Rotten Evil Christians at work...

[PB the Deplorable]

These fundamentalist are for the most part harmless good citizens.
If you must voice your witty immature nonsense, maybe direct it towards groups that are out to destroy us.

Would you rather live next to Christian fundamentalists or some Occupy jerkoffs?

I'll take the Christians anytime.

[SciFiAuthor]

I've always wondered about this 5000 year old culture thing with China. It's nothing close to true and must either stem from communist Chinese propaganda or is an invention of western liberals making the case that everywhere else is better than here. I just don' see it. The Chinese have only had writing for 3200 years (pales in comparison to Egypt and Mesopotamia), which means anything before is as mythical as the bible. Further, they're no different than anyone else. They've been occupied by Mongols, occupied and ruled by a foreign Manchurian power for 268 years, weren't a single kingdom until the end of the warring states period and even then nothing close to encompassing what is now geographically China, have underwent massive cultural upheaval such as the cultural revolution which had the specific intent of reinventing the culture entirely, and currently look like little more than a version of western culture much like Japan.

I also don't get this USA is a young country stuff. It's always calculated from 1776, when the revolution began and the political entity known as the United States came into being. Well, let's apply that rule to everyone else. China's revolution was in 1949 when it adopted a government invented by a German. France is on republic #5 (1958), the UK dates from the acts of union of 1800, Germany was born in 1871, as was Italy, every commonwealth country dates from their 20th century independence as do all former colonies of European countries, Russia and all the FSU are babies having formed only in the 1990's, The Netherlands got its monarchy in 1815 after centuries of democracy, all of South America is post-Spanish colonial. Saudi Arabia is a 20th century invention, as are all former Ottoman territories. Iran didn't just have a revolution in 1979, they renamed the damned country.

The fact is, there are only a handful of continuous governments older than the US. Switzerland and San Marino and a scant few others.

[WhiteCrow]

Would you rather live next to Christian fundamentalists or some Occupy jerkoffs?

I'll take the Christians anytime.

ie Occupy jerkoffs = Raggies

[PB the Deplorable]

I've always wondered about this 5000 year old culture thing with China...

They mean there has been a continuous identifiable Chinese culture for the 5000 years.

Rome for example fell and something entirely different sprang up.  There is still a country called Egypt by the Nile, but it's nothing like the civilization that build the pyramids and the rest.

The US should be dated from around the time of the Mayflower, not the Revolution.

[WhiteCrow]

I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest he wasn't talking about the China of 5000 years ago, but the one over the past 60 years including up to today.  You know, all the murders, forced abortions, the way they've seized land (Tibet) and international water and airspace (East China Sea), bullying their neighbors, environmental degradation.  You know, the usual activities in a Communist country. 

(And Pud, before you paper me over with you dictionaries and sophistry, when I say 'Communist' I mean it as the generally accepted term applied to countries like Stalin's Russia and Mao's China, regardless of whatever label you want to put on them).

I would have assumed someone that thinks our version of a Capitalist economy - with all our safeguards and regulations - is 'evil' would be beyond outraged and appalled by China's current version of Capitalism without them.  But then I remember - the Left doesn't really mean any of it, finding any fault (economic or otherwise) and exploiting it is just a tactic in their war against the US, Liberty, and democracy.  It's why they aren't the least bit concerned about much worse elsewhere and even pretend those places are somehow better (like in the post I responded to).

Thanks but no need to go out on limb... I don't argue nor discuss with these BellGab Raggies, just set them up to make fools of themselves, spouting off their immature warped values.

Think about this one Raggies, we all enjoy the nonsense of the paranormal with all it's crazy interpretations, we cut it slack and tolerance, but offer neither when talking about a value system that is the foundation of our freedom and wealth.

Do you Rag heads really believe that many Christians aren't doubters and skeptics about Christianity, same as we are with the paranormal?

[albrecht]

The fact is, there are only a handful of continuous governments older than the US. Switzerland and San Marino and a scant few others.

