Setting the stage for WWIII...Obama as Chamberlain.....Armageddon coming?

[21st Century Man]

What the hell is this man thinking?  What did we get from this Iran deal?  Nothing!  Not only is Iran allowed to continue with its nuke development, we are giving them 120 billion dollars.  Israel is so screwed.  They are going to have to go at it alone for the time being.  Bomb the nuke plants.  And if Obama decides to support Iran in retaliation, then I will personally go up to DC and protest this action and call for this president to resign.  He is throwing the Middle East into chaos.  Every nation in that part of the world will be getting their own bomb.  Setting the stage for Biblical Armageddon?  I would have laughed at this a few years ago.  Now it seems like it is probable rather than impossible. This is supposed to be making the world a safer place? What a joke! Stupid, stupid man.

[FightTheFuture]

Israel will not go quietly into the night. If they believe Iran is continuing to develop a nuclear weapon, they will most assuredly strike. If that strike fails in it's objectives, Israel will, without question,  deploy it's nuclear arsenal.

What happens after Iran is nuc'd is anybody's guess.

[Eddie Coyle]

   I'm with Mark Steyn on this. It's unfair to Chamberlain to compare him to Obama.

[21st Century Man]

   I'm with Mark Steyn on this. It's unfair to Chamberlain to compare him to Obama.

Ha!  LOL

[ItsOver]

   I'm with Mark Steyn on this. It's unfair to Chamberlain to compare him to Obama.

Ha!  I love Steyn.  I wish he was posting here.

[136 or 142]

21st Century Man, have you actually read the agreement itself?


I posted a link to the actual text of the agreement in the George Noory sucks thread. 


I have some questions about the deal myself as I posted in that thread, but everything you are saying, right down to the fearmongering, you are regurgitating from the same people who lied to you about Iraq and Saddam Hussein.


As Dumbya famously said " There's an old saying in Tennessee â€" I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee â€" that says, fool me once, shame on â€" shame on you. Fool me â€" you can't get fooled again.”


Regarding Mark Steyn.  He used to write for MacLean's Magazine here in Canada, even his defenders used to say "Well, yes a lot of what he writes is just plain factually wrong but,..."

[136 or 142]

What the hell is this man thinking?  What did we get from this Iran deal?  Nothing!  Not only is Iran allowed to continue with its nuke development, we are giving them 120 billion dollars.  Israel is so screwed.  They are going to have to go at it alone for the time being.  Bomb the nuke plants.  And if Obama decides to support Iran in retaliation, then I will personally go up to DC and protest this action and call for this president to resign.  He is throwing the Middle East into chaos.  Every nation in that part of the world will be getting their own bomb.  Setting the stage for Biblical Armageddon?  I would have laughed at this a few years ago.  Now it seems like it is probable rather than impossible. This is supposed to be making the world a safer place? What a joke! Stupid, stupid man.

In regards to specifics in this post
1.Bombing the nuclear plants (if Iran has nuclear plants) won't work as they supposedly have deep ground bunkers that can't even be destroyed by so called bunker busters.


2.Nobody is 'giving Iran $120 billion'  I don't know over how many years Iran is supposed to be 'given $120 billion' but they already have an annual GDP of $415 billion, so while even $120 billion in one year wouldn't be insignificant, it's not going to be a game changer for Iran.


3.North Korea was able to get nuclear weapons despite their economy being a basket case.  As I said in the other thread, if Iran is trying to make nuclear weapons, they are likely already putting all their nuclear scientists and resources into it, so the additional cash, at least in the short and medium term, won't change anything.


4.So, given what I said above, I have no idea how an inspections process and Iran's agreement to give up much of their nuclear material makes it more likely for them to develop nuclear weapons, despite the Orwellian lies from known dissemblers like Cheney that you are regurgitating here.  I'm aware Saudi Arabia has said they will try to develop their own nukes in response to this, but it's likely just bluster as Saudi Arabia knows that closer relations between Iran and the U.S will make it much more difficult for them to be an actual enemy of the United States while mostly pretending to be an ally.


