Sarah Palin Knocks it Out of the Park

[albrecht]

Good luck with that, civil rights and all.

If just the procedure of an abortion you are probably right. But add the cost of travel for many and the days away from work. And other costs and you have enough for a nice Ruger.

Look, I am all for some pretty dramatic strategies to stop so many pregnancies. Unfortunately, unless you want China, the options are limited.

Yeah, travel etc. Likely more though from what I've seen most of the facilities are in urban, poor, minority areas. Not far to travel. And the rich folks with "problems" aren't going to those anyway and don't mind the travel or expense to take care of wayward daughter's embarrassment.

No, I'm with you. I've seen too much abuses of the system in the past. (It used to be a joke how easy it was for a parent (or even a husband) to "get rid of" of "problem" in his family, at least temporarily.) There need to be legal safeguards and I tend to lean towards the individual vs society when it comes down to civil rights. But clearly we've gone too far when it comes to allowing the "freedom" of a mentally deranged individual to harm others. For their sake also, of course. But there are some fine lines and one needs to be careful. Already terms like "crazy" "mentally ill" are bandied about for everything from political differences, lifestyle "choices", religious differences, etc. And psychiatry, and medicine, has a sordid history of abuse for various reasons.

And the "science" of eugenics is not proven out, at least in more extreme form. (Look at how well inbreeding went for some royal, high-society types.) Though, in average, some correlations can be found with regard to income, education level, race, etc but there are always outliers and one never know what the individual will become.

I would think, though, a temporary "fix" with modern medicine, maybe, could be acceptable by society? I can't understand the logic that a condom (or even an IUD or chemical) is "just as bad," or "more of a civil right violation," than an abortion? Maybe just add saltpeter in the water supply for some schools and neighborhoods?
ps: PP website has this message:
'We apologize, but our site is not available because of an extremist attack.

200,000 people a day are now being blocked from information and care by this attack."
I call bs on this but it is good marketing after the organ sale stuff.

[Yorkshire pud]

Yet, expecting self-obsessed assholes to refrain from GETTING pregnant, or DOING the impregnating, is such an absurd concept! Better that all of society should PAY THE COST for the irresponsible behavior of ass-licks, or condone TAX PAYER FUNDED MASS MURDER OF CHILDREN, so that The Pious and all knowing, always right, Dr. Onan can achieve social justice for some wrong he's fabricated out of thin air...

It's noble you're concerned for the poor hard pressed tax payer; no doubt you'll be advocating the restriction of firearms due to the millions of dollars spent each year on behalf of 'irresponsible' people who spoil it for everyone else? 30000 gun deaths is a lot of money after police, loss of business, hospital and ambulance, trials and any imprisonment is thrown in the mix... You'll no doubt sympathise with the anti gun lobby who resent paying their taxes to deal with gun deaths?

[albrecht]

It's noble you're concerned for the poor hard pressed tax payer; no doubt you'll be advocating the restriction of firearms due to the millions of dollars spent each year on behalf of 'irresponsible' people who spoil it for everyone else? 30000 gun deaths is a lot of money after police, loss of business, hospital and ambulance, trials and any imprisonment is thrown in the mix... You'll no doubt sympathise with the anti gun lobby who resent paying their taxes to deal with gun deaths?

I think, like that supposed tobacco-paid-for study about smoking and the Czech healthcare/pension system, an actuarial study might prove that those people killed by guns (often in places like Chicago) might be a net gain, over all, for society if one considers the tax-payers costs for schooling, EBT cards, Section 8 and other housing, court costs, prison costs, etc. But also because future earnings of those people, if any, are not realized yet and so unknown but the costs of housing, EBT, schools, etc are already, at least partially, realized and known.
ps: it would be far better, of course, to abort those black and poor people and REALLY get society costs down. Sanger would agree, though with modern science couldn't you eugenicists types advocate chemical castration or implantable chemical tubal ligation etc? Surgery seems too $. (Or is it the organs from the dead babies that is the goal?)

[paladin1991]

Or by responsible people that do not want another child.

Responsible.  But obviously not smart enough to wear a condom.  Stupid MF's.  So a child dies because these idiots are not smart enough to wear a condom and responsible enough to get her vacuumed out. 

