the U.S. is in fact an oligarchy and not a democracy.

[Quick Karl]

One only has to look to Chicage and the community he "organized" as his only job qualification to be President. Such a great job there. The area he organized is really doing well in terms of violence, crime, economic opportunity, single-motherhood, gang activity, and shooting!

There isn't a single Democrat politician in The Universe, that cares one iota about the issues you outline - nor do Democrat voters, because if they did, they would all jump off the nearest bridges, when faced with the factual worsening of all of those conditions, since the Democrat Machine took CONTROL of that demographic in America.

But reality means nothing, and they will attack anyone that dares shine the light of truth on the genuine product of their dogma.

I know, its all Bush's fault...

[RealCool Daddio]

What does this have to do with Obama? He was about "change", remember? For the record I don't like Bush but, at least, we knew his background (dubious and bad as that was!) And he hasn't been President for many years now. But it is indeed telling that even the most hardcore Obama adherent always must bring up other people, especially boy Bush, instead of providing documentation or information about this character Obama. It is almost like a cult in which the "dear leader" cannot be questioned and any criticism, or even simple question, must be replied to with an example of Bush. Odd.

Dude, you questioned his ability to speak off the cuff, to think on his feet, and, for some reason, his cadence.  In other words, you offered your OPINION.  I merely pointed out that the bar for presidential oratory is quite low, given the previous presidents inadvertent comedic stylings.

So I will ask you - what does any of that have to do with Obama's qualifications?  What documentation do you require about "this character" that has not been provided?  And, did you require the same "documentation" for previous presidents?

[onan]

I know, its all Bush's fault...

Finally, you say something that has some historical accuracy. I know you don't mean it, but still.

Now your turn to rage again.

[Stellar]

how about just eliminating tax loopholes. for instance pres. 0bama  paid a effective tax rate of 20.4% for the 2013 tax year. he is in the 39.6% tax bracket (the highest).

I remember making $27.00/hour as an MCSE 12 years ago and paying 30% of my check so Obama must be hiding most of his money offshore lol.  CT here it comes Pud.

[Mind Flayer Monk]

I remember making $27.00/hour as an MCSE 12 years ago and paying 30% of my check so Obama must be hiding most of his money offshore lol.  CT here it comes Pud.

You didn't put away any money for retirement or buy a house? That would have moved your tax rate down.

[Quick Karl]

Finally, you say something that has some historical accuracy. I know you don't mean it, but still.

Now your turn to rage again.

Can't defeat the point (with a RATIONAL argument), can you?

Academic honesty does NOT mean finding evidence that supports a dogma, it means arriving at a belief based on ALL the legitimate evidence.

[NowhereInTime]

Can't defeat the point (with a RATIONAL argument), can you?

Academic honesty does NOT mean finding evidence that supports a dogma, it means arriving at a belief based on ALL the legitimate evidence.

You are so intellectually dishonest it should be a capital offense.

[albrecht]

You are so intellectually dishonest it should be a capital offense.

I don't agree with your political opinion, or indeed much of what Karl says, but I don't wish death upon you all. What is with the odd death-obsession from leftists? Whether it is abortion dreams (note clinics are almost always in poor and minority areas), death panels, euthanasia for the elderly, secret VA waiting lists hoping for the "problem" to go away, wishing death upon unbelievers, and so on? It should be a "capital offense" if someone, in your opinion of course, is intellectually dishonest? What kind of person is so quick to wish death to people, especially in this age of video-game trained, drug-addled mentally defected kids and young adults who seem to go off and kill anyone for any perceived injustice done to them or difference of opinion. Discourse should maybe be toned down from "I disagree with you and so I'm going to kill you" or "it should be a capital offense to disagree with me." That is crazy talk.

