perfect place to discuss this too

[MV/Liberace!]

       Hello,

I've thought about starting a formal thread on the subject.  I certainly would be interested in hear other points of view on 9-11.  When I posted that message though I almost immediately got 2 negative points.  Feelings run strong with this one.  I'll give it some thought and see what I can come up with.

well, don't be intimidated by the negative comments.  you'll get them, of course, but it's to be expected.  i've found that with regard to most prominent "conspiracy" theories (conspiracy in the somewhat incorrect use of the word, as evb pointed out), the theorists are the most vocal and pound their fists the loudest.

do i believe george bush knew 911 was going to happen before it happened and allowed it anyway?  no.

do i believe there were explosives planted in the WTC?  no.

do i believe a missile struck the pentagon rather than a plane?  heh, no.

do i believe the planes that crashed into the WTC had missiles or bombs strapped to the belly?  no.

do i believe the planes that crashed into the WTC were remote controlled and were actually empty?  no.

do i believe the passengers on the planes that crashed that day were taken off of the planes, rounded up, and killed?  after all, that's what you'd have to believe in order to accept most of this horse shit.  almost forgot.... my answer?  no.

do i believe we were arrogant and sloppy in our false sense of security which facilitated an environment in which such an attack could succeed?  absolutely.

i think a lot of the people who purport that we did it to ourselves are just frightened people.  they are in disbelief that we, the world's lone superpower (if you believe that), could be hit in such a profound way.  it's frightening to accept that explanation.  they have a psychological need to believe that the only way we could suffer such an attack would be by self-infliction.  it's rather comforting to believe you are invulnerable.

additionally, i believe a VAST number of the people who feel this way are people who have hated george bush's guts since the moment he accepted al gore's concession.

somebody PLEASE tell me, by the way, how in the hell the passengers on the planes were able to call their families and tell them what was happening AS it was happening?  was that voice replication technology?  where did those people go?  and don't tell me that a phone call can't be placed from 38,000 feet because i already know that.  they were flying well within cell communication altitude at the time.  and where did those people go?  where were they rounded up and executed in order to shut them up so that the remote control planes could finish the job?  and why bother with remote control planes?  oh, yeah, that's right.  there were no terrorists.  they have all been flown back to their homelands to celebrate their victory over the usa with their friends and family.  please.

the plane that crashed in PA was shot down, and that's the open door for the rest of your theories?  firstly, prove that it was shot down.  thus far, no theorist has done so.  also, so what if it WAS shot down!  don't you think that might have been a proper course of action with everything else taking place that day?  if it was shot down and the government hasn't publicly admitted it, i'm not too terribly bothered by that.  sorry, but i'm not.  and by the way... if that ever happens again in this country, you can bet your ASS that the plane(s) will be shot down WAAAAAAAY before it escalates to this degree.

steel melts at this temperature, that temperature, blah blah blah... suddenly everybody is an expert on metallurgy because they saw a couple dvds.  way to go.  did anyone take time to consider the temperature at which it weakens?  anybody?  umm... anyone?

let the hate mail begin.

[EvB]

well, don't be intimidated by the negative comments.  you'll get them, of course, but it's to be expected. 

do i believe we were arrogant and sloppy in our false sense of security which facilitated an environment in which such an attack could succeed?  absolutely.

let the hate mail begin.

No hate mail here!

I agree with you.  As for 9/11 - I DO think that were we not so arrogant - intelligence could have tipped us off - but that's  only conjecture. 

And - as for the plane that came down over some place in PA - I am confused as to how else the PR on that could have been handled.  I think the plane was shot down - because the people on it were dead in any case - and - awful as it was - it was the best case scenario.  So - could/should have the powers the be been honest about that from the start - I suppose that would have only cased more trouble - maybe - but  it would be nice if we were more worthy of faith from the "big guys"

[MV/Liberace!]

No hate mail here!

I agree with you.  As for 9/11 - I DO think that were we not so arrogant - intelligence could have tipped us off - but that's  only conjecture. 

And - as for the plane that came down over some place in PA - I am confused as to how else the PR on that could have been handled.  I think the plane was shot down - because the people on it were dead in any case - and - awful as it was - it was the best case scenario.  So - could/should have the powers the be been honest about that from the start - I suppose that would have only cased more trouble - maybe - but  it would be nice if we were more worthy of faith from the "big guys"

i saw your post after adding a bunch of additional condescension to my post.