For U.S. repubs>> Who is the leader of the party right now?

[FightTheFuture]

I also saw a TP-sponsored "Impeach Obama?" poll banner --note the obligatory tax-status-protecting question mark; that's a textbook example of a "push poll."
Don't those idiots --excuse me: those deeply concerned patriots-- understand that you need criminal charges to begin an impeachment?  Just what would those be?  "Being Black" isn't a de jure crime yet, no matter how much the TPers might want it to be.Exactly.  Very.

It's all about race, is it? If you believe that, as it appears you do, you are nothing more than a blabbering simpleton, pissing hate into a stiff head wind. A race-baiting, ignoramus parroting the likes of Janeane Garofalo and Al Sharpton.

[Yorkshire pud]

It's all about race, is it? If you believe that, as it appears you do, you are nothing more than a blabbering simpleton, pissing hate into a stiff head wind. A race-baiting, ignoramus parroting the likes of Janeane Garofalo and Al Sharpton.

If he's to be impeached for criminal reasons; What would they be?

[SciFiAuthor]

Race is just a talking point used to get past Obama's provable gross incompetence. One just needs to look at Obamacare to see that this guy has fucked up very seriously and no amount of talking points will defeat the hit to everyone's checkbook. But there's plenty more: an awful amateurish mishandling of the Middle East that's incomprehensibly led to United States foreign policy being little more than a source for Putin to crack jokes, a terrible, terrible, terrible pork spend that was claimed to be a stimulus package that ultimately failed to work, scandalous energy policy sold under the auspices that it's a good thing for you to pay more for electricity(!), and a whole ton of other shit. And that's not even broaching the topics of misusing the IRS for political gain, which is criminal, and a very lacking and weak response to the NSA scandal, which is probably unconstitutional.

I am neither a conservative nor a republican, but Barack Obama has badly failed. The framers fucked up when votes of no confidence weren't given to Congress. If the guy was running the country satisfactorily, I'd be ok. But no one can say he's running it satisfactorily without deluding themselves.

I am so fucking tired of the games of the Demo-Lib-Publicans. Give it the fuck up guys. How about we focus on pragmatic solutions to actual problems, instead of the bullshit wedge issues you fuckers tote out and fight about until the cows come home while the rest of us watch our standards of living, rich and poor, threatened by your stupid fucking policies that absolutely refuse to account for global realities and logic. Not a single one of you, Democrats, Republicans nor Libertarians have got it right.

God, US politics is like the twilight zone.

[SciFiAuthor]

If he's to be impeached for criminal reasons; What would they be?

Using the IRS for political retribution would be criminal if you can find a prosecutor willing to pursue it. Of course, he and his appointees are also conveniently in charge of investigating such allegations and control the facts, so predictably it's gone nowhere. This is a glaring flaw in the US system, we do not have truly independent oversight of our politicians.

Christie should be crucified for pulling the same shenanigan in New Jersey, jailed really, and Obama should be subject to the same. You do NOT take retribution of ANY kind against ANY citizen for ANY reason from a position of purely political power. It is unethical to do so. Even if you didn't know it happened, it is simply too dangerous to the well-being of the people for your political career to survive it. If you didn't know, then you dropped the ball and should have had an infrastructure in place to know; it's as simple as that. Mismanage in that way and you get fired. If you did know, then you need to go to prison.

That's not happening. Obama seems to have gotten away with it, and Christie most likely will too.

[Yorkshire pud]

You do NOT take retribution of ANY kind against ANY citizen for ANY reason from a position of purely political power. It is unethical to do so. Even if you didn't know it happened, it is simply too dangerous to the well-being of the people for your political career to survive it. If you didn't know, then you dropped the ball and should have had an infrastructure in place to know; it's as simple as that. Mismanage in that way and you get fired. If you did know, then you need to go to prison.

It's something that has happened (and still does) happen here. We have politicians from all sides of the spectrum who have been found to be willfully incompetent/ malicious or both, and it's later found they knew it that the 'newly' revealed information wasn't new after all. "Oh, thaaat! Well, I didn't know about that, it must have been an underling who didn't keep me informed, I'll make sure they fall on their sword, meantime I'm sorry I was taken in by their clearly incompetent/ malicious actions"

Notable exceptions were Margaret Thatcher who carried on killing the non supporting parts of the UK (mainly the north of England, Scotland and Wales) without shame, without remorse, without conscience, and still believed it was the right thing to do when all their evidence was there to prove otherwise. Later, Bliar did it with Iraq 2, and Afghanistan. Lesser politicians have done things in their own departments. We have revolving doors whereby politicians who have a department (E.G. Defence) and pander to the lobbyists, ensuring procurement that frequently goes against the professional advice or pragmatism of those who know; and what do you know? When the minister steps down (or is voted out) he gets a 'consultancy' post in the aforementioned lobby firm. Same goes for the civil servants, same goes for the heads of various quangos. They or their policies screw up a department and they get appointed to another post, on at least the same salary they left plus the pay off severance package that can run to about $1.5 million. Nice work if you can get it. It's been happening for years, and across all colours of the spectrum.