Yep. Most people don't understand this fact. Though many think in terms of a "nation" versus a government historically. So that places like Russia, China, Britain (or at least England) etc could be considered long term. But it also should make people think that "it can happen here" with the enemy within, an open-border policy, and so forth. It actually is quite amazing that the US hasn't fallen, yet, considering the ideas enshrined in the Constitution and it's welcoming of immigrants even those who are illegal. (I know, of course, that some say it has fallen etc etc) but considering that, at least for now, one in the same day can go to work, go to a protest, buy a gun, buy a beer, get in their own car, and drive to their own home tells me we haven't been lost yet. (Again, I know, you have to register your gun, buy insurance on your car, get a operator license for your car, and -unless very lucky- have to pay property taxes on your- or maybe or mortgage- on your land so you don't "really" own it...but better than lots of places on earth these days.)

[SciFiAuthor]

They mean there has been a continuous identifiable Chinese culture for the 5000 years.

Rome for example fell and something entirely different sprang up.  There is still a country called Egypt by the Nile, but it's nothing like the civilization that build the pyramids and the rest.

The US should be dated from around the time of the Mayflower, not the Revolution.

I'm not sure the Chinese actually are continuous though. Mao's cultural revolution pretty much killed off everything it could from the imperial era, simplified the entire language, completely changed their art forms, the clothing is largely gone, the monetary system is entirely western and Keynesian. I mean, 150 years ago the Chinese were already worried that western culture and the Ch'ing dynasty were killing off every remnant of Han cultural identity causing them to attempt to be virulently insular and anti-foreigner. And that was long before Mao got a hold of things. Other than grinding up rhino horns to treat gout and reading Confucius, I really don't see much there that isn't either new, heavily impacted by the west, or outright adopted from western culture. Even religion isn't quite the same, given an officially atheistic or state-approved only position towards religion and the complete lack of a god-emperor.

I'd say yes, the US would be more reasonably dated from the mayflower in cultural terms, as should anyone else relevant to how long the culture has been in place. But it's always driven me nuts when I've seen that age of country argument. It's absurd and doesn't mean anything. Hitler wanted a thousand year Reich, well, if he'd have gotten one it would have only been nothing but bad for the world.

[onan]

I don't mind being called a pavlovian dog by a so called christian that takes credit for the works of others because of some christian tenet.

But like so many dim-witted christians... a few people do good work and all the slack, sit-in-the-back-of-the-church-don't-wanna-do-anything-but-feel-feel-good-assholes, can only find time to focus on their own egos's.

It has been pointed out for more than a decade that if local congregations really wanted to help in third world countries their donations would do more good collectively than church by church... but those churches seem to be deaf.

Christians love to talk about their donations. Yet in the US, Catholic Charities spent 30 billion dollars... which is a lot but the government funded means tested programs to the tune of 588 billion dollars and gave Catholic Charities 1.5 billion... which was part of the 30 billion.

Look, I don't mind Christians that live their faith, as long as it doesn't impede others. Attempting to insert creation (nonsense) science into academic education, interjecting exclusionary practices into legislation, and deciding that god did it as an explanation to scientific discussion offends me, as it should any thinking individual.

[SciFiAuthor]

I don't mind being called a pavlovian dog by a so called christian that takes credit for the works of others because of some christian tenet.

But like so many dim-witted christians... a few people do good work and all the slack, sit-in-the-back-of-the-church-don't-wanna-do-anything-but-feel-feel-good-assholes, can only find time to focus on their own egos's.

It has been pointed out for more than a decade that if local congregations really wanted to help in third world countries their donations would do more good collectively than church by church... but those churches seem to be deaf.

Christians love to talk about their donations. Yet in the US, Catholic Charities spent 30 billion dollars... which is a lot but the government funded means tested programs to the tune of 588 billion dollars and gave Catholic Charities 1.5 billion... which was part of the 30 billion.

Look, I don't mind Christians that live their faith, as long as it doesn't impede others. Attempting to insert creation (nonsense) science into academic education, interjecting exclusionary practices into legislation, and deciding that god did it as an explanation to scientific discussion offends me, as it should any thinking individual.

