20150921 - Dr. Jeffrey Long - NDEs - Live Show Chat Thread

[munbeam666]

Great show last night, hope you have Dr Long back on as a guest

[subvortex]

Fell asleep too early last night, listening to the podcast today.  What a great guest!  I was skeptical at first but this was a fun show.

[ZomZom]

NDE is one of my favorite topics, and Dr. Long is a knowledgeable guest who, just as importantly, has a very listenable voice for radio.

All the talk of life reviews reminded me of this favorite movie:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jp6qkZkPBhY

[jneilschulman]

NDE is one of my favorite topics, and Dr. Long is a knowledgeable guest who, just as importantly, has a very listenable voice for radio.

All the talk of life reviews reminded me of this favorite movie:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jp6qkZkPBhY

Love "Defending Your Life."  I also once heard Jeff Goldblum, while playing with his jazz band, ask everyone how big their brain was.

[Freyja]

Great show last night, hope you have Dr Long back on as a guest

Ditto!! +++++1

[Mastodonkey]

I couldn't make it through much of this.. Alright Art. You believe in God, afterlife whatever you want to call it. I get it. All the materialists/atheists/scientists are dumb and stupid. Right. When it comes to these NDE shows nothing is ever answered or solved, same old thing.

I'm becoming too cynical in my old age, and having listened to paranormal radio whether Art or whoever for so long nothing comes across as new or groundbreaking as far as this topic goes

And thinking the mind DOES play tricks and spring forth illusions conjured up from our everyday lives and past memories just makes too much sense to me personally.. given the alternative speculation.

I'm not knocking Art or MITD or anything, I'm just saying there is too much of one side in a not so very one sided topic and every time someone leans to the contrary to Art's beliefs he gets somewhat defensive. Not surprising that Dr.Long basically just tells Art what he wants to hear here for the most part. Of-course you will get that when you interview somebody from a non-scientific viewpoint.

[AppealPlay]

So the pandas are awake and enjoying their breakfast.



I guess I lied when I said I was done with the panda caps.

[b_dubb]

Grandpa and Jesus saved caller from the "Light". Yeah no way that was a dream.

Here's a skeptical discussion of Dr Long's research

http://www.skeptiko.com/jeffrey_long_takes_on_critics_of_evidence_of_the_afterlife/

[nika01]

I couldn't make it through much of this.. Alright Art. You believe in God, afterlife whatever you want to call it. I get it. All the materialists/atheists/scientists are dumb and stupid. Right. When it comes to these NDE shows nothing is ever answered or solved, same old thing.

I'm becoming too cynical in my old age, and having listened to paranormal radio whether Art or whoever for so long nothing comes across as new or groundbreaking as far as this topic goes

And thinking the mind DOES play tricks and spring forth illusions conjured up from our everyday lives and past memories just makes too much sense to me personally.. given the alternative speculation.

I'm not knocking Art or MITD or anything, I'm just saying there is too much of one side in a not so very one sided topic and every time someone leans to the contrary to Art's beliefs he gets somewhat defensive. Not surprising that Dr.Long basically just tells Art what he wants to hear here for the most part. Of-course you will get that when you interview somebody from a non-scientific viewpoint.

I think you are showing  your ignorance if you think there are valid reductionist scientific arguments against NDES . These alleged arguments don't exist. If you think they do, bring them out and we will see.

[nika01]

Grandpa and Jesus saved caller from the "Light". Yeah no way that was a dream.

Here's a skeptical discussion of Dr Long's research

http://www.skeptiko.com/jeffrey_long_takes_on_critics_of_evidence_of_the_afterlife/

its not really a skeptical article, it's a rebuttal of skeptics by Dr. Long. It is almost sad to read some of the nonsense some big name scientists have babbled about NDES. Carl Sagan once proclaimed authoritatively that NDEs were replays of birth... Right Carl.

