So who will be the Republican nominees for President and Vice President in 2016?

[BigDave]

I have a feeling it will be Marco Rubio with South Carolina Governor Nikki Haley as Vice Presidential candidate. They would,IMO,have a good chance of beating Hillary Clinton or Joe Biden.

[PB the Deplorable]

I have a feeling it will be Marco Rubio with South Carolina Governor Nikki Haley as Vice Presidential candidate. They would,IMO,have a good chance of beating Hillary Clinton or Joe Biden.

Will it shock anyone - anyone - when the D's insist Rubio isn't eligible because he wasn't born to two parents that were US citizens at the time, and for the Media to begin a campaign to convince everyone he is thus not a 'Natural Born Citizen'?

And what about Nikki Haley - were her parents US citizens at the time of her birth?

I guarantee the shameless Left will pound away on this, get court injunctions, have various states disallow them on ballots, etc.  Absolutely guarantee it.

[PhantasticSanShiSan]

Will it shock anyone - anyone - when the D's insist Rubio isn't eligible because he wasn't born to two parents that were US citizens at the time, and for the Media to begin a campaign to convince everyone he is thus not a 'Natural Born Citizen'?

And what about Nikki Haley - were her parents US citizens at the time of her birth?

I guarantee the shameless Left will pound away on this, get court injunctions, have various states disallow them on ballots, etc.  Absolutely guarantee it.

I wouldn't put anything past those pansy ass commie white knights.

P.S. - I just hope they put in ANYBODY who can beat a dem.

[onan]

Will it shock anyone - anyone - when the D's insist Rubio isn't eligible because he wasn't born to two parents that were US citizens at the time, and for the Media to begin a campaign to convince everyone he is thus not a 'Natural Born Citizen'?

And what about Nikki Haley - were her parents US citizens at the time of her birth?

I guarantee the shameless Left will pound away on this, get court injunctions, have various states disallow them on ballots, etc.  Absolutely guarantee it.

Why isn't the right's questioning of Obama's birth shameless, yet speculation alone is enough to call the left shameless?


I know tit for tat is a pointless game. No one gets anything but pissed off and more entrenched in how much more suffering their side has.


And to answer who will be nominated? I am guessing it will be someone more moderate than Romney's version of moderate. Anything else will most likely again be rejected.

[The General]

A robotic Cyber Reagan with whatever token hispanic Republican of the day as VP.


What does it matter,
Bush ruined the Republican brand
for 40 years to come.

[analog kid]

Will it shock anyone - anyone - when the D's insist Rubio isn't eligible because he wasn't born to two parents that were US citizens at the time, and for the Media to begin a campaign to convince everyone he is thus not a 'Natural Born Citizen'?

Romney's parents fit this description but I don't remember the media making hay of it.

[PB the Deplorable]

Why isn't the right's questioning of Obama's birth shameless, yet speculation alone is enough to call the left shameless?...

It is proper to point out Obama is not a Natural Born Citizen - regardless of where he was born (and that's an issue for another thead) - then say after 8 years that obviously the rules have been changed and insist they apply to everyone.  That is not hypocracy or conflicting.

And after 8 years the rules have been changed - the definition of who a Natural Born Citizen is was murky to the people that wanted it to be murky in order to allow Obama to run and be sworn in.  We as a nation have now determined the definition of Natural Born Citizen is any person who was born in the US., instead of a person born to 2 US citizens.

We shouldn't have one set for candidates of the hard Left, and one set for everyone else, but look for the Democrats and Big Media to develope amnesia and want to back to following the law as it was originally intended. 

Tell you what though.  Get rid of Obama today, void his laws and appointments, and I'll agree Rubio, Jindal, possibly Haley and Ted Cruz don't qualify (interesting how many hard working people that believe in the American dream have seats at the table in the R Party).

... And to answer who will be nominated? I am guessing it will be someone more moderate than Romney's version of moderate. Anything else will most likely again be rejected.

We need someone to articulate Conservatism, personal Liberty, the importance of property rights and free enterprise, how unwise regulations hurt the economy, how certain taxes are worse than others regarding business and jobs, why people should be responsible for themselves first rather than look to the government first, what our priorities should be vs the priorities of the entrenched bureaucracy, etc.

People like Dole and the Bushes and McCain and Romney and Chris Christy either can't do that, don't believe in it, or think they have a better chance of winning by not being 'controversial'.  Or are Globalists and don't really belong in the R Party at all. The only R that can win easily is a Conservative that can speak well and is willing to do so, like a Reagan.

[BigDave]

It is proper to point out Obama is not a Natural Born Citizen - regardless of where he was born (and that's an issue for another thead) - then say after 8 years that obviously the rules have been changed and insist they apply to everyone.  That is not hypocracy or conflicting.

