Started by Kate the Bionic Uterus, December 20, 2013, 11:35:32 PM
Quote from: wotr1 on September 12, 2014, 10:19:44 PMI find it very interesting that you are happy with this turn of events. I am one of the few who (somewhat) agrees with you that a bitcoin in its purest form is actually superior to fiat currency.This move seems to move further away from the bitcoin ideal. When the US government sold the coins seized from the silk road and shut down exchanges I became more concerned.When the idea behind the cryptocurrencies is the most free wheeling open market currency available you have to be concerned once it starts falling to the governments to regulate it. Essentially, you are celebrating regulation, taxation, commodification and government control.You go ahead and celebrate this "victory" and I will say it spells the begining of the end of the experiment. Already governments have declared that bitcoin is taxable. Now it will fall under "know your customer" laws. Transaction fees are decried and hated in the crypto community, but they readily accept that fees paid to escrow are necessary. Now we will have a financial products company taking their cut as well.The only thing to make the destruction of bitcoin complete is a fractional banking system. I have confidence that the best and brightest on Wall Street will have some way to bring that in within a few years (will it be deposit BTC and lend in USD?) Who knows. For now I will restate my displeasure at the very event that you celebrate. Oddly, it is not because I believe it will drive the value down (it may well help legitimize BTC and drive the value up.) However, I am in it for the principal and find this is a major erosion or the values behind crypto.The easiest (and only) way the government was ever going to neutralize the threat that a freely traded "currency" that was out of their control posed was to regulate it until it was impotent. Argue that this is an "opt in" model and that only a small number of investors have taken advantage if you choose- but in essence this paves the way for compete control over a system that was supposed to be outside of the governments control. It opens the door to Goldman Sachs to game what was supposed to be ungamable and manipulate what was supposed to be out of their control.Good bye Bitcoin...
Quote from: albrecht on September 14, 2014, 04:03:16 PMI admittedly do not know much about bitcoin but two things I question:1) the whole "mining" thing. Does that end at some point? Isn't this the same as a government "printing money" and cause inflation or undermines the bitcoins?2) this whole idea that the transactional history of the bitcoin is contained in the coin. Doesn't that mean it is even more trackable than cash (and even more trackable and surveillable than credit cards?) So much for privacy.
Quote from: wotr1 on September 15, 2014, 04:40:33 AM Trying to track down the person behind those addresses is very difficult. The FBI would have had the wallet addresses of the owner of the silk road and it took them years to identify him.
Quote from: wotr1 on September 15, 2014, 04:40:33 AMThe first question was pretty much answered. They are created at a predetermined rate. That rate is halved on a schedule (making them much harder to mine.) There is an end.A bitcoin is completely open- you can track it. However, if I create a wallet on a new computer there is no need to link the wallet to my personal identity. They are as anonymous as the owner of the wallet wants to make them (and has the technological know how to make them.)If I buy something from a store, that business has it show in their wallet. This also means that their competitors would know how many bitcoins they bring in and how many are sitting in their wallet. It is also what makes escrow work so well for services and goods. The person holding the escrow has a wallet that is completely public. Everybody can see that they hold the coins and it keeps things honest as long as the holder of the escrow values their reputation.With that said, there is almost no way to know who a random wallet address belongs to. i can create a new one tomorrow and it would have not history. On the other hand, if I purchase a pizza and send bitcoin to a wallet I would know the wallet address and the identity of the person. Once they move it I could still track where it goes- but there is almost no way that I would know if it went to their supplier, and employee or to purchase another service.Finally, there are "laundering" services. Basically, you submit your coins to the service. They "mix" them with hundreds of others and distribute them to the end source. Bits and pieces of each coin end up mixed with the others and it creates a kind of anonymizer although the information is completely public and available.That is pretty much how the silk road worked. I would create a wallet, buy bitcoins for cash, forward them to the dealer along with my address and they would send me the drugs, guns, fake passport or what have you. I trust the dealer not to release my name (and there was at least one case of somebody who threatened to do just that.) The owner of the silk road supposedly "solicited a murder-for-hire" of a Canadian Silk Road user nicknamed FriendlyChemist who had tried to extort money by threatening to release the identities of thousands of the site's users.It goes on and on and gets quite interesting. The short answer to your question is that the record of where coins came from, reside and are sent is completely public. Trying to track down the person behind those addresses is very difficult. The FBI would have had the wallet addresses of the owner of the silk road and it took them years to identify him.I hope at least most of that made sense. It is late... If you want clarification on something ask and I will try to respond when I am more awake.
Quote from: Gd5150 on September 15, 2014, 05:13:54 PMForget digital pyramids....precious metals are where its at!
Quote from: zeebo on September 15, 2014, 05:59:56 PMHow much can I get for my old tinfoil hats?
Quote from: wr250 on September 15, 2014, 07:32:36 PMaluminum is probably around $1/lb at the salvage yard now.
Quote from: area51drone on September 15, 2014, 09:10:35 AMProbably not. My guess is they knew who he was almost immediately and took years building a case against him that would stick.