You know that "intelligent design" push was really strange. The Catholic Church opposed it. Same with the Episcopalians. It was all from the evangelical protestants, and even then I'm not actually sure it was consistent with the theology of their own sects based on what the other Christian sects in opposition observed about it. I'm no theologian, but they seemed to have really good religious arguments against it. The whole thing seems to have been a fringe concept that should have never made it as far is it did.

It's an example on the right of what I'm always whining about on the left. A certain well-placed, well-connected person that thinks far outside of the mainstream can inject a concept into the debate or even embody it in policy and we end up with something that isn't consistent with mainstream thought. Yet, if that concept makes it far enough, people just seem to accept it and nod like bobble-heads without a second thought about what the hell just happened.

[VtaGeezer]

Would you rather live next to Christian fundamentalists or some Occupy jerkoffs?

I'll take the Christians anytime.

I'll take the Christians too, but mostly because they don't do drum circles or crap in the shrubbery.

[onan]

You know that "intelligent design" push was really strange. The Catholic Church opposed it. Same with the Episcopalians. It was all from the evangelical protestants, and even then I'm not actually sure it was consistent with the theology of their own sects based on what the other Christian sects in opposition observed about it. I'm no theologian, but they seemed to have really good religious arguments against it. The whole thing seems to have been a fringe concept that should have never made it as far is it did.

It's an example on the right of what I'm always whining about on the left. A certain well-placed, well-connected person that thinks far outside of the mainstream can inject a concept into the debate or even embody it in policy and we end up with something that isn't consistent with mainstream thought. Yet, if that concept makes it far enough, people just seem to accept it and nod like bobble-heads without a second thought about what the hell just happened.

There are many Christians that use common sense and realize faith is more than subscribing to arcane beliefs. I usually walk away from arguments about christian faith, because the descriptor "christian" is so nebulous. Perhaps I should start using the term fundamentalist.

[SciFiAuthor]

There are many Christians that use common sense and realize faith is more than subscribing to arcane beliefs. I usually walk away from arguments about christian faith, because the descriptor "christian" is so nebulous. Perhaps I should start using the term fundamentalist.

You'll get no argument from me, I agree with you on religion. I've always used the term "fundy", but I realize that's not exactly friendly. But I'm not exactly friendly with anyone that can delude themselves into thinking the Earth is only 6000 years old.

We all know it's 19.5 billion years old. It's in the data, just look at the data.

[FightTheFuture]

You'll get no argument from me, I agree with you on religion. I've always used the term "fundy", but I realize that's not exactly friendly. But I'm not exactly friendly with anyone that can delude themselves into thinking the Earth is only 6000 years old.

We all know it's 19.5 billion years old. It's in the data, just look at the data.

Have you ever met anybody that believes the earth is only 6000 years old? I  haven't,  and I know an awful lot of Christians.

There's plenty of room for science and Christianity to co-exist. A rational person understands the shortcomings of each.  Christianity does not  answer every question. And science can't even tell us how the Shroud of Turin came to be.

[onan]

Have you ever met anybody that believes the earth is only 6000 years old? I  haven't,  and I know an awful lot of Christians.

There's plenty of room for science and Christianity to co-exist. A rational person understands the shortcomings of each.  Christianity does not  answer every question. And science can't even tell us how the Shroud of Turin came to be.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2012/06/04/nearly-half-of-americans-believe-in-creationism-over-evolution-do-you-poll/

Jun. 4, 2012 8:25am
Nearly Half of Americans Believe in Creationism Over Evolution â€" Do You? (Poll)

New research from Gallup conducted earlier this month found that 46 percent of Americans still embrace creationism, the notion that God directly created human beings in their present form at one point in the last 10,000 years

[FightTheFuture]

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2012/06/04/nearly-half-of-americans-believe-in-creationism-over-evolution-do-you-poll/

Jun. 4, 2012 8:25am
Nearly Half of Americans Believe in Creationism Over Evolution â€" Do You? (Poll)

I believe God created the heavens and the earth and all the creatures in each. The rest is semantics as far as I am concerned.

