Obama's views and treatment: Military&Veterans vs Illegals

[pyewacket]

I wonder what the percentage of democrat voters vs. anything else voters are in the VA, or the IRS?

Do you believe that principled people with morals are the people responsible for what is going on in those two institutions?

QK- This didn't happen over night. People on both sides of the aisle have gotten too comfortable abusing power and ignoring the needs of the people. Money and the lack of accountability has contributed largely to the mess that is the VA system.

It's hard to say exactly when we started down this path. The money, lobbyists, special interests, foreign interests, corporations, nasty campaigns, lies, misrepresentations, corruption- all run the system now.
<snip>
Benjamin Franklin (1706â€"90)
QUOTATION:   â€œWell, Doctor, what have we gotâ€"a Republic or a Monarchy?”

  “A Republic, if you can keep it.”
</snip>

It takes an informed, engaged public to keep a representative republic working in the people's best interest.   

[pyewacket]

It is more than unacceptable. I would say almost treasonous. It didnt start with Obama, I know. But now he is in charge and he knew (and talked about even in early campaigns) about the VA problems. Ignore if wars were good or justified. Secret waiting lists, kicking people out of military post combat service for behavior or alcohol/drug use post campaigns and often drugs prescribed for injuries physical&mental so VA doesnt need to cover, and crap like that is totally unacceptable and treasonous. ESPECIALLY as the administration brags (see my link I posted at top of thread) about how we give such awesome, comprehensive healthcare to illegals!!!

I have no idea how they plan on taking care of the new ACA system and the influx of illegals. The VA is the canary in the coal mine.

[albrecht]

I have no idea how they plan on taking care of the new ACA system and the influx of illegals. The VA is the canary in the coal mine.

Apparently illegals, if the administration and government documents and press releases can be believed, are receiving very good healthcare and treatment. They even buy games, like monopoly, for the illegals. Guess what a homeless Vet or even just a homeless US citizen gets. I have mixed feelings on VA because ive known some who loved n praised it. But that was before the latest wars and cynical policies. (Im talking old WWII n Korea guys who later got sick n praised it. But, again, because they could get treatment n had low or real expectations.) But now we got more n worse (sadly our medics n corpsmen- I will not denigrate them by calling them Corpsemen like someone- and facilities are so good we have a HUGE new burden because people survive. But damaged physically and mentally. They should have priority over illegals or indeed even me etc.

[DigitalPigSnuggler]

Because I was 8 and didn't know any better.

Come come now Karl, which is it? 

Yeah, at 8, I actually said that to the fucking pervert.

So you were a bad motherfucker when you gave him a second chance to diddle your winkie, but you were too young and innocent to not react the first time he did it?

Here, let me rewrite your story so that it makes sense.

"When I was about 8, at a Boy's Club Camp in New Jersey, a camp councilor tried to touch my dick.  It was horrible...at first."

[Quick Karl]

"When I was about 8, at a Boy's Club Camp in New Jersey, a camp councilor tried to touch my dick.  It was horrible...at first."

You're projecting, pervert.

[albrecht]

You're projecting, pervert.

They don't hide it and advocate even teaching it in schools. They think it is normal. Very sick people and what is worse is that they have prominent positions in government.

[DigitalPigSnuggler]

You're projecting, pervert.

You're prevaricating, porno-boy.

Now answer the question: did you twiddle other kiddies at camp, or just the adults?

[Yorkshire pud]

They don't hide it and advocate even teaching it in schools. They think it is normal. Very sick people and what is worse is that they have prominent positions in government.

Who is 'they', and what is it 'they' advocate teaching in schools?

[Yorkshire pud]

Geez. These days they teach that kind of stuff to children at school. And the leftists say that things like that are normal. I kid you not. They probably would let you both get married these days or at least protest for the "right" to do so. Groups like NAMBLA was a big influence on the homosexual rights movement and participated in the marches and first international organizations even. These leftists are really sick people.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/10948796/Paedophilia-is-natural-and-normal-for-males.html
http://www.westernjournalism.com/exclusive-investigative-reports/obama-appoints-homosexual-propogandist-to-education/

Funny how you drop into the defacto assumption that 'leftists' think that paedophilia is normal...isn't it? Savile was a supporter of Thatcher (She of Conservative party fame), and Harris is also a right winger...

Shall we get rid of this left/ right crap about perversions, cos you know how it can be turned back on your logic, and make you look silly.

