Art Bell

[UnscreenedCaller]

I happily left this course as I did Catholicism and feel that I'm a better person for it. I do like Buddhism as it is more compatible with science. I don't know if there is anything for us after this physical life, but I'm thinking that we'd all be better off ridding ourselves of beliefs that keep us bound to ego and power and materialism. Maybe we'd have a chance to create a more liveable world for everyone.

Hi pye! Hope the vacation isn't going to be an extended on, 'cos you'd be missed.

I find myself a lot happier free from the Catholicism of my youth and adulthood, too. It's interesting that Joseph Campbell, an ex-Catholic himself, chose Buddhism after studying the mythologies of the world for a lifetime. You nailed it: being bound to ego, power and materialism keeps us enslaved and unhappy.

[Lilith]

being bound to ego, power and materialism keeps us enslaved and unhappy.

I'll third that!

[jazmunda]

Où étiez-vous? 

Opio. Pouvez-vous me diriger vers le plus proche des toilettes?

[Gemstone]

This stuff is really fascinating. I don't think we should be too put off by evidence being anecdotal. Everything is anecdotal to us unless we've had direct experience, and that accounts for a huge portion of most people's (putatively justified) beliefs.

I have experienced both an OBE and an incredible NDE.  I was NOT dreaming nor having a lucid dream.  These spontaneous experiences forever changed me and my view of consciousness.  There are no words to describe the beauty of what I saw or the feeling of unconditional love I felt.  I consider these experiences a monumental gift and have treasured these memories since 1987.

The beauty of experiencing these extraordinary events is truly knowing you cannot describe, convince, cajole, shame or judge another person's point of view as they must experience this for themselves.  It is not my place.  I am simply very grateful for these gifts I experienced.

[UnscreenedCaller]

Opio. Pouvez-vous me diriger vers le plus proche des toilettes?

[FightTheFuture]

: being bound to ego, power and materialism keeps us enslaved and unhappy.

That`s a veritable billboard for Christianity!

Couldn`t have said it any better.

[SciFiAuthor]

Look, I'm sure we have all faced tough times in the past but that sort of thing just masks the pain, it doesn't actually help. If you delude and drug yourself with something like religion because reality is biting too hard then you are denying yourself the chance to actively change your situation.

Brig's right in that I am suggesting that it's a crutch. But where we disagree is in masking the pain. It's like going to a funeral and telling the little old religious widow that her dead husband simply ceased to exist and isn't in heaven. You're just not doing her any good by doing that, you're just screwing with her worldview.

Actively change your situation to what? There is no point to existence Sred. You are an electro-chemical reaction confined in a vile universe that functions on the basic rules of life being to murder other living things and fornicate. All we really have is the human pursuit of happiness in this world and if religious crutches accomplish that, then I don't begrudge anyone for pursuing them. I just don't want it to be imposed on me because it simply doesn't yield any happiness for me. Now a nice joint works, but of course there are those out there imposing their whims on society regarding that.

[SciFiAuthor]

Interesting. Are there people trying to impose their ideas on you? Who are they, and in what prison are they now serving a lengthy sentence?

Political correctness, ISIS, pot-prohibitionists, tons of people out there trying to impose their ideas on others through the use of coercion. Religion has a really bad history on that one, almost all of them have histories of coercion against people. Even militant atheism has a history with the communists. I just say live and let live.

[chefist]

, but of course there are those out there imposing their whims on society regarding that.

The ego needs to be right...affirmation of its invulnerability (a delusion of immortality and survival)...it interprets disagreement as an attack, as a life/death threat...that is why some people will kill even over the most simple and inane of disagreements...

[Yorkshire pud]

Perhaps you should exercise a bit more discretion in picking your friends.

My friend was a guest of the mother (her friend) I was invited along...Neither of us anticipated what befell us...

[pyewacket]

Hi pye! Hope the vacation isn't going to be an extended on, 'cos you'd be missed.

I find myself a lot happier free from the Catholicism of my youth and adulthood, too. It's interesting that Joseph Campbell, an ex-Catholic himself, chose Buddhism after studying the mythologies of the world for a lifetime. You nailed it: being bound to ego, power and materialism keeps us enslaved and unhappy.

Aww- thank you UC- you're sweet to say so.  There was too much drama going on here lately.

I found my way to Buddhism via Alan Watts (ex Anglican priest) and Fr. Anthony de Mello ( Indian Jesuit priest).

It feels much better to simplify one's life- you don't realize it until you start dropping some of the baggage you've gathered over the years.

[GeorgieForPresident2216]

<snip>

I totally agree with this statement. When I was active on this "path" I met all sorts and the ones most obsessed with power were the most egotistic and the ones most likely to use you or harm you to get themselves further ahead in this delusion. No different than political and corporate types clawing their way to the top.

I happily left this course as I did Catholicism and feel that I'm a better person for it. I do like Buddhism as it is more compatible with science. I don't know if there is anything for us after this physical life, but I'm thinking that we'd all be better off ridding ourselves of beliefs that keep us bound to ego and power and materialism. Maybe we'd have a chance to create a more liveable world for everyone.

