George Knapp's Bob Lazar update

[coaster]

What makes you so sure that Lazar is a scam artist?   The only thing I have seen him sell related to the UFO story is the video he published shortly after his story came out, which I am sure he made very little money on. 

You just answered your own question.

[onan]

So you are admitting you're a liar then, Uncle?

What makes you so sure that Lazar is a scam artist?   The only thing I have seen him sell related to the UFO story is the video he published shortly after his story came out, which I am sure he made very little money on.   That video hasn't been for sale for many many years.   He certainly isn't selling anything UFO related now.  You can't fault the guy for wearing a t-shirt promoting his United Nuclear business, of which I don't believe wasn't even mentioned in the above video, and is only mentioned on radio when he is asked what's going on now or if people want the story about how the government tried to shake the business down.   I don't think Bob Lazar is wealthy by any means. He's also not getting big payouts for public talks nor is he going on the UFO convention circuit like Freidman does.  Freidman lives off this shit.   From what I can tell, Bob makes a truly honest living.

Friedman never tried to sell polonium.

[area51drone]

You just answered your own question.

Not quite.   If he was a true scam artist, he could be playing this for all its worth years and years on.  Look at "Dr. Jonathan Reed."   Now there's a scam artist.   He continues to get as much airtime as he can, and continues to try to sell his story and expand on it.   Similarly, look at Stan Romanek.    Lazar has done nothing close to these people.   He doesn't even begin to touch so many others hawking their "research" books in the name of ufology.   I believe he said in the beginning of the video (from long ago) that he released it to answer questions everyone kept begging him to answer.   It might have also given him a bridge until he started something up or got a different job.   But as far as any of us know, he certainly did not ride the last 20 years on ufology by any sense.

Selling radioactive substances is completely different than selling a UFO book or video.

[onan]

Selling radioactive substances is completely different than selling a UFO book or video.

Yeah, that is true.

[area51drone]

Yeah, that is true.

  I'm sure your answer is sarcastic but it made me laugh anyway

[McPhallus]

How do any of you nay sayers discount that he took witnesses out to watch the craft at a specific times and dates?   

Wasn't one of them John Lear?  His close association with that certified kook is another big red flag.

[Uncle Duke]

So you are admitting you're a liar then, Uncle?

What makes you so sure that Lazar is a scam artist?   The only thing I have seen him sell related to the UFO story is the video he published shortly after his story came out, which I am sure he made very little money on.   That video hasn't been for sale for many many years.   He certainly isn't selling anything UFO related now.  You can't fault the guy for wearing a t-shirt promoting his United Nuclear business, of which I don't believe wasn't even mentioned in the above video, and is only mentioned on radio when he is asked what's going on now or if people want the story about how the government tried to shake the business down.   I don't think Bob Lazar is wealthy by any means. He's also not getting big payouts for public talks nor is he going on the UFO convention circuit like Freidman does.  Freidman lives off this shit.   From what I can tell, Bob makes a truly honest living.

Lied yesterday morning, in fact.  In response to Mrs Duke's question about whether her new outfit made her butt look big, I said "No".  As lies go, it's not up there with making up a fictional life/academic career/employment history or even denying having had sexual relations with that woman, Miss Lewinsky, but a lie none the less.  Of course it's the impact of a lie that's at question here, but you knew that.

As for how little "Bob" gained from his charade, I didn't say he was a particularly good or successful scammer, just that he was a scammer.  I think it's safe to say, however,  he milked his time in the spotlight for all it was worth.  Once it ceased being profitable, he moved on.  Besides, it's not just the scam artists who are affecting the credibility of the field, it's also the delusional nutjobs, the attention seekers, and pranksters.  Equally damaging are the "researchers" who tell those stories without vetting/validating what's claimed.  No wonder most UFO stories wind up at the end of the mainstream newscasts with the smirks and giggles. 

