Who will be the next President of the United States?

[pate]

Nyes, nyes, Anzac 'nother thang:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2G4IVLataM

I shall stiff upper lip my, somesuch...

I said SUMSUCH, sir!

[Yorkshire pud]

Is Goldfart around?  I can't stomach Noory tonight so I'm going to again try and watch Triumph of The Will.  I tried one time but it made me nauseous and sleepy at the same time.  I know its gotta be Goldfart's favorite movie.

GF has been banished (and his posts) to the dustbin of shit that he knows so well.

[bateman]

Sure, but they've expanded already into parts of Europe and North Africa. France has paid the price for Belgium's ineptitude. The only sure fire way to get any progress is a massive fear offensive. What that fear is needs to be explored and fine tuned to find and exploit the Achilles heel. These vermin don't care that they might die. They care even less their own families might die. They don't have the mindset of self preservation, and I have no compunction in letting that play out in reality and letting em meet their seventy virgins in short order. So what do they fear? Indifference? Fortitude? Ridicule? I don't know.

That's the trillion dollar question. I do know that we need to get serious about the role the Saudis play in all of it though. The House of Saud funneling $$$ to lunatic clerics who radicalize the young and impressionable in the first place hasn't worked out so well for us.

[pate]

GF has been banished (and his posts) to the dustbin of shit that he knows so well.

Eye lubs yew, mang...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULHrCzUvnKg

[BellBoy]

That's the trillion dollar question. I do know that we need to get serious about the role the Saudis play in all of it though. The House of Saud funneling $$$ to lunatic clerics who radicalize the young and impressionable in the first place hasn't worked out so well for us.

A good start, on our side, might be to stop funneling shoveling $$$ to The House of Saud 

[pate]

Seriously.

Onions...

[area51drone]

[Yorkshire pud]

Yeah, but facts and actuality aren't your strong points are they drone? I mean, you even think Senda has redeeming qualities.

[21st Century Man]

GF has been banished (and his posts) to the dustbin of shit that he knows so well.

Thank God and MV.  I finished the movie but I'd be lying if I said that I cried.  I had a big mess to clean up on the carpet after the movie was over.

[nooryisawesome]

I'm horrified at the prospect, but yes, ground troops. Obama won't do it though, he won't even bomb the oil truck convoys going from Syria into Turkey - it's insane. Or the oil infrastructure. The rationale is, he doesn't want to take away a revenue source from the people who MAY AT SOME POINT take the land back from ISIS. This is the actual policy.

I hate the idea of ground troops. It's what ISIS wants. And it just seems so... Neocon. But it's probably necessary. I would say, bomb the fucking hell out of the oil infrastructure, cut off the convoys into Turkey, make killing al-Baghdadi a high priority and then send in ground troops to finish them off. Raqqa should be a parking lot when we get done with it.

Collateral damage will be high.

I agree, it should be done but there should be no mistake about the consequences. Also had Obama been more proactive two years ago when every adult was screaming to halt the growth of ISIS in Syria, it wouldn't have come to this.

[nooryisawesome]

That's the trillion dollar question. I do know that we need to get serious about the role the Saudis play in all of it though. The House of Saud funneling $$$ to lunatic clerics who radicalize the young and impressionable in the first place hasn't worked out so well for us.

It is seemingly counter-productive for the Saudi's to do this, as they have enough problems with radical clerics in their own country. Saudi Arabia needs to crack down the super powerful clerics they have preaching this garbage in their own country.

[area51drone]

Yeah, but facts and actuality aren't your strong points are they drone? I mean, you even think Senda has redeeming qualities.

You always love to bring that subject out of its own thread, don't you?  That's your mistake.

[Yorkshire pud]

You always love to bring that subject out of its own thread, don't you?  That's your mistake.

Yeah, but it's too easy and I can't resist. Live with it.

It's said a man is judged by the company he keeps...Might be worth bearing that in mind eh?

[MV/Liberace!]

Thank God and MV.

not necessarily in that order, though.

[MV/Liberace!]

Saudi Arabia needs to crack down the super powerful clerics they have preaching this garbage in their own country.

but how could they?  vast swaths of their population agree with everything those clerics say, and as a matter of self preservation, the saudi royal family has long walked a fine line between deference to radical islam and inclusion in global enterprise.  i've known a lot of saudis over the years, and radical islamic ideology permeates their entire culture, even among the young.  it's easy to see once you drill down below the audis they drive and the tacky unbuttoned silk disco shirts they wear.

[Yorkshire pud]

but how could they?  vast swaths of their population agree with everything those clerics say, and as a matter of self preservation, the saudi royal family has long walked a fine line between deference to radical islam and inclusion in global enterprise.  i've known a lot of saudis over the years, and radical islamic ideology permeates their entire culture, even among the young.  it's easy to see once you drill down below the audis they drive and the tacky unbuttoned silk disco shirts they wear.

...Is reason enough to demand UN sanctions.

[MV/Liberace!]

