20151113 - Terrorism in Paris - Open Lines - Live Show Chat Thread

[Eddie Coyle]

What is crazy/awesome is the great Jacque Plante was the first goalie in the NHL to wear a mask and that was in 1959. And that was after he got hit in the face with blood all over and came back out, with mask, to play the rest of the game. I think you must have to be insane to be goalie, especially back then.

      We don't need no stinkin masks...

   

[FLLFlash]

It's actually on the cusp, overlapping the two gens, plus the X's did round-one, Desert Storm. We are speaking in generalities, and the original context and quote was from some "prepper" on that other show, speaking to a whole wide-ranging skill-set and mental and physical readiness and it's (factual) general lacking in the population as a whole -- so that there-fore when the shit hits the fan you will not have very many good pickins to choose from man-power-wise and the thought of "relying" and depending on same to get us through tough times as-if-our-lives-depended-upon-it  is not a comforting one.  You few who have some skills training and balls will be overwhelmed  by the general ineptitude and functional practical uselessness of the masses around you. I hope you are beginning to see what and who were being refered to earlier, who few might be the assets, and who the-many will in fact be about as good as dead weight at best. Ok? We better now? Hope so.

Thanks for saying this so I didn't have to. While some Millennials participated in conflicts the vast majority did not. Vastly unfair for entire generation to attempt to take credit for the service of so few. During WWII EVERYBODY participated in some way, even if it only amounted to foregone consumption. The coming conflicts may well be in our backyards. I shudder at the thought of what will happen.

[VtaGeezer]

So its okay for Muslims to invade Europe without provocation but since there was so significant war (Spain was still occupied) its not okay for the Christians to invade the Middle East? Why not judge both cultures fairly.

I'm not for refighting the Reconquista, just saying you're conflating conflicts that were almost four centuries and a continent apart.  That's the generational grudge holding we condemn when the Arabs do it.  The Moors ruled parts of Spain for over 700 years, 200 more than Euros have been in N America and than the ancient Hebrews ruled Israel.  I don't know when "occupation" becomes "homeland"  but for we Americans, it's been far less than 200 years for most of our territory, and we conveniently ignore how we got it.

[FLLFlash]

Thank you for your service. For the record I am a big pussy but I know plenty of people in my generation who served since millennials are born in the 1980s to 2000s  I think its a safe bet to say the majority people in Afghanistan and Iraq are millennials, certainly not all of them though.

I was specifically talking about that old caller who said every millennial should service 2 years because they have no backbone or whatever. Given that we have the largest military in the world I would say its just a dig on young people.
I can't wait till I get old and can talk crap about the younger generation.

We don't. It's not even close. The greatest military manpower is China. We have about the same manpower as... er... INDIA.

We do have better gadgets and gizmo's. And a lot of nukes and ships. We also spend a shitpot of money. But manpower - not so much.

[FLLFlash]

Japan had a culture of obedience to authority.  That's what really allowed them to so handily glom onto Western ways once Hirohito ordered them to accept defeat and obey the victors.  There's no such authority in Sunni Islam. Islam has no institutional hierarchy to re-interpret the Prophet's word in a 21st century context. For Islamists, what the Quran says is what it means. Anyone who teaches differently is pre-condemned in the Quran. 

The only way to stem Islamist extremism is to take down the Arab oil states and track down and seize their money; that's the head and heart of the snake.  They are the 7th Century with laptops and Airbuses.  The Saudis have been buying their way to the control of mosques around the world for 50 years.  They've funded terror since Arafat and made it an Arab cultural fixture.  That navel-gazer Batchelor on with Art played right into their fundie ideology by calling jihadi butchers the "warrior class".  It'll take generations to get the rot out of world Islam.  And they have FAR more influence on Wall St and by extension in Washington than we imagine.  I don't think we or any Western nation have either the national will or the leadership to do take up this fight, because it would require the ruthlessness of WWII.

Which is exactly what Batchelor said last night.

[albrecht]

Which is exactly what Batchelor said last night.
I don't think we or any Western nation have either the national will or the leadership to do take up this fight, because it would require the ruthlessness of WWII.