Perhaps we ought to make it a 2fer.  Abort a child, well in order to preserve the gene pool fm further contamination, we require one of the parents to go first.  It shouldn't hurt much.  It's just this big old needle jammed into the base of your skull......

[Dr.Pepper]

See attached pic. 'Nuff said.

Isn't abortions only about 6% of the total work Planned Parenthood does? 

Also, what would the USA do with 100,000 additional fatherless black babies born to unwed, unemployed mothers each year?

Oh I know.  Those babies should get all maverick-y and pull themselves up by their own boot straps!  Since we all know Palin's stance on derp socialism.

Yeah, she really knocked it out of the park.  Good call.  Keep posting simpleton pictures.  You must have a book shelf full of picture books for your reading material.

[Dr.Pepper]

Responsible.  But obviously not smart enough to wear a condom.  Stupid MF's.  So a child dies because these idiots are not smart enough to wear a condom and responsible enough to get her vacuumed out. 

Perhaps we ought to make it a 2fer.  Abort a child, well in order to preserve the gene pool fm further contamination, we require one of the parents to go first.  It shouldn't hurt much.  It's just this big old needle jammed into the base of your skull......

I assume then you must be for increased comprehensive economic entitlements for single unwed mothers.

[Dr.Pepper]

Yet, expecting self-obsessed assholes to refrain from GETTING pregnant, or DOING the impregnating, is such an absurd concept! Better that all of society should PAY THE COST for the irresponsible behavior of ass-licks, or condone TAX PAYER FUNDED MASS MURDER OF CHILDREN, so that The Pious and all knowing, always right, Dr. Onan can achieve social justice for some wrong he's fabricated out of thin air...

When I read rants like these, it sounds like a guy angry he can't get laid all that often, masking his unattractiveness to females with a self-righteous stance of responsibility.

[paladin1991]

I assume then you must be for increased comprehensive economic entitlements for single unwed mothers.

You would be assuming incorrectly.  I am for increased accountability.  Keep it in your pants and keep your legs crossed.  Or...you are gonna have kids.  Stop going to school and get a PT job at Micky D's for the rest of your life.  Or you can go for the big money and work at the Platinum elephant.  Lot's of men willing to support single moms one dollar at a time.

[paladin1991]

When I read rants like these, it sounds like a guy angry he can't get laid all that often, masking his unattractiveness to females with a self-righteous stance of responsibility.

Oh, welcome aboard, new guy.  Asking that ppl be accountable for their actions....you're right.  That obviously makes a person a _______.  go ahead, fill in the blank, doc.

[Dr.Pepper]

Oh, welcome aboard, new guy.  Asking that ppl be accountable for their actions....you're right.  That obviously makes a person a _______.  go ahead, fill in the blank, doc.

Explain how you hold someone accountable after a baby is born?  Any punitive action you take only harms the child, you so thoroughly care about.

Do something more than spout simple Palinesque platitudes and actually formulate a plan or ideas.

[onan]

There seems to be quite a bit of confusion.

People getting abortions are making a choice that will have less effect on your pocketbooks than some choosing to continue a pregnancy.

There are roughly 210 million pregnancies a year and 1.2 million abortions.
Even the most effective contraceptive measure, sterilization, has a 0.9 to 0.15 percentage failure rate. The pill 9% failure rate. The diaphragm 12% failure rate.

Generally speaking lower income (up to 150% of poverty rate) use birth control about 89% income levels up to 300% above the poverty line are at 92%.

Those aren't the numbers of irresponsible people. Are there irresponsible people? of course. but it isn't the majority. And certainly not the picture Sarah Palin's ghost writer suggests.

[albrecht]

There seems to be quite a bit of confusion.

People getting abortions are making a choice that will have less effect on your pocketbooks than some choosing to continue a pregnancy.

There are roughly 210 million pregnancies a year and 1.2 million abortions.
Even the most effective contraceptive measure, sterilization, has a 0.9 to 0.15 percentage failure rate. The pill 9% failure rate. The diaphragm 12% failure rate.

