Why work for money? I don't believe in working. Work is for Suckers

[NowhereInTime]

The thing I don't understand is these people are the product of over 100,000 years of humans who provided for themselves and were at least able to raise their kids to do the same.  Those who didn't mostly died off and didn't reproduce.  They are the product of natural selection among humans.

So how is it we have million and millions of people like this in the current generation who are unable to take care of themselves?

Somewhere along the line they themselves and/or their parents were led to lives of dependency and a complete lack of responsibility.  The people responsible are either the parents, these people themselves, or the people supporting the handout policies that created all this.  Or all three.


Maybe it's time to stop electing Liberals and elect people who will begin generating policies that teach people to support themselves and end all this dependency

Yes.  There it is.  Let's "cull the herd". Conservatism at it's most honest.
Can we start with the grouchy shut-ins, first?

[Sumthins Goin On]

Yes.  There it is.  Let's "cull the herd". Conservatism at it's most honest.
Can we start with the grouchy shut-ins, first?

Like the Veterans who have done their time, some several tours and those who are disabled. Let's push them aside like we have seen in the last few months.
This current regime with its corrupt lying bullshit "we can't find the emails" "oh the hard drives are gone" totally sucks.
I'm sure this will make me a target for government scrutiny now that I have posted this.

[albrecht]

Like the Veterans who have done their time, some several tours and those who are disabled. Let's push them aside like we have seen in the last few months.
This current regime with its corrupt lying bullshit "we can't find the emails" "oh the hard drives are gone" totally sucks.
I'm sure this will make me a target for government scrutiny now that I have posted this.

We want to spend untold millions taking care of illegal aliens but tell veterans to get onto secret waiting lists so they can die-off. Priorities?

[NowhereInTime]

Like the Veterans who have done their time, some several tours and those who are disabled. Let's push them aside like we have seen in the last few months.

Hey, take that up with Paper*Boy.  His suggestion; I'm just shedding light on the reality.

This current regime with its corrupt lying bullshit "we can't find the emails" "oh the hard drives are gone" totally sucks.
I'm sure this will make me a target for government scrutiny now that I have posted this.

Yeah, because the government really gives a rat's ass about your crackpot ranting.
The "current regime" can't find the e-mails because they are bullshit. Like all of Congress' time and treasure wasting investigations.
The only thing happening in Congress is a never ending warpath trying, desperately, to find that Democratic Watergate.
Will never happen. Doesn't stop Darrell Issa from pissing away your tax dollars trying, though.
Outrage, anyone?

[Sumthins Goin On]

Yeah, because the government really gives a rat's ass about your crackpot ranting.

And if you are of a particular side of the fence i.e. D or R, I am an equal opportunity offender,  They all suck.
So please don't think I am either one.

No I'm sure they don't but everything is crawled for key words and phrases. I just don't need to be flagged for whatever reason is on their checklist. Computers never forget.

[NowhereInTime]

And if you are of a particular side of the fence i.e. D or R, I am an equal opportunity offender,  They all suck.
So please don't think I am either one.

No I'm sure they don't but everything is crawled for key words and phrases. I just don't need to be flagged for whatever reason is on their checklist. Computers never forget.

No, didn't really care about your persuasion, just the overly aware sense of self.  Look, you're right about the stupid ass feds wasting waaayyy too much time combing through everyone's internet trash.
I just don't understand why everyone thinks they are so important that Obama's Negro Army is coming to throw them in FEMA camps.

[Sumthins Goin On]

Never said they were coming after me... I said that I don't need flags. Take it from someone who because of an identical name, and recently a home purchase on a property that has assholes living in it 3 years ago, I have been harassed because of information which was incorrect.

So I leave you to your own words:
    "Peace and Long Life..."

[albrecht]

I just don't understand why everyone thinks they are so important that Obama's Negro Army is coming to throw them in FEMA camps.

That one made me laugh. Great line! Classic. I'm going to start using it in conversations, if I may. The ONA is coming to take you to FEMA camps! Haha.

[pyewacket]

Sadly, that's one hell of a good point. She serves best out of the work force.

On the flip side, she can play the guitar and 5 other musical interments.

Fucked up 

She'll never go hungry with that kind of talent.

Isn't this an example of what Nancy Pelosi said was so great about people only finding part time jobs? They would then be free to pursue their talents and dreams of being artists, writers, and anything they'd like. She's living the dream!
 

[pyewacket]

Sorry to be flippant about an issue that is very serious for the individuals affected by it and our society as a whole. There's plenty of blame to go around. Too much corruption- you can't expect a law abiding populace if the government ignores the laws.

We will always have people on varying levels of intelligence, mental health, abilities, etc. We need to catch this in school when there is a better chance of helping these kids. Stop with the PC crap and divide the students into groups that will best train/educate them to make their way in life. Not all students are going to be college material. Look at them as people and try to find what abilities they have to develop.

If some people are truly unemployable- then maybe they do need to be housed in a supervised environment and directed in an orderly routine. I know it sounds bad but what is a better alternative? Let them be self destructive or engage in criminal behaviour? Some may not be all that bad until they fall in with the wrong sort. Maybe they do need a "keeper" to shield them from destructive influences. It sounds extreme, but how else do we even begin to tackle this problem. Maybe some of them will feel that someone actually cares about them for the first time in their lives.

All of this is not possible unless we have real concern as a society and as a government to solve the problems. Accountability is essential not only for the recipients but also for those who administer the programs. This would go a long way in reforming a broken system.

[NowhereInTime]

Never said they were coming after me... I said that I don't need flags. Take it from someone who because of an identical name, and recently a home purchase on a property that has assholes living in it 3 years ago, I have been harassed because of information which was incorrect.