[area51drone]

Lied yesterday morning, in fact.  In response to Mrs Duke's question about whether her new outfit made her butt look big, I said "No".  Of course it's the impact of a lie that's at question here, but you knew that.

Of course I know that, but I also know that telling your wife she looked good isn't the biggest lie you've made in your life, and you know that as well.    Don't paint yourself out to be an angel.

I think it's safe to say, however,  he milked his time in the spotlight for all it was worth.  Once it ceased being profitable, he moved on.

I'm not saying you're wrong necessarily, but what proof do you have of this?   I don't think he was being paid when he went on KLAS as "Dennis" or as Lazar.  I am aware he talked at at least a couple of UFO conferences and sold the video.  That's as far as I know his ufology "business" went.    It appears to me, with the infrequency of his being in the media, that he actually shies away from the spotlight.   I personally would love to hear many more details - anything he can remember.  Smells, textures, descriptions of the surrounding terrain etc.    I'd gladly give the guy $15 for an updated DVD just because whether or not its true, the story is fascinating.   He says in the new interview that he still gets emails daily about it.   He doesn't try to sell them anything, he tells them to go away.

[Jackstar]

I get it now. I see the loathing.

Thanks to all of you for answering my questions. It is appreciated.

[Uncle Duke]

Of course I know that, but I also know that telling your wife she looked good isn't the biggest lie you've made in your life, and you know that as well.    Don't paint yourself out to be an angel.

I'm not saying you're wrong necessarily, but what proof do you have of this?   I don't think he was being paid when he went on KLAS as "Dennis" or as Lazar.  I am aware he talked at at least a couple of UFO conferences and sold the video.  That's as far as I know his ufology "business" went.    It appears to me, with the infrequency of his being in the media, that he actually shies away from the spotlight.   I personally would love to hear many more details - anything he can remember.  Smells, textures, descriptions of the surrounding terrain etc.    I'd gladly give the guy $15 for an updated DVD just because whether or not its true, the story is fascinating.   He says in the new interview that he still gets emails daily about it.   He doesn't try to sell them anything, he tells them to go away.

Never said I was an angel, just answered your question honestly noting I lied just yesterday.  But again, and as you agreed, it's not the lie but the impact of a lie that's important.  What was the impact of Lazar's lies on the credibility of ufology?  Smirks and giggles, smirks and giggles....

Based on your comments on how little money he made, sounds like we agree ol' Bob wasn't a particularly gifted scammer.  And if he currently tells people who contact him about his scam to go away as you state, that just proves my point about him moving on once he made what he could.  More power to him, hope he's making an honest dollar now despite his past.  Regardless of whether he personally made $100 or $100K selling his story to the gullible, however, the damage to the serious study of UFOs was done. 

The most telling of all you comments is whether he's telling the truth or not, you just like the story.  That's fine, hell I had a physics prof years ago who competed both national and internationally in liars'/storytellers' festivals.  The guy was an absolute hoot, but we all knew he was bullshitting and he wasn't trying to be taken seriously. I think that's the difference between us, I do care whether Lazar was being truthful.

[MV/Liberace!]

Exactly what credibility does Friedman have at this point anyway? He was just on, talking with George Noory.

i caught noory introducing friedman the other night as i was driving home from the walmart where i purchase my duck dynasty supplies, and noory referred to friedman as the "father of modern day ufology" and said something about how friedman spent his entire life researching the subject.  i immediately shouted, "so in other words, he's wasted his entire fucking life!!" 

i catch approximately 5 minutes of coast twice per year, and i invariably find myself shouting each time.

[Jackstar]

What was the impact of Lazar's lies on the credibility of ufology?

Far, far less than the lies of many others, both before and since.

I do care whether Lazar was being truthful.

He clearly did not lie about everything.

i immediately shouted, "so in other words, he's wasted his entire fucking life!!" 

i catch approximately 5 minutes of coast twice per year, and i invariably find myself shouting each time.

I KNOW, RIGHT?