Maybe we should contract the war out to Serbs and the Russians. They know how to handle these types of people. The rest of us don't have the will or stomach. The best thing we can do is not complain or become squeamish we they settle it. And swallow our Kissinger/Brezenski pride and allow Russia to take them out and maybe gain a bit of power in the process.

[bateman]

A more terrifying prospect was recently shown by Jurgen Todenhofer, formerly with Merkel's team, he quit to become a war correspondent and spent 10 days with ISIS under the watchful eye of Jihadi John. In his subsequent book "House of War", he writes, "The terrorists plan on killing several hundred million people. The West is drastically underestimating the power of ISIS." He says they plan a "nuclear tsunami" against the West. "Only Arabs can stop them."

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/middle-east/ISIS-chief-Baghdadi-urges-Muslims-to-join-jihad/articleshow/49782727.cms

“The only ones who could stop this now are the moderate Iraqi Sunnis,” he said, adding: “If you want to defeat an opponent, you must know him.”

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/inside-isis-the-first-western-journalist-ever-given-access-to-the-islamic-state-has-just-returned-9938438.html

[Dr. MD MD]

Sorry, I know this is kinda long and I might be blathering but I'm just trying to think about this whole thing openly and honestly now. Regarding the refugee situation, if the reality of it turned out like it was on the bridge of the USS Enterprise I'd be all for it. A UN inspired collection of individuals of all stripes and colors working together toward common goals for the benefit and betterment of all. Hell, I'd even join hands and sing Kumbaya too. However, the reality of refugee influx isn't like that at all. Most ethnic groups rather than assimilating, mixing and mingling with everyone just keep to themselves and form their own society within ours until they are politically strong enough to change the system itself. Which is now starting to happen. So rather than the progressive atmosphere of the USS Enterprise what you get is something like this:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AltyhmrIFgo

I've been watching various refugee groups come here for years and never really observe any direct benefit to myself. On the contrary, many groups often seem hostile toward established citizens. It seems to benefit them a great deal though. I'm not a xenophobe though. I have nothing against any particular ethic group. It's just that rather than assimilating into an established system they eventually just end up changing it fundamentally. And hey, I'm sure any current system probably does need some fundamental changes but changes for the better hopefully. No one wants to be ruled by fear but in some sense we all are. Terrorists are a very immediate fear but there are also a lot of mechanisms of fear in our own "democratic" societies too. They're often more subtle but just as real. Who here fears being poor? Think hard about how you perceive and treat someone in your life that is unemployed or even underemployed and struggling. For many if not most it's something like this: Fuckin loser! Bum! Get your shit together and get a job! In other words if you lose financial control in your life there must be something fundamentally wrong with you as a person in this society because it couldn't be the system itself that's wrong. And here perhaps Muslims do have a legitimate point of criticism about our society. Maybe we are too materialistic and class based? However, I don't think the establishment of a theocracy is the answer. It just creates a class system built around priests rather rich and/or strong men. I mean, from a historical perspective science is really just beginning to break free from the yolk of religion now. I'd hate to see us go backwards to a dark age. So, where do we go? What do we do? I don't know but I think the answer has to start in understanding ourselves as a speicies better than we currently do. In this regard I've found this man's thinking very interesting and intriguing:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cy9UgYimPOk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9c8an2XZ3MU

Sorry, I know this was long and maybe even hard to digest but after last night I had to get it out. Maybe we're at that point in history where we all need to try to digest a little more

[Mind Flayer Monk]

Maybe we should contract the war out to Serbs and the Russians. They know how to handle these types of people. The rest of us don't have the will or stomach. The best thing we can do is not complain or become squeamish we they settle it. And swallow our Kissinger/Brezenski pride and allow Russia to take them out and maybe gain a bit of power in the process.

Let the Chinese handle it.
They've got that Iraq security agreement after all.

[VtaGeezer]

Let the Chinese handle it.
They've got that Iraq security agreement after all.

Gee, I thought they were.  Or was Mental Ben fibbing?

[FLLFlash]

Maybe we should contract the war out to Serbs and the Russians. They know how to handle these types of people. The rest of us don't have the will or stomach. The best thing we can do is not complain or become squeamish we they settle it. And swallow our Kissinger/Brezenski pride and allow Russia to take them out and maybe gain a bit of power in the process.