And after 8 years the rules have been changed - the definition of who a Natural Born Citizen is was murky to the people that wanted it to be murky in order to allow Obama to run and be sworn in.  We as a nation have now determined the definition of Natural Born Citizen is any person who was born in the US., instead of a person born to 2 US citizens.

We shouldn't have one set for candidates of the hard Left, and one set for everyone else, but look for the Democrats and Big Media to develope amnesia and want to back to following the law as it was originally intended. 

Tell you what though.  Get rid of Obama today, void his laws and appointments, and I'll agree Rubio, Jindal, possibly Haley and Ted Cruz don't qualify (interesting how many hard working people that believe in the American dream have seats at the table in the R Party).

 
We need someone to articulate Conservatism, personal Liberty, the importance of property rights and free enterprise, how unwise regulations hurt the economy, how certain taxes are worse than others regarding business and jobs, why people should be responsible for themselves first rather than look to the government first, what our priorities should be vs the priorities of the entrenched bureaucracy, etc.

People like Dole and the Bushes and McCain and Romney and Chris Christy either can't do that, don't believe in it, or think they have a better chance of winning by not being 'controversial'.  Or are Globalists and don't really belong in the R Party at all. The only R that can win easily is a Conservative that can speak well and is willing to do so, like a Reagan.

If it is another milquetoast Liberal Republican type,the Conservatives will leave the Party. I'd like a US Conservative Party in the US in the future. It would be a great place for Conservatives(like Me)

[PB the Deplorable]

If it is another milquetoast Liberal Republican type,the Conservatives will leave the Party. I'd like a US Conservative Party in the US in the future. It would be a great place for Conservatives(like Me)

May as well set it up now - look who's in the R leadership in the House and Senate now and what they are doing.  The Conservatives aren't getting anywhere, but they get the blame when the Establishment R's policies and strategies fail (for example check how many people think Romney should have been MORE 'Moderate'/mealy mouthed).

It that's not enough, Jeb Bush is making noises about running - he thinks by 2016 everyone will have forgotten how awful W was and the taint on the Bush 'brand' will be gone.

[BigDave]

May as well set it up now - look who's in the R leadership in the House and Senate now and what they are doing.  The Conservatives aren't getting anywhere, but they get the blame when the Establishment R's policies and strategies fail (check how many people think Romney should have been MORE 'Moderate'/mealy mouthed).

It that's not enough, Jeb Bush is making noises about running - he thinks by 2016 everyone will have forgotten how awful W was and the taint on the Bush 'brand' will be gone.

Jeb has zero chance to get elected in 2016,the GW Bush taint is on  Him.

[PB the Deplorable]

Romney's parents fit this description but I don't remember the media making hay of it.

I'm not sure what you mean.  Weren't Romney's parents Natural Born Citizens when he was born (both US citizens)?  Obama's father wasn't.  My expectation is that the Democrats will ignore Obama's usurpation and insist Rubio and Jindal aren't eligilbe to run because thier parents weren't when they were born.

Even in 2008 they ignored Obama's ineligibilty and questioned McCain's (he was born in the Panama Canal Zone when his father was stationed there by the military).  Like I said, shameless.

[The General]

I'm not sure what you mean.  Weren't Romney's parents Natural Born Citizens when he was born (both US citizens)?  Obama's father wasn't.  My expectation is that the Democrats will ignore Obama's usurpation and insist Rubio and Jindal aren't eligilbe to run because thier parents weren't when they were born.

Even in 2008 they ignored Obama's ineligibilty and questioned McCain's (he was born in the Panama Canal Zone when his father was stationed there by the military).  Like I said, shameless.

Obama couldn't pass a background check to work at the TSA, yet there he is in the White House. 

[HAL 9000]

Rather than pick out quotes via our new "insert quote" feature, I'll just make a toast by raising a quart of fine ale to my fellow patriot conservative brethren and say, "Here here!"

      

[analog kid]

I'm not sure what you mean.  Weren't Romney's parents Natural Born Citizens when he was born (both US citizens)?  Obama's father wasn't.  My expectation is that the Democrats will ignore Obama's usurpation and insist Rubio and Jindal aren't eligilbe to run because thier parents weren't when they were born.

Even in 2008 they ignored Obama's ineligibilty and questioned McCain's (he was born in the Panama Canal Zone when his father was stationed there by the military).  Like I said, shameless.

I'm pretty sure Mitt's dad was born in Mexico, and was a citizen until his family fled from there. Doesn't matter; don't care.

[somatichypermutation]

Actually Rubio and Obama were born in America and thus are likely natural born citizens, ironically McCain is the one who was not natural born, McCain was born in the canal zone.

[The General]

Actually Rubio and Obama were born in America and thus are likely natural born citizens, ironically McCain is the one who was not natural born, McCain was born in the canal zone.

Obama's grandma would disagree with you there.  I think she might know more about it than you.

