For U.S. repubs>> Who is the leader of the party right now?

[onan]

Correct.

The Democrat Party was the party of slavery and fought a war in support of it.  Then for the next 100 years they were the proud party of Segregation and the KKK.

Yeah the democrats changed their position though... now just the republicans want slaves.

[Ben Shockley]

Yeah the democrats changed their position though... now just the republicans want slaves.

Right, onan ... I started to do a list about how words change in English, including political Party names...
he just frustrated me enough that I shut up for a while....

[FightTheFuture]

It's too bad that FTF wants to be done with me; he's not earning any points for stamina nor accuracy.  I hoped he would show me where IBecause I didn't.  I do believe it, but I didn't write it, so I wonder where he thinks he saw it.

My God, man. If you were any smarter, you`d be retarded.

You didn`t say some, or a few. Oh, no. You were all-encompassing ( see below) in your bizarre, albeit sophomoric, accusation. Truthfully, only a spineless little punk makes a statement like that, especially when there isn`t a scintilla of evidence to prove it. They probably all beat their wives and molest their children, too, huh? In your tiny little mind, all things conservative are, by default, evil. You know what? You`re nothing but a fucking cowardly little chump. And on that note, vai a farti fottere. Dio mi perdoni.



" "Being Black" isn't a de jure crime yet, no matter how much the TPers might want it to be.Exactly.  Very."

[Yorkshire pud]

only a spineless little punk makes a statement like that, You know what? You`re nothing but a fucking cowardly little chump.

Can I be there when you tell Ben all that up close? For someone who from time to time espouses his Christian credentials, you're not very Christian in your language; whatever would Jesus say? Jesus wasn't a right winger though..

[Kate the Bionic Uterus]

In your tiny little mind, all things conservative are, by default, evil.

No, no my dear! I think you have misunderstood things a little wee bit. All things conservative are not evil, most are narrow minded and selfish.
self·ish
ˈselfiSH/
adjective
adjective: selfish

    1.
    (of a person, action, or motive) lacking consideration for others; concerned chiefly with one's own personal profit or pleasure.

The evilness comes from people like the Koch brothers who "cue evil laugh here; Muhuhahaha...) use conservative family values and twist them around their evil agenda and in the middle of the night break into sweet innocent conservative American Christian homes and FUCK them up their asses and then sell them over priced prescription haemorrhoid medication to make'em feel better about socialist leftist conspiracy that is their mutual pain in the ass.

I swear it's true... you can learn all about it on FOX!!!

[PB the Deplorable]

No, no my dear! I think you have misunderstood things a little wee bit. All things conservative are not evil, most are narrow minded and selfish.
self·ish
ˈselfiSH/
adjective
adjective: selfish

    1.
    (of a person, action, or motive) lacking consideration for others; concerned chiefly with one's own personal profit or pleasure...

Wait, are we describing Conservatives here or Obama's refusal to fix or end his incredibly destructive 'Affordable Care' Act - now that everyone knows it's a job killing insurance killing disaster?

Or perhaps you are describing the Dem's insatiable greed for endless tax dollars to waste, buy votes with, or pass along to their cronies?  Or the petty need to constantly steal little pieces of our Liberty instead of leaving people alone to make their own decisions?

[Yorkshire pud]

constantly steal little pieces of our Liberty instead of leaving people alone to make their own decisions?

This is on the assumption that all 310 million of your population should be allowed to make their own decisions. 6% believe in unicorns, 80% believe in angels and nearly a million believe they've been abducted by aliens.. I accept that they might all be the same people, but it's scary they're allowed to breed and out unsupervised. I take it you disagree with the whole concept of delegation, leadership and subordination? By definition that takes away the universal independent decision making.

[PB the Deplorable]

This is on the assumption that all 310 million of your population should be allowed to make their own decisions. 6% believe in unicorns, 80% believe in angels and nearly a million believe they've been abducted by aliens.. I accept that they might all be the same people, but it's scary they're allowed to breed and out unsupervised. I take it you disagree with the whole concept of delegation, leadership and subordination? By definition that takes away the universal independent decision making.

