Malaysian Air MH17 crash

[Kelt]

Fuck it. I need Pegasus.

I can source you a horse and a hang-glider.

[Camazotz Automat]

I can source you a horse and a hang-glider.

As long as it doesn't relieve itself over Capitol Hill.

Because they will shoot me down in retaliation.

[Kelt]

I cannot guarantee that.  I will throw in some Anti-missile flares though.

20:27: BBC Monitoring reports more from the conversation between militants allegedly intercepted by the Ukrainian Security Service.
The conversation starts with Igor Bezler, a key militant, apparently telling a Russian security official by phone that the pro-Russian militants have shot down a plane.

[Eddie Coyle]

    The rebels shot down the plane to impress Slender Man.

[VtaGeezer]

As others have said, the region is under close satellite scrutiny because Putin still has a couple divisions on the border and invasion is still a possibility.  The sats would instantly see the Buk (?) track radars light up, and the the IR sigs from the launch.  I figure we/NATO will give Putin a couple days for a come-to-Jesus moment before releasing the evidence.  I also think Putin couldn't give a fuck what anyone outside Greater Mother Russia cares.

PS - Israel has just send troops into Gaza.

[Eddie Coyle]

If the Skunk Works conspiracy theorists are half right right, we have the technology to construct plenty of giant black triangle rigid airships that could be enjoyed by civilians instead of being utilized as helicopter-carrier release platforms.  What exactly, DID Art Bell see in the desert, other than some type of high tech dirigible/aerostat?

Fuck it. I need Pegasus.

      Larry Walters and his balloons are the future.

       http://www.overdriveonline.com/files/2012/09/220px-Larry_Walters.jpg

[Yorkshire pud]

Thing is, if a SAM is launched from an area where two sides are in open conflict how do you determine the loyalties of the small team who launched the missile... assuming there's even hi-res recon images showing them pulling the trigger in glorious Technicolorâ,,¢?

It'll be known who did it already, but from on-the-ground intel rather than overflights by satellites or Spy Planes.

How the info is disseminated will depend entirely on political prudence rather than culpability.

I still think whoever fired it mistook the airliner for a Ukrainian transport aircraft; Unless they had very high powered binoculars and a good gimble to mount it on, to keep it in sight, I doubt they'd know what it was, and just assume it was a target to try out the missile.

I don't think it's a conspiracy, I think it's sheer incompetence; the cover up will have started after the shooting down. No-one is claiming anything.

[Foodlion]

I still think whoever fired it mistook the airliner for a Ukrainian transport aircraft; Unless they had very high powered binoculars and a good gimble to mount it on, to keep it in sight, I doubt they'd know what it was, and just assume it was a target to try out the missile.

I don't think it's a conspiracy, I think it's sheer incompetence; the cover up will have started after the shooting down. No-one is claiming anything.

That's exactly my thoughts. Somebody needs a better pair of Binocs, or a digital telescope at least. This was a major SNAFU and nothing more.

[Robert Ghostwolf's Ghost]

I yearn for leisurely travel by zeppelin. What is everybody's rush?

I've yearned for a zeppelin luxury passenger line for a long time.  I was fortunate enough to travel from Chicago to L.A. on one of the last Union Pacific passenger trains, complete with Pullman compartment and elegant dining car when I was a wee lad. I'd been on lots of trains and was disappointed we weren't flying because I hadn't done that yet, but it was a wonderful trip and I'm grateful every day to my parents for insisting on it.  I think a leisurely zeppelin cruise would top that, even though it would undoubtedly cost a small fortune.

[Robert Ghostwolf's Ghost]

I can source you a horse and a hang-glider.

LMAO every time I picture it!  What a great image!

[VtaGeezer]

I still think whoever fired it mistook the airliner for a Ukrainian transport aircraft; Unless they had very high powered binoculars and a good gimble to mount it on, to keep it in sight, I doubt they'd know what it was, and just assume it was a target to try out the missile.

I don't think it's a conspiracy, I think it's sheer incompetence; the cover up will have started after the shooting down. No-one is claiming anything.

Spot on. A monumental act of stupidity and incompetence. The question is; how far up the Russian chain-of-command does the stupidity and incompetence go?  Makes one wonder who has the keys to Russian nukes.

[someguy]

I still think whoever fired it mistook the airliner for a Ukrainian transport aircraft; Unless they had very high powered binoculars and a good gimble to mount it on, to keep it in sight, I doubt they'd know what it was, and just assume it was a target to try out the missile.

I don't think it's a conspiracy, I think it's sheer incompetence; the cover up will have started after the shooting down. No-one is claiming anything.

