Bella-Haven is Live

[GravitySucks]

But but but I know Texas is a the big.. But I've been caught now traveling through the pan-handle in a car stopping blizzard and another time in a violent thunder/rain/hail storm. It was raining so hard, couldn't see past hood and my truck was hydro-plane'ing across the road.

Yep, but most off us don't consider that to be Texas. It's just stuff we don't want Oklahoma to have.

[ponyboysunset]

Good Morning PBS. I don't think its ever wrong to apologize, even if we didn't mean to hurt anybodys feelings.  Its difficult on a forum with many shows, many hosts.....Sometimes I feel frustrated, because nobody can like ALL the shows, and ALL the hosts, and pretending to like all of them, well, that just never comes across as sincere to me. Its sort of like every guest being a hosts "favorite" guest, or every topic being ones favorite topic.  It's difficult, and I don't have the answers, but I feel your struggle.

I think what did it was I asked yesterday if someone would really off themselves over a forum and radio show and the answer I got back was 'just wait until the gabcast'. That is when I decided I was out. No one is innocent in all of this. But to have a hand in hurting someone or pushing someone on purpose, no way. This isn't some stranger, this is someone I have interacted with on some level. And even if it was a stranger it is still wrong. I honestly thought about it. What I would do in that situation and how hard it would be. Yes you have to be thicked skinned but at some point, everyone breaks. I guess I just didn't want to be part of that breaking process.

[Lilith]

I think what did it was I asked yesterday if someone would really off themselves over a forum and radio show and the answer I got back was 'just wait until the gabcast'. That is when I decided I was out. No one is innocent in all of this. But to have a hand in hurting someone or pushing someone on purpose, no way. This isn't some stranger, this is someone I have interacted with on some level. And even if it was a stranger it is still wrong. I honestly thought about it. What I would do in that situation and how hard it would be. Yes you have to be thicked skinned but at some point, everyone breaks. I guess I just didn't want to be part of that breaking process.

I agree with everything you said.  It's just as real and difficult a balance on a forum, as it is in real life.

[Richard Groyper]

I started this post several times and shared with a few privately last night. I am all done participating in anything that could push someone over the edge. I'm not leaving the forum, I am simply done being part of the problem. I apologized to Heather. I am sure I will get backlash from the board as I was very critical of her. But after what I consider a spiritual dream I did what I felt was right. It's so easy to forget that someone is behind that avatar. I didn't like what I was becoming or how I was acting so I took an opportunity for growth.

*kneeling at the burnt mask of Darth PBS* BellGab, I will finish what you've started... 

[Lilith]

I guess I just didn't want to be part of that breaking process.

If something is breaking someone, does that mean that something is wrong with the thing, or the people involved, that is breaking them?  or does it mean they are involved in something that is not right for them?  What's your thoughts?

[ponyboysunset]

If something is breaking someone, does that mean that something is wrong with the thing, or the people involved, that is breaking them?  or does it mean they are involved in something that is not right for them?  What's your thoughts?

Personally all of the above. I still stand by my opinions on a lot of things. But, if the end goal was to break someone all along then I want no part of it. Should the person in the public eye be able to take it and not care or get off of the computer? Probably. Then again with no experience it is hard to expect someone to behave in a certain way. Also if I worked for my hero and all the things that have happened happened to me, I'm not sure I wouldn't have lost it either. Long and short of it, I am in no position to judge someone.

I still don't think how any of it was handled was right. I know it says something about mob mentality which I participated in too, that the mob was ruling. I don't know. It's like I woke up and and see all sides. It sucks..LOL. It was much easier to be part of something.

[Lilith]

Personally all of the above. I still stand by my opinions on a lot of things. But, if the end goal was to break someone all along then I want no part of it. Should the person in the public eye be able to take it and not care or get off of the computer? Probably. Then again with no experience it is hard to expect someone to behave in a certain way. Also if I worked for my hero and all the things that have happened happened to me, I'm not sure I wouldn't have lost it either. Long and short of it, I am in no position to judge someone.

I still don't think how any of it was handled was right. I know it says something about mob mentality which I participated in too, that the mob was ruling. I don't know. It's like I woke up and and see all sides. It sucks..LOL. It was much easier to be part of something.

I go through the same thing, with the seeing all sides thing.....Yeah, It's confusing, and often even depressing.  If you get some insights ......I'd love to hear.  Sometimes I think it might have been simpler and easier living in caves, seriously.