[FightTheFuture]

There are a number of issues that, arguably, could be considered fertile ground for a serious conversation on impeachment proceedings against the President. Those potential arguments will never come to full fruition, mostly due to the stonewalling of the White House and a lapdog compliant justice  dept.

With that said, there exist  one very clear violation of the Constitution on the part of the President. Obama's decision to postpone, and alter the provisions of the Affordable Healthcare Act, with respect to its implementation, contravenes the Constitutional requirement that the  President ''shall take care that the laws be faithfully executed...''

[NowhereInTime]

There are a number of issues that, arguably, could be considered fertile ground for a serious conversation on impeachment proceedings against the President. Those potential arguments will never come to full fruition, mostly due to the stonewalling of the White House and a lapdog compliant justice  dept.

With that said, there exist  one very clear violation of the Constitution on the part of the President. Obama's decision to postpone, and alter the provisions of the Affordable Healthcare Act, with respect to its implementation, contravenes the Constitutional requirement that the  President ''shall take care that the laws be faithfully executed...''

Oooooooooooooweee!  You got 'im Matlock!!!!

[FightTheFuture]

Oooooooooooooweee!  You got 'im Matlock!!!!

Ha! As if I'd even be caught dead in a seersucker suit.

Now, Valerie, Dear Leader would like you back under his desk, where you belong.

[Ben Shockley]

Using the IRS for political retribution would be criminal if you can find a prosecutor willing to pursue it.

You skipped over a really important "IF" in that scenario.

How 'bout: IF you can find any evidence that such "retribution" happened.
Talking heads on Faux "News" fulminating as if it was canonical truth doesn't count as "evidence."

[Ben Shockley]

It's all about race, is it? If you believe that, as it appears you do, you are nothing more than a blabbering simpleton, pissing hate into a stiff head wind. A race-baiting, ignoramus parroting the likes of Janeane Garofalo and Al Sharpton.

OOOOOH what a burn!  Man, he just totally discredited me by linking me to...uh... what exactly?  Am I supposed to be mortified and silenced by that, or what, FTF?
You seem sort of personally worked-up there, FTF.  Did I strike a shameful, visceral nerve?

You know, boys: I would actually appreciate it if you cowardly racists in here would just come out and admit that you can't stand Obama or anything his administration does for the simple reason that he's half Black.  Why do you even deny it?  As FTF so richly demonstrates, you have no respect for what the likes of me think, so why are you trying to hide the truth that (according to you) only America-haters like me would mind anyway?   In other words, it's only "blabbering simpletons and ignoramuses" who mind racism, and real men aren't afraid of punks like us, so why don't y'all just come out and let your racist flags fly high?  Because-- I've got news for you, boys: your sputtering angry protestations AIN'T FOOLING ANYBODY AT THIS POINT.

Of course, I won't say that "I'd have respect for you" if you freely admitted the basis of your anti-Obama mania.  I can have no respect for racists, and particularly none for those who are willing to destroy a country rather than see it temporarily led by someone they despise on the basis of nothing more than petty, ignorant bigotry.  I won't have "respect" for you, but at least I won't have to view you with extra contempt for being lying cowards as well as racists.

[PB the Deplorable]

Is that really all you've got, Ben?

Are you really so afraid that the Conservatives message of liberty and opportunity appeal to most Americans, so they must be smeared and lied about at every opportunity, in the most contemptible way?  Do you really think discussion about Obama and his incompetence and the shabby actions of him and his administration on this very forum have no basis in fact?


For everyone else who wonders why political discord is where it is in this country, please read some of Ben's earlier posts.

[Ben Shockley]

As the nerves are struck, so the nervous squeal forth:

Is that really all you've got, Ben?

When you "hit the nail on the head," that's all you need.

Are you really so afraid that the Conservatives message of liberty and opportunity appeal to most Americans, so they must be smeared and lied about at every opportunity, in the most contemptible way?

You mean like y'all have done to Obama since he announced his candidacy?
And by "the Conservatives message...appeals to most Americans," I guess you mean "except in national elections"..?
(Oh, wait: that's right-- those are always "stolen" when the Republican doesn't win, right P*B?)

