Who will be the next President of the United States?

[Yorkshire pud]

You might want to report that to the site's janitor moderator. What's his name, humvee?

Summink like that.

[VtaGeezer]

immediately after the bengazi consulate was blowed up, when the narrative about the youtube video was still in heavy circulation, i recall having a long conversation with a 20 year old saudi in which he asserted that it's ok to kill people who insult the prophet mohammed since an insult to the prophet is akin to an insult lobbed at someone's wife or mother.  this is how they think.  it's entirely incongruent with western thinking, and frankly, it's why people are less than interested in importing more of this ideology from that part of the world.  i don't think most people are specifically fearful they'll be blown to bits by a terrorist.  they just don't want this philosophy imported and allowed to grow in strength/numbers.

i didn't catch anything about the opec meeting or what happened, so feel free to bring me up to speed.  $38 per barrel, though... niiiiice.

I've read that it used be that the further you got from Mecca, the more generally liberal the practice of Islam.  Thanks to Western oil money paid to perhaps the most barbaric culture since the Aztecs, that's now changed radically.  The Saudis have dispatched Wahhabi clerics with bags of money to all corners of the Muslim world and bought their way into the hearts and minds of Muslims everywhere. 

How it happened...
"Yo, Ali, have you been to the new mosque that the Saudi dude opened?  Wow...its all amazing Arabic style like being in the old country; beats the hell out of our mosque above the shoe store. If you go to his Quran study group for six months, he'll pay your Uncle's way over from Pakistan.  Drives a M5 too!  And his sermons are kind of edgy.  I'm done with that old Egyptian windbag at the old mosque."

About 10 years ago a W African engineer told us at a business dinner how their traditional, fairly liberal, Islam had been infiltrated by Saudis buying their way into mosques and preaching Wahhabi venom.  His words came back to me when reports of Boko Haram and Christian v. Muslim massacres began appearing.

I didn't read the details on OPEC, but it's just continuation of the higher production cost members bitching to the Arabs to cut production and stick to a quota, but being told to fuck themselves.  The conventional word is that the Saudis want to hold the price low long enough to crush the frackers and oil sand producers.  Gold is continuing to slip slide away too @ $1075. 

[Yorkshire pud]

I've read that it used be that the further you got from Mecca, the more generally liberal the practice of Islam.  Thanks to Western oil money paid to perhaps the most barbaric culture since the Aztecs, that's now changed radically.  The Saudis have dispatched Wahhabi clerics with bags of money to all corners of the Muslim world and bought their way into the hearts and minds of Muslims everywhere. 

How it happened...
"Yo, Ali, have you been to the new mosque that the Saudi dude opened?  Wow...its all amazing Arabic style like being in the old country; beats the hell out of our mosque above the shoe store. If you go to his Quran study group for six months, he'll pay your Uncle's way over from Pakistan.  Drives a M5 too!  And his sermons are kind of edgy.  I'm done with that old Egyptian windbag at the old mosque."

About 10 years ago a W African engineer told us at a business dinner how their traditional, fairly liberal, Islam had been infiltrated by Saudis buying their way into mosques and preaching Wahhabi venom.  His words came back to me when reports of Boko Haram and Christian v. Muslim massacres began appearing.

I didn't read the details on OPEC, but it's just continuation of the higher production cost members bitching to the Arabs to cut production and stick to a quota, but being told to fuck themselves.  The conventional word is that the Saudis want to hold the price low long enough to crush the frackers and oil sand producers.  Gold is continuing to slip slide away too @ $1075.

To sum up: are we in the shit then?

[21st Century Man]

Not unduly to kiss and tongue your ass, but that is the most sane thing I've heard said on the issue to date. Let them bask in their open sewer utopia that is the 8th Century Middle East.

One thing that I might add.  MV mentioned but I feel the need to accentuate it.  No more immigration from the Middle East and I would unfortunately have to add  North Africa and the western portions of the Far East (Pakistan, Afghanistan etc).  And no Muslims from any other country in the world.  I would make exceptions for refugees being persecuted by Muslim majorities.  Sorry, we might not be at war with Islam but Islam is at war with us.  Maybe we should just shut down immigration altogether for a few years anyway.  The US govt. shut it down between '24 and '64 so it has precedent.


Also, any Muslims over here on a green card or visa, if convicted of a crime, need to be deported immediately back to their country of origin.