[Quick Karl]

I don't agree with your political opinion, or indeed much of what Karl says, but I don't wish death upon you all. What is with the odd death-obsession from leftists? Whether it is abortion dreams (note clinics are almost always in poor and minority areas), death panels, euthanasia for the elderly, secret VA waiting lists hoping for the "problem" to go away, wishing death upon unbelievers, and so on? It should be a "capital offense" if someone, in your opinion of course, is intellectually dishonest? What kind of person is so quick to wish death to people, especially in this age of video-game trained, drug-addled mentally defected kids and young adults who seem to go off and kill anyone for any perceived injustice done to them or difference of opinion. Discourse should maybe be toned down from "I disagree with you and so I'm going to kill you" or "it should be a capital offense to disagree with me." That is crazy talk.

I have no doubt that you do realize that at least half of what I say is designed to illustrate the blatant absurdity of the ignorance for most of what you have outlined above, and for so much more that it would be impossible to address in anything less than a 10,000-word essay... right?

[onan]

Can't defeat the point (with a RATIONAL argument), can you?

Academic honesty does NOT mean finding evidence that supports a dogma, it means arriving at a belief based on ALL the legitimate evidence.

You wouldn't know rational, any form of it, any day of the year.

I posted facts about sexual abuse in the catholic church. I referred to christians that play with venomous snakes. I posted a factual implication about mormonsim and what by legal definition is statutory rape.

And you call it dogma. Plainly put, you are a jackass. And a dumb one at that.

You are vile and insipid. You lack any character of maturity. You present as a drunken bully, sloshing around, quoting half truths mixed in with paranoia, homophobia, and racism. And on top of all that you are completely unaware of your presence. You have some narcicisstic belief that you have a clue, you don't. You are quite simply vile, insipid, and comically unaware.

[RealCool Daddio]

You wouldn't know rational, any form of it, any day of the year.

I posted facts about sexual abuse in the catholic church. I referred to christians that play with venomous snakes. I posted a factual implication about mormonsim and what by legal definition is statutory rape.

And you call it dogma. Plainly put, you are a jackass. And a dumb one at that.

You are vile and insipid. You lack any character of maturity. You present as a drunken bully, sloshing around, quoting half truths mixed in with paranoia, homophobia, and racism. And on top of all that you are completely unaware of your presence. You have some narcicisstic belief that you have a clue, you don't. You are quite simply vile, insipid, and comically unaware.

So much top right material in this post. I love you, brother, I really do.

(Cue Pre-mature Ejaculator Karl's "gay pervert" retorts...)

[Quick Karl]

You wouldn't know rational, any form of it, any day of the year.

I posted facts about sexual abuse in the catholic church. I referred to christians that play with venomous snakes. I posted a factual implication about mormonsim and what by legal definition is statutory rape.

And you call it dogma. Plainly put, you are a jackass. And a dumb one at that.

You are vile and insipid. You lack any character of maturity. You present as a drunken bully, sloshing around, quoting half truths mixed in with paranoia, homophobia, and racism. And on top of all that you are completely unaware of your presence. You have some narcicisstic belief that you have a clue, you don't. You are quite simply vile, insipid, and comically unaware.

Get a hold of your emotions, Onan, and wipe the spittle off your monitor. There is a reason for the sad condition that is your life, and it isn't 'someone else's' fault.

[onan]

Get a hold of your emotions, Onan, and wipe the spittle off your monitor. There is a reason for the sad condition that is your life, and it isn't 'someone else's' fault.

see, unaware. and surprisingly even more insipid than before.

[steelbot]

You wouldn't know rational, any form of it, any day of the year.

I posted facts about sexual abuse in the catholic church. I referred to christians that play with venomous snakes. I posted a factual implication about mormonsim and what by legal definition is statutory rape.

And you call it dogma. Plainly put, you are a jackass. And a dumb one at that.

You are vile and insipid. You lack any character of maturity. You present as a drunken bully, sloshing around, quoting half truths mixed in with paranoia, homophobia, and racism. And on top of all that you are completely unaware of your presence. You have some narcicisstic belief that you have a clue, you don't. You are quite simply vile, insipid, and comically unaware.