[b_dubb]

NDES can be easily explained as false memories formed after being resuscitated. The evidence gathered by Long is anecdotal and not very compelling. The fact that he readily accepts these stories as evidence of life after death is laughable. It shows you that he isn't really interested in science or medicine.

[jneilschulman]

NDES can be easily explained as false memories formed after being resuscitated. The evidence gathered by Long is anecdotal and not very compelling. The fact that he readily accepts these stories as evidence of life after death is laughable. It shows you that he isn't really interested in science or medicine.

All eyewitness testimony given in court is by your definition nothing more than anecdotal evidence, possibly false memory.

[b_dubb]

All eyewitness testimony given in court is by your definition nothing more than anecdotal evidence, possibly false memory.

Yes. Eyewitness testimony is known to be highly unreliable.

[NoMoreNoory]

I thought the show was riveting, and I speak as a skeptic. But let me clarify. I am not skeptical about the phenomenon of the NDE. I don't doubt that people are describing exactly what they are experiencing, and it is astonishing and strange stuff. But I don't believe that there is any evidence to suggest these experiences have any external reality, much less proof of life after death as was constantly asserted by both Art and his guest. A typical giveaway was the caller who saw Jesus and said he looked like the 'classical Jesus we all know'. Exactly. Not a Palestinian Jew not immediately recognizable as Jesus, but the figure the caller is internally conditioned to see. There is lots of research that demonstrates this: Christians meet Jesus and angels, Hindus meet various Hindu gods, atheists meet figures who have no name, etc.
But a great listen, nonetheless.

[jneilschulman]

Yes. Eyewitness testimony is known to be highly unreliable.

Yet leads to many death experiences.

[nika01]

NDES can be easily explained as false memories formed after being resuscitated. The evidence gathered by Long is anecdotal and not very compelling. The fact that he readily accepts these stories as evidence of life after death is laughable. It shows you that he isn't really interested in science or medicine.

It is sad that you have such an incredibly narrow-minded opinion about this topic. Your proclamation is nonsense, utter nonsense. It is more than nonsense, it is insulting. Obviously you either have not taken the time to seriously investigate this yourself, or you simply arent able to interpret the evidences given.

[b_dubb]

It is sad that you have such an incredibly narrow-minded opinion about this topic. Your proclamation is nonsense, utter nonsense. It is more than nonsense, it is insulting. Obviously you either have not taken the time to seriously investigate this yourself, or you simply arent able to interpret the evidences given.

Or you are so invested in the subject matter that you can't handle when someone disagrees. I studied brain science as an undergrad. I've forgotten more than you know.

[nika01]

Or you are so invested in the subject matter that you can't handle when someone disagrees. I studied brain science as an undergrad. I've forgotten more than you know.

You have no idea who I am or what I know. You didn't address any specifics whatsoever, you just threw down that its all so easily explainable. Bullshit.

[b_dubb]

You have no idea who I am or what I know. You didn't address any specifics whatsoever, you just threw down that its all so easily explainable. Bullshit.

You're the one getting emotional. I offered an alternate explanation. Believe what you want.

[nika01]

You're the one getting emotional. I offered an alternate explanation. Believe what you want.

Seriously, that's all you got? What alternative explanation....oh, wait, you mean the one that has already been thouroughly studied and debunked?  All combiinations of anesthetics, causes of trauma, etc have no correlation with NDE.
The central theme to NDE's, the overarching theme, is the inherent order, logic and meaning of what happens. Its not a phantasm of the brain.
Dont at all get why you think I am emotional, calm statement of fact. Just trying to help debunk scientific reductionist thinking. I am a scientist, interact with many other scientists on a daily basis and know this disease well. Its central theme is the notion that everything can be explained away using known physical processes. This is simply not the case, but as you said, believe what you want.

