Rock On! John B. Hosts Rockers This Saturday

[UnscreenedCaller]

Eddie Coyle, for adding Frank Zappa to that list, I salute you.

[Eddie Coyle]

         The thread began with our initial optimism and hope for a good show from Wells has deliquesced into a bubbling pool of annoyance, irritation, bemusement and diminished expectation. It's our fault for expecting brilliance from a special needs student.

              Here's part 2 of the "duds that weren't that bad" in my music nerd opinion. *some of these albums weren't "duds" per se, but roundly ignored and can be described as forgotten or obscure.

          David Bowie, Lodger, 1979
          Rolling Stones, Their Satanic Majesties Request, 1967, Goat's Head Soup, 1973
          Thin Lizzy, Renegade, 1981
           Paul Rodgers, Cut Loose,1983
           ZZ Top, Rio Grande Mud, 1972
           Harry Nilsson, Son of Schmilsson, 1972
           The Who, Odds n Sods, 1974, The Who By Numbers, 1975
           Tony Williams, Turn It Over, 1970
           Al DiMeola, Splendido Hotel, 1980
           Frank Zappa, The Grand Wazoo, 1972
           Mahavishnu Orchestra, Between Nothingness and Eternity, 1973
           John McLaughlin, Devotion, 1970
           Rush, Caress of Steel, 1975
           Lou Reed, Live, 1975  Street Hassle, 1978
           Little Feat, The Last Record Album, 1975
           Steve Hunter, Swept Away, 1977
           Mitch Ryder, Detroit, 1971
           Pentangle, Reflection, 1971
           Fairport Convention, Fairport Live Convention, 1974
           Sandy Denny, The North Star Grassman and the Ravens, 1971
           Iggy Pop/James Williamson, Kill City, 1977
           Sweet, Give Us A Wink, 1976
           Yes, Tales From Topographic Oceans, 1973, Tormato, 1978, Yesshows, 1980
           Leslie West, The Great Fatsby, 1975
           Deep Purple, Concerto For Group and Orchestra, 1969
           King Crimson, Lizard, 1970
           Chicago, At Carnegie Hall, 1971
           Cheap Trick, All Shook Up, 1980
           Van Morrison, Veedon Fleece, 1974
            Uriah Heep, Innocent Victim, 1977
           
               Thus concludes this list from someone born way too fuckin' late.




           



           









         

[Sardondi]

Props to a man who knew his music.

I'd like to particularly comment on your choice of Their Satanic Majesties Request, and Goat's Head Soup as overlooked gems. I tend to agree with some reservation. It's notable you've chosen the bookends of the Stones' "Murderers' Row" of Beggars Banquet, Let It Bleed, Sticky Fingers and Exile On Main Street, which albums, covering 1968-1972, are generally considered the apotheosis of their work. It certainly is for me (and I think it is no accident that the over-representation of blues championed primarily by Brian Jones was fading considerably at the beginning of that streak, and had settled down to a kind of mandatory minimum by the end).

I generally agree about Satanic Majesties. But in 1973 and for years afterwards I detested Goat's Head Soup. I thought it marked the point of The Great Decline. Some of the problem no doubt was my reaction to the tremendous over-saturation play at the time of "Angie", surely intended as the "Wild Horses" of Soup. I hated "Heartbreaker"  as well, I think also because of the overplaying on radio.

I've since recovered on "Heartbreaker" with it's brass-heavy contrapuntal hook...or something. But "Angie" is asking too much: all that youthful trauma. But in general I think Soup can be considered worthy to sit near what was the Stones' Led Zeppelin "Runes" (IV).

It's certainly better than abominations like "Miss You", "Shattered", "Emotional Rescue", "Waiting On A Friend" or "Harlem Shuffle". Ye gods, the Stones were never too proud to follow a trend to the hilt.

[Eddie Coyle]

Props to a man who knew his music.