Homosexuality isn't perverted..It's between consenting adults. Neither Harris or Savile were homosexuals, they are/were paedophiles. Still, don't let fact get in the way of the old left (Boooo) right (Hoorayyyy) crap.

[albrecht]

Funny how you drop into the defacto assumption that 'leftists' think that paedophilia is normal...isn't it? Savile was a supporter of Thatcher (She of Conservative party fame), and Harris is also a right winger...

Shall we get rid of this left/ right crap about perversions, cos you know how it can be turned back on your logic, and make you look silly.

Homosexuality isn't perverted..It's between consenting adults. Neither Harris or Savile were homosexuals, they are/were paedophiles. Still, don't let fact get in the way of the old left (Boooo) right (Hoorayyyy) crap.

Yep, and look up the Franklin Scandal for the stuff in the US. Also the alleged "call boy" ring in DC. And that weird fake reporter Gannon and the younger Bush. Odd story. Almost as weird as Obama's frequent separate vacations and body-men and all those rumors. Or, more funny, was the "wide stance" Republican. I never said it didn't exist in rightwing or Republican/Tory circles-- they keep it hidden- only that the left-wing types seeks to make it normal, redefine marriage, blame the "spectrum of sexuality" and the like. NAMBLA was very prominent in the beginning of the homosexual rights movement and was defended and supported by them (until the normal people and press saw that and then the homosexual activists distanced themselves a bit, some still defend.) There is, or was, even a pedophile party in Holland associated with the leftists/progressives.

[Yorkshire pud]

Yep, and look up the Franklin Scandal for the stuff in the US. Also the alleged "call boy" ring in DC. And that weird fake reporter Gannon and the younger Bush. Odd story. Almost as weird as Obama's frequent separate vacations and body-men and all those rumors. Or, more funny, was the "wide stance" Republican. I never said it didn't exist in rightwing or Republican/Tory circles-- they keep it hidden- only that the left-wing types seeks to make it normal, redefine marriage, blame the "spectrum of sexuality" and the like. NAMBLA was very prominent in the beginning of the homosexual rights movement and was defended and supported by them (until the normal people saw that and then they distanced themselves.) There is, or was, even a pedophile party in Holland associated with the leftists/progressives.

How do you explain the ancient Greeks and Romans raping boys? Or how Arabs do now? Or the practice in Afghanistan in certain areas where Older men have boys to rape? You think they're all leftists progressives?

When you start looking at the whole picture, and accept that paedophilia isn't party politically motivated or even supported by normal people, you'll be taken seriously. Are you suggesting ( I really hope not) that because the 'right' keep it hidden, it's somehow more honourable? Savile and Harris hid it plain sight; their political leanings are irrelevant. It's the same with all paedophiles. Only in the US do you first ask what party they voted for before asking what they did! It then frames the opinion of what they did. Genius!

Homosexuality isn't against the law in the US or UK...Rape is.

[Quick Karl]

How do you explain the ancient Greeks and Romans raping boys? Or how Arabs do now? Or the practice in Afghanistan in certain areas where Older men have boys to rape? You think they're all leftists progressives?

I explain it by calling them what they are - homosexual perverts that should be poisoned.

[Yorkshire pud]

I explain it by calling them what they are - homosexual perverts that should be poisoned.

Why would I possibly want an opinion from you, when I could get a more informed one from the worms in the garden? Run along and dream of summer camp.

[albrecht]

How do you explain the ancient Greeks and Romans raping boys? Or how Arabs do now? Or the practice in Afghanistan in certain areas where Older men have boys to rape? You think they're all leftists progressives?

When you start looking at the whole picture, and accept that paedophilia isn't party politically motivated or even supported by normal people, you'll be taken seriously. Are you suggesting ( I really hope not) that because the 'right' keep it hidden, it's somehow more honourable? Savile and Harris hid it plain sight; their political leanings are irrelevant. It's the same with all paedophiles. Only in the US do you first ask what party they voted for before asking what they did! It then frames the opinion of what they did. Genius!

Homosexuality isn't against the law in the US or UK...Rape is.