[Ms. C]

I started this post several times and shared with a few privately last night. I am all done participating in anything that could push someone over the edge. I'm not leaving the forum, I am simply done being part of the problem. I apologized to Heather. I am sure I will get backlash from the board as I was very critical of her. But after what I consider a spiritual dream I did what I felt was right. It's so easy to forget that someone is behind that avatar. I didn't like what I was becoming or how I was acting so I took an opportunity for growth.

Thank you for your honesty ... and my heart does good to read your post. 

PBS, I know you are more of a vegetarian than a heavy meat eater .. so in honor to you -- I bring to the table a wonderful fruit buffet and a dish of ratatouille with baked eggs; enjoy PBS and Bella Haven! 

[heater]

I think what did it was I asked yesterday if someone would really off themselves over a forum and radio show and the answer I got back was 'just wait until the gabcast'. That is when I decided I was out. No one is innocent in all of this. But to have a hand in hurting someone or pushing someone on purpose, no way. This isn't some stranger, this is someone I have interacted with on some level. And even if it was a stranger it is still wrong. I honestly thought about it. What I would do in that situation and how hard it would be. Yes you have to be thicked skinned but at some point, everyone breaks. I guess I just didn't want to be part of that breaking process.

great point, i really respect it.  i wish everyone could agree with it but I know that wont happen. 

last night was rough as we had two people that have great talent at odds with each other. the easy thing would have been for the forum to take sides and attack them and each other in the process.  I could say I'm #teamheather or #teambateman but that's not the whole story.  To pick a side would be the beginning of helping the tear down of another person that deserves respect even if flawed at times.  I'm flawed too.


https://youtu.be/sfSoD1j3Qos

[GravitySucks]

I go through the same thing, with the seeing all sides thing.....Yeah, It's confusing, and often even depressing.  If you get some insights ......I'd love to hear.  Sometimes I think it might have been simpler and easier living in caves, seriously.

I could do that if there weren't any spiders.

[ponyboysunset]

Thank you for your honesty ... and my heart does good to read your post. 

PBS, I know you are more of a vegetarian than a heavy meat eater .. so in honor to you -- I bring to the table a wonderful fruit buffet and a dish of ratatouille with baked eggs; enjoy PBS and Bella Haven! 

Thanks so much.
As to insights themudking was spot on. This is going to sound dumb but I had a dream about the whole thing and acted on it. And you know what, I felt better after.

The other thing is all we are doing is speculating with bits of information. No one knows what really happened as our own perspectives tend to skew it. I like both people involved so I didn't listen last night. Not sure if I will.

All of us can say what we would do but until we are put into that situation we really have no idea.

[Lilith]

great point, i really respect it.  i wish everyone could agree with it but I know that wont happen. 

last night was rough as we had two people that have great talent at odds with each other. the easy thing would have been for the forum to take sides and attack them and each other in the process.  I could say I'm #teamheather or #teambateman but that's not the whole story.  To pick a side would be the beginning of helping the tear down of another person that deserves respect even if flawed at times.  I'm flawed too.


https://youtu.be/sfSoD1j3Qos

I'm glad PBS started this discussion, it's a difficult one, with no simple answer.  I'm not sure it even has an answer, and am afraid that if it DOES have an answer, that answer would be to be silent.  Its confusing and depressing, but I'm still glad PBS brought it up, and I'm glad we have a thread where we can talk about it.

[SredniVashtar]

Perhaps I'm just insensitive, but I don't see that Heather has had to suffer much more than a bit of hazing. There is often a tendency to pick on someone from the out-group to see what they are made of, and whether they have the stuff to be part of the in-group. It might be unpleasant at the time, but that sort of thing builds muscle and makes you able to face much more serious challenges later on. If she finds it too much to handle then the job is not for her. If you have the talent, and the guts to make that talent work for you, then you have a good chance to succeed. There's a line to draw between abuse and simply pointing out her shortcomings, and I don't think the continual mantra of 'Heather's getting better' is really going to help her. For one thing, it sounds like the sort of thing you'd try to encourage a slow child or adult; for another, it gives someone a false idea of their abilities.

[ponyboysunset]

I'm glad PBS started this discussion, it's a difficult one, with no simple answer.  I'm not sure it even has an answer, and am afraid that if it DOES have an answer, that answer would be to be silent.  Its confusing and depressing, but I'm still glad PBS brought it up, and I'm glad we have a thread where we can talk about it.

