20150723 - Nassim Haramein - Live Chat Thread

[NoMoreNoory]

I speak as an absolute non-scientist, but I am in complete agreement, GFP.
I sometimes think that because Einstein appears to suggest that everything is 'relative' and because Heisenberg appears to say that everything is 'uncertain' and quantum theory appears to say that the experimenter is part of the experiment, the door is wide open for new-age hucksters to hitch their wagon to mainstream science.
I called Haramein out at the top of the interview. He's a fraud, IMO, and a scheister is a scheister regardless of whether s/he is being interviewed incompetently by Noory or competently by Art. We invested a lot of time and effort in kicking the crap out of guests like Haramein on Coast: it would be dishonest to give them a pass simply because they're on MITD.

[QuantumMystics]

I'm sorry if some think it makes me a bad person.  I'm really glad everyone enjoyed the show and I didn't want to ruin it, but Nassim Haramein is nothing more than a new age guru who uses science as his palette.  He takes advantage of his European accent to sound like an intellectual, throws in some geometry and voila!  Yes, probably seventy percent of what he says is based on real (lay man's) science but the other 30 percent, the interesting stuff, is unsupported and in fact often contradicts known science. 

For instance, everything we know about singularities says there cannot be black holes at the center of protons.  It doesn't fit with observation or theory.  Of course, we've never seen the sub-structure of a proton so who really knows?  But there's really no basis for Nassim's argument. 

For instance, as discussed earlier quantum entanglement cannot be manipulated to send messages as he says it can. 

For instance, the universal gravitational constant is known very precisely and is measured by every second year physics student, and since we know it so precisely I'm certain we would have noticed if it was affected by rotation as Nassim claims.  But it is only affected by mass and distance from the mass.  Of course Einstein's equations modifies that a little for strong gravitation fields, but even that has been measured very precisely and to the best of my knowledge is not observed to be influenced by rotation. 

For instance, Nassim makes great claims about the EM engine experiments and how it's going to allow us to travel instantly form place to place, but the measured effect was so small it was in the noise of the experiment and the details of the experiment have yet to be released for peer review. 

For instance, Nassim has no peer reviewed work that I am aware of.  That is important.  Peer reviewed work shows that you are able to make logical assumptions, arguments, and evaluations, and lets everybody else check your work for errors and misunderstandings.  It authenticates that you can actually research.  He does make a claim about a peer reviewed paper, but it was just a paper presented at a computing conference which was unrelated to the science of the paper. 

Nancy asked for details of why he was misrepresenting himself.  I didn't say much during the interview because I didn't want to rain on anyone's parade, and I'm only really trained in classical physics so who am I?  Nevertheless, for what it is worth here are some details off the top of my head.

It bothers me because legitimate, honest physicists work and struggle really, really hard for their level of expertise.  The material they must learn is mind-numbingly difficult.  Yet, being honest and accountable, they mostly toil in obscurity and are usurped in the media by some guy trying to take a short cut and not really understanding the real essence of the material.  It would be like a journalist who writes a bunch of sensationalist stories without vetting the facts and becomes famous, while another journalist struggles through their education and works exceedingly hard to track down leads and information, but lives a meager life and never gets noticed.

For what it's worth.

NO scientist maybe 100% right on much of anything, if they insist they maybe, stay away. Humility goes a long way. The drive was not invented by Nassim, the Chinese and Nasa basically maybe fighting over the race to get it done first. My thinking maybe that the Chinese took it public while the Air Force has kept it a secret and already use it in aircraft and spacecraft. The space shuttle was almost like a joke, same with previous space setups. Modulating gravity in principle makes far more sense than trying to push an object through it with propellent. There's so much energy in the vastness of matter, by grabbing and using it one can more or less overcome most if not all travel limitations.  Spinning electro-magnetic fields seems to me a lost and forgotten possibility.


https://youtu.be/J3xLuZNKhlY

Also IMHO we already have weapons that can "discombobulate" objects by turning off the Higgs field instantly....as this fellow describes....

https://youtu.be/Y-vKh_jKX7Q?t=9m

[ZomZom]

Awesome post, GFP!  And thanks for not killing my buzz during the show.   

[Spinner]

I thought that the interview was a great success and I enjoyed. Obviously Nassim is very entertaining (a la RCH). He mixes ideas of modern mainstream science with his own "out-there" ideas. In my humble layperson's opinion, he's wrong on just about everything. Nevertheless, it was a very entertaining discussion, and gives people food for thought. Isn't that what the show is about?