I think we should be trusted to choose our own light bulbs, showerheads, and which bags to carry our groceries home in

Not to mention who to hire, how much to pay them, how to manage our own land, what cars to drive, on and on and on

[Yorkshire pud]

I think we should be trusted to choose our own light bulbs, showerheads, and which bags to carry our groceries home in

Not to mention who to hire, how much to pay them, how to manage our own land, what cars to drive, on and on and on

I can show you photographs of landfills the size of towns that are mainly plastic bags that isn't going to degrade anytime soon. But it's okay, because you don't have to see it if you don't want to. So 'choosing' which bags to use might not be as simple as simply saying you have 'rights'. Similarly which cars to drive; Sure, if you want to to drive something that does 10 miles to the gallon, go ahead, but you complain that your petrol is what, $3.60? Wait until you pay what we do now.. Then you'll really have something to complain about, that's of course if you'll be able to buy any. You don't think anyone should have a living salary then? You know, enough to actually pay for things that will boost the economy instead of simply (and often) unsuccessfully existing. You want it all ways. You don't want people on welfare, but neither do you want those that do work to have a living wage.

[PB the Deplorable]

I think people make better decisions for ourselves than politicians do.  Even when they are actually working for us instead of their cronies, which isn't very often.

We hire them to take care of the infrastructure, run the schools, courts, emergency services, etc.  Not only do they do a really shitty job of it - including incredible waste - they are really more interested in getting their noses into our business.

These people usually have zero experience or understanding of anything other than how to get themselves elected or appointed, yet they want to run everything except what they've been hired to do.  And we all just go along with that.  It's insane.


If plastic bags are a problem - and I agree they are - why not try to persuade rather than always the heavy handed Soviet-style tactics?  And the same with the other behavior modifications they have in store for us?

And by the way, it's your own damn fault gasoline is so expensive in Europe.  The difference in price is all taxes your government has imposed on you.


As far as a living wage, these same geniuses encouraged the export of our jobs.  All they have to do is slap tariffs on what comes back, but they don't.  We don't need them to take care of us, we just need them to do their jobs, then get out of the way (part of their job being creating an environment that encourages economic expansion.  Another part is expanding opportunity, especially to those who don't know how to access it - but they'd rather keep those people poor, dependent and voting for them).

[Yorkshire pud]

I think people make better decisions for ourselves than politicians do.  Even when they are actually working for us instead of their cronies, which isn't very often.

We hire them to take care of the infrastructure, run the schools, courts, emergency services, etc.  Not only do they do a really shitty job of it - including incredible waste - they are really more interested in getting their noses into our business.

These people usually have zero experience or understanding of anything other than how to get themselves elected or appointed, yet they want to run everything except what they've been hired to do.  And we all just go along with that.  It's insane.

Then as I've said often enough, vote someone in who will disband the infrastructure of a central government, and instead have a collective philosophy society. That the very workers who generate the wealth are given the power to determine their own wealth creation structure. In other words a Marxist philosophy. You've already said politicians have zero experience and understanding, so do without politicians, all of them.

If plastic bags are a problem - and I agree they are - why not try to persuade rather than always the heavy handed Soviet-style tactics?  And the same with the other behavior modifications they have in store for us?

Because although persuasion does work to a point, the corporate fingers have huge lobby influence, and the bottom line is the bottom line; did you know recycled paper is more expensive than non recycled if it's to be used for high quality print? Strange but true; So what do print firms do? Well unless it's specifically specified by the customer, they steer away, to keep costs down. The only way to make recycled paper 'sexy' is to bring in specifications that are enforced that ensure X% of ALL paper is recycled. A level playing field, and of course it ultimately puts costs up, but that's the shock of the reality. We've lived on the fat too long. It isn't Soviet tactics, it's reality. If it were Soviet tactics you'd have a pile of bureaucracy with some bloke signing it, passing it to the next and the next and the next, and at the end no paper would be made because no-one was in charge to make the decision. 

And by the way, it's your own damn fault gasoline is so expensive in Europe.  The difference in price is all taxes your government has imposed on you.

I know; but without those taxes we wouldn't have a great deal of the stuff we have that you don't. Such as free health care for all.

As far as a living wage, these same geniuses encouraged the export of our jobs.  All they have to do is slap tariffs on what comes back, but they don't.  We don't need them to take care of us, we just need them to do their jobs, then get out of the way (part of their job being creating an environment that encourages economic expansion.  Another part is expanding opportunity, especially to those who don't know how to access it - but they'd rather keep those people poor, dependent and voting for them).

