The Other Side of Midnight - Richard C. Hoagland - Live Chat Thread

[21st Century Man]

So, as a property owner you'd be willing to clean and maintain the sewer system surrounding your house, pave your own roads, run your own local hospital? Come on! Are you self-sufficient or not? Can't you do it all yourself?! 

That is what sales taxes are for.  Many states get by with only 2 forms of taxation.  Sales tax revenue makes up for the loss.  Take Tennessee for example.  They have no income tax for salaries and wages and they are doing fine.  Texas and Florida have similar laws. You obviously don't see property taxes as morally reprehensible.  You and I have different ideas about government. Probably the reason that you were a Democrat in the past.  I'm not saying that as an insult just as a fact.  I've never been a Democrat and never will be. 

[21st Century Man]

From what I've seen of northern roads over the last 10 years, they are in absolutely shitty condition for the most part.  How does it feel to know you pay all those taxes and your state governments do not improve your roads?

[ShayP]

Ugh.  I can't deal with this show tonight.  Maybe tomorrow will be better.  Until then...take care braapsters. 

[21st Century Man]

Ugh.  I can't deal with this show tonight.  Maybe tomorrow will be better.  Until then...take care braapsters. 

G'night Shay.  I'm probably leaving soon as well.

[CronkitesGhost]

OMG the tragedy, Dave from the cube satellite project has cluster headaches from a fall. He needs our help people!

[Dyna-X]

I'm out for the night as well. Goodnight all!

[21st Century Man]

Never heard this song from Duran Duran.  They were a good band and still occasionally put out a good song.  This is an old song but not from the band's prime years.  I love it though.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MK1g5dMYR3s

[WOTR]

Agreed.  The property taxes here are ridiculous.   

That is the point.  If you only paid them when you bought them, you would have to pay twenty years worth at once.  Compound the annual increase, and you would have to probably pay a 200% tax on your property (you would be paying the expected inflated dollar rate of 2030 using today's dollars...)

[CronkitesGhost]

Not surprised but Hoagie is an unabashed Marxist - a beggar more or less. In his world society would support him freeing him to pursue his quack science dreams.

[21st Century Man]

That is the point.  If you only paid them when you bought them, you would have to pay twenty years worth at once.  Compound the annual increase, and you would have to probably pay a 200% tax on your property (you would be paying the expected inflated dollar rate of 2030 using today's dollars...)

No, no, no.  You pay a flat 15% and make up the rest of the revenue in sales and income taxes (preferably just sales).  People shouldn't be charged exorbitantly and many people inherit property anyway.  There is no reason that a person should pay taxes for property for their whole life.  People grow old and can't afford the property tax bill after they retire.

[Dr. MD MD]

That is what sales taxes are for.  Many states get by with only 2 forms of taxation.  Sales tax revenue makes up for the loss.  Take Tennessee for example.  They have no income tax for salaries and wages and they are doing fine.  Texas and Florida have similar laws. You obviously don't see property taxes as morally reprehensible.  You and I have different ideas about government. Probably the reason that you were a Democrat in the past.  I'm not saying that as an insult just as a fact.  I've never been a Democrat and never will be.

I think they're often too high and that there should be a way for residents to have more say in what is done with that tax money but the idea of property tax in itself doesn't strike me as particularly morally reprehensible. I'd say that could be a result of how they're enacted and enforced though.

[Dr. MD MD]

Not surprised but Hoagie is an unabashed Marxist - a beggar more or less. In his world society would support him freeing him to pursue his quack science dreams.

Yeah, he naively thinks doctors will be motivated to be doctors by a "living wage." Dream on, buddy! 

[GravitySucks]

No, no, no.  You pay a flat 15% and make up the rest of the revenue in sales and income taxes (preferably just sales).  People shouldn't be charged exorbitantly and many people inherit property anyway.  There is no reason that a person should pay taxes for property for their whole life.  People grow old and can't afford the property tax bill after they retire.

Texas has high property taxes but once you reach a certain age they freeze the valuation and exempt you from school taxes which, depending on the county, can be over 50% of the property taxes.

