Future Theater

[GravitySucks]

To clarify: I'm talking USA vs USSR. I'm still believing we're the good guys. Either party.

I won't argue we're the good guys.  In general, I like to think we are.

It would be interesting to hear what are the last 5-10 things we actually won. Besides some Olympic medals.

I'm hard pressed to come up with a list that long. I'll give us the Cold War and the space race to the moon.

[nbirnes]

I won't argue we're the good guys.  In general, I like to think we are.

It would be interesting to hear what are the last 5-10 things we actually won. Besides some Olympic medals.

I'm hard pressed to come up with a list that long. I'll give us the Cold War and the space race to the moon.

I'd say that the fact that we're enjoying a pretty nice life here in the West, give or take, is the biggest win of all. Plus, we get to talk freely about it.

[GravitySucks]

I'd say that the fact that we're enjoying a pretty nice life here in the West, give or take, is the biggest win of all. Plus, we get to talk freely about it.

We talk freely about it while the niceness of it wears down little by little. No place I would rather be, but I hope I can still say that in 20 years.

[PB the Deplorable]

Yeah, 2009 ... trying to remember how I could have missed this story.

Well, that one sort of sticks out because it was so remarkably incompetent.  And stupid.  Which is the opposite of smart.  And embarrassing.

Anyway, you're the one talking about how smart she'd be dealing with Putin.  I thought maybe you followed her career, at least while she was the Secretary of State and interacting with him and the other powerful heads of state.


Let me ask you this:  she's been First Lady, a US Senator from a big state with some enviable committee assignments, and Secretary of State.  Could you tell me which of the accomplishments she's had over her career you're most impressed with?  What she's done that gives you such confidence she'd be a good President?

During her time as Secretary of State, which of our friends and allies grew stronger and more secure due to her policies?  Which of our enemies weakened?  Which areas of the world are more at peace?  Which dictatorships moved towards more democracy and increased human rights due to her policies?  Which countries are better off because of something she's done? 

I probably don't follow this stuff as closely as you do because I can't really think of anything much at all.  It almost seems like just the opposite.  She was Secretary of State for what, 6 years?  And to a foreign policy novice in the White House, who clearly deferred to her on much of it.  She had a long career in DC before that, so plenty of time to make a positive impact in a lot of areas - especially as someone starting out her Senate career and Cabinet position already so well known, with such high visibility, with a big political base, positive media relations, and lots of allies in and out of government. 

I'm a disgusted voter who really doesn't want to vote for Donald Trump, convince me to support Hilary.

[PB the Deplorable]

Does the reset incident have something to do with the email thing? My own email is such a snarl of hopelessness that I try to avoid any stories or helpful essays or LPTs on how to deal with it. Email has been the least satisfying part of the digital takeover.

Therefore, anyone who has made any decisions about email has always found them thwarted by spam and new spam, so I don't have the emotional fortitude to take a side on this issue.

I think email is high on the list of the best parts of the digital takeover, maybe right at the top.

That aside, I'm not sure how not coping with spam is the equivalent of committing a felony by illegally and deliberately running very highly classified information over a non-secure personal server.  But I get it, she's a Liberal-Progressive Socialist, a Democrat, and a woman, in that order, and that's what really matters.

[Lunger]

Just a feeling. Clinton would have the brightest minds in the West on her team ... and Putin would have his KGB pals. The good guys always win.

Clinton had access to those same minds as she bungled her way through her tenure as Secretary of State, and all she ended up being was an embarrassment.

Look at where she excels.  You will see what she is interested in, and that is personal enrichment at the expense of this country and the lives of countless around the world.  As President, like her term as SoS, Clinton will have her interests in mind not the country's.

Voting for someone because she is a woman and just as bad as voting for them becasue they are black.  Neither are a valid reason to head the country.

Hopefully the justice system will not fail and she will be indicted soon.

[PB the Deplorable]

Putin v. Clinton, wasn't she Secretary of State when Putin grabbed the Crimea and gobbled up much of eastern Ukraine?  And during Putin's heavy handed attempts to intimidate friendly countries like Georgia and our Baltic allies?  Oddly enough, he didn't seem a bit concerned about her or Barry's reactions.  At least she quit before the Russians sent troops into Syria.  No previous US administration would ever have tolerated a Russian military presence in the Middle East, not even her husband's.  Ok, maybe Jimmy Carter would have. 