The export of jobs came about because of the upsurge of China and India. The companies answer to only their share holders. They're compelled by company law to ensure the greatest return on investment. If that means they have widgets made in China at 50c instead of $4.00 then China is where they'll be made. This forces salaries down in the US as the small companies try to compete, but prices still rise. People lose jobs because the small companies go to the wall. The corportates don't give a shit, why should they? They're alright, Jack.

The alternative is to impose a massive (200% plus) import duty on everything that comes into the USA; and then really watch your economy fall like a dropped piano. The Chinese companies installed in the USA won't let that happen. Honda built a plant in Reagan's era, when Reagan put in legislation to try and support Harley Davidson. The cost of importing a Honda Goldwing was punishing, so Honda being Honda simply took advantage of (oh irony) low tax low rent start up packages IN California (irony part 2)...It not only employed people, who probably saw for the first time how a motorbike didn't have to look like a tractor, but brought down the cost that American bikers could afford...Oh, I bet HD's boardroom had some glum faces!

[PB the Deplorable]

... Then as I've said often enough, vote someone in who will disband the infrastructure of a central government, and instead have a collective philosophy society. That the very workers who generate the wealth are given the power to determine their own wealth creation structure. In other words a Marxist philosophy. You've already said politicians have zero experience and understanding, so do without politicians, all of them...

Marx said the state would simply fall away and collectivism would 'happen' of it's own accord.  I'm all for it - when does this begin?

... I know; but without those taxes we wouldn't have a great deal of the stuff we have that you don't. Such as free health care for all...

Which means it isn't 'free'.  It's grossly expensive.

[Dasein]

Ronald Reagan, the spirit of that is.  This is a problem because no one seems to have the charisma or internal philosophy to step up and provide consistent, constitutionally-based conservative leadership.  We can't rely on the ever dissipating words and deeds of a former president to carry the day.  We need to play the effective Demo's race and gender game by enabling a woman with broad appeal (no pun intended) to the great unwashed uneducated in this country. 

The Demos have cunningly learned that substance is the least important leadership criteria on the list of a simple majority of American citizens.

[Dasein]

Marx said the state would simply fall away and collectivism would 'happen' of it's own accord.  I'm all for it - when does this begin?

After the Earth gets hit by an asteroid the size of the Moon.

[FightTheFuture]

We need to play the effective Demo's race and gender game by enabling a woman with broad appeal (no pun intended) to the great unwashed uneducated in this country. 

The Demos have cunningly learned that substance is the least important leadership criteria on the list of a simple majority of American citizens.

After what the lefties did to ...well, let`s see; Clarence Thomas, Dr. Thomas Sowell, Herman Cain, Sen. Tim Scott, Sarah Palin, Condi Rice, Michele Bachmann, and many others, I wouldn`t blame anybody if they chose to avoid navigating a gauntlet  of far-left media and hollyweird culture snobs, caballed with high-priced leftist political operatives.

[Yorkshire pud]

Marx said the state would simply fall away and collectivism would 'happen' of it's own accord.  I'm all for it - when does this begin?

Just as soon as you vote someone in on that ticket...OR you could start a revolution, get the 'patriots' on board with Alex Jones at the front, and march on DC..Off you go... Just remember, when you start, you have to either win or fail, you won't have a second chance.

Which means it isn't 'free'.  It's grossly expensive.

Really? I pay (roughly equivalent) $8.20-50 per gallon for petrol. If on my journey burning that gallon I have an RTA and I survive it, In order this is what that tax will have contributed to. The road I'm driving on, the paramedic, the police, the firecrews cutting me out. The Ambulance that takes me to Hospital. A&E (ER), Triage, any and all meds, X Rays,  theatre time, ANY othopaedic, Maxio facial, Cardio thoracic, blood, hospital time to recover..physio therapy, outpatients, possibly more X Rays, ongoing physio, and any and all follow ups..

That's apart from any and all elective and emergency surgery I may need.  Be it CV, haematology, orthopaedic, oncology, physio therapy, X rays..etc..

You pay $3.60, I pay $8.50... $5 per gallon gets me something a great deal of your population in a civilised society can't access. Not for me to do the persuasion job on you, but lets hope you and your family will always be in a position to afford what your insurance might pay for.

[RedMichael]

Its a real shit sandwich when the discussion always floats around "Well who is the least bad?".