[b_dubb]

Have you ever met anybody that believes the earth is only 6000 years old? I  haven't,  and I know an awful lot of Christians.

There's plenty of room for science and Christianity to co-exist. A rational person understands the shortcomings of each.  Christianity does not  answer every question. And science can't even tell us how the Shroud of Turin came to be.

Our pastor once mentioned how the Earth was millions and millions of years old during his sermon. Afterwards several people explained to him that the Earth was 6000 years old. There are a lot of people in our church that believe that. It pisses me off.

[NowhereInTime]

I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest he wasn't talking about the USA  of 5000 years ago, but the one over the past 60 years including up to today.  You know, all the murders (especially capital executions and violent gun deaths), forced abortions (you know, due to welfare cuts), the way they've seized land (Iraq, Afghanistan) and international water and airspace (Guantanamo), bullying their neighbors (Mexico, Canada), environmental degradation (strip mining, fracking).  You know, the usual activities in a Capitalist country. 

(And Pud, before you paper me over with you dictionaries and sophistry, when I say 'Communist' I mean it as the generally accepted term applied to countries like Stalin's Russia and Mao's China, regardless of whatever label you want to put on them).

I would have assumed someone that thinks our version of a Capitalist economy - with all our safeguards and regulations - is 'evil' would be beyond outraged and appalled by China's current version of Capitalism without them.  But then I remember - the Left doesn't really mean any of it, finding any fault (economic or otherwise) and exploiting it is just a tactic in their war against the US, Liberty, and democracy.  It's why they aren't the least bit concerned about much worse elsewhere and even pretend those places are somehow better (like in the post I responded to).

I appreciate you "going out on a limb" wholly for the sake of being contrary, but then perhaps WhiteCrow should've used "totalitarian values", or as we are witnessing, "Russian values."  Except you cons all hold Putin in such high esteem you wouldn't want to contradict yourselves, even in the face of evidence.
And surprise, surprise!  You use your last 60 years of Chinese history as yet another platform to call me and other leftside true believers as somehow anti-American.  Keep hammering away with your deluded preconceptions.

[SciFiAuthor]

Have you ever met anybody that believes the earth is only 6000 years old? I  haven't,  and I know an awful lot of Christians.

There's plenty of room for science and Christianity to co-exist. A rational person understands the shortcomings of each.  Christianity does not  answer every question. And science can't even tell us how the Shroud of Turin came to be.

Oh sure, I know at least three that I can think off the top of my head. They're not hard to find here in the bible belt. One of them is actually a very intelligent, degreed individual that goes so far as to try to find "scientific" evidence  for a young earth. I even know a guy that wouldn't let his kids watch The Lord of the Rings because it involved sorcery.

For me, Christianity fails to answer any questions at all. No God would knowingly make a religion so ambiguous that it requires human interpretation. That has resulted in Christianity splitting into sects of Lutherans, Catholics, 10,000 brands of evangelical, Episcopalians, Methodists, Copts, Orthodox etc. all over what various phrases in the NT could mean or might not mean, with all of the sects believing vehemently that they're right. Only one can be right but God never weighed in on the matter so you're left gambling for salvation as you try to figure out which is the correct one.

Christianity in action seems to indicate that God runs the universe as a casino. Have faith, pull the lever, and hope to Jesus you picked the right sect. If you didn't then hell fire awaits. 

That said, at least Judeo-Christian moral codes work well and religion does give some people comfort when dealing with death, but it's never made any sense to me.

[FightTheFuture]

Oh sure, I know at least three that I can think off the top of my head. They're not hard to find here in the bible belt. One of them is actually a very intelligent, degreed individual that goes so far as to try to find "scientific" evidence  for a young earth. I even know a guy that wouldn't let his kids watch The Lord of the Rings because it involved sorcery.