There has been perversions and violence etc in all cultures throughout history. There is nothing new under the sun. My point is that in western nations there is a movement to make such things seen as "normal" or even good or trendy. The people who support, as you mention changing laws on perversion, are usually of the leftist bent and not homosexuals themselves. But the idea, generally, is to undermine the family and marriage and therefore overthrow "capitalism" and Western hegemony etc (read Gramsci etc.) Even pedophilia was championed by some activists (until the leadership realized that normal people wouldn't go that far, yet, and so the homosexual groups eventually distanced themselves from that position even though groups such as NAMBLA was influential in the movement at the beginning.) You will note also, as in Rome or even the Spartans, that their empire or city-state eventually fell and before that the sexual perversion increased and culture degeneration happened.

[Yorkshire pud]

There has been perversions and violence etc in all cultures throughout history. There is nothing new under the sun. My point is that in western nations there is a movement to make such things seen as "normal" or even good or trendy. The people who support, as you mention changing laws on perversion, are usually of the leftist bent and not homosexuals themselves. But the idea, generally, is to undermine the family and marriage..

Stop you there; The paedophiles attached themselves to any activist group that they thought would give them a sympathetic ear in an age (Late 70's-mid 80's) when there was a widespread disillusionment with Reagan and Thatcher and their belief in 'trickle down economics'. Many millions of ordinary people felt (with some justification) they were thrown out of that alleged vision. We had vast marches here saving the whale, supporting the right to strike, supporting gays, lesbians, black people, yellow, green and purple along the way. There was an underground organisation by the name of PIE; Paedophile information exchange. This was long before the internet so they ran their seedy little crap from of all places.....Whitehall. Yep, one of their number worked in London and hid his membership list of their sick bastards in a filing cabinet in the office where he worked. No-one knew until after he was arrested and taken to court where a great deal of what he did was found out.

Anyway..PIE was such group that tried to attach itself to any body of protesters who it thought would let it tag along. That doesn't mean they succeeded, or that once it was found out who they were, didn't have fifty shades of shit kicked out of them.


You conflate that with being homosexual or lesbian (and probably bi sexual too); that you do, says far more about your profound and frankly nauseating ignorance than it does about homosexuality.
Incidentally, you haven't said who 'they' are who are pushing to get 'their' stuff put into schools.

and therefore overthrow "capitalism" and Western hegemony etc (read Gramsci etc.) Even pedophilia was championed by some activists (until the leadership realized that normal people wouldn't go that far, yet, and so the homosexual groups eventually distanced themselves from that position even though groups such as NAMBLA was influential in the movement at the beginning.) You will note also, as in Rome or even the Spartans, that their empire or city-state eventually fell and before that the sexual perversion increased and culture degeneration happened.

You seem to have a pre-occupation with homosexuality, why is that? Is it important to you to know what consenting adults get up to in the privacy of their own homes?

I can show you far worse things done in a supposed 'normal' heterosexual relationship, so might be best to widen your net when it comes to finding targets of your alleged disgust.

[albrecht]

Stop you there; The paedophiles attached themselves to any activist group that they thought would give them a sympathetic ear in an age (Late 70's-mid 80's) when there was a widespread disillusionment with Reagan and Thatcher and their belief in 'trickle down economics'. Many millions of ordinary people felt (with some justification) they were thrown out of that alleged vision. We had vast marches here saving the whale, supporting the right to strike, supporting gays, lesbians, black people, yellow, green and purple along the way. There was an underground organisation by the name of PIE; Paedophile information exchange. This was long before the internet so they ran their seedy little crap from of all places.....Whitehall. Yep, one of their number worked in London and hid his membership list of their sick bastards in a filing cabinet in the office where he worked. No-one knew until after he was arrested and taken to court where a great deal of what he did was found out.

Anyway..PIE was such group that tried to attach itself to any body of protesters who it thought would let it tag along. That doesn't mean they succeeded, or that once it was found out who they were, didn't have fifty shades of shit kicked out of them.


You conflate that with being homosexual or lesbian (and probably bi sexual too); that you do, says far more about your profound and frankly nauseating ignorance than it does about homosexuality.
Incidentally, you haven't said who 'they' are who are pushing to get 'their' stuff put into schools.

You seem to have a pre-occupation with homosexuality, why is that? Is it important to you to know what consenting adults get up to in the privacy of their own homes?

I can show you far worse things done in a supposed 'normal' heterosexual relationship, so might be best to widen your net when it comes to finding targets of your alleged disgust.

I think, as long as children aren't involved, you can do whatever you wish sexually or otherwise (I think drugs should be legal for adults also) and certainly there are problems in normal families! But I also think people should be honest if they are in the public sphere since homosexuality and other perversions can open them up to political blackmail, espionage, etc as we've seen in the Cambridge case and so forth. And what you see in places like the Roman Catholic Church where these guys hid their feelings and abused so many over the decades.