[Yorkshire pud]

Its a real shit sandwich when the discussion always floats around "Well who is the least bad?".

Isn't that how it is? We vote against someone, rather than for someone else.

[RedMichael]

Always, but we seem to ignore this or just handwave it off as being a part of life.

What is worse is we go from being somewhat objective in the primaries to forcing ourselves to endorse/like/love whatever candidate that gets nominated. I mean, the last primary was pathetic...but somehow, the winner turned into the next dream maker.

I have seen a ton of people hate on a guy, then the guy wins the nomination, then the same people love him. Its kind of depressing. Lets be honest with ourselves and just admit certain candidates suck but I am just going to vote for him anyways because: I am bitter, he is in my party, the news told me to, etc etc.

Maybe if each side can openly declare that their respective candidates are horrible then the next generation of politicians can learn to not turn out like that. Our generation? Lost. There is nobody in any party that really strikes me as a leader. There are a few with great ideas but that doesn't make them a leader. Its kind of sad.

"Empires are built by the blood of the young and destroyed by the bickering of old men"

[Yorkshire pud]

Always, but we seem to ignore this or just handwave it off as being a part of life.

What is worse is we go from being somewhat objective in the primaries to forcing ourselves to endorse/like/love whatever candidate that gets nominated. I mean, the last primary was pathetic...but somehow, the winner turned into the next dream maker.

I have seen a ton of people hate on a guy, then the guy wins the nomination, then the same people love him. Its kind of depressing. Lets be honest with ourselves and just admit certain candidates suck but I am just going to vote for him anyways because: I am bitter, he is in my party, the news told me to, etc etc.

Maybe if each side can openly declare that their respective candidates are horrible then the next generation of politicians can learn to not turn out like that. Our generation? Lost. There is nobody in any party that really strikes me as a leader. There are a few with great ideas but that doesn't make them a leader. Its kind of sad.

"Empires are built by the blood of the young and destroyed by the bickering of old men"

Well here in the UK it works differently to your system.  Each party nominates a candidate to the respective constituency (650 in total); A town/city/district might have one or more depending on size. Their may be two, three, four or as many parties standing in each. There may be a local election if the incumbent has died, retired or some other reason for a vacancy. At the general election it happens anyway. The 'count' is not by whittling down candidates who will make up the majority/minority, but a simple majority of the votes cast..In my view it's fundamentally flawed because if 20% of the electorate bother to get off their arse to vote, and of those voting, 30% vote for a party against another ten (who have the 70% split between them), it means that the minority of the electorate have voted for the MP in the government. I'm all for proportional representation, but that too has it's flaws, because it ends up being a committee where alliances are formed for selfish reasons, and endless discussions on the smallest details. I'm not sure there is a one size fits all answer for elections in principle. Every method has at least one flaw, most many.

[Ben Shockley]

In reference to me:

...only a spineless little punk makes a statement like that...
You`re nothing but a fucking cowardly little chump...

Uh, you can call me "wrong," you can call me "spawn of Satan," but exactly where do you derive "spineless" or "cowardly" or "little punk/chump?"
How is my attempt to go post-for-post with you (when I can be up) "cowardly?"

FP, I know that you're probably bemused by Tom Clancy novels into thinking that registration as a Republican voter qualifies you as a Teutonic Knight who is a priori more manly than anyone you will EVER encounter online, but it really doesn't!  Now get off your high horse of random Latin words and tell everybody precisely why I'm a "coward" and "spineless" and a "punk" and a "chump" for disagreeing with you and saying so.

--y'all got that?  'Cause I get in his figurative face, I'm a "coward"..?  Go figure!   Like I have been telling you, there is no rhyme nor reason from these rightie freaks!

[NowhereInTime]

After the Earth gets hit by an asteroid the size of the Moon.

Oh, sweet!  Republi-snark!  Always gutfuls of laughs!!

[NowhereInTime]

We need to play the effective Demo's race and gender game by enabling a woman with broad appeal (no pun intended) to the great unwashed uneducated in this country.

Ho hoooooo!  Mega dildoes!! Love that "harmless" wink and nod misogyny.  Little ladies oughta know their place!

[NowhereInTime]

The Demos have cunningly learned that substance is the least important leadership criteria on the list of a simple majority of American citizens.