[PB the Deplorable]

I'm pretty sure Mitt's dad was born in Mexico, and was a citizen until his family fled from there. Doesn't matter; don't care.

Mitt's mother was born in the US, his father was born in Mexico to US citizens and was always a US citizen himself.

Obama's reported father was a foreign student.  One fron the Third World who hated the British colonialists and the West in general.  The whole reason for this eligibility clause in the Constitution was to try to screen out people that had allegence to foreign countries or harbored a grudge towards the US based on those sympathies.  If followed it would have worked as anticipated and properly screened out Obama, who doesn't seem to like the US the way it is - all our wealth, freedom, opportunity, strength, and what not.

'Fundamentally transform America', 'spread the wealth around', 'you didn't build that (small business)', the talk about sticking it to 'millionaires and billionaires' when he really means all of us, 'the 1%'ers', taking several giant steps towards fully socializing our medical system, always always talking about 'class' and trying to pit the different 'classes' against each other, on and on.  The many comments suggesting the government is superior to the private sector, the obvious distrust of our system of free exchange.  Obama has shown no regard for our Constitution or laws when it gets in the way of what he wants.  This is not what America is about, Obama is not one of us.

The Founders were very wise.  We used to study them and be more informed about their writings.  Until the Left seized control of the schools through the teachers unions.

[somatichypermutation]

Obama's grandma would disagree with you there.  I think she might know more about it than you.

W
rong kimosabi. Facts  about grandma interview

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2011/apr/07/donald-trump/donald-trump-says-president-obamas-grandmother-cau/

[PB the Deplorable]

Actually Rubio and Obama were born in America and thus are likely natural born citizens, ironically McCain is the one who was not natural born, McCain was born in the canal zone.

That would be a Native Born Citizen.   See earlier post for definition of Natural Born Citizen - born to 2 US citizen parents in the US (with certain exceptions such as parents out of the country on diplomatic or military assignment at time of birth).  None of this is really arguable. 

By the way, Obama - and even Mrs Obama - claimed for years that he was born in Kenya, they used it as part of their campaigns.  When he decided he needed to claim a US birth, he claimed birth in 2 different hospitals in Hawaii.  Who - other than someone who is lying - gets that wrong?

He couldn't or wouldn't produce a birth certificate, when he finally did it was a forgery - it didn't fall into the number range of other kids born at the hospital the days around the time he claimed to, and it was clearly created on Word software - which of course wasn't used in the early 60's.  Just saying forgery was 'debunked' doesn't make it so.

I don't know where he was or wasn't born, I do know there is either no US birth certificate or one with information he doesn't want released.  Either way, being born to a foreign student father disqualifies him and his place of birth is moot.

[somatichypermutation]

Paper boy

Give me links to real websites like politifact that support your suppositions, not right or left wing nutball sites.

[Yorkshire pud]

We shouldn't have one set for candidates of the hard Left, and one set for everyone else,

I keep trying to tell you, although you choose to disregard it; you don't have and never have had left let alone 'hard left' politics in the USA. The nearest you've had to 'left leaning' was with the indiginous natives before the white man thought it a good idea to exterminate them from their own land. Unless you understand what left is in the political arena, you won't be able to compare it with right. I suppose you won't though.

[somatichypermutation]

Paper boy

Also, I am an attorney.  I do not believe any court has defined natural born and it is unlikely to be more stringent than native born.

[Pragmier]

People like Dole and the Bushes and McCain and Romney and Chris Christy either can't do that, don't believe in it, or think they have a better chance of winning by not being 'controversial'. 

I don't think Christy belongs in the play-it-safe category. Anyhow, he's the most popular politician in the country and would win going away if the election were held today. I like the guy's candor even if I disagree with some of his positions. Can't stand Rubio, he's more Romneyish - as in no backbone.

And to the Obama birther types, the Reps are in on this also. In fact EVERYONE is in on it, including the Supreme Court. Except for Limbaugh and Trump. They know the "truth".

[somatichypermutation]

i could not help but notice Jeb Bush took on Rubio recently, claiming he had not yet accomplished anything legislatively.  Could that presage a Bush run?

[Juan]

As someone who remembers air travel in 1961, I find the idea that Obama was born in Kenya absurd. While we had jet passenger aircraft that could fly at speeds comparable to today's aircraft, the range was much shorter.  A trip from Kenya to Hawaii would have taken many days with many stops and layovers.  I just don't see a pregnant woman making that trip, nor a woman and new born making the trip back.

I thought the natural born citizen business was inserted to keep Alexander Hamilton from becoming  president.  The term could not have originally meant born in the US to two US citizens - else, George Washington, John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, James Monroe, etc. could not have been president.