[whoozit]

exactly right.  this is why we can bomb syria until we're blue in the face, but it'll do nothing to kill off the philosophy... the idea, that isis represents.  if anything, it'll legitimize their philosophy among the population as babies and old ladies get blown up in their dirt floor shacks in the dead of night. 

my opinion on this hasn't been changed because of a couple shootings: the middle east should be left to enjoy the islamic fundamentalist utopia it wishes for its self, and western nations should stop importing this ideology into their countries in a desperate bid to show how inclusive and culturally rounded they are.  problem solved.  to think that one bombs syria to address a shooting in paris or san bernardino... that's just knee-jerk, group-think, childlike reactionary bullshit.  i wouldn't sacrifice one american life for the cesspool that is the islamic world.

We don't have any politicians wise enough to realize there is nothing they can do to stop this.  They either really believe they are the smartest person in the world and if we follow their plan we'll finally solve the unsolvable or are afraid of being accused of doing nothing.  Sometimes nothing is the wisest thing to do.

[21st Century Man]

However, I also don't have a problem bombing the shit out of ISIS targets. 

[MV/Liberace!]

The conventional word is that the Saudis want to hold the price low long enough to crush the frackers and oil sand producers.

And to punish Russian support of Iran. Russians are losing their assess with the current oil prices.

[Yorkshire pud]

We don't have any politicians wise enough to realize there is nothing they can do to stop this.  They either really believe they are the smartest person in the world and if we follow their plan we'll finally solve the unsolvable or are afraid of being accused of doing nothing.  Sometimes nothing is the wisest thing to do.

I think one of the reasons is the previous (pre 1990-2000 or so) influxes of immigration from Asia/Africa/West Indies to Europe and UK in particular has been relatively benign. Sure we've always had the undercurrent of specific groups within the whole group not wanting to 'be British', but it has been more irritation and distaste rather than fear. I think that generally is still the case; but politicians of all colours know I'm sure the elephant is in the room staring right back at them;  it's just they cannot bring themselves to face it and they also know it's impossible to deport British citizens to foreign countries even if they wanted to; which they never will. We didn't send Catholics to Ireland because of PIRA.

[MV/Liberace!]

No more immigration from the Middle East and I would unfortunately have to add  North Africa and the western portions of the Far East (Pakistan, Afghanistan etc).

If we implement this policy, hopefully it starts with the deportation of my wife. Save me, oh lord.

However, I also don't have a problem bombing the shit out of ISIS targets. 

I will say there's an appeal to the "fuck you" aspect of doing so, but I just think that's where any real productivity ends. One million dollars per missile? That's a year's salary for 20 border guards.

[21st Century Man]

If we implement this policy, hopefully it starts with the deportation of my wife. Save me, oh lord.

I will say there's an appeal to the "fuck you" aspect of doing so, but I just think that's where any real productivity ends. One million dollars per missile? That's a year's salary for 20 border guards.

You make excellent points, MV.  However, I'm sure we have a huge stockpile of missiles that we better use up before their expiration date.  Use them or lose them.

As for your wife,  as she is an American citizen, she's not covered.  I suppose you could place her in some sort of internment camp.

[VtaGeezer]

One thing that I might add.  MV mentioned but I feel the need to accentuate it.  No more immigration from the Middle East and I would unfortunately have to add  North Africa and the western portions of the Far East (Pakistan, Afghanistan etc).  And no Muslims from any other country in the world.  I would make exceptions for refugees being persecuted by Muslim majorities.  Sorry, we might not be at war with Islam but Islam is at war with us.  Maybe we should just shut down immigration altogether for a few years anyway.  The US govt. shut it down between '24 and '64 so it has precedent.


Also, any Muslims over here on a green card or visa, if convicted of a crime, need to be deported immediately back to their country of origin.

We're deeply entrenched in modern Western value system of universal human rights, justice, freedom of expression and religion, etc. as fixed and given.  We still think Arab Muslims are basically like Methodists with a different prayer book.  Just give 'em time; they'll come around to being tolerant and civil like us.  Nope. Not all of them, and enough will resist to be a nightmare. It'll take a couple huge shocks for the West to "get it.  The question is whether we'll be able to recover from those shocks.  The non-Arab Muslim world, generally fairly tolerant and liberal, is rapidly being consumed by puritanical Salafist Islam.  I sometimes wonder if we're toast and the Chinese will have to deal with the malignancy in the ME.