People like Obama, Hilary Clinton, Carter, Libs in general, do nothing if not project weakness abroad, and expansionist thugs like Putin, the PRC government, the Islamists, see it and take advantage. 

Yeah, she's going to outsmart Putin.  Jesus.

[Lunger]

The thing that really pisses me off about the Ukraine is that we had a treaty with them to protect them from outside forces since they gave up there nukes in '94.

Obama not only made the US a worse place to live but also showed the world the value of the word of the US.

[PB the Deplorable]

The thing that really pisses me off about the Ukraine is that we had a treaty with them to protect them from outside forces since they gave up there nukes in '94.

Obama not only made the US a worse place to live but also showed the world the value of the word of the US.

We were never going to honor a treaty to fight with Ukraine against Russia.  It just isn't logistically feasible, or in our best interests to try.  Who ever believed Bill Clinton's word on anything anyway?  Russia and the UK were also signatories to it - it was a fig leaf allowing the Ukrainian leaders to turn over their nukes without getting kicked out of office for doing so. 

We've gotten ourselves into too many counterproductive costly needless wars lately.  We can't militarily stop Russia from attacking their neighbors, but we can make Putin's life difficult by other means, and make it painful enough to get his attention.

The problem here is the weakness Obama projects.  It invites people like Putin to be aggressive, the PRC to make the moves they've been making in the South China and East China Seas, groups like ISIS to form, supposed friendly governments like Iraq to turn towards Iran...  The danger is one of them miscalculating and crossing a line that would lead to war.

I notice Nancy hasn't come up with any actual positive accomplishments from Hilary's' long career yet. 

[nbirnes]

We were never going to honor a treaty to fight with Ukraine against Russia.  It just isn't logistically feasible, or in our best interests to try.  Who ever believed Bill Clinton's word on anything anyway?  Russia and the UK were also signatories to it - it was a fig leaf allowing the Ukrainian leaders to turn over their nukes without getting kicked out of office for doing so. 

We've gotten ourselves into too many counterproductive costly needless wars lately.  We can't militarily stop Russia from attacking their neighbors, but we can make Putin's life difficult by other means, and make it painful enough to get his attention.

The problem here is the weakness Obama projects.  It invites people like Putin to be aggressive, the PRC to make the moves they've been making in the South China and East China Seas, groups like ISIS to form, supposed friendly governments like Iraq to turn towards Iran...  The danger is one of them miscalculating and crossing a line that would lead to war.

I notice Nancy hasn't come up with any actual positive accomplishments from Hilary's' long career yet.

You are absolutely right. I am looking. How about trying to get universal health care? A worthy goal as First Lady.

[GravitySucks]

You are absolutely right. I am looking. How about trying to get universal health care? A worthy goal as First Lady.

Trying and having a worthy goal does not count as an accomplishment.

Next?

[nbirnes]

Trying and having a worthy goal does not count as an accomplishment.

Next?

I know. I know. That's why being a player in the congressional and political arena is sometime more important than being an outsider. Trying and failing is always honorable, and worthy of respect. Changing the conversation is worthy, too, re: Bernie.

[WhiteCrow]

Trying and having a worthy goal does not count as an accomplishment.

Next?

Roswells... same with having good ideas.. they are a dime a dozen ... takes a life time of effort and commitment to make a few of them happen.. knew long ago.. being the smartest guy counts for little .. persistence pays off.. and done with Love.. good as it gets.

[PB the Deplorable]

You are absolutely right. I am looking. How about trying to get universal health care? A worthy goal as First Lady.

I'm not a Socialist, so we aren't going to agree on that.  If I recall correctly, the whole country was in an uproar over her proposal and it was quickly chucked.

While I do think our medical coverage system before ObamaCare had become ossified and horribly bureaucratic, and that ObamaCare was a turn in the wrong direction and managed to make it even worse, a European-stlye government-run system would be even worse yet.

I would recommend a system where people pay for their own doctor visits out-of-pocket, or buy their own coverage of an annual cost up to a certain amount.  And everyone have a separate policy covering major medical costs.  Make it all tax deductible, have our employers give us the money they had been spending on it, and we choose and pay for our own coverage.

Having one party pay for insurance coverage (employers), another pay for the actual care (insurance companies), another deliver the services (doctors, nurses, pharma, hospitals, etc), all on behalf of the actual patient, makes no sense.  Why should coverage be dictated by what someone's employer decides to pay for?  As free individual citizens we should decide, and pay for it.  THAT - and only that - is what would drive down costs.  Why not actually let the market work for a change?

