PM
I don't think you know what "hacking" is.
Care to explain how the cia hacked bitcoins ledger?  MD seems to think that they could create new coins somehow after hacking. Or is it the open source wallets?

Again, I will give you that going in through the OS or the ISP's they probably know who controls most wallets (including me as I was never careful creating them.)  Even then, there are ways around that concern...  But I don't buy the "hacking bitcoin" and making it unsecure or being able to inflate the number in circulation like fiat.

Jackstar

Quote from: WOTR on December 08, 2017, 11:10:59 PM
Care to explain how the cia hacked bitcoins ledger?

I don't think you understood the subtext behind my comment.



WOTR

Quote from: Jackstar on December 08, 2017, 11:11:56 PM
I don't think you understood the subtext behind my comment.
Probably not.  It has been too long a week to try to figure out Jack, Star.  ;)

Jackstar


WOTR

Quote from: Gd5150 on December 08, 2017, 10:30:36 AM
Great! Then it can be shorted, and real money can be made.
You do  realize that it will be shorting a derivative- not an actual bitcoin?  Unless people sell off bitcoin and the price drops, you can short the derivative until the cows come home with no real effect (this providing that people trading in bitcoin do not start taking their cues from the derivative... Hard to say if that will be the case.)

I have been thinking a little about a "fair valuation" for crypto- and it is difficult.  Generally, an asset should have some "floor", and an abvious ceiling on value.  If copper cannot be mined for less than 20 cents per pound- that is your practical floor as mines will start closing. If the price reaches $5 / pound every mine will pump it out and the price will drop giving you a practical ceiling.  As noted, most traditional financial products are physical or based on some (often arbitrary and imaginary) value.

How do you value crypto?  Litecoin went from $100 to $160 in 12 or 14 hours today.  Why not?  It was worth $5 a year ago- why not $500 tomorrow?  Why not .25?  I got into "mining" because I got a kick out of the idea... Now it is becoming stupid.

WOTR

Quote from: Gd5150 on October 04, 2014, 06:06:14 PM
The problem with Bitcoin is its a pyramid scheme. At best you may make a few bucks a 5,000% profit. At worst you'll lose it all. And there is no reason to use it vs real currency.
FIFY.  ;)



albrecht

I posted before on this but new developments. A relative got hacked (likely stupidly fell for some fake email or something) by those "russian hackers," before that was cool. And got that ransomware on his computer that locked up all his files. They demanded payment in bitcoin and, since he didn't back up his stuff, he was willing to pay. I think it was a several hundred dollars demanded. Of course the process of buying bitcoin was a bitch but he did it and paid off the hackers. But had some small "bits" left over since the price of the bits kept changing during the negotiation process. He finally tracked down the "wallet," or whatever, and now his partial bits are over a grand. And paying the ransom initially also unlocked all his files. And he learned a lesson about backing up your stuff. So, in a weird way, being "hacked" by russians paid off and was a good thing?

Jackstar

Quote from: albrecht on December 09, 2017, 10:57:31 AM
So, in a weird way, being "hacked" by russians paid off and was a good thing?


Still--superior to a Clinton presidency.


Dr. MD MD

Fox news is talking about bitcoin and their "financial expert" said if you have a hundred dollars in the bank it's always a hundred dollars whereas bitcoin can go up and down in value.  ::) :D

WOTR

Quote from: Dr. MD MD on December 09, 2017, 03:40:05 AM
bird in hand>bird in bush  ;)
In this case, the bird deprecates due to inflation every year and will end up worthless and dead.  All stocks and financial instruments are people trying to trade their old, sick bird in the hand for a slightly younger, healthier bird in a bush.  :)

***I don't think I recommend getting into it at this stage.  I cannot see much upside (mind you, I looked back on this thread and found myself saying that at the $200 level.)  I did it as an experiment- because it made me smile.  I think there are other asset classes that I would probably invest in if it were meant as an investment (particularly at this stage.)

Just the same- there are members who have been calling it a pyramid scheme and saying that collapse will happen "any day now" for the last few years. With the recent spike, that would seem more likely now.  But they were also calling it worthless at the $300 level.  I believe there is some value in it- but as I had posted, have a very difficult time knowing what a fair value is...

WOTR

Quote from: Dr. MD MD on December 09, 2017, 01:51:18 PM
Fox news is talking about bitcoin and their "financial expert" said if you have a hundred dollars in the bank it's always a hundred dollars whereas bitcoin can go up and down in value.  ::) :D
Again, playing devils advocate... That hundred dollars that will buy you a nice dinner at a fancy restaurant today will buy you a cheese burger in a couple of decades.  (On the other hand, that $100 of bitcoin may buy you a Porsche in a few decades or only be worth a cheeseburger next week and a single sheet of toilet paper in a few decades.)

Dr. MD MD

Quote from: WOTR on December 09, 2017, 05:31:22 PM
In this case, the bird deprecates due to inflation every year and will end up worthless and dead.  All stocks and financial instruments are people trying to trade their old, sick bird in the hand for a slightly younger, healthier bird in a bush.  :)

***I don't think I recommend getting into it at this stage.  I cannot see much upside (mind you, I looked back on this thread and found myself saying that at the $200 level.)  I did it as an experiment- because it made me smile.  I think there are other asset classes that I would probably invest in if it were meant as an investment (particularly at this stage.)

Just the same- there are members who have been calling it a pyramid scheme and saying that collapse will happen "any day now" for the last few years. With the recent spike, that would seem more likely now.  But they were also calling it worthless at the $300 level.  I believe there is some value in it- but as I had posted, have a very difficult time knowing what a fair value is...

Keep going!  ;D


albrecht

Quote from: WOTR on December 09, 2017, 05:34:41 PM
Again, playing devils advocate... That hundred dollars that will buy you a nice dinner at a fancy restaurant today will buy you a cheese burger in a couple of decades.  (On the other hand, that $100 of bitcoin may buy you a Porsche in a few decades or only be worth a cheeseburger next week and a single sheet of toilet paper in a few decades.)
There seems to be so many types of 'coins' out there now. Are they traded on a central market place or have some exchange rate system around them (imagine there is no central authority or clearing house etc?)) Are there options, future markets, and short-selling stuff available? Any derivatives yet? Index funds?

Lord Grantham

Quote from: albrecht on December 12, 2017, 01:44:33 PM
There seems to be so many types of 'coins' out there now. Are they traded on a central market place or have some exchange rate system around them (imagine there is no central authority or clearing house etc?)) Are there options, future markets, and short-selling stuff available? Any derivatives yet? Index funds?

Short answer: No

Long answer: Nope

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