I would have to say that was one of the reasons for the rise of Catholicism, specifically.  In a horribly oppressive society, the average person could join the clergy and hope to live the life of a nobleman or king. 

I think the other main reason for the rise and spread of Catholicism was simply that the Roman Empire had become too large to control adequately with policing and manpower.  Better to have the widespread populace celebrate pacifism and fear damnation for any wrongdoings than having to send an army running around Europe trying to quell uprisings or having to employ large segments of the population in policing petty crimes and preventing riots.

Now, with the impending failure of Christianity as a serious force in people's lives, we see the rise of the police state (as we did in Communist Russia), Big Brother's indiscriminate use of technology for eavesdropping, and the spread of paranormal belief systems in an attempt to maintain control.

So, I would generally agree with the above, but I do think modern societies would not have existed without organized religion.

[GeorgieForPresident2216]

I heard Art Bell quit Coast. Too soon?

Welcome back Jaz.

And may I say, perfect timing.

[K_Dubb]

If literature is any indication, some huge percentage of human thought over the past five thousand years has been devoted to religion and philosophy and stuff beyond the material.  We're programmed to think that way.  Now scientific rationalism comes along and wants to basically lobotomize the human mind.  It's a poor substitute and it's not going to work.

Dragging this back 'round to Art, I think much of what Art covers is modem mythology.  Aliens are our gods, or variously our ancestors, Bigfoot is a troll in the woods, pseudoscience is our alchemy.  I can't really put it coherently.  I don't believe any of it, really, but t's fun to think about because it scratches the same mental itch, and I don't think those old Greeks were that literal with their mythology either.  I think we're all here because we find that stuff fun, and fighting about whether its real or not is kind of beside the point.

[GeorgieForPresident2216]

I wrote this long and rambling response last night when I was half asleep but didn't post it.  If you feel like reading it knock yourselves out  .

I haven't been feeling very cerebral lately, and I can't articulate as well or as intellectually as those who have been posting.  However, I have long had some simple thoughts on the subject which I think are relevant.

There are two types of truth, and neither is mutually exclusive.  Some folks focus on seeking the first type of truth, while others devote themselves to the second.

The first truth we seek is the truth about our reality.  The one reality so far as we know; otherwise known as the Universe.  We call this scientific truth or materialism.  At its heart it is physics.  This is the truth about how everything in our Universe works and how it must work.  The rules are pretty simple:  four fundamental forces; conservation of momentum and energy; Newton's second law that mechanical force is equal to the rate change of momentum; the creation of entropy in any real process; four dimensions; and a handful of universal constants.  For human scale processes and structures, this pretty much describes everything that ever happens.  These rules appear to have no exceptions, for if they did have exceptions the Sun would collapse or explode, your car wouldn't start reliably, and the cells in your body would die.

The second truth we seek is the truth about the greater reality.  That is, the Universe that surrounds and gives life to this one, if it exists at all.  For instance, let's say I want to run from my house to the road.  In my reality I have to expend energy and pass over every single foot of the concrete in sequence.  In the greater reality, the same process may merely involve moving my ones and zeroes around in a stick of ram (imagine playing an MMORPG -- the character's universe vs yours).  We call truth about this greater reality spiritualism or mysticism.

The beauty and trouble with the greater reality is that it could be anything you want it to be.  It could be the Christian vision of heaven, or it could be a place where the Earth is actually flat and is held up by four elephants on the back of a turtle (and we only perceive it as an oblate spheroid).   Scientific truth probably cannot reveal anything about this greater universe because we are limited to the tools of our own reality.  A character in a role playing game cannot use her virtual telescope to look out of the monitor at you.

Some claim they have access to the greater reality by means of prophets, or miracles, or visions, or some form of extra-sensory perception.  I have no right to dismiss that. 

Nonetheless, personally I can't swallow the idea that we can directly interact with this greater reality because we have not discovered any organs or neural nuclei that would allow us to do this.  The brain is a very mechanical, cause-and-effect structure.  It is essentially divided into three types of tasks:  processing of sensory input, formulating a response, and issuing the response.  As of yet we have discovered no sensory organs for receiving information from the aether, and no neural nuclei for processing that information.  Of the four lobe pairs in our cortex, we have one more-or-less devoted to processing visual input.  I would think extra-sensory input would deserve no less.

Personally I live according to the scientific truth.  Well, we all do really.  If we did not, regardless of what the greater reality may be like, we might end up walking off a cliff because we decided we lived in a two-dimensional hologram.  I came to all this after someone once asked me how I knew I was alive.  I thought about it.  My solution was I don't know but it's a belief that has always worked for me.  There may be a greater reality where I'm really not alive.  Nevertheless in this reality I think, therefore I am.