I'd like to particularly comment on your choice of Their Satanic Majesties Request, and Goat's Head Soup as overlooked gems. I tend to agree with some reservation. It's notable you've chosen the bookends of the Stones' "Murderers' Row" of Beggars Banquet, Let It Bleed, Sticky Fingers and Exile On Main Street, which albums, covering 1968-1972, are generally considered the apotheosis of their work. It certainly is for me (and I think it is no accident that the over-representation of blues championed primarily by Brian Jones was fading considerably at the beginning of that streak, and had settled down to a kind of mandatory minimum by the end).

I generally agree about Satanic Majesties. But in 1973 and for years afterwards I detested Goat's Head Soup. I thought it marked the point of The Great Decline. Some of the problem no doubt was my reaction to the tremendous over-saturation play at the time of "Angie", surely intended as the "Wild Horses" of Soup. I hated "Heartbreaker"  as well, I think also because of the overplaying on radio.

I've since recovered on "Heartbreaker" with it's brass-heavy contrapuntal hook...or something. But "Angie" is asking too much: all that youthful trauma. But in general I think Soup can be considered worthy to sit near what was the Stones' Led Zeppelin "Runes" (IV).

It's certainly better than abominations like "Miss You", "Shattered", "Emotional Rescue", "Waiting On A Friend" or "Harlem Shuffle". Ye gods, the Stones were never too proud to follow a trend to the hilt.

            Thanks for engaging me on this topic, I'll hope you'll indulge me here because the Stones are a band that absolutely madden me, who were "The Greatest Rock And Roll Band", but managed to piss that sobriquet away whilst making more money and becoming more famed in the process.

      (I) Satanic Majesties was a great failed experiment, I think it was needed for them-and probably conceived while their 1967 drug bust(s) imbrogio was occurring. The album's poor reception from the chattering classes probably convinced the emerging dyad that perhaps psychedelia was best left in the hands of the Procol Harum/Pink Floyd/The Move crowd and a return to rustic roots was in order, and perfect timing as well since John Wesley Harding/Music From Big Pink/Sweetheart of the Rodeo surge would turn psychedelia on it's ear.

    (II) 1968-72 is their inarguable peak,IMO(though many of the  older literati like Christgau act as if they've sucked since 1966) and not coincidentally, saw Jagger-Richards rubbing shoulders with Ry Cooder/Gram Parsons etc. Even the "throwaways" were brilliant like "Memo From Turner"(Ry on slide) or their cover of Stevie Wonder's "I Don't Why". And the music was so good that you could overlook what twits they were with their Jean-luc Goddard idiocy and Angela Davis boostering. And Mick Taylor became such an integral component, playing with a technical ability they've never had since. And Taylor actually was taking a step back, because Mayall let him do more...see Crusade or Blues From Laurel Canyon

   (III)  The decline. Smack is the easy answer. But it's deeper. I detest "Angie", and most of their singles beginning from this point. Lazy Motown covers, Berry rip -offs. It's pretty weak when Billy Preston is becoming your driving force. Goat's Head is an album I will never love, but there's interesting stuff there, a song like "Winter" recalls "Moonlight Mile"...oh yeah, both were conceived and performed without Keith. Isn't that funny.

(IV) December, 1974 is Taylor's departure and I feel the band never recovered. Those chose a Keith clone(Ron Wood-so good with Rod/early Faces 69-72) over the far more skilled Harvey Mandel or Wayne Perkins and the music became secondary to the "image". Dangling cigarettes took precedence over skill, Jagger got gayer with each tour, Black and Blue had proto-disco and Some Girls actual disco...it's just a bleak tale since. One that is dismally depessing, as their sheep fill stadia and buy the same crud over and over. They have a "new" hits package due next month. I own nothing of theirs after 1975(I used to, but sold their 1976-1998 garbage)
         PS...it's telling that their lowest charting studio album of new material ever is...Beggar's Banquet which peaked at #5 on 1/11/69. Their best record chartest lowest!. All those turds like Undercover(#4, 12/10/83) or Dirty Work( # 4, 5/3/86) or Bridges To Babylon(#3 10/18/97) charted higher.