[area51drone]

"father of modern day ufology" and said something about how friedman spent his entire life researching the subject.  i immediately shouted, "so in other words, he's wasted his entire fucking life!!" 

hahahahahaaha so true, so true.

[coaster]

i immediately shouted, "so in other words, he's wasted his entire fucking life!!" 

There is money to be made in this ufo bullshit.

[area51drone]

Never said I was an angel, just answered your question honestly noting I lied just yesterday.  But again, and as you agreed, it's not the lie but the impact of a lie that's important.  What was the impact of Lazar's lies on the credibility of ufology?  Smirks and giggles, smirks and giggles....

Let's see.  The real impact of Lazar's comments?  (I call them comments, because neither you nor I know for certain he's lying.)    Hmmm.   Let's see.

1)   The world knows about Area 51 because of Bob,  and it is absolutely certain that I would say that is pretty important in a positive way whether or not what he says is true.   If you disagree, then you must really hate Snowden's guts as well.

2)  There are a bunch of UFO nuts who 100% believe Bob's story and use it as proof that aliens are here.   Which would happen no matter who it is or how credible their stories are - Billy Meier, Stan Romanek, Barney & Betty Hill, Jim Sparks, etc etc.   Life does not change for these people, and they continue to be the fringe crazies that we all laugh at when they call in on Coast.

3)  There are people who take Bob's story and think it's interesting, and don't know for sure he's telling the truth, but it sounds relatively plausible and hope it is.  The video footage and eyewitness testimony raise the probability of it being true to a higher level.  Opinions of ET visitation are buttressed, but the complete bridge is still not there.    I fall into this category.

4)  There are people who are just plain skeptical of everything, and the only proof would be if they saw something with their own eyes.  They do not believe Bob unless he had some tangible proof, and disregard all eyewitness testimony and/or video evidence.    Life does not change for them, except to argue on forums about his so called lies.   I think you, Uncle, probably fall into this category.

5) There are some people who just won't believe anything, even if a craft landed in front of their face and little gray aliens did the MV shuffle across their front lawn.    They don't give two shits about Bob's story, life and their opinions won't change for anything.

Based on your comments on how little money he made, sounds like we agree ol' Bob wasn't a particularly gifted scammer. 

You're putting words into my mouth.  I don't think he's a scammer.

The most telling of all you comments is whether he's telling the truth or not, you just like the story. 

Again, putting words into my mouth.  I both like the story, I lean towards believing it, and I do care that it be the truth; I just have no way of knowing whether or not it is for absolute certain.  I don't think his story makes a negative impact on ufology like you, in fact, I think an average person listening to Bob's story would tend to believe him, which would only help ufology as a whole by creating more believers.

[Jackstar]

Can we get a show of hands? How many of You People think that there is still any question about the very existence of non-human, communicative, mobile, manipulative intelligence?

There is certainly a lot of room for debate over which species is driving which set of unexplained aerial craft. That seems like a reasonable purpose for ufology to occupy itself with.

But debating over Humanity's alleged aloneness in the macrocosm? These are separable issues, and as such, ought best be discussed separately.

[Uncle Duke]

Let's see.  The real impact of Lazar's comments?  (I call them comments, because neither you nor I know for certain he's lying.)    Hmmm.   Let's see.

1)   The world knows about Area 51 because of Bob,  and it is absolutely certain that I would say that is pretty important in a positive way whether or not what he says is true.   If you disagree, then you must really hate Snowden's guts as well.

2)  There are a bunch of UFO nuts who 100% believe Bob's story and use it as proof that aliens are here.   Which would happen no matter who it is or how credible their stories are - Billy Meier, Stan Romanek, Barney & Betty Hill, Jim Sparks, etc etc.   Life does not change for these people, and they continue to be the fringe crazies that we all laugh at when they call in on Coast.

3)  There are people who take Bob's story and think it's interesting, and don't know for sure he's telling the truth, but it sounds relatively plausible and hope it is.  The video footage and eyewitness testimony raise the probability of it being true to a higher level.  Opinions of ET visitation are buttressed, but the complete bridge is still not there.    I fall into this category.