But my obsession, as you call it, is because although the US government (CDC just released a study since homosexuals have a higher incidence of disease so they did the study) says 2% of the population identifies as such. So clearly there is an agenda not related to sexuality because there is this huge push to normalize perversion. It is simply a part of a larger agenda to push anything to help undermine the culture and therefore "western hegemony" and capitalism. As Gramsci, Frankfurt School, and many other people have written about. Use the culture, language (political correctness), and courts against the system. Undermine it from within and using their own tools. Why does our President spend so much time on this issue? An issue that effects 2% of the population? Why so much time and money? Why the Executive Orders? Why the Hollywood and media saturation? It is not about sexuality, really, but just another tool used in the program for leftism, or as Obama might say "fundamentally transform" the country.

[Yorkshire pud]

I think, as long as children aren't involved, you can do whatever you wish sexually or otherwise (I think drugs should be legal for adults also) and certainly there are problems in normal families! But I also think people should be honest if they are in the public sphere since homosexuality and other perversions can open them up to political blackmail, espionage, etc as we've seen in the Cambridge case and so forth. And what you see in places like the Roman Catholic Church where these guys hid their feelings and abused so many over the decades.

But my obsession, as you call it, is because although the US government (CDC just released a study since homosexuals have a higher incidence of disease so they did the study) says 2% of the population identifies as such. So clearly there is an agenda not related to sexuality because there is this huge push to normalize perversion. It is simply a part of a larger agenda to push anything to help undermine the culture and therefore "western hegemony" and capitalism. As Gramsci, Frankfurt School, and many other people have written about. Use the culture, language (political correctness), and courts against the system. Undermine it from within and using their own tools. Why does our President spend so much time on this issue? An issue that effects 2% of the population? Why so much time and money? Why the Executive Orders? Why the Hollywood and media saturation? It is not about sexuality, really, but just another tool used in the program for leftism, or as Obama might say "fundamentally transform" the country.

But homosexuality isn't a perversion. Get over it, then you can get into a discussion.

[albrecht]

But homosexuality isn't a perversion. Get over it, then you can get into a discussion.

Semantics. Whatever, is abnormal a better term? Even Obama's government says 2% so factually not the norm. So what is behind the agenda? The media attention. The lawsuits. The Executive Orders. The marches. It isn't about sex so much as just another tool to undermine the culture.

Anyway getting far from original thread which was why the administration seems to care more about illegals then even veterans. Again, not so much that Obama likes them (though he has many close relatives that were illegals) but sees a way to help undermine the country and culture.

[Yorkshire pud]

Semantics. Whatever, is abnormal a better term? Even Obama's government says 2% so factually not the norm. So what is behind the agenda? The media attention. The lawsuits. The Executive Orders. The marches. It isn't about sex so much as just another tool to undermine the culture.

Anyway getting far from original thread which was why the administration seems to care more about illegals then even veterans. Again, not so much that Obama likes them (though he has many close relatives that were illegals) but sees a way to help undermine the country and culture.

It isn't semantics; Perversion means it's not consensual or irrational. Consenting adults consent and do so rationally.

Of course it's about sex to you, if it wasn't you wouldn't bang on about it so much. What do you mean about culture? Whose culture? You have 320 million in the US, and you think they all should subscribe to what you think is right and decent? 

[albrecht]

It isn't semantics; Perversion means it's not consensual or irrational. Consenting adults consent and do so rationally.

Of course it's about sex to you, if it wasn't you wouldn't bang on about it so much. What do you mean about culture? Whose culture? You have 320 million in the US, and you think they all should subscribe to what you think is right and decent?

2% shouldn't force change to language,  law, tradition, and culture. Do what you wish but keep it in your bedroom or in private.

And treat veterans at least as well as we treat illegals.

[onan]

2% shouldn't force change to language,  law, tradition, and culture. Do what you wish but keep it in your bedroom or in private.

And treat veterans at least as well as we treat illegals.

We have no true culture in the good ole USA. Unless youthful drunkenness, and gun violence are culture. Treating veterans and illegals shouldn't have to be an either or. Take a look at how many times funding has been cut for the VA since Reagan.