Do you really think discussion about Obama and his incompetence and the shabby actions of him and his administration on this very forum have no basis in fact?.

Exactly.  Note my caveat to SciFiAuthor above: Talking heads on Faux "News," or your favorite right-wing radio-talking Republican shill, fulminating as if something is canonical "fact" doesn't make it so.

For everyone else who wonders why political discord is where it is in this country, please read some of Ben's earlier posts.

Translation: All discourse and action from the Right is gentleness, sweetness, and light.  All social tension --indeed, all ill of all sort-- emanates from the Left.  Everything would be just dandy in right-wing P*B World if people like me would either die or just shut up and let them live in their ever-more-impoverished, ever-more-miserable, ever-more-paranoid --but familiar!-- little mentally-incestuous coccoons of bigotry.
P*B's logic declares: we wouldn't have the horror of "war" if one side would just accept the self-evident rightness of their invaders or attackers and just not fire back!

[NowhereInTime]

Is that really all you've got, Ben?

Are you really so afraid that the Conservatives message of liberty and opportunity appeal to most Americans, so they must be smeared and lied about at every opportunity, in the most contemptible way?  Do you really think discussion about Obama and his incompetence and the shabby actions of him and his administration on this very forum have no basis in fact?


For everyone else who wonders why political discord is where it is in this country, please read some of Ben's earlier posts.

You're kidding, right?  All you ever bring to the party is Mao and a box full of 'sky's!

Conservatives are classic double talkers; you talk liberty and opportunity while denying to anyone trying to climb the socio-economic ladder.  Why don't you ever just come out and admit all you care about is a safe, white haven where the browns go home after cutting your lawn and  bagging your groceries, where you can hoard your ill gotten piles of wealth, where your "women" don't talk back and don't interfere in a "man's" workplace, and where you are taxed for nothing but have plenty of jackboots to keep your lucre safe?

As to why political discourse has run amok in this country?  Well, try being told you're a "thug" or the disciple of some random guy named "Alinsky" and that your thoughts and beliefs are "un-American" and "contrary to our Constitution" and tell me that doesn't want to make you crap in someone's chocolate cream pie!

[Ben Shockley]

...As to why political discourse has run amok in this country?  Well, try being told you're a "thug" or the disciple of some random [scary] guy... and that your thoughts and beliefs are "un-American" and "contrary to our Constitution" and tell me that doesn't make you want to crap in someone's chocolate cream pie!

Yeah, there's that.
No, really: all that from "some of P*B's earlier posts" (as he would accusingly identify anyone else's stuff) is just totally justifiable, necessary, accurate categorization of what he honestly believes are Mortal Threats to His World.   By right-wing standards, that is.
Remember the Double Standard, Nowhere.  Stuff is only bad or (as the self-righteous righties in here love to say) "gratuitous" if you or I do it.  Name-calling is fine when done from the Right, because they do it in the HIGHER CAUSE of God and Corporate Profits.  When you or I use a little gusto in calling a spade a spade (no pun intended), we're just --I quote: "blabbering simpletons and ignoramuses."

[FightTheFuture]

you or I use a little gusto in calling a spade a spade (no pun intended), we're just --I quote: "blabbering simpletons and ignoramuses."

In light of your fondness for tired cliches, here's one for you: if the shoe fits; wear it.

Oh, and another thing; what I said about you, concerns only you. Your juvenile attempt to lump NowhereInTime together with you is ...kind of pathetic. NIT may be a bit of a snarky popinjay at times, but he at least sticks to the the facts, and presents a cogent argument.

[West of the Rockies]

Popinjay, FTF?  How old are you?  I thought I sometimes made use of old-time words and expressions, but I haven't heard popinjay in a long damn time!  Oh, well, I probably shouldn't cast aspersions:  I am known to still say groovy and flash peace signs.

[FightTheFuture]

Popinjay, FTF?  How old are you?  I thought I sometimes made use of old-time words and expressions, but I haven't heard popinjay in a long damn time!  Oh, well, I probably shouldn't cast aspersions:  I am known to still say groovy and flash peace signs.

Far out!

[Ben Shockley]

In light of your fondness for tired cliches...

Your juvenile attempt  to lump NowhereInTime together with you is ...kind of pathetic.

Damn, this guy is biting.  In more ways than one.
Okay, 'cause I want to be just like you, and win friends and influence people, educate me, FTF:
Illustrate my "fondness for tired cliches."  Give me some examples, but please: show me some that people would, by general consensus, agree are "tired cliches."  Please also show enough of them that one can infer a "fondness."  Caveat: "something you don't like" nor "information you disagree with" do not constitute a "tired cliche."  And, "fondness" cannot be inferred from one example.
In other words: since we live or die here by the written word, you're sorta attacking my core forum being.  So put up or shut up, Big Man.