[Yorkshire pud]

You make excellent points, MV.  However, I'm sure we have a huge stockpile of missiles that we better use up before their expiration date.  Use them or lose them.

As for your wife,  as she is an American citizen, she's not covered.  I suppose you could place her in some sort of internment camp.

He could but somehow she'll bring it up in conversation to him when he drives her to the camp. Their kids will miss her too I expect; but needs is musts.

[ItsOver]

As for your wife,  as she is an American citizen, she's not covered.  I suppose you could place her in some sort of internment camp.

There's one near me for women.  Called The Galleria or something.  Just give your wife your credit cards and she'll be very happy there, so I hear.

[MV/Liberace!]

As for your wife,  as she is an American citizen, she's not covered.  I suppose you could place her in some sort of internment camp.

she's not a citizen, but you wouldn't know it if you met her.  she will be one soon, though.

[Yorkshire pud]

she's not a citizen, but you wouldn't know it if you met her.  she will be one soon, though.

Then if you're quick, you can get her refused and deported. She's foreign and African isn't she? What's wrong with you man??

[chefist]

The truth is coming out now...why enhanced screening of refugees would be criticized by many on the left is beyond me...

http://thehill.com/policy/national-security/262316-isis-has-targeted-refugee-program-to-enter-us-chairman-says

[Yorkshire pud]

The truth is coming out now...why enhanced screening of refugees would be criticized by many on the left is beyond me...

http://thehill.com/policy/national-security/262316-isis-has-targeted-refugee-program-to-enter-us-chairman-says

Who is criticising it? Over here they're screened in France by British officials and again if they're allowed in the UK.

[whoozit]

The truth is coming out now...why enhanced screening of refugees would be criticized by many on the left is beyond me...

http://thehill.com/policy/national-security/262316-isis-has-targeted-refugee-program-to-enter-us-chairman-says

Sadly many naively believe everyone just wants to get along.  I wish that was the case but history points out just how wrong that belief is. 

[21st Century Man]

she's not a citizen, but you wouldn't know it if you met her.  she will be one soon, though.

You really wouldn't want your child to be raised without a mommy, would you?

[21st Century Man]

There's one near me for women.  Called The Galleria or something.  Just give your wife your credit cards and she'll be very happy there, so I hear.

LOL!  That might work!  However, I have to say I'm the big spender in my marriage.  My wife has a thing for frugality.  I have no such qualms.

[chefist]

Who is criticising it? Over here they're screened in France by British officials and again if they're allowed in the UK.

http://www.politico.com/story/2015/11/democrats-syria-refugees-congress-216015

Uh, Obama, Pelosi, Reed...on and on...

[Yorkshire pud]

http://www.politico.com/story/2015/11/democrats-syria-refugees-congress-216015

Uh, Obama, Pelosi, Reed...on and on...

Well didn't the Rep's refuse the recommendation to disallow those on a watch list a right to buy a firearm? I think there could be some tit for tat here, as with all politicians who can't work together for the good of those who put them there...Oh hang on they do. I don't mean the electorate though.

[chefist]

Well didn't the Rep's refuse the recommendation to disallow those on a watch list a right to buy a firearm? I think there could be some tit for tat here, as with all politicians who can't work together for the good of those who put them there...Oh hang on they do. I don't mean the electorate though.

What does that have to do with increasing background checks on Syrian refugees entering the US? I'm all for thorough background checks for gun ownership...but I wasn't referring to that...

[21st Century Man]

Well didn't the Rep's refuse the recommendation to disallow those on a watch list a right to buy a firearm? I think there could be some tit for tat here, as with all politicians who can't work together for the good of those who put them there...Oh hang on they do. I don't mean the electorate though.

There are something like 62 employees of some federal dept. on the no-fly list.  Many people get on the no-fly list that don't deserve to be on the no-fly list.  Ted Kennedy was on the no-fly list. The no-fly list is a joke.  There is no due process.

Rather repetitive but I made my point, I think. LOL

[Yorkshire pud]

What does that have to do with increasing background checks on Syrian refugees entering the US? I'm all for thorough background checks for gun ownership...but I wasn't referring to that...