As I understand it, that natural born citizen interpretation comes in dicta in a Supreme Court case a hundred years or so ago. SH, if you're an attorney, I'm surprised you're not familiar with it.  There have been several challenges to Obama's appearing on the ballot citing the case, but all those arguments were rejected at the state level.  Plus, we have the 14th amendment saying all citizens born in the US are citizens and entitled to all rights.  Rubio and Haley were both born in the US, as was Jindal, so I can't imagine them being excluded.  The interesting one would be Ted Cruz, who was born in Canada to mother who was a US citizen.  His father was originally from Cuba, but I don't remember if he was a US citizen at the time.  As for McCain, Congress passed a resolution saying he was eligible to be president.

[PB the Deplorable]

As someone who remembers air travel in 1961, I find the idea that Obama was born in Kenya absurd. While we had jet passenger aircraft that could fly at speeds comparable to today's aircraft, the range was much shorter.  A trip from Kenya to Hawaii would have taken many days with many stops and layovers.  I just don't see a pregnant woman making that trip, nor a woman and new born making the trip back.

I thought the natural born citizen business was inserted to keep Alexander Hamilton from becoming  president.  The term could not have originally meant born in the US to two US citizens - else, George Washington, John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, James Monroe, etc. could not have been president.

As I understand it, that natural born citizen interpretation comes in dicta in a Supreme Court case a hundred years or so ago. SH, if you're an attorney, I'm surprised you're not familiar with it.  There have been several challenges to Obama's appearing on the ballot citing the case, but all those arguments were rejected at the state level.  Plus, we have the 14th amendment saying all citizens born in the US are citizens and entitled to all rights.  Rubio and Haley were both born in the US, as was Jindal, so I can't imagine them being excluded.  The interesting one would be Ted Cruz, who was born in Canada to mother who was a US citizen.  His father was originally from Cuba, but I don't remember if he was a US citizen at the time.  As for McCain, Congress passed a resolution saying he was eligible to be president.

When someone - certainly a President - appears to be hiding something, people get real curious.  Would love to see the real Birth Cert., or at least something not generated on Word in the White House basement.last year.  We don't know the timeline of where he was or when.  He may be older or younger than claimed, or had a different father than Barack Obama Sr., or some other anomaly   We don't know because he refuses to release records other presidential candidates routinely release.  So the question becomes why, and speculation runs the gamit.  Obama is to blame for this, not 'birthers' or anyone else.

The Natural Born clause (Sec 1, Article 2) in the Constitution reads:

"No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty-five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States."

So a person that was a citizen at the time the Constitution was adopted was eligible regardless of birth.  Due to the recent birth of the nation, Washington, Adams, Jefferson, etc, and their generation were 'grandfathered' in.  The 'Natural Born' requirement only applied to people that became citizens after the Constitution was adopted, either by naturalization or by birth.

It's not clear how Alexander Hamilton would be excluded by this.


The 14th Amendment Section 1: "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

This does not overrule the Natural Born requirement, it does not give naturalized citizens the same rights as Natural Born Citizens as far as eligibilty to be Pres.




My only point originally was that after seating a candidate with very dubious eligibility in Obama, watch for the Left and the D's to try to exclude some of the rising stars in the R party on the same grounds they now argue the other side of on his behalf. 

[somatichypermutation]

Wow UFO Fill, so many legal misrepresentations in one post.  Not sure I can take them all on, but the Wiki on this is pretty good: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural-born-citizen_clause

just a couple:  Congress cannot interpret the Constitution, I am sure you know that.

Dicta specifically means the Court is commenting but not ruling or creating precedent, thus what I stated is correct.

[analog kid]

I don't think Christy belongs in the play-it-safe category. Anyhow,he's the most popular politician in the country

Not even remotely true.

[PB the Deplorable]

Not even remotely true.

I agree.  He blew it with a lot of R's when he went campaigning with Obama days before the election.  Before that a lot of people didn't know him very well but liked a little of what they heard - his tough talk and spending cuts.  No longer - that's just not enough from him now.

The D's aren't going to vote for him. 

My guess is it would go the way McCain's deal went - the media will faun all over him hoping he runs and helping him in the primaries, then trash him in the general (if he even got that far).   The Independents wouldn't see anything worth bothering to vote for and plenty of R's would stay home.

That's probably Jeb's fate as well.  And he's def running. 

[Pragmier]

It doesn't sound

not even remotely true

to PPP pollsters:

http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/2013/01/clinton-could-be-unstoppable-if-she-runs-in-2016.html

Chris Christie would be Clinton’s most threatening opponent in a general election. He trails her by only two points (42/44) in a head-to-head contest, and his overall favorability (+28) is higher than Clinton’s (+15). But she would trounce Jeb Bush, Marco Rubio and Paul Ryan by double-digit margins. Christie is more competitive against Clinton primarily because he is ahead of her by 18 points (47/29) among independents.

Of course Christie trails Rubio among Reps by mid-single digits, and they can throw away another election. The Dems fear Christie more than anyone.