Allowing the Serbs and Russians to work on this problem makes a great deal of sense. They have a lot of skin in the game and cannot afford to lose.

[VtaGeezer]

Which is exactly what Batchelor said last night.

He must've read my post from eight hours earlier...

This is a malignancy that the modern West seems incapable of resolving.  If the Allies had this limited themselves to this level of restraint in WWII, we'd be wearing swastika pins.

[Lamont Cranston]

and Faux News kept saying " they're gonna come and take your guns"!! such a joke

Looks like "They" already have guns. Fauz Boobz is just an elaborate Super-Troll, draining the reality out of TV news. It's the Pravda of Roger Ailes brain.

[Dr. MD MD]

Allowing the Serbs and Russians to work on this problem makes a great deal of sense. They have a lot of skin in the game and cannot afford to lose.

Didn't they already try very hard in the late 70s/early 80s in Afghanistan? Of course, this evil genius: http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/162691-the-technotronic-era-involves-the-gradual-appearance-of-a-more made it very hard for them by training and arming the people we're currently discussing. The irony is almost crushing.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ho0DQUU0_50

[Mind Flayer Monk]

Didn't they already try very hard in the late 70s/early 80s in Afghanistan? Of course, this evil genius: http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/162691-the-technotronic-era-involves-the-gradual-appearance-of-a-more made it very hard for them by training and arming the people we're currently discussing. The irony is almost crushing.

Brzezinski didn't go out and get Saudi funding and then arm and train Saudis to fight in Afghanistan. James Baker did that.

[Dr. MD MD]

Brzezinski didn't go out and get Saudi funding and then arm and train Saudis to fight in Afghanistan. James Baker did that.

Right. Brzezinski just whacked the beehive but it was Baker that got to use the bees. I wonder who got the honey?

Anyway, the news report said he was on the Pakistan/Afghanistan border "to set about rallying resistance" because "he wanted to arm the mujahideen without revealing America's role."

[analog kid]

I watched a video of a pregnant woman hanging from a balcony, who was later killed. I wish I didn't watch that.

[albrecht]

Didn't they already try very hard in the late 70s/early 80s in Afghanistan? Of course, this evil genius: http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/162691-the-technotronic-era-involves-the-gradual-appearance-of-a-more made it very hard for them by training and arming the people we're currently discussing. The irony is almost crushing.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ho0DQUU0_50

They did try but we wouldn't let them. Same in Chechnya where Europe got all mad. "Oh the atrocities" and all that crap. And also when we supported the terrorist Muslims against the Serbs. I say forget the Brzezinski/Kissinger crap and stop focusing, so much, on Russia and let Russia (and the Serbs) take care of this scum and do it as brutally as necessary. Since we don't have the will or stomach for it. We could use our resources to root out the fifth column Muslims already living in our countries and deport them or, at a bare minimum, monitor and profile them.

[Dr. MD MD]

They did try but we wouldn't let them. Same in Chechnya where Europe got all mad. "Oh the atrocities" and all that crap. And also when we supported the terrorist Muslims against the Serbs. I say forget the Brzezinski/Kissinger crap and stop focusing, so much, on Russia and let Russia (and the Serbs) take care of this scum and do it as brutally as necessary. Since we don't have the will or stomach for it. We could use our resources to root out the fifth column Muslims already living in our countries and deport them or, at a bare minimum, monitor and profile them.

Hmm...sounds like a deal with the devil and traditionally they don't usually work out so well. This reminds me of the story about the town who had a rat problem and so they got some snakes...well, needless to say it didn't end there.

I know what you're saying though, albrecht. It's essentially this:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKm36o0ZUWI

I'm just not convinced that is genius. I still tend to lean toward the insanity side on this one but you/he may be right. It's one of the things about that movie that continues to haunt me to this day.

[Dr. MD MD]

For France:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HM-E2H1ChJM

Sorry, terrorists but you're the Nazis in this one.

If only the battle could be this easy and beautiful.

Vive la France!

[Robert]

Hmm...sounds like a deal with the devil and traditionally they don't usually work out so well. This reminds me of the story about the town who had a rat problem and so they got some snakes...well, needless to say it didn't end there.

That in turn reminds me of Dashiel Hammett's Red Harvest.