Quote from: albrecht on September 15, 2014, 03:18:42 PMThanks for the detailed reply. I still don't quite understand the whole "wallet" vs the "bitcoin" itself and why the "coin" needs to have a transactional history. Somehow I would think this, at least eventually, would lead to tracking or monitoring its movement. But you say that it can be "anonymized" by some service (then why have the internal transactional tracking system in place in the first place if it can be modified.) I would rather it be like cash or bearer bonds. Whoever has them can use them and who ever receives them can use them but you can't tell (unless you have testimony or film or tracking the serial numbers) who is using them for what.
Quote from: Kate the Bionic Uterus on September 12, 2014, 01:07:20 PM As I have predicted; U.S. federal trade commission watchdogs approve trading Bitcoinhttp://online.wsj.com/articles/teraexchange-launches-bitcoin-derivatives-exchange-1410543989This news was just posted online only 30 minutes ago. I can hear the foreheads dropping onto the desks as I type this with groans of, "I should of listed to that bitch." Well you should of. Instead you chose to the predictable path of negativity and you got exactly what you deserved... nothing. While 99.9% of the membership of Bellgab dismissed cryptocurrencies and one member even declaring that this was the year it would jump the shark (still laughing at that one), what you missed out on was the crime of the decade. While everyone thought that all the problems with exchanges over seas and with the fbi silk road busts that the value of bitcoin would keep falling to zero, you missed out on the incredible buying opportunity that revealed itself right in front of your eyes.As I yelled and screamed for everyone to wake the fuck up you were just too dumb to listen and recognize the greatest financial opportunity since the dot com craze of the 90's. So who was listening? Post after post I link articles of investors and financial groups investing billions of dollars into the framework and structure but the regular old man's brigade kept drinking and dribbling their regular bullshit. There was only ONE man who stepped up and said maybe she knows what she is talking about. Don't worry about it guys. There will be another outstanding and even more financially fluid opportunity coming around in about 30 years. So you'll all have the chance to repeat your brilliance and do the exact same thing. At that time I'll be retiring off of the profits from the investments I have made into the capital management companies (some of which I listed in this thread) that have been major players. So how many of you even own any bit coins? Oh well then. Keep drinking and smoking weed. The aliens will be landing soon
Quote from: Camazotz Automat on September 15, 2014, 10:49:13 PMHey, Lady Gaga's aunt, I mean Kate. Long time no see. Nice to see you arrive with all guns blazing. It keeps us on our toes. It also results in some interesting, informative, and amusing posts from other members. You never know where the subject will turn, due to the nature of the technology being discussed.Hope you're doing well, you bit(ch)coin, you. [attachimg=1]
Quote from: Gd5150 on September 15, 2014, 11:16:53 PM[attachimg=1]People had to take his form of payment. Otherwise he'd get angry, and you wouldn't like he when he gets angry.
Quote from: wotr1 on September 15, 2014, 09:53:15 PMA couple more quick replies now...As late as 7 months before they shut the silk road down they still did not know who he was. Prosecuters in Maryland had sealed an indictment against "John Doe." Until he could be identified and arrested. They did not know who he was at that point...
Quote from: area51drone on September 16, 2014, 12:36:58 AMJust because they claim that doesn't mean they didn't know. If they were doing illegal things (like they do all the time recording every phone call we make), then I think they knew and just didn't let the prosecutor know until they had some real way to do it without breaking some law. But I could be wrong, obviously all we can go by is the documents you posted, and so - whatever, it is interesting, as you say.
Quote from: wotr1 on September 17, 2014, 11:50:44 PM I guess I just think of Snowden and I realize that there are still some loopholes (albeit that they are trying desperately to plug them...)
Quote from: Kate the Bionic Uterus on September 12, 2014, 01:07:20 PM As I have predicted; U.S. federal trade commission watchdogs approve trading BitcoinThis news was just posted online only 30 minutes ago. I can hear the foreheads dropping onto the desks as I type this with groans of, "I should of listed to that bitch."
Quote from: Georgie For President 2216 on September 23, 2014, 01:07:11 PMPaypal announced new small move towards using Bitcoin. Bitcoin has jumped $50 in the past hour or so.http://www.forbes.com/sites/ryanmac/2014/09/23/paypal-takes-small-step-toward-bitcoin-partners-with-cryptocurrency-processors/markets.blockchain.info
Quote from: Georgie For President 2216 on September 23, 2014, 01:07:11 PMPaypal announced new small move towards using Bitcoin. Bitcoin has jumped $50 in the past hour or so.
Quote from: Gd5150 on October 04, 2014, 06:06:14 PMThe problem with Bitcoin is its a pyramid scheme. At best you may make a few bucks. At worst you'll lose it all. And there is no reason to use it vs real currency.
Quote from: wotr1 on October 04, 2014, 05:35:43 PMI believe bitcoin was at $480 when Kate posted that we would all regret not getting in on the action. It dropped to $405 (and yes, had a spike when paypal made an announcement.) Now reality has sunk in and we are down at $330 today.
Quote from: zeebo on January 18, 2015, 01:39:18 AMBitcoin price dropped below $200. Glad I couldn't figure out how to buy one.