[=Schlyder=]

Yeah, he naively thinks doctors will be motivated to be doctors by a "living wage." Dream on, buddy! 

yes these mental giants think everyone is going to bust their ass out of the goodness of their hearts  LOL

[21st Century Man]

I think they're often too high and that there should be a way for residents to have more say in what is done with that tax money but the idea of property tax in itself doesn't strike me as particularly morally reprehensible. I'd say that could be a result of how they're enacted and enforced though.

I'm for anything that keeps the government accountable.  Your average citizen has no idea what his property taxes are going for.  In many states, you can at least vote for an increase in sales tax for a specific project.  You know what they are using the money for. We just have a vague idea what our property tax money is spent on.

[21st Century Man]

Texas has high property taxes but once you reach a certain age they freeze the valuation and exempt you from school taxes which, depending on the county, can be over 50% of the property taxes.

That is better than most states.  In many states, the education system is broken.  Kids aren't getting the education that used to be the norm.  It galls me to no end that we spend an exorbitant amount of money for failed systems.  The county I live in has a better system than most so the frustration is kept to a minimum. The inner city systems are horrible.  They don't deserve a red cent.

[21st Century Man]

Yeah, he naively thinks doctors will be motivated to be doctors by a "living wage." Dream on, buddy! 

Hoagie lives in some sort of dreamland.  You spend 12 years studying to make $50,000 a year.  I don't think so.  Fewer people will become doctors if their wages are capped at a low level.  People want to live well.  They are not going to flock to a profession solely because they yearn to help people.

[21st Century Man]

Peter from the Brady Bunch is going to be on tomorrow night?  WTF!! Oh geez, just when you think the show can't go any lower. :

[21st Century Man]

G'night all.  Sorry for my property tax diatribe.

[WOTR]

Texas has high property taxes but once you reach a certain age they freeze the valuation and exempt you from school taxes which, depending on the county, can be over 50% of the property taxes.

That seems to make sense.  We have a portion of property taxes go to the province, and the other portion is municipal / education.  Without the ability to tax property, I do not really know what a city would do (aside from the 300 individual fees that I pay for water, sewer, garbage collection, compost collection, recycling collection, truck registration, use fees...)

A part of me sees the necessity of a city being able to collect some revenue- the other part of me finds that they are damn greedy and completely unrealistic.  They actually did a survey last year to see if "the majority of residents would like to have more services (to justify raising taxes) or if people were at their breaking point."  They found roughly a 50 / 50 split.  I guess grandma is going to have to cough up more money for the 50% of younger residents who can afford more taxes to build a better bus route and expand green initiatives.  :

***Capping a residents taxes when they hit 65 seems to make sense.  If the younger generation "wants" higher taxes to build more rec centers, let them pay for it rather than impacting a 95 year old just trying to stay in their house.

[Dr. MD MD]

Hoagie lives in some sort of dreamland.  You spend 12 years studying to make $50,000 a year.  I don't think so.  Fewer people will become doctors if their wages are capped at a low level.  People want to live well.  They are not going to flock to a profession solely because they yearn to help people.

Yes, we are complex creatures. We're (most of us) both greedy and self-centered and compassionate and altruistic. It's both/and with us, not either/or. Doctors are just people too, with all the same inherent weaknesses as anyone else. Some I've met are perhaps more to one extreme or the other. Some are really egocentric and rude and probably shouldn't be dealing with the public and others volunteer on a regular basis to fly to some 3rd world shithole to help the people there just cuz. Most are mix of the two though. Even the ones who volunteer a lot still want a nice house or apartment to come home to when they're done. 

[PaulAtreides]

Oh, poor Hoagie! He's a just a victim of the free market. Of course he'd prefer we had no choice but to listen to him by government mandate.  :

Better Hoagie than the TrumpShit that comes out of Heather Wade's mouth.

[PaulAtreides]

Yeah, he naively thinks doctors will be motivated to be doctors by a "living wage." Dream on, buddy! 

That's because Hoagie has been existing on a "living wage" for many years.  Ever since Cronkite fired his ass.

[GravitySucks]

That seems to make sense.  We have a portion of property taxes go to the province, and the other portion is municipal / education.  Without the ability to tax property, I do not really know what a city would do (aside from the 300 individual fees that I pay for water, sewer, garbage collection, compost collection, recycling collection, truck registration, use fees...)