...Is reason enough to demand UN sanctions.

agreed.  or, at the very least, a UN ban on the overuse of cologne.

[VtaGeezer]

but how could they?  vast swaths of their population agree with everything those clerics say, and as a matter of self preservation, the saudi royal family has long walked a fine line between deference to radical islam and inclusion in global enterprise.  i've known a lot of saudis over the years, and radical islamic ideology permeates their entire culture, even among the young.  it's easy to see once you drill down below the audis they drive and the tacky unbuttoned silk disco shirts they wear.

A Saudi acquaintance tells me that the support for ISIS is quite high on the Arab street, especially among the young adults, and the Royals fear a general mutiny in the Army if they order an offensive against ISIS.  BTW, the bottom fell out of oil prices today after the discombobulation in the OPEC meeting last Friday; $38/bbl!

[MV/Liberace!]

A Saudi acquaintance tells me that the support for ISIS is quite high on the Arab street, especially among the young adults, and the Royals fear a general mutiny in the Army if they order an offensive against ISIS.

immediately after the bengazi consulate was blowed up, when the narrative about the youtube video was still in heavy circulation, i recall having a long conversation with a 20 year old saudi in which he asserted that it's ok to kill people who insult the prophet mohammed since an insult to the prophet is akin to an insult lobbed at someone's wife or mother.  this is how they think.  it's entirely incongruent with western thinking, and frankly, it's why people are less than interested in importing more of this ideology from that part of the world.  i don't think most people are specifically fearful they'll be blown to bits by a terrorist.  they just don't want this philosophy imported and allowed to grow in strength/numbers.

BTW, the bottom fell out of oil prices today after the discombobulation in the OPEC meeting last Friday; $38/bbl!

i didn't catch anything about the opec meeting or what happened, so feel free to bring me up to speed.  $38 per barrel, though... niiiiice.

[Yorkshire pud]

A Saudi acquaintance tells me that the support for ISIS is quite high on the Arab street, especially among the young adults, and the Royals fear a general mutiny in the Army if they order an offensive against ISIS.  BTW, the bottom fell out of oil prices today after the discombobulation in the OPEC meeting last Friday; $38/bbl!

Wow, at this rate I'll nearly be able to afford to put petrol in the car.

[MV/Liberace!]

What it tells me is, how does any power defeat a philosophy?

exactly right.  this is why we can bomb syria until we're blue in the face, but it'll do nothing to kill off the philosophy... the idea, that isis represents.  if anything, it'll legitimize their philosophy among the population as babies and old ladies get blown up in their dirt floor shacks in the dead of night. 

my opinion on this hasn't been changed because of a couple shootings: the middle east should be left to enjoy the islamic fundamentalist utopia it wishes for its self, and western nations should stop importing this ideology into their countries in a desperate bid to show how inclusive and culturally rounded they are.  problem solved.  to think that one bombs syria to address a shooting in paris or san bernardino... that's just knee-jerk, group-think, childlike reactionary bullshit.  i wouldn't sacrifice one american life for the cesspool that is the islamic world.

[SredniVashtar]

exactly right.  this is why we can bomb syria until we're blue in the face, but it'll do nothing to kill off the philosophy... the idea, that isis represents.  if anything, it'll legitimize their philosophy among the population as babies and old ladies get blown up in their dirt floor shacks in the dead of night. 

I think it's even worse than that. The lucky ones will get killed outright. All the bombing will ruin whatever infrastructure there was to begin with, so people will end up starving, or die from otherwise treatable illnesses. I am sure we will ship in a few medics for some photo-ops, but that's going to be a drop in the ocean. The one thing that you are absolutely guaranteed in that situation is that people will turn to whatever bunch of lunatics offers them any sort of relief, however temporary. You are giving these people exactly what they want. How our 'leaders' can't see that all this is just going to make it all worse is something I can't understand.

[chefist]

exactly right.  this is why we can bomb syria until we're blue in the face, but it'll do nothing to kill off the philosophy... the idea, that isis represents.  if anything, it'll legitimize their philosophy among the population as babies and old ladies get blown up in their dirt floor shacks in the dead of night. 

my opinion on this hasn't been changed because of a couple shootings: the middle east should be left to enjoy the islamic fundamentalist utopia it wishes for its self, and western nations should stop importing this ideology into their countries in a desperate bid to show how inclusive and culturally rounded they are.  problem solved.  to think that one bombs syria to address a shooting in paris or san bernardino... that's just knee-jerk, group-think, childlike reactionary bullshit.  i wouldn't sacrifice one american life for the cesspool that is the islamic world.

+1...I agree...

[Yorkshire pud]

I think it's even worse than that. The lucky ones will get killed outright. All the bombing will ruin whatever infrastructure there was to begin with, so people will end up starving, or die from otherwise treatable illnesses. I am sure we will ship in a few medics for some photo-ops, but that's going to be a drop in the ocean. The one thing that you are absolutely guaranteed in that situation is that people will turn to whatever bunch of lunatics offers them any sort of relief, however temporary. You are giving these people exactly what they want. How our 'leaders' can't see that all this is just going to make it all worse is something I can't understand.