[FLLFlash]

He must've read my post from eight hours earlier...

That's right. The one where you insulted John Batchelor:

That navel-gazer Batchelor on with Art played right into their fundie ideology by calling jihadi butchers the "warrior class".

Which is it? You either agree with him or you don't? If you agree with him why insult him?

[FLLFlash]

Looks like "They" already have guns. Fauz Boobz is just an elaborate Super-Troll, draining the reality out of TV news. It's the Pravda of Roger Ailes brain.

A mis-attribution, already debunked, that you have taken the time to reassert. It was never said.

[FLLFlash]

Didn't they already try very hard in the late 70s/early 80s in Afghanistan?

Well they might have to try again without us aiding their opposition. They're not going to have a choice anyway. This shitstorm is going to directly impose itself on them and they won't have any alternative.

[Dr. MD MD]

Forgive me for being a conspiracy theorist but if not here then where? Shouldn't we at least consider that the terrorists may actually be sheep dip in all this and that this whole thing may be an intentional attempt to flood and overwhelm our democratic institutions toward the goal of some sort of global leveling. By who and to what end I'm not sure but if I had to guess I'd say by those with the most money to some sort of feudal slave system that benefits them the most. It's just a theory but one based on years of observation.

[Dr. MD MD]

That in turn reminds me of Dashiel Hammett's Red Harvest.

That's definitely going on my must read list!

[Dr. MD MD]

I think when America realized that they could use religious fundamentalists as a weapon to defeat a major superpower (USSR) they thought, "Wow! What can't you do with these guys?" And the fun has never stopped since. Well, if they could defeat a major superpower like communist Russia why wouldn't they try to go for total world domination next?

[albrecht]

Forgive me for being a conspiracy theorist but if not here then where? Shouldn't we at least consider that the terrorists may actually be sheep dip in all this and that this whole thing may be an intentional attempt to flood and overwhelm our democratic institutions toward the goal of some sort of global leveling. By who and to what end I'm not sure but if I had to guess I'd say by those with the most money to some sort of feudal slave system that benefits them the most. It's just a theory but one based on years of observation.

There could be elements of this. Why else would the President, for example, want to STREAMLINE and ACCELERATE the number of radical "refugees" entering in the USA at the same time they are shooting and blowing up people in France? And where the government itself says we cannot vett and know that Syrian (and other passports) can be faked because equipment and documents have been seized by rebels and radicals from various regimes? Why would a country have an open-border if the country's leadership cared one whit about national security? Wouldn't the logical thing to do, if one wants some semblance of security, be to control a nation's border first?

[henge0stone]

Thanks for saying this so I didn't have to. While some Millennials participated in conflicts the vast majority did not. Vastly unfair for entire generation to attempt to take credit for the service of so few. During WWII EVERYBODY participated in some way, even if it only amounted to foregone consumption. The coming conflicts may well be in our backyards. I shudder at the thought of what will happen.

Your completely misinterpreting what I said. First I never said anything about comparing Millennials to the WWII generation so lets make that clear. Of course the entire generation didn't fight in Afghanistan and Iraq but the same can be said about basically every generation minus the WWII one. Did everyone in generation X fight in desert storm? No but most of the people in that war were from generation X, so its fair to say that the majority of the people who fought in that war were from generation X. Just as it is fair to say the majority of the people in Iraq and Afghanistan are millennials.

My whole point is that the millennials get NO credit at all for anything, yet most people out there fighting currently are from that generation. There is a huge double standard, Meister_000 can say "plus the X's did round-one, Desert Storm," yet when I say the Millennials did most of the fighting for Iraq and Afghanistan its suddenly no longer appropriate to give credit to the generation that did the majority of the fighting in that war
I don't want or deserve that credit personally but many people I know deserve it.

[VtaGeezer]

That's right. The one where you insulted John Batchelor:

Which is it? You either agree with him or you don't? If you agree with him why insult him?

As I see it, he agreed with me.  As I said way back when the first Friday guest was similarly blathering, after 15 years of a PC clusterfuck; 4X the time it took to defeat Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan; I've had with the media ME/terrorism/intel/Islamic "experts", whether Ivy League pundit or pensioned Fed.