4)  There are people who are just plain skeptical of everything, and the only proof would be if they saw something with their own eyes.  They do not believe Bob unless he had some tangible proof, and disregard all eyewitness testimony and/or video evidence.    Life does not change for them, except to argue on forums about his so called lies.   I think you, Uncle, probably fall into this category.

5) There are some people who just won't believe anything, even if a craft landed in front of their face and little gray aliens did the MV shuffle across their front lawn.    They don't give two shits about Bob's story, life and their opinions won't change for anything.

You're putting words into my mouth.  I don't think he's a scammer.

Again, putting words into my mouth.  I both like the story, I lean towards believing it, and I do care that it be the truth; I just have no way of knowing whether or not it is for absolute certain.  I don't think his story makes a negative impact on ufology like you, in fact, I think an average person listening to Bob's story would tend to believe him, which would only help ufology as a whole by creating more believers.

You're missing the bigger picture here.  Of course some of what Lazar says is true, but those apsects are true inspite of him.  For example, there is in fact an air base in Nevada where testing of classified aircraft has gone on since the 50s.  The existence of that base had been an open secret long before Lazar came forward, certainly it was known to the locals, the Nellis community, and even serious aviation enthusiasts.  It was/is what specifially goes on there that is at question, not whether the base existed/exists. Lazar may have called attention to the facility, but he could have known of the base without ever having gone within a hundred miles of the place, let alone having worked there in the capacity he claimed.

Conversely, we know he lied about many aspects of his story including his education and his job.  Only a moron would believe "they" could erase a man's history, making him in effect a non-person.  I went to engineering school almost forty years ago, but I can still name countless professors, staff and classmates.  Perheps more importantly they can identify me and confirm where and when I went to school.  The same applies to my time at NASA and with the DoD.  Many of the people who can confirm my employment may not know exactly what I worked on, but they can verify I did work where/when I worked.

Individual UFO claims should be judged on their own merits, along with the people who tell them.  Sure, some like Meier are beyond laughable and deserverdly get the smirk and giggle treatment even from the most ardent UFO believers.  Others, such as Rendelsham and the 2000 sightings around St. Louis, are above reproach. What make Lazar's case unique was the level of publicity it received, only to be see him crash and burn as his crediblity was destroyed.  This was far more damaging to the field than some silly Swiss farmer.

[McPhallus]

Can we get a show of hands? How many of You People think that there is still any question about the very existence of non-human, communicative, mobile, manipulative intelligence?

I'd love to know what "you people" is supposed to signify, since you thought enough about it to capitalize both words.

[wr250]

Only a moron would believe "they" could erase a man's history, making him in effect a non-person.  I went to engineering school almost forty years ago, but I can still name countless professors, staff and classmates.  Perheps more importantly they can identify me and confirm where and when I went to school.  The same applies to my time at NASA and with the DoD.  Many of the people who can confirm my employment may not know exactly what I worked on, but they can verify I did work where/when I worked.

0bama has spent millions to keep his history secret; oh wait, 0bama did it to himself,there is no "they" in this case.

[area51drone]

You're missing the bigger picture here.  Of course some of what Lazar says is true, but those apsects are true inspite of him.  For example, there is in fact an air base in Nevada where testing of classified aircraft has gone on since the 50s.  The existence of that base had been an open secret long before Lazar came forward, certainly it was known to the locals, the Nellis community, and even serious aviation enthusiasts.  It was/is what specifially goes on there that is at question, not whether the base existed/exists. Lazar may have called attention to the facility, but he could have known of the base without ever having gone within a hundred miles of the place, let alone having worked there in the capacity he claimed.

The world knew about Area 51 almost overnight because of Bob.   Just because a few select people knew doesn't mean that this wasn't the biggest impact of his coming forward.