Generally speaking lower income (up to 150% of poverty rate) use birth control about 89% income levels up to 300% above the poverty line are at 92%.

Those aren't the numbers of irresponsible people. Are there irresponsible people? of course. but it isn't the majority. And certainly not the picture Sarah Palin's ghost writer suggests.

Taking your logic of cost-savings over lives why not have "post-birth abortions" for the blacks, Latinos, illegals, retarded, mentally ill, or poor people. Sure we can try Sanger's methods for eliminating the undesirables in society but abortion and even contraception that takes at minimum a generation to work and many of them will refuse, not comply, and contraceptives not 100% effective. Maybe we could just put special showers in section 8, public housing, prisons, and immigrant detention centers? I hear that Detia-Degesch currently still makes it.

[onan]

Taking your logic of cost-savings over lives why not have "post-birth abortions" for the blacks, Latinos, illegals, retarded, mentally ill, or poor people. Sure we can try Sanger's methods for eliminating the undesirables in society but abortion and even contraception that takes at minimum a generation to work and many of them will refuse, not comply, and contraceptives not 100% effective. Maybe we could just put special showers in section 8, public housing, prisons, and immigrant detention centers? I hear that Detia-Degesch currently still makes it.

Look I'm not the one crying about social costs, that is your side of the fence.

[Quick Karl]

Responsible.  But obviously not smart enough to wear a condom.  Stupid MF's.  So a child dies because these idiots are not smart enough to wear a condom and responsible enough to get her vacuumed out. 

Perhaps we ought to make it a 2fer.  Abort a child, well in order to preserve the gene pool fm further contamination, we require one of the parents to go first.  It shouldn't hurt much.  It's just this big old needle jammed into the base of your skull......

Why should anyone wear a condom when YOU can just shut the fuck up and PAY MY BILL, mother-fucker...

[paladin1991]

Explain how you hold someone accountable after a baby is born?  Any punitive action you take only harms the child, you so thoroughly care about.

Do something more than spout simple Palinesque platitudes and actually formulate a plan or ideas.

I guess that you think it's okay to be sexually active, not use a condom, get knocked up and then vacuumed out.  I don't know what's in your head, I'm guessing here.

It's not punitive action, not giving tax money to support a screw up.  It's a sound fiscal action to preserve the tax monies of the ppl.  By paying out welfare for all these kids, through tax monies, it's punitive towards me and the well being of the entire state.

Why should my tax money go to support your illegitimate child, for 18 years?  You screwed up, got knocked up and expect me to house and feed not only your child, but you and any other babies you might pop out.  OR, we could go cheap, use fewer of my tax dollars to have you vacuumed out, good as new. 

Where is the win in either of those scenarios for me?

[albrecht]

I guess that you think it's okay to be sexually active, not use a condom, get knocked up and then vacuumed out.  I don't know what's in your head, I'm guessing here.

It's not punitive action, not giving tax money to support a screw up.  It's a sound fiscal action to preserve the tax monies of the ppl.  By paying out welfare for all these kids, through tax monies, it's punitive towards me and the well being of the entire state.

Why should my tax money go to support your illegitimate child, for 18 years?  You screwed up, got knocked up and expect me to house and feed not only your child, but you and any other babies you might pop out.  OR, we could go cheap, use fewer of my tax dollars to have you vacuumed out, good as new. 

Where is the win in either of those scenarios for me?

I think we should send the bastards to Mexico, Guatemala, Honduras, etc and let those governments pay for their housing, education, legal aide, healthcare, etc as we do for there illegal alien children (and often mothers and adults.) And for the single-moms who keep spitting on babies without the ability or desire to care for them: sterilization (maybe give them an extra EBT card so it is with consent) and labor to pay off whatever costs already incurred by the tax-payers (their EBT cards, housing subsidies, EITC, etc.)

[paladin1991]

Look I'm not the one crying about social costs, that is your side of the fence.

Onan, are you happy to pay for abortions?  For paying for 18 years of support for the child of a careless mother/father?  I know I'm not.

You put up the statistics for failure.  But how do they apply against the absolute numbers of 1.2 million homicides, I mean, abortions?  Are the majority of abortions due to failure of contraceptive measures or the failure of the meatbags who, quite literally, fuck themselves?

