Let me tell you a story about "Faith Healers"

[onan]

About 3 years ago, I met a 9 year old boy that came to the emergency room due to continued hallucinations and escalating dangerous behavior.

This young man, for the sake of anonymity will be called Bobby. Bobby was a slightly smaller than average 9 year old. His skin was pale white and he looked like he hadn't slept in days. His voice was of normal rate, rhythm with a soft prepubescent tone.

Mother reported Bobby had been telling her of demons coming into his room every night through openings in the air. They came and told him he had to kill his mother. They told him his mother would be safe if she were dead. Mother also informed me she had her preacher come to the house and exorcise the house room by room. Then she told me she had Bobby exorcised twice with poor results. "he just gets worse" "I pray to god, I hold Bobby down and I pray for his soul to be healed."

She informed me that the preacher advised her not to bring her son to a psychiatric hospital because there were many demons possessing others that were being treated.

What ever the reason mother did bring Bobby to us. And Bobby did and will continue to suffer with schizophrenia for his entire life. An MRI pretty much confirmed the diagnosis, along with several weeks of observation.

What also happened was Bobby's delusions were so firmly supported by the superstition of the family's church and the mother's insistence of prayer through physical assault that Bobby will need intensive intervention for who knows how long.

The problem, with all you intentionality idiots, is you don't have to do the clean up. You get to keep on believing you are doing god's work; when in actuality you are doing the opposite.

[Yorkshire pud]

Tiz the way Onan..We get it over here too. Quite why these idiots don't get arrested and charged with cruelty hasn't been answered though.

[jazmunda]

What about the religious wackos that refuse medical treatment on the grounds that God will heal them. It's one thing for adults not to be treated but when they refuse to have treatment on one of their children it is not just neglectful it should be criminal.

[RealCool Daddio]

Such a sad story, Onan.  Here in Texas, those wack jobs are everywhere.  Hell, they pretty much run the place. 

[aldousburbank]

Wait, Onan, nobody was healed in your story. Am I missing something?

[onan]

Wait, Onan, nobody was healed in your story. Am I missing something?

Maybe

[area51drone]

You're preaching to the choir here.   My whole family is very religious, I don't know to this extent, but they definitely believe in demonic possession.   James Randi wrote a great book on the subject... The Faith Healers.  If anyone wants it, I'll be happy to mail it to you at no charge.

[McPhallus]

You're off on quite a tear there, onan.

[onan]

I wrote it for two people in particular... I doubt they read it.

[Juan]

They sound like Protestants.  I didn't know Protestants knew how to do a proper exorcism. 

[Usagi]

What about the religious wackos that refuse medical treatment on the grounds that God will heal them. It's one thing for adults not to be treated but when they refuse to have treatment on one of their children it is not just neglectful it should be criminal.

http://news.discovery.com/human/psychology/faith-healing-parents-arrested-over-death-of-second-child-130424.htm

Yes, it should be criminal to not seek appropriate medical treatment for a child.  In this country, though, you get a few dead kid passes, it would seem.  Granted, I think you should have to take a fucking test and get approved to be a parent, but that's a different story.

--

Thank you for sharing that, Onan.  I hope the intended targets read it.

[grano salis]

About 3 years ago, I met a 9 year old boy that came to the emergency room due to continued hallucinations and escalating dangerous behavior.

This young man, for the sake of anonymity will be called Bobby. Bobby was a slightly smaller than average 9 year old. His skin was pale white and he looked like he hadn't slept in days. His voice was of normal rate, rhythm with a soft prepubescent tone.

Mother reported Bobby had been telling her of demons coming into his room every night through openings in the air. They came and told him he had to kill his mother. They told him his mother would be safe if she were dead. Mother also informed me she had her preacher come to the house and exorcise the house room by room. Then she told me she had Bobby exorcised twice with poor results. "he just gets worse" "I pray to god, I hold Bobby down and I pray for his soul to be healed."

She informed me that the preacher advised her not to bring her son to a psychiatric hospital because there were many demons possessing others that were being treated.

What ever the reason mother did bring Bobby to us. And Bobby did and will continue to suffer with schizophrenia for his entire life. An MRI pretty much confirmed the diagnosis, along with several weeks of observation.

What also happened was Bobby's delusions were so firmly supported by the superstition of the family's church and the mother's insistence of prayer through physical assault that Bobby will need intensive intervention for who knows how long.

The problem, with all you intentionality idiots, is you don't have to do the clean up. You get to keep on believing you are doing god's work; when in actuality you are doing the opposite.

Hold it Onan.  Are you saying that you can diagnose Schizophrenia with an MRI?

[onan]

Hold it Onan.  Are you saying that you can diagnose Schizophrenia with an MRI?

I am saying there are structural differences that show up in an MRI yes.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11343862

[jazmunda]

http://news.discovery.com/human/psychology/faith-healing-parents-arrested-over-death-of-second-child-130424.htm

Yes, it should be criminal to not seek appropriate medical treatment for a child.  In this country, though, you get a few dead kid passes, it would seem.  Granted, I think you should have to take a fucking test and get approved to be a parent, but that's a different story.

--

Thank you for sharing that, Onan.  I hope the intended targets read it.

I agree with the parent license thing at times. It's a shame that some unworthy people (IMO) can have babies so easily and then there are those that are truly deserving (IMHO) but have such difficulty. God is such a dick at times (IMAO). Test of faith? Ha!

IMAO = In My Atheist Opnion

[grano salis]

I am saying there are structural differences that show up in an MRI yes.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11343862

No doubt, but ventriculomegaly and diminished brain volume/ cortical atrophy are not specific to schizophrenia and will not specify that diagnosis.   These are initial findings which may be seen in any number of dementias. Progressive analysis  of cortical atrophy and functional MRI may be of  (eventual) diagnostic value and treatment benefit, but these are results evaluated over time, not available in an initial ER visit.