Hmmm... and my suggesting common cause with another poster makes me "juvenile and pathetic."  But you ridiculing and attacking me for making that suggestion --which itself may be based on stuff whose totality is unknown to even a Superior Mind like yours-- well, what does that make you, aside from an ignorant, presumptuous wanna-be with the divide-and-conquer mentality of an insecure high-schooler?

I think you need to drastically pull back from your obvious personal vendetta here, FTF.  Let me remind you that whatever insult you're perceiving from me is entirely self-inflicted.  If it's the perceived label of "racist" that's rankling you: hey, you appropriated that for yourself off of whatever I wrote.  I haven't called YOU anything, until you popped up on my radar screen today, so why don't you further educate me and tell me why you feel so personally aggrieved (I mean: your explanation for it; I'm pretty sure I know the real reason).  Anyway-- you know: if the shoe fits, wear it.  But don't blame the off-the-rack shoe store when those shoes you insisted on buying hurt.

[FightTheFuture]

Damn, this guy is biting.  In more ways than one.
Okay, 'cause I want to be just like you, and win friends and influence people, educate me, FTF:
Illustrate my "fondness for tired cliches."  Give me some examples, but please: show me some that people would, by general consensus, agree are "tired cliches."  Please also show enough of them that one can infer a "fondness."  Caveat: "something you don't like" nor "information you disagree with" do not constitute a "tired cliche."  And, "fondness" cannot be inferred from one example.
In other words: since we live or die here by the written word, you're sorta attacking my core forum being.  So put up or shut up, Big Man.

Hmmm... and my suggesting common cause with another poster makes me "juvenile and pathetic."  But you ridiculing and attacking me for making that suggestion --which itself may be based on stuff whose totality is unknown to even a Superior Mind like yours-- well, what does that make you, aside from an ignorant, presumptuous wanna-be with the divide-and-conquer mentality of an insecure high-schooler?

I think you need to drastically pull back from your obvious personal vendetta here, FTF.  Let me remind you that whatever insult you're perceiving from me is entirely self-inflicted.  If it's the perceived label of "racist" that's rankling you: hey, you appropriated that for yourself off of whatever I wrote.  I haven't called YOU anything, until you popped up on my radar screen today, so why don't you further educate me and tell me why you feel so personally aggrieved (I mean: your explanation for it; I'm pretty sure I know the real reason).  Anyway-- you know: if the shoe fits, wear it.  But don't blame the off-the-rack shoe store when those shoes you insisted on buying hurt.

Take your fucking Ritalin, already.

Yeeesh

[Ben Shockley]

Take your fucking Ritalin, already.
Yeeesh

So I'm mentally ill for responding.
Hey, that's sort of a cliché cop-out from responsibility for carrying out what you start, ain't it FTF?

He proves my characterization of the bullying right-wing logic: there would be no "conflict" if one party would just accept the pre-eminence of it's opponent and just stop fighting back.
Any clichés in that one, FTF?

[SciFiAuthor]

You skipped over a really important "IF" in that scenario.

How 'bout: IF you can find any evidence that such "retribution" happened.
Talking heads on Faux "News" fulminating as if it was canonical truth doesn't count as "evidence."

I think the IRS commissioner found all sorts of evidence, which was in turn enough to put Lois Lerner on administrative leave. It was enough for my own senator, Democrat Claire McCaskill, to advocate we fire the IRS head and anyone linked to the scandal. She wasn't the only one, I'm not saying anything here that Democrat Charlie Rangel didn't publically say in a statement on the matter.

The question now is who knew. Did it go to the top? Well, I want that question answered from both Christie and Obama alike. In the case of Obama, it is Congress' duty to appoint a special prosecutor. If Obama has nothing to worry about, he should call for one himself to restore public trust in the tax system. That it has not yet occurred seems problematic and questionable at best.

This case is not something to make excuses for just because you happen to support Obama. This is not Russia and we cannot risk allowing a climate to form where politicians use government offices for retribution against the opposition.

[FightTheFuture]

So I'm mentally ill for responding.
Hey, that's sort of a cliché cop-out from responsibility for carrying out what you start, ain't it FTF?

He proves my characterization of the bullying right-wing logic: there would be no "conflict" if one party would just accept the pre-eminence of it's opponent and just stop fighting back.
Any clichés in that one, FTF?

You said all TEA Party activists are racist. I was perfectly content to remain silent until you leveled that utterly  ludicrous accusation. The moment you call anyone a racist, any constructive conversation is immediately truncated -- you have, effectively, exposed your true colors.