Is there another figure that tells us how many abortions are due to the failure of contraceptives?  Not shooting at you, bro, I'm just real curious about the answer to this.  I think that you are one of the most stable personalities on the forum, usually.  So I ask.
I can't ask myself a question like that, because I'm batshit crazy until breakfast and a knee jerk reactionary after I've had my morning coffee.

[paladin1991]

Why should anyone wear a condom when YOU can just shut the fuck up and PAY MY BILL, mother-fucker...

OH, excuse me for being a silly bitch.

[Dr.Pepper]

I guess that you think it's okay to be sexually active, not use a condom, get knocked up and then vacuumed out.  I don't know what's in your head, I'm guessing here.

It's not punitive action, not giving tax money to support a screw up.  It's a sound fiscal action to preserve the tax monies of the ppl.  By paying out welfare for all these kids, through tax monies, it's punitive towards me and the well being of the entire state.

Why should my tax money go to support your illegitimate child, for 18 years?  You screwed up, got knocked up and expect me to house and feed not only your child, but you and any other babies you might pop out.  OR, we could go cheap, use fewer of my tax dollars to have you vacuumed out, good as new. 

Where is the win in either of those scenarios for me?

I personally don't care about abortion.  I think there are already too many humans to begin with.

Secondly, you talk about "sound fiscal action to protect the monies of the ppl", yet social entitlements are literally the least of America's broken financial problems.  The government, the military, wall st, and the banks are your enemy.  Not someone having to use food stamps to survive.  I know that is hard to understand, but if you actually looked around, the people who are fucking you the most, when it comes time to look at where your taxes are going, it's going to the four entities I listed.

[onan]

Onan, are you happy to pay for abortions?  For paying for 18 years of support for the child of a careless mother/father?  I know I'm not.

You put up the statistics for failure.  But how do they apply against the absolute numbers of 1.2 million homicides, I mean, abortions?  Are the majority of abortions due to failure of contraceptive measures or the failure of the meatbags who, quite literally, fuck themselves?

Is there another figure that tells us how many abortions are due to the failure of contraceptives?  Not shooting at you, bro, I'm just real curious about the answer to this.  I think that you are one of the most stable personalities on the forum, usually.  So I ask.
I can't ask myself a question like that, because I'm batshit crazy until breakfast and a knee jerk reactionary after I've had my morning coffee.

Most abortions are paid for by the patient.

I don't know the numbers for what you ask. It is such a complicated issue. The situation of an eighteen year old versus a 35 year old is obviously huge. What information one has and how well they can use it depends to a large degree on maturity and intelligence. All I can tell you from first hand knowledge is that both age groups and those in between seek abortions.

A fact to consider is that many that seek abortions are not a financial drain on anyone.

Failure of birth control is not just one thing breaking in the chain of events. It could be a defective condom. It could be an inappropriate dosage and/or timing of a birth control pill. It could be that a menstrual cycle become irregular or more than one egg develops around the same time. It could be a drunken night of hot passion. And many other malfunctions may present themselves. What I have never heard is, " I am going to get pregnant just to get an abortion. Not that I doubt some think it an easy fallback position. However they won't think the same thing after the procedure.

I don't have any other stats than I posted. I could do more reading, but I have two pieces of furniture to assemble before my wife gets home.

[paladin1991]

I personally don't care about abortion.  I think there are already too many humans to begin with.

Secondly, you talk about "sound fiscal action to protect the monies of the ppl", yet social entitlements are literally the least of America's broken financial problems.  The government, the military, wall st, and the banks are your enemy.  Not someone having to use food stamps to survive.  I know that is hard to understand, but if you actually looked around, the people who are fucking you the most, when it comes time to look at where your taxes are going, it's going to the four entities I listed.

Oh, I know who the enemy is.  This thread seems to be abortion and Palin.  I think that's the topic I will stick to in this thread.

Your profile says your new here.  Stick around.  Some of these threads can be pretty intense.  Wait til the name calling starts.  Then it's a barrel of monkeys.

[paladin1991]

Most abortions are paid for by the patient.