5.I agree that $120 billion will make Iran, at least in the short term, a bigger threat to Israel. The trade off is the hope that remaking Iran a member of the world community will hopefully make them a more responsible nation.  Didn't work for China, but China is much more able than Iran to snub its nose at the world.

[Juan]

Have you noticed that there is always an administration apologist on every site that allows comments?  Regardless of administration.

[136 or 142]

[/font][/size]Have you noticed that there is always an administration apologist on every site that allows comments?  Regardless of administration.

[/font][/size]

Have you actually read my comments or are you just being an apologist for the opponents of this deal who haven't even actually read it?  I remember Rethuglic supporters and members once made that a talking point.  I guess that was just more of the usual lies and bullshit from them and that you only have to actually read something if you plan to support it.

If you have read my comments you'll see that I've actually read parts of the agreement and I've criticized several aspects of it.



Calling Obama Chamberlain is getting close to violating Godwin's Law. Not that I'd expect anything better from Stupid Steyn.

[Quick Karl]

What the hell is this man thinking?  What did we get from this Iran deal?  Nothing!  Not only is Iran allowed to continue with its nuke development, we are giving them 120 billion dollars.  Israel is so screwed.  They are going to have to go at it alone for the time being.  Bomb the nuke plants.  And if Obama decides to support Iran in retaliation, then I will personally go up to DC and protest this action and call for this president to resign.  He is throwing the Middle East into chaos.  Every nation in that part of the world will be getting their own bomb.  Setting the stage for Biblical Armageddon?  I would have laughed at this a few years ago.  Now it seems like it is probable rather than impossible. This is supposed to be making the world a safer place? What a joke! Stupid, stupid man.

I think that we should apply Obama's Iran philosophies to our prison system - we should negotiate terms with all prisoners and get them to sign pieces of paper swearing that they won't do criminal shit anymore, and we'll invent some cock-and-bull story about monitoring them but we will give them advance notice when we want to come and check them out, and we will let them decide when we can come and check them out, and tell us where we can search, or not, and then just let them all out of prison and cross our fingers that now that we have treated them with liberal genius and intellectual superiority, they will turn into nice docile democrats that just want to smoke pot and masturbate to internet porn all day, and won't do any more crimes...

[136 or 142]

I think that we should apply Obama's Iran philosophies to our prison system - we should negotiate terms with all prisoners and get them to sign pieces of paper swearing that they won't do criminal shit anymore, and we'll invent some cock-and-bull story about monitoring them but we will give them advance notice when we want to come and check them out, and we will let them decide when we can come and check them out, and tell us where we can search, or not, and then just let them all out of prison and cross our fingers that now that we have treated them with liberal genius and intellectual superiority, they will turn into nice docile democrats that just want to smoke pot and masturbate to internet porn all day, and won't do any more crimes...

Is this a quote from Stupid Steyn?

[albrecht]

In regards to specifics in this post
1.Bombing the nuclear plants (if Iran has nuclear plants) won't work as they supposedly have deep ground bunkers that can't even be destroyed by so called bunker busters.


2.Nobody is 'giving Iran $120 billion'  I don't know over how many years Iran is supposed to be 'given $120 billion' but they already have an annual GDP of $415 billion, so while even $120 billion in one year wouldn't be insignificant, it's not going to be a game changer for Iran.


3.North Korea was able to get nuclear weapons despite their economy being a basket case.  As I said in the other thread, if Iran is trying to make nuclear weapons, they are likely already putting all their nuclear scientists and resources into it, so the additional cash, at least in the short and medium term, won't change anything.


4.So, given what I said above, I have no idea how an inspections process and Iran's agreement to give up much of their nuclear material makes it more likely for them to develop nuclear weapons, despite the Orwellian lies from known dissemblers like Cheney that you are regurgitating here.  I'm aware Saudi Arabia has said they will try to develop their own nukes in response to this, but it's likely just bluster as Saudi Arabia knows that closer relations between Iran and the U.S will make it much more difficult for them to be an actual enemy of the United States while mostly pretending to be an ally.


5.I agree that $120 billion will make Iran, at least in the short term, a bigger threat to Israel. The trade off is the hope that remaking Iran a member of the world community will hopefully make them a more responsible nation.  Didn't work for China, but China is much more able than Iran to snub its nose at the world.