Conversely, we know he lied about many aspects of his story including his education and his job.  Only a moron would believe "they" could erase a man's history, making him in effect a non-person.  I went to engineering school almost forty years ago, but I can still name countless professors, staff and classmates.  Perheps more importantly they can identify me and confirm where and when I went to school.  The same applies to my time at NASA and with the DoD.  Many of the people who can confirm my employment may not know exactly what I worked on, but they can verify I did work where/when I worked.

College was 15+ years ago for me.  I remember only a handful of names of professors and students.  Someone telling me about a few others might ring a bell, but there are plenty of kids in my classes I would not be able to put a name or face to at all.   Just because you remember some people, doesn't mean you remember ALL people.    I'm not disagreeing with you - I think he probably lied about MIT.   But I don't see that keeping the whole story from being true.   You're the one missing the bigger picture here.   I am neutral on his job.  Even Staton agrees that he probably was a contractor for Los Alamos.    Doing what?  Who knows.

Individual UFO claims should be judged on their own merits, along with the people who tell them.  Sure, some like Meier are beyond laughable and deserverdly get the smirk and giggle treatment even from the most ardent UFO believers.  Others, such as Rendelsham and the 2000 sightings around St. Louis, are above reproach. What make Lazar's case unique was the level of publicity it received, only to be see him crash and burn as his crediblity was destroyed.  This was far more damaging to the field than some silly Swiss farmer.

There is only one person that I know of that has doggedly gone after Lazar, and that's Friedman.   Friedman's character assassination attempts on others are well known.   I listen to everyone and draw my own conclusions.  If you want to take Friedman's word as the bible, go for it.   I appreciate that Friedman tried to look up Lazar's past, but that doesn't mean Friedman was extremely thorough, or correct.   It also doesn't mean that he's incorrect, but he definitely has an agenda and I personally do not believe it's just about getting to the truth - it's about being the "grandfather of ufology" as Noory likes to call it.   I don't think Lazar's credibility is completely destroyed by one probable lie about his schooling.   

You continue to ignore this fact - and I'd like you to comment on it - what about the video and eye witness evidence?

[albrecht]

his story including his education and his job.  Only a moron would believe "they" could erase a man's history, making him in effect a non-person.  I went to engineering school almost forty years ago, but I can still name countless professors, staff and classmates.  Perheps more importantly they can identify me and confirm where and when I went to school.  The same applies to my time at NASA and with the DoD.  Many of the people who can confirm my employment may not know exactly what I worked on, but they can verify I did work where/when I worked.

1) certain politicians have been pretty good and covering up their past and not having former girlfriends, friends, professors, school papers, etc from coming out. Recently here, during an election time, it just came out that a candidate had actually legally changed his name decades ago. That could prove your point (it eventually came out) as did his medical records but he was the under-dog candidate and not the mainstream party one.
2) if you attended a large university I could easily see fellow students not remembering you. I had classes with 100+ people in them. Except for friends in same class would a professor, other students, teaching assistants remember me many decades later? Doubt it. If you were a loner, didn't do sports, be in a fraternity, have a lot of friends, take place in school politics or organizations etc it wouldn't surprise me if decades later "nobody" would remember you decades later and even a mid-size or community college- much less a large university.
3) Schools often are barred by law from releasing student information without their consent.
4) Businesses also often would not release details about someone's employment, even with their consent, due to threats of potential lawsuits ("i didn't get the new job because you bad mouthed me").

[area51drone]

1) certain politicians have been pretty good and covering up their past and not having former girlfriends,

LOL, there are girls that I went out with a for a while (months!) and I can't remember their names!

[albrecht]

LOL, there are girls that I went out with a for a while (months!) and I can't remember their names!

and some purposely try to forget!

[aldousburbank]

I'd love to know what "you people" is supposed to signify, since you thought enough about it to capitalize both words.

I think They mean Us.

[Jackstar]

What do you mean, You People?