Why are current mainstream scientists constantly surprised by new observations? Things are almost never as they expected. That should tell you something...

Now, if anyone here wants some serious food for thought regarding how the Universe works, I highly recommend the Thunderbolts Project. They have a website where you can read papers and such, but they also have a YouTube channel: 
https://www.youtube.com/user/ThunderboltsProject

I think this is the best alternative to the current paradigm. I hope Art does a show on this topic in the near future.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91PPV3w6-Js

[QuantumMystics]

When I think of the thunderbolts and the cold sun theories it brings to my mind this band's debut from 1990.....
https://youtu.be/YsmvzBYo7Bc

And this video.....
https://youtu.be/J-m4pPGIPZg

A random quote I found from a poster on one of the videos, thought some of you might enjoy.....

because of the light speed, you cannot see exactly the sun how he is, because it is the past light from the sun. The light take few minutes to come to the earth. So the sunlight you see in the sky doesn't exist anymore since few minutes, and it is different when you see it. You will never see the sun in present time, this is how time travel work : the projection of a past time by the light speed to the present, so you must find a scene far away from yours to project in a room by light speed to see it, but you cannot go in, because the past will be the present and your present will be the past, and the time travel will stop. You can see the past if you move by light speed and you can receive a scene of the place you want by the same speed. Ppl on the scene will slow motion, will stop, and when you will end the travel, they will slowly continue to move until normal speed, it will be the present but it is the past you see, a shortly past time, only few minutes in past. Time travel need large space, and you cannot do it for this world because the past is done, so you must find another one far away without moving but with a powerful computer to decode the signal of the time, and translate all to a perfect scene of life you can watch but not live: impossible. To stop the time of a projection from the past, you must do continually forward and backward at the light speed on the same scene, it will stop the scene in real on your projection and if ppl from the scene can see you do these forward and backward in light speed, they will see you disappear. But to project the past of this world (a century), you must go very far away and more fast than the light speed, to catch the past signal goes from earth.

[QuantumMystics]

Anyone waiting on the show tonight, this relates to physics, so here you can kill an hour if you feel like it.....


https://youtu.be/s1UPORMPgqw

or some alien stuff for tonight's show.....


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkd3BVM7b94

[Autistic Star Children]

hey everyone

so happy to be here tonight

[Autistic Star Children]

CONGRATS MV!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh this show happened the day MV's child was born.

Hope all is well MV!

[flimflam384]

Well shucks, a re-run.   

[Autistic Star Children]

yeah nobody seems to want to run with a live thread rerun.

[starrmtn001]

yeah nobody seems to want to run with a live thread rerun.

Some of us are hanging out in the UFO Chat Room.  Come, join us!

[maren]

Some of us are hanging out in the UFO Chat Room.  Come, join us!

Hi, Princess Sister Starr -- I'm going to take this opportunity to see what I missed during the Braap'o'thon last night, then I'm going to bed.  I fear if I joined your party I'd get sucked in and would be kicking myself again in the morning (like I was this morning!)

So have fun, and see you soon!!!!

[Hells Mole]

This was one of my favorite shows he's done so far!  Nice for people who didn't get to hear it the first time around.


Does anyone know what's up with Art?  Is he okay?

[trostol]

This was one of my favorite shows he's done so far!  Nice for people who didn't get to hear it the first time around.


Does anyone know what's up with Art?  Is he okay?

just wanted a night off i believe

[Mr.Squirrel]

Are they going to talk about Werewolves now?

[pate]

yeah nobody seems to want to run with a live thread rerun.

Ima gonna use this as an opportunity to soberly reflect on Mr. Harriman's AB interview.

Still digging this last bit that I recall hearing...

[Delphi]

I loved the organic orgasms guys lol

[Chronaut]

I'm sorry if some think it makes me a bad person.  I'm really glad everyone enjoyed the show and I didn't want to ruin it, but Nassim Haramein is nothing more than a new age guru who uses science as his palette.  He takes advantage of his European accent to sound like an intellectual, throws in some geometry and voila!  Yes, probably seventy percent of what he says is based on real (lay man's) science but the other 30 percent, the interesting stuff, is unsupported and in fact often contradicts known science. 

For instance, everything we know about singularities says there cannot be black holes at the center of protons.  It doesn't fit with observation or theory.  Of course, we've never seen the sub-structure of a proton so who really knows?  But there's really no basis for Nassim's argument. 