Dude, it wasn't a shoulder missile or something, the plane was shot down by one of these:


Anti-aircraft missile system "Buk"

[VtaGeezer]

Dude, it wasn't a shoulder missile or something, the plane was shot down by one of these:


Anti-aircraft missile system "Buk"

Yep.  The whole parade shown in the vid is the Buk missile unit...it's not an impromptu affair to launch one of these babies.

[Kelt]

...or, the 'Russian Separatists' have been reduced to a pocket in Eastern Ukraine by Ukranian operations, and they need a little breathing room to bring more Russian Special Forces and materials across the border... they shoot down a passing airliner, and immediately offer "a ceasefire for several days while an investigation is conducted" while they use the ceasefire to bring in aforementioned men and material.

Ukraine can either refuse a ceasefire and go for the throat, making them look like the bad guys... or they can agree to a ceasefire and lose the initiative.

[Yorkshire pud]

Dude, it wasn't a shoulder missile or something, the plane was shot down by one of these:

I didn't suggest it wasn't.

[someguy]

I didn't suggest it wasn't.

Just clarifying how difficult it'd be to make a mistake or be incompetent. I thought it was a shoulder rocket then I looked it up and was like wow it got shot down by some metal gear solid shit

[VtaGeezer]

...or, the 'Russian Separatists' have been reduced to a pocket in Eastern Ukraine by Ukranian operations, and they need a little breathing room to bring more Russian Special Forces and materials across the border... they shoot down a passing airliner, and immediately offer "a ceasefire for several days while an investigation is conducted" while they use the ceasefire to bring in aforementioned men and material.

Ukraine can either refuse a ceasefire and go for the throat, making them look like the bad guys... or they can agree to a ceasefire and lose the initiative.

I don't think so.  There's reportedly a huge battle brewing over the city of Doneskt, and Putin has sent in armor, artillery, and SAM hardware to the rebels.  Of course, many of the "rebels" are just trained Russian troops in cheap jeans.

[Yorkshire pud]

Just clarifying how difficult it'd be to make a mistake or be incompetent. I thought it was a shoulder rocket then I looked it up and was like wow it got shot down by some metal gear solid shit

Ultimately it needs eyes on or electronic identification. Experience and training..IF these Russian friendly separatists have only just got this system (as in the last week or even month) it's unlikely they have had sufficient of either. New wiz bang toy that goes wooosh, and no brains to use it. No way would a Western AAM crew be allowed to go live with it in a week or a month. I doubt really the Russians would. These are not Russian trained troops, they're hoping to be become part of Russia again.

[bateman]

Moment of impact:


http://youtu.be/-hbAirCuNnA

Falling debris:


http://youtu.be/dPu1dhje3Po

[VtaGeezer]

These are not Russian trained troops, they're hoping to be become part of Russia again.

Most accept that there are a large number of Russian regulars among the rebels. 

[paladin1991]

Heard as many as 23 Americans aboard.  80 children on board.

[Kelt]

154 Dutch.

[Yorkshire pud]

Most accept that there are a large number of Russian regulars among the rebels.

We don't know though if any were trained to use the system used though. This is a pretty complex piece of kit, and if some hot headed drunk has been put in charge all hell is let loose. I'm not saying that is the case, but it looks likely whoever pressed 'go' wasn't switched on.

[Yorkshire pud]

Heard as many as 23 Americans aboard.  80 children on board.

295 people. Their nationalities are irrelevant.

[Kelt]

I think what's important is that many of the dead are citizens of NATO countries.

[wr250]

I think what's important is that many of the dead are citizens of NATO countries.

i think whats important is they had absolutely  nothing to do with the Ukraine conflict. they were civilians, non military and not a legit target.
morbid george is going to be extra gleeful tonight i think.  :\

[paladin1991]

295 people. Their nationalities are irrelevant.

Maybe to you. 
The nationalities are important.  Who is going to get the most political mileage out of their murders?  80 kids is the last report I have on this side of the pond.  Is that a lot?  Seems to be a high number of kids.  The civvie flights I've taken never seem to have that many kids.   

[paladin1991]

i think whats important is they had absolutely  nothing to do with the Ukraine conflict. they were civilians, non military and not a legit target.
morbid george is going to be extra gleeful tonight i think.  :\

Oh crap..  For a short horrified time I'd forgotten about him.

[George Drooly]

Heard as many as 23 Americans aboard.  80 children on board.

Let's not start with the "children" business. A life is a life.

[Kelt]

Personally I would consider the life of a child to be above that of an adult.

Regardless...

UK has requested emergency meeting of UN Security Council, and its been granted. Convening tomorrow morning.

Big Boy shit.