For me, Christianity fails to answer any questions at all. No God would knowingly make a religion so ambiguous that it requires human interpretation. That has resulted in Christianity splitting into sects of Lutherans, Catholics, 10,000 brands of evangelical, Episcopalians, Methodists, Copts, Orthodox etc. all over what various phrases in the NT could mean or might not mean, with all of the sects believing vehemently that they're right. Only one can be right but God never weighed in on the matter so you're left gambling for salvation as you try to figure out which is the correct one.

Christianity in action seems to indicate that God runs the universe as a casino. Have faith, pull the lever, and hope to Jesus you picked the right sect. If you didn't then hell fire awaits. 

That said, at least Judeo-Christian moral codes work well and religion does give some people comfort when dealing with death, but it's never made any sense to me.

Free will. God isn't a puppet master.  He sure as hell had nothing to do with religion. That's purely a manmade concoction.

He has given us all we need to live a good and righteus life.  The rest is entirely up to you.

[SciFiAuthor]

Free will. God isn't a puppet master.  He sure as hell had nothing to do with religion. That's purely a manmade concoction.

He has given us all we need to live a good and righteus life.  The rest is entirely up to you.

Well, ok, but Matthew 16:18 seems to suggest that Jesus had every intention of forming a religion. You have to resort to interpretation in order to reject it, and that's the heart of the problem. You can't just make up your own version of a religion that comes with an eternal punishment for sin. You need a rule book, and that rule book is so ambiguous that it's created numerous sects that believe different variations on a theme.

Take divorce. The sects are all over the board on it, but it might be a mortal sin that would mean a divorced Christian is not living a good and righteous life. Or maybe they are according to others. Well, you can't have it both ways. I doubt God's judgment of being eternally roasted for splitting the sheets comes down to which denomination's preacher is more convenient to believe.

[paladin1991]

You know that the comment you are responding to was posted 6 weeks ago and the original poster hasn't logged on in over 5 weeks?


"Being forewarned is having forearms." - Kelli Bundy.

Welcome Aboard!

Oh.  Is that what that date time group thingy is all about? Huh.

[NowhereInTime]

Oh.  Is that what that date time group thingy is all about? Huh.

I only mention because QK is gone but, unfortunately, not yet forgotten.

[paladin1991]

I only mention because QK is gone but, unfortunately, not yet forgotten.

Who?

[Yorkshire pud]

Who?

It's fine; Better not to know. He is a very unpleasant misogynistic and deeply misinformed individual.

[West of the Rockies]

ie Occupy jerkoffs = Raggies

You're the only person I've ever heard use the term "raggies"....  I've heard the term "raghead" (to describe Islamic/arabic folk)... I've heard the term "on the rag" (to define women who are menstruating).  But raggies?  Is that a regional thing?  Where are you from?  Have you ever heard anyone else use it, WhiteCrow? 

You keep using that word... I do not think it means what you think it means.

[West of the Rockies]

Oh, and I just HAVE to quote Onan:  "Fuckin' raggies!"

[b_dubb]

[Juan]

Particularly in Georgia and North Carolina, I knew many people who believed in the young earth.  They also claimed to believe in a complete literal reading of the Bible.  Of course, I'd point out the linage of Jesus in Matthew vs that in Luke and ask which was correct.  I'd point out that Cain was cast out after killing Able, and that he went out in the country and took a wife.  I always loved asking where she came from.

But then, I'm a born trouble maker.  Even in my Christianity.

[onan]

Would you rather live next to Christian fundamentalists or some Occupy jerkoffs?

I'll take the Christians anytime.

I live next door to an "Occupy Movement" couple... I couldn't ask for better neighbors. They are responsible, friendly, and tolerant, unlike some here.

[NowhereInTime]

I live next door to an "Occupy Movement" couple... I couldn't ask for better neighbors. They are responsible, friendly, and tolerant, unlike some here.

Make that two. I rather have them for neighbors than a home full of judgmental nosy fundamentalists.  Stupid Flanders...