Actually, we have Don Regan, Lee Atwater, and Karl Rove to thank for that.

[West of the Rockies]

I am starting to encounter the notion that we may not have heard the last from Mitt Romney.  A couple articles suggested he may well run yet again in '16.  Do any of you self-identified conservatives have an opinion on that?  He turns 67 next months, so in '16 he'd be 69 (a little long of tooth perhaps).  There is still the Mormonism issue the perceived (in my opinion very real) elitism, and other issues.  I'd like to think the Republican party can do better than this retread, but maybe I'm wrong.

[Kate the Bionic Uterus]

  There is still the Mormonism issue...

hahaha that's what I love to see from the right wingers, their own bigotry against their own party members... fuch yeah, thanks for the laugh, now I can go to sleep happy lmao

[West of the Rockies]

For the record, Kate, in case you don't really know me well on this forum, I am anything but a rightwinger myself.  I just think that the batch of potential candidates in '16 looks pretty thin on both sides.  If HC runs, she's probably got it.  I just don't know really and truly what she stands for, what her administration would attempt to accomplish.  Biden looks like just a career guy.  Those on the right just look pretty scary to me.

[Kate the Bionic Uterus]

For the record, Kate, in case you don't really know me well on this forum, I am anything but a rightwinger myself.  I just think that the batch of potential candidates in '16 looks pretty thin on both sides.  If HC runs, she's probably got it.  I just don't know really and truly what she stands for, what her administration would attempt to accomplish.  Biden looks like just a career guy.  Those on the right just look pretty scary to me.

Okies, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt however I am sure you can see how this read...

HC has a 70% approval rating. That is not thin. It is inheard of in american politics. People like her, even if you don't. Unless she does something idiotic it is hers to lose. The reason why the right hate her (well there's lots of reasons) is mainly because they know everything about her already. There is nothing to dig up. Military officials have already been on the record supporting her leadership style and the way in which she has conducted herself since she left the current admin has been brilliant.

The last time something like this happened was when Kennedy ran for the parties nomination and forced a sitting president to give up seeking his parties nomination.

The republican's worst enemy are the republicans. As long as they have racist sympathizers like the Pauls and ditzy airheads like  Palin and Bachmann and now the newly crowned king of narrow mindedness and outright stupidity ted cruz...

... if you ask me it seams the republican strategy is to keep dividing the country and then divide the divided until they are so heated up that they just explode.

The right has missed a real opportunity to come together and create a real plan that with real ideas to counter the fiasco that is Obamma care.

And because they can't even do that, there is zero chance of them winning. As I said before; People will vote for a stupid idea than no idea at all.

[West of the Rockies]

You know, I keep hearing about the so-called Obamacare fiasco, but that is not my experience.  I am 50+ and watched my insurance bill drop several hundred dollars (with better coverage to boot).

It's funny, those on the far right see Cruz as a viable candidate, someone who "strikes fear" in the hearts of liberals.  Those on the left, independents, and mainstream righties see him as a divisive loon.  You may be right, Kate, regarding Hillary and her approval rating.  If she runs, we'll hear once more about Vince Foster and other boogymen from people like Limbaugh.  I just I wished I had a stronger sense of her agenda.

[Kate the Bionic Uterus]

Medi-care reform is not the fiasco, the roll out and planning of it was and still is the fiasco. Obamma mamma hast lost the PR war. He has very little political capital left if any. Fortunately the republicans are too divided to do anything about it.

I am not an Obamma fan. I think he let personal emotions sway him from taking advantage of the opportune moment for banking reform. Instead he let and continues to let the fraudulent bankers and corporate fascists steal America's future by eliminating the middle class.

He has been the biggest political disappointment in my lifetime. I really believe Romney was the better choice but the baggage he came with (mainly the koch brothers) and the fact that he just didn't come across as an average and likeable guy in the media killed his chances. Especially when he failed to win the second debate. He needed a knock out and he was far from that. it is too bad because Romney had the experience (financial, the olympics and he was govenr of a state that successfully rolled out the first medicare reform.)

You can blame the tea party and other in party child like squabbles for almost all the solvable problems in the US. It is too bad because anyone with a half of brain cell would agree with their main message; to stop washington entitlements and lower government spending.

So the real question is; If everyone on the right and the left agrees with what their agenda is, then why can't they win an election?