I was going to post it in the Art Bell thread but didn't feel like dealing with the backlash. Might still get some. Oh well. And for me it isn't all depressing. I feel so much better that I said something. What is sad is that what brought us all together has come to this. No matter which side you are on, or as themudking said no side, it hurts us all. I think separating a person from their behavior is difficult too. And as themudking said he is flawed. I am too. I have flipped my cookies in my lifetime as I bet most people have.

[Lilith]

Perhaps I'm just insensitive, but I don't see that Heather has had to suffer much more than a bit of hazing. There is often a tendency to pick on someone from the out-group to see what they are made of, and whether they have the stuff to be part of the in-group. It might be unpleasant at the time, but that sort of thing builds muscle and makes you able to face much more serious challenges later on. If she finds it too much to handle then the job is not for her. If you have the talent, and the guts to make that talent work for you, then you have a good chance to succeed. There's a line to draw between abuse and simply pointing out her shortcomings, and I don't think the continual mantra of 'Heather's getting better' is really going to help her. For one thing, it sounds like the sort of thing you'd try to encourage a slow child or adult; for another, it gives someone a false idea of their abilities.

I lstened to the entire gabcast, recorded it even, and Heather sounded tired, yet upbeat about the whole thing, even indicated she was just lol'ing around with bateman about the 30 minute notice for doing a live show thing.  I didn't get the impression that Heather was feeling weak or broken.

[Lilith]

I was going to post it in the Art Bell thread but didn't feel like dealing with the backlash. Might still get some. Oh well. And for me it isn't all depressing. I feel so much better that I said something. What is sad is that what brought us all together has come to this. No matter which side you are on, or as themudking said no side, it hurts us all. I think separating a person from their behavior is difficult too. And as themudking said he is flawed. I am too. I have flipped my cookies in my lifetime as I bet most people have.

We are all flawed.  Even as we find and fix one flaw, we discover 4 more to work on.....I think its endless.  What do you think?

[ponyboysunset]

We are all flawed.  Even as we find and fix one flaw, we discover 4 more to work on.....I think its endless.  What do you think?

My honest opinion is that we are sent here to learn specific lessons we pick ahead of time. What was really cool was seeing the lesson I was learning as it unfolded this time.

[Ms. C]

We are all flawed.  Even as we find and fix one flaw, we discover 4 more to work on.....I think its endless.  What do you think?

Personally, I feel those 'flaws' are really lessons in disguise.  So, absolutely when we fix a flaw (or Learn a Lesson); we then move on to work on the next lesson available to us. 

[Lilith]

Personally, I feel those 'flaws' are really lessons in disguise.  So, absolutely when we fix a flaw (or Learn a Lesson); we then move on to work on the next lesson available to us.

Thats how I see it as well Ms. C.  For dummy me, each one seems to take years, if not decades of practice    

[ponyboysunset]

Thats how I see it as well Ms. C.  For dummy me, each one seems to take years, if not decades of practice    

Most people are like that. My last one was when I got sober. This was another moment I was given a clear choice to make. I don't know I just knew I did it that it was right.

[Richard Groyper]

Perhaps I'm just insensitive, but I don't see that Heather has had to suffer much more than a bit of hazing. There is often a tendency to pick on someone from the out-group to see what they are made of, and whether they have the stuff to be part of the in-group. It might be unpleasant at the time, but that sort of thing builds muscle and makes you able to face much more serious challenges later on. If she finds it too much to handle then the job is not for her. If you have the talent, and the guts to make that talent work for you, then you have a good chance to succeed. There's a line to draw between abuse and simply pointing out her shortcomings, and I don't think the continual mantra of 'Heather's getting better' is really going to help her. For one thing, it sounds like the sort of thing you'd try to encourage a slow child or adult; for another, it gives someone a false idea of their abilities.

Heather doesn't pay attention to forum posters, yet she's affected by their negative posts? She can't have it both ways. Participation awards are for children... Young children.

[Lilith]

....For one thing, it sounds like the sort of thing you'd try to encourage a slow child or adult; for another, it gives someone a false idea of their abilities.