For instance, as discussed earlier quantum entanglement cannot be manipulated to send messages as he says it can. 

For instance, the universal gravitational constant is known very precisely and is measured by every second year physics student, and since we know it so precisely I'm certain we would have noticed if it was affected by rotation as Nassim claims.  But it is only affected by mass and distance from the mass.  Of course Einstein's equations modifies that a little for strong gravitation fields, but even that has been measured very precisely and to the best of my knowledge is not observed to be influenced by rotation. 

For instance, Nassim makes great claims about the EM engine experiments and how it's going to allow us to travel instantly form place to place, but the measured effect was so small it was in the noise of the experiment and the details of the experiment have yet to be released for peer review. 

For instance, Nassim has no peer reviewed work that I am aware of.  That is important.  Peer reviewed work shows that you are able to make logical assumptions, arguments, and evaluations, and lets everybody else check your work for errors and misunderstandings.  It authenticates that you can actually research.  He does make a claim about a peer reviewed paper, but it was just a paper presented at a computing conference which was unrelated to the science of the paper. 

Nancy asked for details of why he was misrepresenting himself.  I didn't say much during the interview because I didn't want to rain on anyone's parade, and I'm only really trained in classical physics so who am I?  Nevertheless, for what it is worth here are some details off the top of my head.

It bothers me because legitimate, honest physicists work and struggle really, really hard for their level of expertise.  The material they must learn is mind-numbingly difficult.  Yet, being honest and accountable, they mostly toil in obscurity and are usurped in the media by some guy trying to take a short cut and not really understanding the real essence of the material.  It would be like a journalist who writes a bunch of sensationalist stories without vetting the facts and becomes famous, while another journalist struggles through their education and works exceedingly hard to track down leads and information, but lives a meager life and never gets noticed.

For what it's worth.

I agree with your assessment completely - Nassim Haramein is a New Age pseudo-scientist who preys on the credulous for notoriety.  He doesn’t have a firm grasp of physics, so his “revolutionary ideas” are worthless because they’re unphysical and theoretically inept.  There are two methods for demonstrating the validity of novel scientific concepts:  one can publish mathematically sound papers that demonstrate their validity, or build an experiment that demonstrates the utility of the idea.  He’s done neither, and his hypothetical claims are pseudo-scientific “word salad.”  So it makes me angry when science imposters like him take jabs at real scientists and their valuable work.

I’d like to add some clarification to your points:

- we know that protons aren’t “little black holes” for several reasons, perhaps the most compelling being the zoo of particles that are generated (muons, pions, bosons, etc) when protons collide at high energies.  The spectrum of those collision byproducts conforms perfectly with the predictions of the Standard Model and quantum chromodynamics (QCD).  Protons are made of quarks, which are fundamental and therefore conserved; that’s very well established by experiment at this point.

- the gravitational constant is a true constant; it’s the same invariant number under both Newtonian physics and general relativity.  The fact that gravitational field energy self-interacts doesn’t change the value of the constant.  No experiment has demonstrated a variation in the gravitational constant, but it is a difficult constant to measure with high precision because gravitation is so weak compared to the other forces of nature.  But the challenges of measuring it to extremely high precision does not equate to “new physics” â€" no experiment has modified G to a degree beyond the intrinsic experimental error in the measurement itself.

- his claim equating the dumb “EM Drive” device to a warp drive are ludicrous â€" there’s very little reason to think that anything beyond thermal effects are involved, and *no reason whatsoever* to think that “warp field” effects are involved…which are required for any kind of faster-than-light transit.  In the unlikely event that the effect is actually “real” aka non-thermal, it’s certainly a photon effect of some kind (it is all about microwave photons after all) so any effect will be fundamentally limited to sub-light velocities at best.

Haramein is like a modern day John Keeley (who used the public’s ignorance of “vibrations” to prey upon investors using fraudulent devices driven by air baffles), except Haramein talks about mystical “rotation” ideas instead, and he doesn’t have any fake devices to dupe his audience.  I bristle when Art refers to him as “a smart guy” because he’s not; he’s just a con artist who reads a lot of Popular Science articles, and knows that confidently making ludicrous assertions usually beguiles most trusting people without a professional science background.  Any real scientist like Dr. David Darling or Stanton Friedman could cut his “theories” to ribbons with both arms tied behind their backs.