I think you are correct. This "deal" is very much like the Clinton/Albright "Agreed Framework"deal with North Korea. The one where Clinton sent Albright to meet swill champagne, and celebrate the Workers Party in a grand parade, with the dictator. And, as we know, N.Korea never developed, and certainly, never tested any nuclear weapons.

Having said that I'd trust Persian people over many of our supposed "allies" in the area with their worse version of Islam, inflated/rapid wealth to become "royal," and who never had a culture to speak of and spread their version of Islam all over the world creating. It would be better, of course, not to have to deal with Muslims at all but get rid of the Ayatollah types I think Iran could turn around, certainly more quickly than the Sunni radical areas with their version of Islam, large wealth discrepancies, corrupt "royals", and non-diversified economies.

[Quick Karl]

Is this a quote from Stupid Steyn?

Go away, sycophant stooge.

[Mind Flayer Monk]

Our allies in NATO and our allies in East Asia (Korea, Japan, Singapore) are dependent on energy from Russia or Iran.

This move is about Putin.

[21st Century Man]

21st Century Man, have you actually read the agreement itself?


I posted a link to the actual text of the agreement in the George Noory sucks thread. 


I have some questions about the deal myself as I posted in that thread, but everything you are saying, right down to the fearmongering, you are regurgitating from the same people who lied to you about Iraq and Saddam Hussein.


As Dumbya famously said " There's an old saying in Tennessee â€" I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee â€" that says, fool me once, shame on â€" shame on you. Fool me â€" you can't get fooled again.”


Regarding Mark Steyn.  He used to write for MacLean's Magazine here in Canada, even his defenders used to say "Well, yes a lot of what he writes is just plain factually wrong but,..."

   I read the first few pages and it is simply naïve bs and we do not get anything in return for this deal not even our hostages.  I consider this the equivalent of The Munich Agreement where Nazi Germany promised it would not advance its armies beyond Czechoslovakia.  We all know how that turned out.  The BIG difference is back then nuclear warfare was not an immediate concern.  This is going to ramp up the arms race in the Middle East which pretty much started under this President.  Au contraire, the President is not making this world a safer place, he is making it a far more dangerous place.  I don't know how old you are, 136, but I remember the Iranian Revolution in Iran and the crazy Ayatollahs that took power after it.  They want our heads and they will do anything they can to get them including telling lies.

    136, you want to believe these people but there is clear reason not to.  Just a few days ago, the ayatollah and the President were at a rally where protestors chanted "Death to America, the Great Satan" and burned an effigy of Obama.

   If this agreement (c'mon, its a treaty. We all know this.) passes  and Israel doesn't do anything in response, then 10 years from now, Iran will have the bomb and we could already be history. WWIII will have already happened or have begun. I will bet you whatever you desire within reason of course because I'm not a rich man.

We have stupid, naïve and downright dangerous fools in the Executive branch.

"Peace in our time"

ROFLMAO

[Juan]

Our allies in NATO and our allies in East Asia (Korea, Japan, Singapore) are dependent on energy from Russia or Iran.

This move is about Putin.

Nailed it. 

[136 or 142]

Go away, sycophant stooge.

Snappy comeback.

[Quick Karl]

   I read the first few pages and it is simply naïve bs and we do not get anything in return for this deal not even our hostages.  I consider this the equivalent of The Munich Agreement where Nazi Germany promised it would not advance its armies beyond Czechoslovakia.  We all know how that turned out.  The BIG difference is back then nuclear warfare was not an immediate concern.  This is going to ramp up the arms race in the Middle East which pretty much started under this President.  Au contraire, the President is not making this world a safer place, he is making it a far more dangerous place.  I don't know how old you are, 136, but I remember the Iranian Revolution in Iran and the crazy Ayatollahs that took power after it.  They want our heads and they will do anything they can to get them including telling lies.

    136, you want to believe these people but there is clear reason not to.  Just a few days ago, the ayatollah and the President were at a rally where protestors chanted "Death to the Great Satan" and burned an effigy of Obama.