I know, but as I said, I think it could be a tit for tat thing. All politicians drink from the same trough as each other. They don't give a toss about you or me. It's why I have said (because the US political machine is slightly different to the UK one), get yourself (generally) elected into office; doesn't anyone born in the US have the right to do so?

I'm serious too. There are several posters on here who I admire because of their intelligence and common sense approach. I may not agree with then in all things, we seldom do with anyone, but they should go for it, who knows, they may get lucky.

The biggest problem is of course money; and money in politics breeds corruption and the prostitution of that initial 'Doing it for the good of my fellow citizens'. They then become owned; but not by the electorate. Hey, we're not exempt here, it's been going on here too.

[chefist]

I know, but as I said, I think it could be a tit for tat thing. All politicians drink from the same trough as each other. They don't give a toss about you or me. It's why I have said (because the US political machine is slightly different to the UK one), get yourself (generally) elected into office; doesn't anyone born in the US have the right to do so?

I'm serious too. There are several posters on here who I admire because of their intelligence and common sense approach. I may not agree with then in all things, we seldom do with anyone, but they should go for it, who knows, they may get lucky.

The biggest problem is of course money; and money in politics breeds corruption and the prostitution of that initial 'Doing it for the good of my fellow citizens'. They then become owned; but not by the electorate. Hey, we're not exempt here, it's been going on here too.

Contrarians...absolutely...

[Claudius]

I've read that it used be that the further you got from Mecca, the more generally liberal the practice of Islam.  Thanks to Western oil money paid to perhaps the most barbaric culture since the Aztecs, that's now changed radically.  The Saudis have dispatched Wahhabi clerics with bags of money to all corners of the Muslim world and bought their way into the hearts and minds of Muslims everywhere. 

How it happened...
"Yo, Ali, have you been to the new mosque that the Saudi dude opened?  Wow...its all amazing Arabic style like being in the old country; beats the hell out of our mosque above the shoe store. If you go to his Quran study group for six months, he'll pay your Uncle's way over from Pakistan.  Drives a M5 too!  And his sermons are kind of edgy.  I'm done with that old Egyptian windbag at the old mosque."

About 10 years ago a W African engineer told us at a business dinner how their traditional, fairly liberal, Islam had been infiltrated by Saudis buying their way into mosques and preaching Wahhabi venom.  His words came back to me when reports of Boko Haram and Christian v. Muslim massacres began appearing.

I didn't read the details on OPEC, but it's just continuation of the higher production cost members bitching to the Arabs to cut production and stick to a quota, but being told to fuck themselves.  The conventional word is that the Saudis want to hold the price low long enough to crush the frackers and oil sand producers.  Gold is continuing to slip slide away too @ $1075.

I just wanted you to know that your assessment of Saudi religious influence is spot on, and sad too. The Saudi version of Islam is the most retrograde version which you will find around the world. The Saudi version is on par with IS, except IS likes to show the world their beheadings and stonings, SA hides it in their prisons.

[Claudius]

Well didn't the Rep's refuse the recommendation to disallow those on a watch list a right to buy a firearm? I think there could be some tit for tat here, as with all politicians who can't work together for the good of those who put them there...Oh hang on they do. I don't mean the electorate though.

Yeah that recommendation is highly problematic, mainly because the no-fly list is absolutely terrible. If they re-structured the list by including a description of the individual and a birthdate they yeah those people should be barred from buying weapons. But as it stands the NFL is basically just a name, no real descriptors so if a John Smith ever gets put on that list ever John Smith would have to go to secondary screening. Good thing there are only 2 people in the world with my name. Score! 

[Yorkshire pud]

Yeah that recommendation is highly problematic, mainly because the no-fly list is absolutely terrible. If they re-structured the list by including a description of the individual and a birthdate they yeah those people should be barred from buying weapons. But as it stands the NFL is basically just a name, no real descriptors so if a John Smith ever gets put on that list ever John Smith would have to go to secondary screening. Good thing there are only 2 people in the world with my name. Score!

There are two Santa Clause's? Seriously?

[VtaGeezer]

There are something like 62 employees of some federal dept. on the no-fly list.  Many people get on the no-fly list that don't deserve to be on the no-fly list.  Ted Kennedy was on the no-fly list. The no-fly list is a joke.  There is no due process.

Rather repetitive but I made my point, I think. LOL

Let's just drop the no-fly list.  Someone might be offended.