As always, the poor would have separate access under the safety net, but it makes no sense for everyone to be subject to government whims and control.

[WhiteCrow]

Bill and Nancy, your guest on the last show kind of infuriated me. Tom T. Moore. It seemed to be disinformation and distilling the waters when it comes to making changes.

When Nancy asked him questions about the future, his answer of "everything's going to be okay!" was infuriating. So we can just lay on our sofas and everything will be okay because higher powers in the skies are not going to let us hang ourselves as a species?  Where were these higher powers for Chernobyl, and Fukushima?

That guy made me want to pull my hair out!

And where were these higher powers in skies when Hitler and PolPot and Stalin etc were killing by the millions?

Death count wasn't large enough?...

Oh its 'only' a nuke death count that matters.. that makes perfect sense now.

[WhiteCrow]

I know. I know. That's why being a player in the congressional and political arena is sometime more important than being an outsider. Trying and failing is always honorable, and worthy of respect. Changing the conversation is worthy, too, re: Bernie.

"Trying and failing is always honorable, and worthy of respect"

Falkie is the most honorable and worthy of respect member of Bellgab ... thank you, I rest my case.

Love All

[GravitySucks]

I know. I know. That's why being a player in the congressional and political arena is sometime more important than being an outsider. Trying and failing is always honorable, and worthy of respect. Changing the conversation is worthy, too, re: Bernie.

Trying and failing is not always honorable. That is naive. If you try and rob a bank and fail, is that honorable and worthy of respect?  I think not.

Tell me you are going to vote for Bernie and I'm done. But that's not how the conversation started. You said you would like to see a woman president and Hillary was the only woman running.

I am trying to be polite, partly because this is your show's thread and not the politics thread.

Hillary has tried to stay out of prison. So far she has been successful, but I don't consider that honorable. Martha Stewart spent time in prison for insider trading, Hillary Clinton got away with it (Google Clinton cattle futures).

Several government officials, including General Petraeus have been convicted of mishandling classified information.  That doesn't even address conspiracy to circumvent federal record keeping laws and regulations. It doesn't address influence peddling tied to her position as SoS and the Clinton Foundation. 

This year I hope she fails. And I hope she has Huma and Cheryl Mills as cell mates.  My gut tells me at least one of those two will be granted immunity in exchange for testimony. I hope they get witness protection.

[WhiteCrow]

You are absolutely right. I am looking. How about trying to get universal health care? A worthy goal as First Lady.

If I was President my worth goal would be to make everyone rich ... no wait make everyone poor.. no wait I'd make everyone make babies with some one of a different race. no more races.. one big happy world of gray people. now that a worthy goal and a good idea..

Vote for White Crow

 

[GravitySucks]

If I was President my worth goal would be to make everyone rich ... no wait make everyone poor.. no wait I'd make everyone make babies with some one of a different race. no more races.. one big happy world of gray people. now that a worthy goal and a good idea..

Vote for White Crow

For once I have no retort, but can we make VW make a Beetle for every couple?

[WhiteCrow]

Trying and failing is not always honorable. That is naive. If you try and rob a bank and fail, is that honorable and worthy of respect?  I think not.

Tell me you are going to vote for Bernie and I'm done. But that's not how the conversation started. You said you would like to see a woman president and Hillary was the only woman running.

I am trying to be polite, partly because this is your show's thread and not the politics thread.

Hillary has tried to stay out of prison. So far she has been successful, but I don't consider that honorable. Martha Stewart spent time in prison for insider trading, Hillary Clinton got away with it (Google Clinton cattle futures).

Several government officials, including General Petraeus have been convicted of mishandling classified information.  That doesn't even address conspiracy to circumvent federal record keeping laws and regulations. It doesn't address influence peddling tied to her position as SoS and the Clinton Foundation. 

This year I hope she fails. And I hope she has Huma and Cheryl Mills as cell mates.  My gut tells me at least one of those two will be granted immunity in exchange for testimony. I hope they get witness protection.

I am trying to be polite,

^^^^ Betcha... I'm the only one on Bellgab that  finds this the most humorous thing, that they read today.

oh Gravity .. you do have a gift.

[Juan]

One Hillary accomplishment as a senator was to vote in favor of the Iraq war.

[nbirnes]

One Hillary accomplishment as a senator was to vote in favor of the Iraq war.