OH NO HE DIDN'T!

[Quick Karl]

see, unaware. and surprisingly even more insipid than before.

You're reacting like a hysterical girl, and then you demand some form of reply that you approve of...

Surely, you are off your meds again.

[onan]

You're reacting like a hysterical girl, and then you demand some form of reply that you approve of...

Surely, you are off your meds again.

umm, you are projecting your voice onto my posts. I am merely pointing out your lack... well of everything.

[Jackstar]

I hate it when Daddy and Mommy are fighting about their bad performance art.

[Quick Karl]

I hate it when Daddy and Mommy are fighting about their bad performance art.

Shit, I haven't even been inspired yet.

[NowhereInTime]

Shit, I haven't even been inspired yet.

I'm sure you'll see some puppy snuff films soon enough.

[WOTR]

All the people fucking this country, have University degrees, while genuine CITIZEN working people are just struggling to survive.

I hope a Mao comes to America, and we have an American Cultural Revolution.

It cannot happen soon enough.

I know that I am cynical.  However, the ONLY reason that the person who you refer to as a "genuine citizen" is not screwing the country is because they do not have the influence or ability to do so.  Joe six pack would fuck over people every bit as much as the university educated Blankfein IF he had the connections, ability and brains to siphon billions out of the economy into his own pocket.  There is nothing about a degree that makes a person any more greedy / corrupt than a person lacking one.  Often it just gives that person better access to screw others.

Yes, power to the workers.  I am certain that the leaders of your Maoist revolution will be level headed and live simply while they distribute wealth (that has, after all, always been what the leaders do when the proletariat rises... is it not?  They do not live in luxury while their followers starve and shed their blood.) :

[Quick Karl]

I know that I am cynical.  However, the ONLY reason that the person who you refer to as a "genuine citizen" is not screwing the country is because they do not have the influence or ability to do so.  Joe six pack would fuck over people every bit as much as the university educated Blankfein IF he had the connections, ability and brains to siphon billions out of the economy into his own pocket.  There is nothing about a degree that makes a person any more greedy / corrupt than a person lacking one.  Often it just gives that person better access to screw others.

Yes, power to the workers.  I am certain that the leaders of your Maoist revolution will be level headed and live simply while they distribute wealth (that has, after all, always been what the leaders do when the proletariat rises... is it not?  They do not live in luxury while their followers starve and shed their blood.) :

All societies are the product of what they are taught by the people leading their societies. Do you teach your children to fuck whomever they can to get what they want for themselves to the detriment of everyone and anyone outside their little circle?

You missed the larger point. And you do not get hyperbole, as much as lots of folks here.

The fact that the issue I addressed in the aforementioned commentary is completely ignored by the self-obsessed, self-appointed, super-geniuses here, and in the Universities, while they concurrently fraudulently call for a more compassionate, more civil society, makes me sick to my stomach.

Ignoring the aforementioned, is what paves the way for the Mao's of the world, every, time. Deservingly so.

[Jackstar]

Do you teach your children to fuck

...The Aristocrats. Ta-dah!!

Oh, wait. Too soon?

[WOTR]

All societies are the product of what they are taught by the people leading their societies. Do you teach your children to fuck whomever they can to get what they want for themselves to the detriment of everyone and anyone outside their little circle?

You missed the larger point. And you do not get hyperbole, as much as lots of folks here.

The fact that the issue I addressed in the aforementioned commentary is completely ignored by the self-obsessed, self-appointed, super-geniuses here, and in the Universities, while they concurrently fraudulently call for a more compassionate, more civil society, makes me sick to my stomach.

Ignoring the aforementioned, is what paves the way for the Mao's of the world, every, time. Deservingly so.