[Sardondi]

Give that man a cigar. YES! Mick Taylor has never gotten the recognition he deserves. But then I guess it was just some kind of coincidence that the Mick/Keef mojo made a change in the Stones' sound so that it beefed/rocked/crunched up at the exact time when Taylor came on board, and magically the Mick/Keef Express changed that sound and went toward a softer, swishier, poppier style at precisely the time Taylor left, another casualty of Richards' hellish influence. (I remember as the height of rockstar decadence Richards' dry-out trip to the Switzerland clinic where he was supposedly detoxed by having multiple blood transfusions until all the "addicted" blood was "washed out." Jesus.)

I put Taylor's relegation to the memory hole down to jealousy by the band's factoti, who protect the Stones' myth at all costs. IMO Richards has been just a figurehead for almost 40 years, offering nothing but image and ticket sales. He's vital to the band's mystique however, and he is a marketing necessity. And marketing is all the Stones have had at least since the 80's. As soon as Richards strokes out or dies, the Stones will finally, thank Christ, be done. Maybe, at long last, Jagger will finally sit his bony ass down. Or maybe he will get to do the gay cabaret which the rock and roll posing has had to substitute for all these years. Have some dignity, man - you're 70 fucking years old!

And I too own nothing of theirs after Exile other than a couple of Hot Rocks-style compilations.

[Eddie Coyle]

I put Taylor's relegation to the memory hole down to jealousy by the band's factoti, who protect the Stones' myth at all costs. IMO Richards has been just a figurehead for almost 40 years, offering nothing but image and ticket sales. He's vital to the band's mystique however, and he is a marketing necessity. And marketing is all the Stones have had at least since the 80's. As soon as Richards strokes out or dies, the Stones will finally, thank Christ, be done. Maybe, at long last, Jagger will finally sit his bony ass down. Or maybe he will get to do the gay cabaret which the rock and roll posing has had to substitute for all these years. Have some dignity, man - you're 70 fucking years old!

And I too own nothing of theirs after Exile other than a couple of Hot Rocks-style compilations.

           You nailed it. The Keith cult makes the People's Temple look fiercely independent. His inelegantly wasted persona is a caricature verging on parody, yet embraced by legions of fans, who are unable to see/discern that Keith's condition is why the Stones have been so bad for so long.

           The Taylor "did he jump or was he pushed" debate doesn't even exist anymore thanks to Ms Jann Wenner and company. Taylor and his wife at the time have been portrayed as impetuous and impatient and selfish. I've read enough over the years to determine that Taylor realized he was getting screwed(getting mere sum payments but not writing credits for his unacknowledged conributions) and when his song "Time Waits For No One" got a Jagger/Richards credit without Taylor, the decision was made. Taylor just had to look at how Ian Stewart and Brian Jones were treated to see how his path was going to continue with them.

         What's interesting and completely forgotten is that Jagger was seriously considering dumping Keith circa 73/74 due to his worsening addiction/absence and elevating Taylor to his sidekick....but Rupert Loewenstein advised Jagger to stick with Keith, primarily due to legacy/future income, because Loewenstein was of the belief(and probably correct) that Keith was the vestige to "blue collar"/hard rock fans and that Jagger needed a "tough" counterpart for the Stones to continue. I get the feeling that Taylor split because he thought he'd possibly succeed Richards, and once it became clear that Keith would be there for the long haul, it was time to go.

          That Mick and Keith solo albums fail miserably is a testament to "brands" and how marketing of that brand is so important for survival.

[Sardondi]

... Ms Jann Wenner.....

Yawn Wenner - what a contemptible pricklet. Obviously viciously sodomized throughout his tenure at his boy's school, since he has spent a lifetime bullying everyone within his tiny reach.

[Eddie Coyle]

Yawn Wenner - what a contemptible pricklet. Obviously viciously sodomized throughout his tenure at his boy's school, since he has spent a lifetime bullying everyone within his tiny reach.

          Considering his preferences, that was probably the highlight of those years. Another Velvet Mafia member who has way too much influence beyond the realms of showbiz, it's trematoda like he and David Geffen that are the jizz swallowing equivalent of petrodollars or narcocash.