And this is pretty interesting:

http://www.politicususa.com/2014/05/22/va-scandal-reveals-real-problem-republicans-wars-cost-math.html

[Yorkshire pud]

2% shouldn't force change to language,  law, tradition, and culture. Do what you wish but keep it in your bedroom or in private.

And treat veterans at least as well as we treat illegals.

Until 1924, women didn't have the vote..Until the 60's you still had segregation. Some still to this day think women shouldn't vote or black people be not treated the same as white. They both formed changes in law, in language, in culture and tradition.

So what if they make up 2% of the population; I don't know if that's true or not, (I suspect it's far more) but I'll take your word for it. That's still over six million people. Why shouldn't they be represented; you're using the tax they pay into the pot, or don't homosexuals pay tax? Or fight for the country? Or entertain you in music, sport, dance, TV, film or theatre? Or be doctors, nurses, engineers, pilots, ships captains, bio scientists, or teachers, college professors, bus drivers, taxi drivers, own restaurants, own places where you buy things from.....

You see; your blind hatred overlooks that one day YOU might probably need (And already have needed) one of those 'perverts'. 

[Catsmile]

>Sex
>Rational
Pick one.

[albrecht]

We have no true culture in the good ole USA. Unless youthful drunkenness, and gun violence are culture. Treating veterans and illegals shouldn't have to be an either or. Take a look at how many times funding has been cut for the VA since Reagan.

And this is pretty interesting:

http://www.politicususa.com/2014/05/22/va-scandal-reveals-real-problem-republicans-wars-cost-math.html

Yeah. I also recall some scheme in which Insurance and benefits for dead veterans would be invested in some private party without widow's knowledge in Bush years. It is crazy. They also hook vets on various drugs and then dismiss thrm for cause so they dont have to pay! There are limits to funds bht I hear you. Nobody (well some do I guess) wants to see people suffer but if I had to choose I would rather our money us spend on US citizens before we treat the world and illegals.

[pyewacket]

We have no true culture in the good ole USA. Unless youthful drunkenness, and gun violence are culture. Treating veterans and illegals shouldn't have to be an either or. Take a look at how many times funding has been cut for the VA since Reagan.

Could you clarify your position on no true culture? I'm not sure if I follow your conclusion. Yes, the very negative behaviours seem to dominate the news, but I don't think it represents the majority of Americans. I could be wrong. Sadly there has been an erosion of values and I think there's more than enough blame to go around.

I agree that veterans' benefits appear to be the first on the cutting block when they need to make a show of shrinking the budget. I'm going to check out your link. War has enormous costs that they don't tell anyone about when they're beating the drums for war again and again. Eisenhower warned us.   

[albrecht]

speaking on veterans and how the government treats them read up on the Bonus Army and how they were treated. We have a long, sordid history of maltreatment of those used in wars.

[onan]

Could you clarify your position on no true culture? I'm not sure if I follow your conclusion. Yes, the very negative behaviours seem to dominate the news, but I don't think it represents the majority of Americans. I could be wrong. Sadly there has been an erosion of values and I think there's more than enough blame to go around.

I agree that veterans' benefits appear to be the first on the cutting block when they need to make a show of shrinking the budget. I'm going to check out your link. War has enormous costs that they don't tell anyone about when they're beating the drums for war again and again. Eisenhower warned us.   

You tell me. What do you see as a cultural heritage?

[pyewacket]

You tell me. What do you see as a cultural heritage?

Let me take a bit of time to get back to you. I'm not ignoring your question, I just don't know where to start as I think we have a rich cultural mix that we're in danger of losing.

[pyewacket]

I'm not a sociologist but I do remember some of the elements covered in related studies. Cultures are created by many facets that make up social organization. Broken down into sub sets, we could list: family, religious groups, social classes, trades/occupations, friends and associates, education, government. there are probably more that I've overlooked. Once these start to break down along with language barriers - negative sub cultures form. Some are benign others are centered on anti social, criminal, or cultish memes that contribute to cultural breakdown. I don't see how this can be good for any of us.

We see this playing out in urban centers, but it's getting more widespread. If we can't find common ground and values to keep us as an intact society, we'll become a balkanized country.

Edited to add:
I left out literature, music, art- these have changed over the years, too. They can influence people as much as political rhetoric.


 

[Unquenchable Angst]

none here seem to understand what is going on and all are victims of the game being played on all of you.


ILLUMINATI GOES PUBLIC WITH NWO: MUST WATCH!! PT.1/10