   If this agreement (c'mon, its a treaty. We all know this.) passes  and Israel doesn't do anything in response, then 10 years from now, Iran will have the bomb and we could already be history. WWIII will have already happened or have begun. I will bet you whatever you desire within reason of course because I'm not a rich man.

We have stupid, naïve and downright dangerous fools in the Executive branch.

The thing is that elite, intellectually superior, science-based liberal buffoons, believe that we are nothing more than pond scum that evolved into apes that don't look like apes, and can communicate on a higher level than apes, so if the world, along with the elite, intellectually-superior, science-based, liberal buffoon, gets wipes out in a nuclear holocaust, well, it serves us all right because there was slavery once, and some fat redneck called a black man a nigger...

The liberal mind - it's a terrible thing...

[136 or 142]

   I read the first few pages and it is simply naïve bs and we do not get anything in return for this deal not even our hostages.  I consider this the equivalent of The Munich Agreement where Nazi Germany promised it would not advance its armies beyond Czechoslovakia.  We all know how that turned out.  The BIG difference is back then nuclear warfare was not an immediate concern.  This is going to ramp up the arms race in the Middle East which pretty much started under this President.  Au contraire, the President is not making this world a safer place, he is making it a far more dangerous place.  I don't know how old you are, 136, but I remember the Iranian Revolution in Iran and the crazy Ayatollahs that took power after it.  They want our heads and they will do anything they can to get them including telling lies.

    136, you want to believe these people but there is clear reason not to.  Just a few days ago, the ayatollah and the President were at a rally where protestors chanted "Death to the Great Satan" and burned an effigy of Obama.

   If this agreement (c'mon, its a treaty. We all know this.) passes  and Israel doesn't do anything in response, then 10 years from now, Iran will have the bomb and we could already be history. WWIII will have already happened or have begun. I will bet you whatever you desire within reason of course because I'm not a rich man.

We have stupid, naïve and downright dangerous fools in the Executive branch.

I don't believe anybody.  There are measures of verification in this agreement that if they aren't followed will allow for the return of sanctions.  Though, as I've said before, how practical it would be to bring back the sanctions is a valid question.


The attending of the President of Iran at the anti America rally was obviously nothing more than for domestic consumption, and just like the vile, racist Netanyahu, they almost certainly 'didn't really mean it.'


I remember somewhat the overthrow of the Shaw (who was a truly horrible person and who was in power solely due to American backing, the Iranians had every right to be angry at the U.S), while the Mullahs still hold the ultimate sway in Iran and I don't doubt are mostly crazy, it would also likely not be the case to say that some of their extremism and anti American views haven't cooled over 35 years.


Regarding this deal, I still have no idea how a deal that requires Iran to agree to a fairly comprehensive inspection regime and to give up a considerable amount of their nuclear materiel will make it easier for them to acquire nuclear weapons.  This is Orwellian logic and only dissemblers like Cheney and the rest of the NeoCons could plausibly believe such obvious nonsense.

Finally, as a bit of history, calling this deal similar to the Munich Agreement is obviously very inflamed and falls into the category because of that of being a logical flaw.  Regarding the Munich Agreement itself, there is actually considerable debate as to whether Chamberlain himself really believed it did mean 'peace in our time' or whether he was just buying time to prepare the U.K for war.  In the case of virtually all of his advisers, it is well known that they knew Hitler was lying and that they were just buying time.


I would also remind you that the people who are now known as the neocons also said that Reagan's nuclear deal with the Gorbachev was also supposed to be Munich Agreement II.  I don't doubt that Gorbachev is more trustworthy than the Mullah's of Iran, but what treaty that potentially averted war have the Neocons not called "the next Munich Agreement"?

[136 or 142]

The thing is that elite, intellectually superior, science-based liberal buffoons, believe that we are nothing more than pond scum that evolved into apes that don't look like apes, and can communicate on a higher level than apes, so if the world, along with the elite, intellectually-superior, science-based, liberal buffoon, gets wipes out in a nuclear holocaust, well, it serves us all right because there was slavery once, and some fat redneck called a black man a nigger...

The liberal mind - it's a terrible thing...

The Quick (Slow) Karl, mind - it's nonexistent.