[b_dubb]

Seriously, that's all you got? What alternative explanation....oh, wait, you mean the one that has already been thouroughly studied and debunked?  All combiinations of anesthetics, causes of trauma, etc have no correlation with NDE.
The central theme to NDE's, the overarching theme, is the inherent order, logic and meaning of what happens. Its not a phantasm of the brain.
Dont at all get why you think I am emotional, calm statement of fact. Just trying to help debunk scientific reductionist thinking. I am a scientist, interact with many other scientists on a daily basis and know this disease well. Its central theme is the notion that everything can be explained away using known physical processes. This is simply not the case, but as you said, believe what you want.

Disease? Interesting word choice.

Every NDE I've read through include details that clearly indicate a dream reality. Streets of gold. Angelic beings. The caller who said Jesus and her Grandpa were trying to send her back to her body. These are obvious components of a dream state.

[nika01]

Disease? Interesting word choice.

Every NDE I've read through include details that clearly indicate a dream reality. Streets of gold. Angelic beings. The caller who said Jesus and her Grandpa were trying to send her back to her body. These are obvious components of a dream state.

I will give you that there are imposed cultural elements in many NDEs. Many may even be fake, many could be hallucinations, however the sheer numbers coupled with the order and meaning preclude, at least for me, the notion that they are all hallucinations of some sort.

Yes, disease is an interesting word choice, maybe not the best, but it's hard to come up with a label for people that are willfully ignorant, and choose to ignore things just because it doesn't fit in their idea of what life is all about. Not saying I know, just saying NDES are pretty compelling.

[b_dubb]

I will give you that there are imposed cultural elements in many NDEs. Many may even be fake, many could be hallucinations, however the sheer numbers coupled with the order and meaning preclude, at least for me, the notion that they are all hallucinations of some sort.

Yes, disease is an interesting word choice, maybe not the best, but it's hard to come up with a label for people that are willfully ignorant, and choose to ignore things just because it doesn't fit in their idea of what life is all about. Not saying I know, just saying NDES are pretty compelling.

Disease. Ignorant. Please explain how it was that you came to be the sole arbiter of truth and wisdom? Did you respond to an ad on Craigslist? Mail in a coupon from a box of cereal?

[eastcoaster]

I second that, immediately thought it was Elaine. Art took her call from "Laneyville Texas" at 1:51:19.  There is a Laneville, Texas pretty close to its eastern border, and she did say she was in east Texas on her bigfoot show.

[nika01]

Disease. Ignorant. Please explain how it was that you came to be the sole arbiter of truth and wisdom? Did you respond to an ad on Craigslist? Mail in a coupon from a box of cereal?

I am not responding past this. You apparently cant read.

[pumaman]

I liked this show very much.  I replayed it twice.  I am concerned however, that Mr. Bell wants to experience a NDE, and if is reading this I hope I decides against it.

[albrecht]

I liked this show very much.  I replayed it twice.  I am concerned however, that Mr. Bell wants to experience a NDE, and if is reading this I hope I decides against it.

Same. He should take up the earlier offer of the sensory deprivation tank first especially (even without drugs.) And it could help the back, I would think, floating? (Not that he  needs it now due to the LED system deal.) But don't try NDE Art!! Wouldn't want something to "go wrong" or you decide it is so good that you don't want to come back....

[Lord Grantham]

"Mrs Duke has been a cardiac intensive care nurse for almost forty years.  She has never had a paranormal experience on the job nor ever had a patient who crashed who talked about an NDE.  To her knowledge it's the same story for her medical colleagues."

That is very weird. Not saying I don't believe you, just that it is inconceivable to me that in 40 years not a single person said anything. Perhaps its the area you live in, a collection of closed mouth Stoics.

Oh no, someone's life experience didn't align with your world view. There must be something wrong with them. yeah, that's the ticket.

[Barfly]

My AC isn't working well, who do i blame for this?Obama? Nixon? Bush?Clinton?
BTW i live in the tropics on a island, sea level hasn't changed for years..

[GravitySucks]

My AC isn't working well, who do i blame for this?Obama? Nixon? Bush?Clinton?
BTW i live in the tropics on a island, sea level hasn't changed for years..

LOL if you have and NDE when your ac goes on the fritz in the keys, you better get a backup portable unit.