A part of me sees the necessity of a city being able to collect some revenue- the other part of me finds that they are damn greedy and completely unrealistic.  They actually did a survey last year to see if "the majority of residents would like to have more services (to justify raising taxes) or if people were at their breaking point."  They found roughly a 50 / 50 split.  I guess grandma is going to have to cough up more money for the 50% of younger residents who can afford more taxes to build a better bus route and expand green initiatives.  :

***Capping a residents taxes when they hit 65 seems to make sense.  If the younger generation "wants" higher taxes to build more rec centers, let them pay for it rather than impacting a 95 year old just trying to stay in their house.

We don't have a state income tax. State and county and school districts are funded primarily through property taxes and cities are funded through sales taxes. It is bizarre that each city has a different tax rate.  There is a base state rate of 6.25% and. Then a city rate on top of that. My town is 1.875%. Some are less.

That leads to every city wanting to have shopping malls and large box stores. Most of which are now under occupied.

Small towns used to try and make money with traffic fines, but the state stepped in to curb speed trap towns. If traffic fines if more than a percentage of a town's budget the funds go to the state.

Rural areas are generally older in population, so school districts can suffer, but the state steps in and redirects some money from large, wealthy school districts to poorer ones. But I believe that school district quality does more to influence housing prices than any other single attribute here in Texas. Luckily, my school district is one of the better ones in the state. Mainly because the NASA community around JSC demanded it by getting involved in the school board and local politics. 

[ItsOver]

Tuned into The Hoagster last night for the first time since he's been back.  His guests sucked but he sounded pretty good to me.

[Juan]

Last night's show was US politics in a microcosm. One guest wanted absolute freedom, the second was unable to form a coherent thought - she could only spout her feels - and the host wants to be world dictator and doesn't realize ithat's what he advocates.

[ItsOver]

...and the host wants to be world dictator and doesn't realize ithat's what he advocates.

Ha!  Hoagie as The Supreme Leader.  He'll be fortunate to maintain OSOM.



"I am your Overlord!  Bow before me and see what I tell you to see!"

[Nobody]

Peter from the Brady Bunch is going to be on tomorrow night?  WTF!!

I may have my names confused, but I don't think we're going to be hearing from Peter Brady on Hoagland's show tonight/tomorrow. 

Christopher Knight is the former child actor who played Peter Brady; Christopher Knowles' job description is that of "comic book critic."

It's the latter whom Hoagland has booked as a guest.  Knowles has been on the show before telling the audience how The Avengers was based on a true story in the same way that Hoagland phantasises John Carter is a documentary.   This time around, Knowles will be performing the same routine with Wonder Woman.

Comic book fans rejoice.

[Nobody]

Last night's show was US politics in a microcosm. One guest wanted absolute freedom, the second was unable to form a coherent thought - she could only spout her feels -

That inability you mention is probably why Hoagland insists on having her as a guest every other show; they have a lot in common when it comes to incoherency. 

If Georgia Lambert ever had a career as a teacher of "Meditation and Esoteric Physiology*," her students must have been too whacked out on drugs to take a blind bit of notice of what she had to say.




*No, I don't know what that means, either.

[Étouffée]

"Peters" Who Would Make Interesting Guests for Hoagie:

Peter Ostrum.  Peter is the Cleveland native, who, as a 12 year old boy, played "Charly Bucket" in the original Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory; it was his only film. 

Mr. Ostrum received his Doctor of Veterinary Medicine in 1984,  from Cornell University.  Of his career choice, Peter said:

"I can remember the veterinarian coming out and taking care of the horses, and it made a huge impression on me, [...] This person really enjoyed what he did for a living. My father was a lawyer, and I really didn't have a clue what he did all day. But I knew exactly what the veterinarian did. Someone making a living from something he enjoyed so much, really sparked my interest."
                                                                                                                           (from Wiki)

Peter's children are named "Helenka" and "Leif", leading me to conclude that Mr. Ostrum is of Scandinavian ancestry, which provides a handy Hoagie connection.

I think Hoagie would craft an engaging conversation, covering any number of interesting topics (excluding, perhaps, torsion physics), with Mr. Ostrum.

If Hoagie has a producer, and if so, if such producer reads this, I hope he or she or them will reach out to Mr. Ostrum, who most recently practiced  veterinary medicine in upstate NY (dealing mostly with horses and cows).  (ibid)