The scientific truth allows our kind to create airplanes, microwave ovens, and skyscrapers, and allows the agricultural, distribution, and waste management practices that can sustain 7.3 billion souls rather than 0.3 billion.  That doesn't mean I don't have an interest in finding out about the greater reality.  I guess that is what Art Bell is all about.

[zeebo]

It's a personal preference, that's all, not something so grandiloquent as 'your own truth'. I don't know what point you are trying to make here. ...

I was trying to illustrate, perhaps clumsily, that subjective experience is not necessarily delusion, just because you can't externally prove it to others. 

[SaucyRossy]

Just a bit of 2010 humour. 

Jaz!!!!! You've been missed!

[phrodo]

I wrote this long and rambling response last night when I was half asleep but didn't post it.  If you feel like reading it knock yourselves out  .

I like it and like how you tie it into the topic of ART BELL at the end. This thread has gone WAY off the rails. Thanks Jaz for a humorous attempt to re-rail it.  You really should post here more often. 

[RoseGirl]

You know...it has always been my experience that if someone doesn't respect you, they are never going to. Oh well, what can ya do, eh? Just didn't realize there was a party line that needed to be towed in this forum. I've never been very good at that sort of thing...so, have fun kids, carry on. Write if you get work.

[pyewacket]

I agree- this thread does veered off topic from time to time. That is to expected when discussing the topics that Art talks about on his show.

Have any of you changed your mind about a guest/topic from Art's old shows? I remember the Harlot show from years ago and I was creeped out by it. I listened to it recently and found it laughable- she sounded like an Evangelical employing the same tactics used in their hell houses on Halloween. I used to think she was a disturbed person; now I think she's a religious person acting out her interpretation of an evil woman, "Harlot" ( biblical reference?)   

www.religioustolerance.org/hallo_he.htm

[jazmunda]

Jaz!!!!! You've been missed!

I missed BellGab! I almost don't recognize the place.

[jazmunda]

I like it and like how you tie it into the topic of ART BELL at the end. This thread has gone WAY off the rails. Thanks Jaz for a humorous attempt to re-rail it.  You really should post here more often. 

This is BellGab and the Art Bell thread. It has a mind of its own and cannot be tamed. Many have tried. Many have failed.

[UnscreenedCaller]

I agree- this thread does veered off topic from time to time. That is to expected when discussing the topics that Art talks about on his show.

Have any of you changed your mind about a guest/topic from Art's old shows? I remember the Harlot show from years ago and I was creeped out by it. I listened to it recently and found it laughable- she sounded like an Evangelical employing the same tactics used in their hell houses on Halloween. I used to think she was a disturbed person; now I think she's a religious person acting out her interpretation of an evil woman, "Harlot" ( biblical reference?)   

www.religioustolerance.org/hallo_he.htm

She still creeps me out a bit but that's a good point about sounding like an evangelical trying to sound like an evil woman.

Ed Dames hasn't stood the test of time, but I would give anything to hear Art interview Ingo Swann one last time, which sadly, won't happen.

[SciFiAuthor]

I missed BellGab! I almost don't recognize the place.

Someone's been messing around with the drapes again. Did you listen to Art while you were away? Been some pretty solid shows lately.

[chinaclipper]

Someone's been messing around with the drapes again. Did you listen to Art while you were away? Been some pretty solid shows lately.

soo many Aussies calling in Jaz.  You will have to reassert your authority/station!!

[jazmunda]

Someone's been messing around with the drapes again. Did you listen to Art while you were away? Been some pretty solid shows lately.

I haven't been listening live due to the morning timeslot in Europe but I have been listening to select shows and will eventually catch up. Art is at the top of his game. These are great times. We are very blessed. Praise MV. Click on an Ad. 

[jazmunda]

soo many Aussies calling in Jaz.  You will have to reassert your authority/station!!

There is only one Aussie that counts. Art will never forget his first.

[Faustina]

NOTE TO ART:  JC's Facebook page has been updated!!!!

"This is petunia pringle (ednas more loyal younger sister)
I is posting up for JC who has taken ILL ,since the nite that Art Bell had on that Satanist witch he has fallen into a deep sickness as the woman demon spirit has attacked his self.
I have broken the rules and am just posting so you all know who to blame for this.
JC is in a deep coma and has not come out his camper in days.
Pray for your General.
-ppp"

https://www.facebook.com/JCWEBSTERTHE3RD?fref=ts

[SciFiAuthor]

I haven't been listening live due to the morning timeslot in Europe but I have been listening to select shows and will eventually catch up. Art is at the top of his game. These are great times. We are very blessed. Praise MV. Click on an Ad.

So true, this is the best incarnation of Art's show yet. Art sounds like he's having a blast with it too. I even like Hoagland. I can't say that I've ever heard radio quite like Richard's show.

[Faustina]

I haven't been listening live due to the morning timeslot in Europe but I have been listening to select shows and will eventually catch up. Art is at the top of his game. These are great times. We are very blessed. Praise MV. Click on an Ad.

Art's interview on Friday of Andy Basiago was great!  Radio Gold.