I do not think it matters what I teach my child... Human nature has always been to take / get as much as you can.  Corruption, power and greed have existed as far back as our written record allows us to go and further when you start looking at what anthropologists and archaeologists dig up.  I would love to see a more compassionate, caring society- but it will never happen.  If anything I would argue that while the wealth and corruption continue that at least there are more scraps for the common folk than there used to be.  Corporations and the rich do donate more now to socal programs / drug treatment centers / shelters than they ever have in the past regardless of the motivation.  (I suspect is is a combination of guilt for individuals and trying to look good and increase their sales for corporations.)

Finally, I do not know that this one would result in your Maoist society.  Thanks to the fact that Stalin, Lenin, Mao and more importantly the anti-intellectual Pol Pot have already demonstrated the kind of society you get and the fact that books and film are here to remind us I doubt we are heading down that road.  Regardless of how much those at the top take we will see the kind of reforms to prevent it that we have under both the Bush and now the Obama administration.... "The fines for bad behavior in the range of 10% of your profits will continue until such time as they can be lowered."

[Quick Karl]

I do not think it matters what I teach my child... Human nature has always been to take / get as much as you can.  Corruption, power and greed have existed as far back as our written record allows us to go and further when you start looking at what anthropologists and archaeologists dig up.  I would love to see a more compassionate, caring society- but it will never happen.  If anything I would argue that while the wealth and corruption continue that at least there are more scraps for the common folk than there used to be.  Corporations and the rich do donate more now to socal programs / drug treatment centers / shelters than they ever have in the past regardless of the motivation.  (I suspect is is a combination of guilt for individuals and trying to look good and increase their sales for corporations.)

Finally, I do not know that this one would result in your Maoist society.  Thanks to the fact that Stalin, Lenin, Mao and more importantly the anti-intellectual Pol Pot have already demonstrated the kind of society you get and the fact that books and film are here to remind us I doubt we are heading down that road.  Regardless of how much those at the top take we will see the kind of reforms to prevent it that we have under both the Bush and now the Obama administration.... "The fines for bad behavior in the range of 10% of your profits will continue until such time as they can be lowered."

I respect your sociopathic beliefs about human nature, but I believe it is the responsibility of parents, and leaders of societies, to teach humans to strive to rise above their animalistic, self-obsessed, psychotic ape tendencies, and be better people to each other, especially to those upon whom they walk while telling themselves they are superior beings that have the divine right to do so, just cause they think so, no matter how hard any particular psychopath may believe that effort to be.

Furthermore, I believe that duty is doubly incumbent upon anyone that "thinks" (or hallucinates) that they are smarter, and or better, than someone, or anyone, else.

[WOTR]

I respect your sociopathic beliefs about human nature...

Oddly enough, I do not disagree with your post.  We do have to try to teach people better... It is something that parents, teachers, politicians, the media and society ought to try to instill in people.  I honestly hope one day I can join (them)... and the world will be one.

In the mean time, I try to do what I can- and I know plenty of people who are "good" (whatever that might be...)  The sad fact is that I think that most of us are (somewhat) good because the temptation of raping pension funds and pensioners with high frequency trading and Enron backroom deals to shut off electricity to grids does not touch our world. 

The funny thing is that I believe that most people are generally "good."  When I meet people I believe the majority try.  However, offer those same "good" people tens of millions of dollars taken from nameless, faceless people and funds and almost every one of them will take the $$$.  Offer those same people political power and they will quickly become friends with the heads of the largest corporations.  They will just want to help out their new friends (after all, I am certain that if you met Blankfein you would think he were a fine human being.)  suddenly you are writing laws that help your friend despite the fact that it drains a few dollars from the teachers pension fund.  You will just top up that fund with taxes from struggling single mothers.  You will provide welfare for them with the funds that you collect from Goldman and JP Morgan...  And round it goes. 

Does it sound odd that while I believe that Blankfein may be the devil manifest in the flesh that I think he is probably a genuinely nice person who would probably not steal from his neighbour (so long as HFT only takes from nameless accounts it is just fine...)  I am positive that I could sit down for a drink with him and leave feeling that he is a great man and cares for the "little people." 