[136 or 142]

If this agreement (c'mon, its a treaty. We all know this.) passes  and Israel doesn't do anything in response, then 10 years from now, Iran will have the bomb and we could already be history. WWIII will have already happened or have begun. I will bet you whatever you desire within reason of course because I'm not a rich man.

We have stupid, naïve and downright dangerous fools in the Executive branch.

"Peace in our time"

ROFLMAO

Hah, what would be the point of the bet? If you're right you can't collect.


To quote the supporters of this 'treaty' what's your alternative?  Bomb, Bomb, Bomb, Bomb Iran?

[136 or 142]

I think you are correct. This "deal" is very much like the Clinton/Albright "Agreed Framework"deal with North Korea. The one where Clinton sent Albright to meet swill champagne, and celebrate the Workers Party in a grand parade, with the dictator. And, as we know, N.Korea never developed, and certainly, never tested any nuclear weapons.

Having said that I'd trust Persian people over many of our supposed "allies" in the area with their worse version of Islam, inflated/rapid wealth to become "royal," and who never had a culture to speak of and spread their version of Islam all over the world creating. It would be better, of course, not to have to deal with Muslims at all but get rid of the Ayatollah types I think Iran could turn around, certainly more quickly than the Sunni radical areas with their version of Islam, large wealth discrepancies, corrupt "royals", and non-diversified economies.

Convenient of you to leave out that it was under the Cheney Administration when North Korea finished assembling its nuclear weapons, to the degree that they have nuclear weapons.  They accomplished this in September 2003, almost certainly as a reaction to the U.S illegal, stupid naive and downright dangerous invasion of Iraq.

[Quick Karl]

The Quick (Slow) Karl, mind - it's nonexistent.

Gee, did I post something that you took personal?

[136 or 142]

Gee, did I post something that you took personal?

Nope.  I'm just stating facts.

[Quick Karl]

Convenient of you to leave out that it was under the Cheney Administration when North Korea finished assembling its nuclear weapons, to the degree that they have nuclear weapons.  They accomplished this in September 2003, almost certainly as a reaction to the U.S illegal, stupid naive and downright dangerous invasion of Iraq.

Making Oblunder responsible for everything that happened during his regime, right Bozo?

[Mind Flayer Monk]

North Korea is 30 miles from Seoul so you don't need much of a nuclear device to do some serious damage. One of the main worries is they could just fire artillery into Seoul.  If you notice the news, everyone is worried about the NK rocket tests-which would allow them to deliver their weapon at further ranges.

Iran is 800+ miles away from Tel Aviv, so any kind of attack is far more difficult.

[Eddie Coyle]

[/size]

Not that I'd expect anything better from Stupid Steyn.

  Whose accomplishments dwarf yours. You dream of being a dust mite in his cellar. You zilch.

[136 or 142]

North Korea is 30 miles from Seoul so you don't need much of a nuclear device to do some serious damage. One of the main worries is they could just fire artillery into Seoul.  If you notice the news, everyone is worried about the NK rocket tests-which would allow them to deliver their weapon at further ranges.

Iran is 800+ miles away from Tel Aviv, so any kind of attack is far more difficult.

As I wrote on another board:


"In regards to your other post, I've actually said the same thing before that North Korea has shown no ability thus far to actually be able to launch or deliver a nuclear weapon (except I guess in a plane) and that it might even still be debatable whether they actually had a nuclear bomb or not).[/font][/size]But, as you yourself said, North Korea is now working on missiles that would allow them to deliver their nuclear weapons and it seems both China and South Korea are very concerned about this."

[136 or 142]

  Whose accomplishments dwarf yours. You dream of being a dust mite in his cellar. You zilch.

Yes, he's a third rate hack who is regarded as a joke by most in his profession.  Such an accomplishment.

[136 or 142]

Making Oblunder responsible for everything that happened during his regime, right Bozo?

Sol, North Korea getting nuclear weapons, to the degree that they have them, was the fault of the treaty between the Clinton Admin and North Korea, but was not the fault of the U.S admin that was actually in power at the time the North Koreans got them.  I see.

As I said, Quick (Slow) Karl logic - nonexistent.