I don't know the numbers for what you ask. It is such a complicated issue. The situation of an eighteen year old versus a 35 year old is obviously huge. What information one has and how well they can use it depends to a large degree on maturity and intelligence. All I can tell you from first hand knowledge is that both age groups and those in between seek abortions.

A fact to consider is that many that seek abortions are not a financial drain on anyone.

Failure of birth control is not just one thing breaking in the chain of events. It could be a defective condom. It could be an inappropriate dosage and/or timing of a birth control pill. It could be that a menstrual cycle become irregular or more than one egg develops around the same time. It could be a drunken night of hot passion. And many other malfunctions may present themselves. What I have never heard is, " I am going to get pregnant just to get an abortion. Not that I doubt some think it an easy fallback position. However they won't think the same thing after the procedure.

I don't have any other stats than I posted. I could do more reading, but I have two pieces of furniture to assemble before my wife gets home.

If your wife is anything like mine.....get that furniture done, son!

[Dr.Pepper]

You put up the statistics for failure.  But how do they apply against the absolute numbers of 1.2 million homicides, I mean, abortions?
Is there another figure that tells us how many abortions are due to the failure of contraceptives?  Not shooting at you, bro, I'm just real curious about the answer to this.  I think that you are one of the most stable personalities on the forum, usually.  So I ask.

Is your anti-abortion stance, faith based?

[Quick Karl]

Is your anti-abortion stance, faith based?

My anti-abortion stance is that it is the murder of unborn children.

[Quick Karl]

OH, excuse me for being a silly bitch.

[qaddisin]

My anti-abortion stance is that it is the murder of unborn children.

But as soon as they're out of the womb, fuck 'em. Amirite?

[albrecht]

But as soon as they're out of the womb, fuck 'em. Amirite?

Using the logic of Sanger and you eugenic folks: why not? Inside, partially out, outside? What's the diff (as the Valley Girls used to say?) The thing I can't understand is that at the same time money is being given to support killing black, poor, ethnic, etc babies being born here, money is being given to support IMPORTING more people of same type and an open-border here?

[Quick Karl]

But as soon as they're out of the womb, fuck 'em. Amirite?

So, by your logic, mass murder is OK because its wrong to expect people not to fuck like wild monkeys, since, after all, we're really no better than the stray dogs in your neighborhood?

How about this -- you get pregnant and want the TAX PAYER to PAY YOUR BILL, then YOU have to WORK THE COST OFF cleaning rest rooms at the airport or other myriad similar duties that will help make society a better place, and reduce the cost of maintenance of civic and public places.

Deal?

Here's a paint brush - shut the fuck up and paint the fence.

[qaddisin]

Using the logic of Sanger and you eugenic folks: why not? Inside, partially out, outside? What's the diff (as the Valley Girls used to say?) The thing I can't understand is that at the same time money is being given to support killing black, poor, ethnic, etc babies being born here, money is being given to support IMPORTING more people of same type and an open-border here?

Because people like you are so good at whining about their money going to support poor people and other "undesirables", but don't bother to take an honest look at where their tax money really goes. Do I like everything the government does? Not by a long shot. But I'd rather my tax money go to feeding and sheltering people than corporate welfare and a bloated defense budget (it's easy to find what your tax dollars are really funding). But I can't embrace your cognitive dissonance of "save the fetuses because it's murder" but then once they're born, you have absolutely no interest in helping to take care of them, because their birthing units should have known better. And don't sit here and cry about the sanctity of life, when you would just as soon see every immigrant burned at the stake because they might be in the country illegally. It's disingenuous.

And I support abortion not because it's about "eugenics" or whatever conspiracy theory you're trying to sell me this week. I support a woman's right to determine what she does with her body. I believe in bodily autonomy. No one can force me to give blood or organs to someone that may need it to survive, even after my death. I believe women have that same right to their bodies in the event of a pregnancy they don't want. Once again, your cognitive dissonance of "the government can't tell me what do to" but "we want to be able to tell people what to do with their bodies" is absolutely fascinating.

[Quick Karl]

...when you would just as soon see every immigrant burned at the stake because they might be in the country illegally. It's disingenuous.

This is what makes liberals, assholes.