I just do not have the ability to believe that people will not take advantage of any situation they find themselves in... I wish I could believe that but... 

[WOTR]

...They are run much better than the Blue States, and certainly better than the Federal Govt.  Just look at the comparitive levels of debt.  Or taxes.  Or business friendliness....

I almost hate to point this out... but that is exactly the problem that the white paper speaks to.  It is great that the red states are more business friendly.  Sadly, that is the problem that this paper appears to identify.

From the white paper:
"The central point that emerges from our research is that economic elites and organized groups representing business interests have substantial independent impacts on U.S. government policy, while mass-based interest groups and average citizens have little or no independent influence. Our results provide substantial support for theories of Economic Elite Domination and for theories of Biased Pluralism, but not for theories of Majoritarian Electoral Democracy or Majoritarian Pluralism."

Sooooo, groups representing business interests have substantial impacts on policy according to the paper.  According to you, red states are "more business friendly."  I really have to conclude that if that if you are correct that in a business friendly state the business men (and as such, the economic elite) would have MORE influence than in a state that cares a little more for the people and a little less about attracting businesses.  (Yes, I realize that you can argue that you need businesses to employ people and as such a state that is "business friendly" actually cares more about the citizens than a state that is more hostile towards business- but the paper still talks about how the states are now an oligarchy...)

[Quick Karl]

I almost hate to point this out... but that is exactly the problem that the white paper speaks to.  It is great that the red states are more business friendly.  Sadly, that is the problem that this paper appears to identify.

From the white paper:
"The central point that emerges from our research is that economic elites and organized groups representing business interests have substantial independent impacts on U.S. government policy, while mass-based interest groups and average citizens have little or no independent influence. Our results provide substantial support for theories of Economic Elite Domination and for theories of Biased Pluralism, but not for theories of Majoritarian Electoral Democracy or Majoritarian Pluralism."

Sooooo, groups representing business interests have substantial impacts on policy according to the paper.  According to you, red states are "more business friendly."  I really have to conclude that if that if you are correct that in a business friendly state the business men (and as such, the economic elite) would have MORE influence than in a state that cares a little more for the people and a little less about attracting businesses.  (Yes, I realize that you can argue that you need businesses to employ people and as such a state that is "business friendly" actually cares more about the citizens than a state that is more hostile towards business- but the paper still talks about how the states are now an oligarchy...)

I would like to chime in.

I urge anyone that wants to comprehend the true principles and philosophies that The Founders relied on when they contemplated the formation of The United States and a Free Market Economy, to read, The Creation of The American Republic, by Gordon S. Wood. (and sorry but, it's not one of them "weekend" books, it is beyond comprehensive).

Their concept of a Free market Economy, was, in fact, NOT the so-called, Free Market Economy that people like Mark Levin, Sean Hannity, and that paragon of stupidity, Rush Limbaugh, feed a willing listenership.

The Founders actually believed, and stated, that all businesses have a responsibility not only to its own bottom line, but to its employees (as is paying a fair wage), to its customers (as in providing a sound product and/or service), and to the community in which it lives, which IS the foundation upon which all successful business are built (as in CONTRIBUTING to the INFRASTRUCTURE ad overall IMPROVEMENT of said community and not getting tax breaks).

In my humble opinion, if The Founders saw what "Business" in America is doing today - sending American jobs to China and India, lobbying for Tax breaks that their underpaid workers do NOT get, ripping people off for their savings as in Solyndra, Enron or any of the myriad Stock Market scams or or AIG, Fanny Mae & Freddy Mac, HealthSouth, WorldCom, MCI, 401K’s, etc. etc. etc. (I could go on for days), the Founders would be shooting, and they would NOT be shooting the "poor working man".

Real Free Market Capitalism, is actually a very good concept, but we aren't living in that, we are living in a Vulture Capitalism that is replete with average Joe's sitting in their armchairs that just hate poor people, no matter what color they are, and cling to the tenants of a concept they aren't even honest enough to investigate, to justify telling po folk to go fuck themselves, while they lie on their insurance claim when their water heater leaks.