But why, if literally all the members of congress but one or two voted for the war based on faulty intel, why would you single out Hillary -- a junior senator at the time -- for that viote?

I am really wondering about this. Hatred for her is so substantial and visceral ... if she's not done much in public life that's considered worthwhile, how could she be responsible for so much damage?

[Juan]

I'm simply pointing that out as the only accomplishment I can remember.
I'm looking forward to the fight between Chelsea and Huma for who will be First Lady. Damn this iPad that wrongly capitalizes First Lady in this instance.

[PB the Deplorable]

... I am really wondering about this. Hatred for her is so substantial and visceral ... if she's not done much in public life that's considered worthwhile, how could she be responsible for so much damage?

Frankly, she and Bill did little during his Presidency, other than jump from scandal to scandal.  Whether you believe they were 'real' scandals or not, they took up much of his focus.  He was Impeached, he lost his law license, he lost court cases to women he abused, he allowed previously restricted advanced Loral rocket technology to be sold to the PRC (PLA) in exchange for a pittance in campaign contributions, their bumbling led to North Korea acquiring nuclear weapons (with big assists on that from Secretary of State Madeleine NotBright, and former President J Fucking Carter).  Waco, Ruby Ridge, I could go on.

Bill was extremely fortunate to have been President during a lengthy period of peace and prosperity.  The Soviet Union was collapsing, China wasn't yet a threat to us or our allies in the region, al-Qaeda was not yet a major force, the economy was at full employment.  The dot-com economy was booming with the rise in technological innovation in communication, computing, digital devices, the use of new technologies to develop pharmaceuticals and medical procedures.   

The Clintons take full credit for all this of course, but can't actually point to more than a handful of minor policies of theirs that contributed to any of it.  In fact, his administration - and she was a huge part of it - was remarkably incompetent.  At least Bill was wise enough to not mess things up, I'll give him that, but as the more ideological of the two Hilary would have with some of the ideas she presented (which were mostly quietly quashed).

Both have fully demonstrated they are corrupt to the core, and over the years both have lied about so much. 

They are two the most contemptible people in DC at their level of visibility, and that's saying something.  Look at the carefully crafted slush fund (set up as a non-taxed non-profit) known as the 'Clinton Presidential Library'. A non profit organization fully controlled by them.  As a private citizen, Bill was raking in cash from interested parties all around the world from 2001 on, and Hillary joined in after she left office as well.  As private citizens who had not yet filed as candidates for office, there was no required reporting of financial sources and amounts on any of this.  And hardly a peep from the fawning Media about it.  Now she's a Presidential candidate with a massive amount of personal (and never to be taxed) family wealth received from individuals and organizations (foreign and domestic) who will surely want favors done once elected, and we don't even have access to information regarding who this money came from.  We can't even get transcripts of the 'speeches' they were giving when they were collecting this money.  We know much of it came from interested sources overseas, and most of the rest came from Wall Street.  The foreign money would have been illegal had it been officially considered campaign contributions, and probably much of the Wall Street money. 

They now have hundreds of millions of these dollars.  Literally hundreds of millions.  Do you think we ought to at least be aware of just who they are beholden to if she gets into office? Shouldn't the Media be demanding to know?  Given these advance payoffs, given their track record - let alone the lack of actual accomplishments - do you really think these two should be returned to the White House?


PS, none of this is an endorsement of the George W Bush Administration, he was actually worse - although not a crook.  That disaster is a separate issue.

[Lunger]

One Hillary accomplishment as a senator was to vote in favor of the Iraq war.

Another was to have a child with Webb Hubbell.

She also excelled covering the ass of a serial rapist and sexual predator.

[Juan]

Ruby Ridge occurred in 1992 during the reign of George H.W. Bush.

[GravitySucks]

Your stream sounds terrible for some reason on PSN radio. The previous show was fine. After your commercial at the start, the stream sounds terrible. Barely listenable.

[nbirnes]

Your stream sounds terrible for some reason on PSN radio. The previous show was fine. After your commercial at the start, the stream sounds terrible. Barely listenable.

Maybe try restarting? (I hope, I hope!)

[chefist]

Maybe try restarting? (I hope, I hope!)

It's sounding pretty good streaming on my media player...

[GravitySucks]

Maybe try restarting? (I hope, I hope!)

Turned it back on, sounds better now. Sounds fine.

Thanks. Btw I was using tunein to listen. I had turned it off because I was getting a headache. Thanks for the suggestion.