Haha ha ha. Sorry. Anyway, I thought it was clear from context what my question was. To be fair, I'm not all that curious about the answers, because anyone who is still mystified as to whether humans are alone in the universe or not is right there on the evolutionary ladder along with the ostrich.

Or maybe they just can't read. Six of one, half a dozen of the other. Also, I was completely sincere before: thanks to all for answering my earlier questions. I totally get the Lazar hate now.

[area51drone]

I totally get the Lazar hate now.

I don't.

[Jackstar]

I don't.

To be clear: I understand now why people get their knickers in a twist over Lazar. I don't personally bear hatred towards him; I've never even met him.

[area51drone]

To be clear: I understand now why people get their knickers in a twist over Lazar. I don't personally bear hatred towards him; I've never even met him.

To be clear:  I don't understand why people get their knickers in a twist over Lazar.   So they don't believe him.  So what?   It's as if the world gives a shit about him.  99.9% of the world has never even heard of the guy.  Sure they've heard of Area 51 and aliens, but they don't know who Lazar is.

[Jackstar]

Someone will be along to explain it shortly, I am sure. It was a very subtle point for me to understand as well.

[Uncle Duke]

The world knew about Area 51 almost overnight because of Bob.   Just because a few select people knew doesn't mean that this wasn't the biggest impact of his coming forward.

College was 15+ years ago for me.  I remember only a handful of names of professors and students.  Someone telling me about a few others might ring a bell, but there are plenty of kids in my classes I would not be able to put a name or face to at all.   Just because you remember some people, doesn't mean you remember ALL people.    I'm not disagreeing with you - I think he probably lied about MIT.   But I don't see that keeping the whole story from being true.   You're the one missing the bigger picture here.   I am neutral on his job.  Even Staton agrees that he probably was a contractor for Los Alamos.    Doing what?  Who knows.

There is only one person that I know of that has doggedly gone after Lazar, and that's Friedman.   Friedman's character assassination attempts on others are well known.   I listen to everyone and draw my own conclusions.  If you want to take Friedman's word as the bible, go for it.   I appreciate that Friedman tried to look up Lazar's past, but that doesn't mean Friedman was extremely thorough, or correct.   It also doesn't mean that he's incorrect, but he definitely has an agenda and I personally do not believe it's just about getting to the truth - it's about being the "grandfather of ufology" as Noory likes to call it.   I don't think Lazar's credibility is completely destroyed by one probable lie about his schooling.   

You continue to ignore this fact - and I'd like you to comment on it - what about the video and eye witness evidence?

Obviously we have a difference of opinion on the credibility and integrity of Bob Lazar, however we do agree apparently at least he lied about his education.  I must admit to being surprised at how lightly you take this, I'm sure you are aware that would mean immediate termination in any professional environment.  I take this as an indication of his overall lack of integrity, or perhaps his mental stability.

I was unaware, but I'm not surprised, Friedman has a hard-on for Lazar.  I haven't paid attention to him since attending one of his lectures over 20 years ago.  Friedman is all about Friedman, he turned me off with his attitude.  I have come to the conclusion he is now the cheesy lounge act of ufology, he spends what little air time he gets personally attacking others who disagree with him.  Sadly, he's almost pathetic.

As for witnesses and video of craft over/around Area 51, I have no doubt both exist.  Why would that surprise anyone?  This is another aspect of Lazar's story that is true inspite of him.  As I said before, experimental and classified aircraft have been flying there for decades. People have been reporting aircraft from Area 51 as UFOs at least since the 50s.  From personal experience, I can tell you there was some seriously weird shit out there in my day.  None of it was from another world, but I can readily believe some people might have thought they were.  Someone who actually worked there would know better, however.

Just to claify, I don't hate or loath Lazer. I posted here only because he was a topic of discussion, my opinion is as valid as anyone who believes him.  If I had to pick a word to describe my feelings for him, I'd use "disgust" or "pity".  The former if he knowingly scammed as I believe, the latter if he really believes his own story.