I responded to one of your copremesis tirades, and that, as they say, is that. I simply don't have the time or  energy to waste on a classless, spiteful, witling like you. Enjoy.

[gbneely]

I thought the Attorney General had to appoint an Independent Counsel.

[SciFiAuthor]

I thought the Attorney General had to appoint an Independent Counsel.

You're right, replace "congress" with "Holder".

[gbneely]

Which explains the lack of an appointment.

[NowhereInTime]

...NIT may be a bit of a snarky popinjay...

I think I have found my new screen name!

[Yorkshire pud]

I think I have found my new screen name!

Embrace it, nurture it..

[Ben Shockley]

It's too bad that FTF wants to be done with me; he's not earning any points for stamina nor accuracy.  I hoped he would show me where I

said all TEA Party activists are racist

Because I didn't.  I do believe it, but I didn't write it, so I wonder where he thinks he saw it.

But on to bigger business:

The moment you call anyone a racist, any constructive conversation is immediately truncated... [exposing] your true colors

Ah, so the official word from FTF is: there is no such thing as "racism."  To invoke the term is to dream about unicorns and elves.  Note FTF's italicization, for emphasis, of "anyone."  The textual implication of that is that no one is a "racist."  That is beyond absurd.
Uh, no-- what "truncates conversation" and "exposes true colors" is denying the existence of actual stuff that has real effects on people.  That denial, I would suggest, is in the hopes that one can throw people off the tracks of what he's really about.

I do understand FTF's point about "constructive conversation," except that I think that, at this point, that's an attempt at simultaneously enhancing his dignity while rationalizing out of this.  I was not trying to engage in "conversation with FTF," nor with anybody else of presumable like mind with him, when I wrote the passage he apparently found insulting, nor, since he has effectively denied the legitimacy to discourse-- if not the existence-- of "racism," am I interested in "conversation" with him.
Given his apparent concern with conversational niceties, it's odd that FTF chose to open actual direct exchange with me with attempted insults.  Presumably, he finds (attempted) personal insults less offensive than non-directed commentary about "racism."  All that, after (and I repeat) I had not addressed nor named nor alluded to him in any way.  The passage he apparently found insulting was specifically in regard to people who had posted an ad in this site, and any insult or slight that he perceived was only willingly appropriated (should I say: sought out?) by him from commentary that I had directed to and for people here whom I consider a bit more like-minded to me.

I have to say though: these righties are a trip!  They deny the existence of real phenomena when the discussion makes them nervous, yet they imagine non-existent events and confabulate conspiracies that somehow justify their worldviews (which in turn are full of the stuff they don't want mentioned).

I'm a little embarrassed that, in dealing with my new pal FTF, I didn't catch onto this sooner: that name-- "Fight The Future"-- could any notion be more futile?  Just a few days ago, he claimed I was "pissing in the wind," but at least the wind eventually dies down; the future never stops coming.
Still, it seems appropriate for the kind of folks he seems to want to champion against mean ol' spiteful me: his precious TPers and "Patriots."  Those folks are scared shitless of "the future" with all the change --most scarily, demographic change-- it portends.  Their tribalist mindset, set as it is on the annihilation of anybody "not like them," can't incorporate how anyone not of "their group(s)" could not want to murder them.  Out of that, a terror that only intensifies existing racism is understandable.  It's just not warranted.
Anyway, I'll just think of my new buddy Fight The Future (FTF) as "FP" instead -- "Futility Personified."

[PB the Deplorable]

...  The textual implication of that is that no one is a "racist."  That is beyond absurd...

Correct.

The Democrat Party was the party of slavery and fought a war in support of it.  Then for the next 100 years they were the proud party of Segregation and the KKK.

To this day that party is intentionally suppressing black America by mis-educating them in the lousy schools they control, encouraging crime, and driving jobs and businesses out of their neighborhoods. They are the ones counting noses, putting people in categories, and constantly insisting America is a racist country - which accomplishes nothing except to convince kids to give up on life before they even try.

Poor impoverished dependent inner cities are the modern Plantations, and the Big City black politicians - including Obama - are the modern day Uncle Tom's.

Yes, craven manipulative racism is alive and well.  For the sake of votes and holding onto high office

[Ben Shockley]

The Democrat Party was the party of slavery and fought a war in support of it...

Sweetie, you forgot to spell it "DemocRAT."  If you don't do it right, you might as well add the "-ic" at the end.

Yes, craven manipulative racism is alive and well.  For the sake of votes and holding onto high office

Exactly.  In every decision, statement, and action of your precious Publican Party.