I agree with this part in particular, sometimes people don't realize it, but as bellgabbers, we all rally around each other at a gabcast and thrill to hear the sound of each others voices!  I in particular am guilty of this as well.  It can give my bellgab friends a false sence of their talents and abilities, and my best intentions to have fun with them can end up being the thing that set them up with false ideas and hopes about their talents for the future.  It's another aspect of that "both sides dillema thing" that I would say most of earths population has not even considered yet. IMO.  I hope I'm wrong.

[GravitySucks]

We are all flawed.  Even as we find and fix one flaw, we discover 4 more to work on.....I think its endless.  What do you think?

That is a thought to reflect upon. And it takes introspection and perspective. For me, it is a constant struggle to only judge myself. I know I have one flaw, or what I will call a character defect, that I have prayed and prayed to be removed.

It pains me when it rises to the surface.  It brings pain to others as well.  It has been almost 25 years that I realized I had it, but I know I have had it for nearly my entire life. I don't know why this one flaw remains a part of my life. God must figure I am going to really need it one day to "survive" some type of situation. This is something I struggle to understand.

I can generally keep it at bay, and sometimes I can catch myself when it starts to manifest itself.  But, to be honest with you, I end up having to apologize for it way more than I am comfortable to admit.

The only reason I am even typing this out is to once again confront myself with the fact that I still have it. Maybe by doing that, I will be able to reflect once again on what it means and whether or not I am really ready to be rid of it. I hope so. I Know I would be a better person without it.

Only time will tell.

[GravitySucks]

Thats how I see it as well Ms. C.  For dummy me, each one seems to take years, if not decades of practice    

A person much wiser than me taught me you can't think your self into better behavior, but you can behave yoursel into better thinking.

[Richard Groyper]

I agree with this part in particular, sometimes people don't realize it, but as bellgabbers, we all rally around each other at a gabcast and thrill to hear the sound of each others voices!  I in particular am guilty of this as well.  It can give my bellgab friends a false sence of their talents and abilities, and my best intentions to have fun with them can end up being the thing that set them up with false ideas and hopes about their talents for the future.  It's another aspect of that "both sides dillema thing" that I would say most of earths population has not even considered yet. IMO.  I hope I'm wrong.

Complementing someone for hosting the GabCast is fine. MITD... entirely different animal all together. The show should be renamed: Midnight In The GabCast.

[heater]

I agree with this part in particular, sometimes people don't realize it, but as bellgabbers, we all rally around each other at a gabcast and thrill to hear the sound of each others voices!  I in particular am guilty of this as well.  It can give my bellgab friends a false sence of their talents and abilities, and my best intentions to have fun with them can end up being the thing that set them up with false ideas and hopes about their talents for the future.  It's another aspect of that "both sides dillema thing" that I would say most of earths population has not even considered yet. IMO.  I hope I'm wrong.

i agree too brig.  criticism and praise require context to be valuable.

[SredniVashtar]

I agree with this part in particular, sometimes people don't realize it, but as bellgabbers, we all rally around each other at a gabcast and thrill to hear the sound of each others voices!  I in particular am guilty of this as well.  It can give my bellgab friends a false sence of their talents and abilities, and my best intentions to have fun with them can end up being the thing that set them up with false ideas and hopes about their talents for the future.  It's another aspect of that "both sides dillema thing" that I would say most of earths population has not even considered yet. IMO.  I hope I'm wrong.

Oh, I see, so you were just blowing smoke the whole time, huh? I was wondering why 'FireBreathingDragon.com' had been struggling despite my six-figure investment and worldwide ad campaign!

[heater]

Oh, I see, so you were just blowing smoke the whole time, huh? I was wondering why 'FireBreathingDragon.com' had been struggling despite my six-figure investment and worldwide ad campaign!

Sredni, you are a great man and important figure.  don't listen to the h8trs.

[Richard Groyper]

A person much wiser than me taught me you can't think your self into better behavior, but you can behave yoursel into better thinking.

You're the king of wishful thinking and the leader of 'The Knights of Heather.' I'm sure your logic makes sense to you.

[Lilith]

Oh, I see, so you were just blowing smoke the whole time, huh? I was wondering why 'FireBreathingDragon.com' had been struggling despite my six-figure investment and worldwide ad campaign!

NO NO NEVER ShredmeVashtar.  I would not DREAM of blowing sunshine up your chimney.  I was sincere about the FireBreathingQualities of your voice and sound effects on the Gabcast !!!!!