And then they cry when those po folk vote for Obama, and Hillary...

Lastly, The Founders, were Libertarians, NOT Republicans or Democrats, and we're supposed to be living in a Representative Republic, NOT a "democracy".

[NowhereInTime]

I don't agree with your political opinion, or indeed much of what Karl says, but I don't wish death upon you all. What is with the odd death-obsession from leftists? Whether it is abortion dreams (note clinics are almost always in poor and minority areas), death panels, euthanasia for the elderly, secret VA waiting lists hoping for the "problem" to go away, wishing death upon unbelievers, and so on? It should be a "capital offense" if someone, in your opinion of course, is intellectually dishonest? What kind of person is so quick to wish death to people, especially in this age of video-game trained, drug-addled mentally defected kids and young adults who seem to go off and kill anyone for any perceived injustice done to them or difference of opinion. Discourse should maybe be toned down from "I disagree with you and so I'm going to kill you" or "it should be a capital offense to disagree with me." That is crazy talk.

Tedious.  You have nothing better to do than try to lump all lefties together, cast apersion upon them, then villify them in contrast to your own beliefs.

Abortion dreams?  Do you really think that or is that demagoguery?  Clinics in poor and minority areas? There are clinics in towns here with per capita income over $55,000 a year.  Unplanned pregnancy is unplanned pregnancy.  Choice is choice.

Death panels?  A fiction of the right unworthy of response.

Euthanasia?  Again, choice is choice.  How (and who) are you to tell anyone when they can end their lives?

Of course, being a right wing hypocrite, you left out liberal opposition to state mandated killing.  All of you cons on here are so concerned about government taking your guns, money, or "rights" when you ought to be concerned about government taking your life.

Truth is, I lash out at Quick Karl because he is vile.  I am offended when people like Paper *Boy turn a blind eye to his hate filled vitriol or when people engage him like he is sane.  No, I do not wish death on him or any other poster, but I do wish he'd go back into hiding (or jail, which is where I think he really was).

[albrecht]

" when you ought to be concerned about government taking your life.

Truth is, I lash out at Quick Karl because he is vile.  I am offended when people like Paper *Boy turn a blind eye to his hate filled vitriol or when people engage him like he is sane.  No, I do not wish death on him or any other poster, but I do wish he'd go back into hiding (or jail, which is where I think he really was).

I agree we have lots more to fear from government than even the crazy freak who goes on a killing spree. That is why the government shouldn't be a part of our healthcare, have all those databases on us, death panels at the VA, encourage (maybe even without consent) euthanasia, abortion, sterilization, etc (as we have done here in the States in the past for the "infirm", the "retarded", to minorities, and so forth), and our economy. Governments have killed much more due to their polices, even excluding war, than individuals. By commission, purpose starvation policies of Stalin, or omission (simply bad policies leading to many deaths.) Smaller government is certainly better for society and our safety.

[NowhereInTime]

I agree we have lots more to fear from government than even the crazy freak who goes on a killing spree. That is why the government shouldn't be a part of our healthcare, have all those databases on us, death panels at the VA, encourage (maybe even without consent) euthanasia, abortion, sterilization, etc (as we have done here in the States in the past for the "infirm", the "retarded", to minorities, and so forth), and our economy. Governments have killed much more due to their polices, even excluding war, than individuals. By commission, purpose starvation policies of Stalin, or omission (simply bad policies leading to many deaths.) Smaller government is certainly better for society and our safety.

The VA situation is a disgrace and, as I have said before and will say again I am humiliated as an Obama supporter that he never followed through on promises to eliminate ghastly conditions at VA's hospitals.  If there was one thing we all asked for, it was for better care for our vets.  He went some way yesterday to acknowledging his lack of focus yesterday at Arlington National Cemetary, but he better follow up with real action.