[grano salis]

I am saying there are structural differences that show up in an MRI yes.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11343862

BTW- Shenton's work is now 12 years old and hardly state of the art.

[onan]

No doubt, but ventriculomegaly and diminished brain volume/ cortical atrophy are not specific to schizophrenia and will not specify that diagnosis.   These are initial findings which may be seen in any number of dementias. Progressive analysis  of cortical atrophy and functional MRI may be of  (eventual) diagnostic value and treatment benefit, but these are results evaluated over time, not available in an initial ER visit.

but any qualified medical professional would do an MRI if available to check for any abnormalities when presented with abnormal behaviors, especially escalating behaviors. What is your point?

[grano salis]

but any qualified medical professional would do an MRI if available to check for any abnormalities when presented with abnormal behaviors, especially escalating behaviors. What is your point?

My point is that up to 30% of abnormal behaviors may be attributed to an organic cause, such as -but not exclusive to-: an astrocytoma (common brain tumor), cerebral findings in child abuse, cerebral infarction -chronic or acute -, encephalitis/meningitis, or extra axial hematomas --which allow for triage and referral in an ER setting. (and is one of the basic reason an MRI or CT is performed) 

The non specific structural findings associated with schizophrenia  (and other  chronic dementias) would not allow a diagnostician to make that SPECIFIC diagnosis based upon a single cross sectional imaging study performed in an ER, that's all.

[onan]

My point is that up to 30% of abnormal behaviors may be attributed to an organic cause, such as -but not exclusive to-: an astrocytoma (common brain tumor), cerebral findings in child abuse, cerebral infarction -chronic or acute -, encephalitis/meningitis, or extra axial hematomas --which allow for triage and referral in an ER setting. (and is one of the basic reason an MRI or CT is performed) 

The non specific structural findings associated with schizophrenia  (and other  chronic dementias) would not allow a diagnostician to make that SPECIFIC diagnosis based upon a single cross sectional imaging study performed in an ER, that's all.

I completely agree with you. But, I wasn't the person making the diagnosis and it wasn't made on the spur of the moment. Certainly the presentation alone was compelling. But as you are probably well aware rule outs are always part of the equation. It was 2 doctors that treated him for several weeks inpatient and several months of out patient. All of that combined added to the diagnosis.

[West of the Rockies]

I'm feeling very inadequate now...  All this neuro-sciencey stuff is making me feel like I didn't study for the big math test in 3rd period (and like I showed up in my jammies).

[onan]

I'm feeling very inadequate now...  All this neuro-sciencey stuff is making me feel like I didn't study for the big math test in 3rd period (and like I showed up in my jammies).

Just nod in agreement and ask to clarify doses... it is what I do.

[Juan]

I'm feeling very inadequate now...  All this neuro-sciencey stuff is making me feel like I didn't study for the big math test in 3rd period (and like I showed up in my jammies).

They just mean that the child has a demon. Lots of fancy language for it.

[West of the Rockies]

They just mean that the child has a demon. Lots of fancy language for it.

Oh, thanks, UFOFill -- cue The Omen theme song.

[grano salis]

I completely agree with you. But, I wasn't the person making the diagnosis and it wasn't made on the spur of the moment. Certainly the presentation alone was compelling. But as you are probably well aware rule outs are always part of the equation. It was 2 doctors that treated him for several weeks inpatient and several months of out patient. All of that combined added to the diagnosis.

Thank you.  The Europeans, esp the Finns and Scots are way ahead of us in my opinion in functional MRI evaluation of psychoses.  I agree with you other wise in your opinion about "faith healers" and other such cult like behavior.  I  was very upset when a local conservative talk show host advocated parents taking their kids out of a fine local children's hospital to give the child unspecified at home organic treatments for a congenital bowel disorder.  (You are a sweetie BTW, Onan.)

[grano salis]

I'm feeling very inadequate now...  All this neuro-sciencey stuff is making me feel like I didn't study for the big math test in 3rd period (and like I showed up in my jammies).

Actually, I have a recurring dream, (nightmare)about missing the big math test in school, and  I haven't been subject to math tests for decades--neurotic perhaps...

[West of the Rockies]

Actually, I have a recurring dream, (nightmare)about missing the big math test in school, and  I haven't been subject to math tests for decades--neurotic perhaps...

Fer sure...  I had dreams for decades where I came home from school only to discover the entire front yard filled with newspapers that had to be folded, rubber-banded and delivered.  The route manager was there demanding to know why I had not been delivering papers for the last twenty years.  Same scenario for a college radio program I used to do:  years after I quit I had dreams where I'd receive a phonecall from the station manager wanting to know if I intended to have dead air for my program, a situation -- in the dreams -- that had evidently been going on for years. 

Must be feelings of inadequacy, of failing to meet responsibilities, yes?

[grano salis]

Fer sure...  I had dreams for decades where I came home from school only to discover the entire front yard filled with newspapers that had to be folded, rubber-banded and delivered.  The route manager was there demanding to know why I had not been delivering papers for the last twenty years.  Same scenario for a college radio program I used to do:  years after I quit I had dreams where I'd receive a phonecall from the station manager wanting to know if I intended to have dead air for my program, a situation -- in the dreams -- that had evidently been going on for years. 

Must be feelings of inadequacy, of failing to meet responsibilities, yes?

Absolutely!  Fear of failure, inability to  meet impending challanges, please (bosses/ family) or execute daily duties.  Freud and Jung would love this stuff...

[ItsOver]

They just mean that the child has a demon. Lots of fancy language for it.

LOL.

[MV/Liberace!]

[area51drone]

MV, I think it's more like:


South Park -Lord Lord Lord