I think they can, but they have 'advisors' who tell the politicos that they must be seen doing something. Putin is separate to this because he'll do whatever suits him and the Mafia; who will make sure they don't have refugees.

As I posted elsewhere, the complexities are thus:

President Assad (who is bad) is a nasty guy who got so nasty his people
    rebelled and the Rebels (who are good) started winning.

    But then some of the rebels turned a bit nasty and are now called Islamic
    State (who are definitely bad) and some continued to support democracy (who
    are still good).

    So the Americans (who are good) started bombing Islamic State (who are bad)
    and giving arms to the Syrian Rebels (who are good) so they could fight
    Assad (who is still bad) which was good.

    By the way, there is a breakaway state in the north run by the Kurds who
    want to fight IS (which is a good thing) but the Turkish authorities think
    they are bad, so we have to say they are bad whilst secretly thinking
    they're good and giving them guns to fight IS (which is good) but that is
    another matter.

    Getting back to Syria. President Putin (bad, as he invaded Crimea and the
    Ukraine and killed lots of folks including that nice Russian man in London
    with polonium) has decided to back Assad (who is still bad) by attacking IS
    (who are also bad) which is sort of a good thing?

    But Putin (still bad) thinks the Syrian Rebels (who are good) are also bad,
    and so he bombs them too, much to the annoyance of the Americans (who are
    good) who are busy backing and arming the rebels (who are also good).

    Now Iran (who used to be bad, but now they have agreed not to build any
    nuclear weapons and bomb Israel are now good) are going to provide ground
    troops to support Assad (still bad) as are the Russians (bad) who now have
    ground troops and aircraft in Syria.

    So a Coalition of Assad (still bad) Putin (extra bad) and the Iranians
    (good, but in a bad sort of way) are going to attack IS (who are bad) which
    is a good thing, but also the Syrian Rebels (who are good) which is bad.

    Now the British (obviously good, except Corbin who is probably bad) and the
    Americans (also good) cannot attack Assad (still bad) for fear of upsetting
    Putin (bad) and Iran (good / bad) and now they have to accept that Assad
    might not be that bad after all compared to IS (who are super bad).

    So Assad (bad) is now probably good, being better than IS (no real choice
    there) and since Putin and Iran are also fighting IS that may now make them
    good. America (still good) will find it hard to arm a group of rebels being
    attacked by the Russians for fear of upsetting Mr Putin (now good) and that
    mad ayatollah in Iran (also good) and so they may be forced to say that the
    Rebels are now bad, or at the very least abandon them to their fate. This
    will lead most of them to flee to Turkey and on to Europe or join IS (still
    the only constantly bad group).

    To Sunni Muslims, an attack by Shia Muslims (Assad and Iran) backed by
    Russians will be seen as something of a Holy War, and the ranks of IS will
    now be seen by the Sunnis as the only Jihadis fighting in the Holy War and
    hence many Muslims will now see IS as good (doh!).

    Sunni Muslims will also see the lack of action by Britain and America in
    support of their Sunni rebel brothers as something of a betrayal (might have
    a point) and hence we will be seen as bad.

    So now we have America (now bad) and Britain (also bad) providing limited
    support to Sunni Rebels (bad) many of whom are looking to IS (good / bad)
    for support against Assad (now good) who, along with Iran (also good) and
    Putin (also, now, unbelievably, good ) are attempting to retake the country
    Assad used to run before all this started?

    I hope that this clears it all up for you.

[BellBoy]

exactly right.  this is why we can bomb syria until we're blue in the face, but it'll do nothing to kill off the philosophy... the idea, that isis represents.  if anything, it'll legitimize their philosophy among the population as babies and old ladies get blown up in their dirt floor shacks in the dead of night. 

my opinion on this hasn't been changed because of a couple shootings: the middle east should be left to enjoy the islamic fundamentalist utopia it wishes for its self, and western nations should stop importing this ideology into their countries in a desperate bid to show how inclusive and culturally rounded they are.  problem solved.  to think that one bombs syria to address a shooting in paris or san bernardino... that's just knee-jerk, group-think, childlike reactionary bullshit.  i wouldn't sacrifice one american life for the cesspool that is the islamic world.

Not unduly to kiss and tongue your ass, but that is the most sane thing I've heard said on the issue to date. Let them bask in their open sewer utopia that is the 8th Century Middle East.

[MV/Liberace!]

[/b]

Not unduly to kiss and tongue your ass...

No, no... please, feel free.

[Yorkshire pud]

No, no... please, feel free.

You're far too subtle and hard to get for this forum. You should be banned.

[MV/Liberace!]

You should be banned.

I already am, but my account keeps letting me in for whatever reason.

[BellBoy]

I already am, but my account keeps letting me in for whatever reason.

You might want to report that to the site's janitor moderator. What's his name, humvee?

[MV/Liberace!]

You might want to report that to the site's janitor moderator. What's his name, humvee?

H-I-Vee, I think he goes by.