So I leave you to your own words:
    "Peace and Long Life..."

... Live Long and Prosper.

[Yorkshire pud]

Sorry to be flippant about an issue that is very serious for the individuals affected by it and our society as a whole. There's plenty of blame to go around. Too much corruption- you can't expect a law abiding populace if the government ignores the laws.

Agree

We will always have people on varying levels of intelligence, mental health, abilities, etc. We need to catch this in school when there is a better chance of helping these kids. Stop with the PC crap and divide the students into groups that will best train/educate them to make their way in life. Not all students are going to be college material. Look at them as people and try to find what abilities they have to develop.

Agree

If some people are truly unemployable- then maybe they do need to be housed in a supervised environment and directed in an orderly routine. I know it sounds bad but what is a better alternative? Let them be self destructive or engage in criminal behaviour? Some may not be all that bad until they fall in with the wrong sort. Maybe they do need a "keeper" to shield them from destructive influences. It sounds extreme, but how else do we even begin to tackle this problem. Maybe some of them will feel that someone actually cares about them for the first time in their lives.

Agree in principle; but vetting keepers or mentors would be a mammoth undertaking.

All of this is not possible unless we have real concern as a society and as a government to solve the problems. Accountability is essential not only for the recipients but also for those who administer the programs. This would go a long way in reforming a broken system.

The profit has to be taken out of it, and compassion, motivation and empathy the main ingredients.

[Heather Wade]

Any idiot can score a job, even the 'lady' in the video.  The point is, she is not trying. 
Been lurkening on this very interesting thread, there are valid points that have been made.

It is unfortunate that people like her have lost the will to try.  However, I hold no love for
such a mentality.  If jobs are for suckers, than so are paychecks, and I will gladly be labeled as a such
with paycheck in hand.

[Foodlion]

... Live Long and Prosper.

That saying is so overdue for the 21st century.

Here's the new one for 2014.

lay on couch, get fat, and become a pink hippopotamus that does not give a fuck about any single thing in this world.

Now that is something the new generation can grasp.

[albrecht]

Sorry to be flippant about an issue that is very serious for the individuals affected by it and our society as a whole. There's plenty of blame to go around. Too much corruption- you can't expect a law abiding populace if the government ignores the laws.

We will always have people on varying levels of intelligence, mental health, abilities, etc. We need to catch this in school when there is a better chance of helping these kids. Stop with the PC crap and divide the students into groups that will best train/educate them to make their way in life. Not all students are going to be college material. Look at them as people and try to find what abilities they have to develop.

If some people are truly unemployable- then maybe they do need to be housed in a supervised environment and directed in an orderly routine. I know it sounds bad but what is a better alternative? Let them be self destructive or engage in criminal behaviour? Some may not be all that bad until they fall in with the wrong sort. Maybe they do need a "keeper" to shield them from destructive influences. It sounds extreme, but how else do we even begin to tackle this problem. Maybe some of them will feel that someone actually cares about them for the first time in their lives.

All of this is not possible unless we have real concern as a society and as a government to solve the problems. Accountability is essential not only for the recipients but also for those who administer the programs. This would go a long way in reforming a broken system.

Many, if not most, other countries do this to one extent or another. They are the ones who seem to beat our schoolchildren in those test survey on math, science, etc.

The problem is convincing a parent that their child is cut out to be a welder (not that there is a darn thing wrong with being a welder) and not a doctor or professor. Some of the countries you take a fairly major test at a young age (like 11 or 12) that will determine whether you go on to the more "academic" high-school or into a more trade-school like path. Imagine that for many people their career or academic life comes down to a test or evaluation at a young age! In some countries these tests cause suicides and lots of stress in families. And it is not the "American" way to think that "everybody" can't make something of themselves, rise above their station, re-invent one's self, has second chances, etc, so hard to convince society that this is the way to go. But surely we can find some middle-ground that helps identify what a student's abilities and desires are and match an appropriate path. The other problem with these types of programs if improperly managed can result in minorities being "steered" down the trade-craft route.

As for allowing the criminal, "special needs", or the illiterate to be in the "normal" classes is crazy, to me. If the student doesn't behave he needs to go to a reform school or at least separate class. If an illegal can't speak English they should be in their own class (since we must give them an education apparently.) If the "special needs" is holding up the class with outbursts or not keeping up to pace with the rest of the class they should be in a separate class. But especially for the criminal disruptive types because that is willfully sabotaging the class for the other students.

Regarding those already "gone" or those with mental or physical handicaps or those hopelessly addicted. We need to start treating drugs/alcohol as a health problem. I support programs like they do in some countries where hardcore junkies are even give a "fix" in government facilities. At some point some people are too far gone. And this cuts down on crime, stops spread of diseases, and cuts the drug-dealer from the equation. I think Seattle (?) has set up housing for the chronic drunks. Amsterdam is letting them "work for beer" by cleaning up the parks. I don't know. Safer than them being on the street, maybe committing crimes, maybe getting more hurt themselves?

[SciFiAuthor]

I don't know how to say this without being rude, so I'll apologize in advance; he's your friend, not mine. You have the opportunity to prevent waste and fraud and are doing nothing about it, so how is that my fault?  Because we have a welfare system he can game?  As if someone like that couldn't figure out another grift?

Everything he's doing is legal. All you need is a diagnosis of too depressed to work and you've won. Diagnoses are easy to get, and it's a lot harder to prove someone is faking chronic depression than to get diagnosed as having it. It's actually not the only case of this that I know of, a friend's brother is on benefits from having MS. No one in the family believes he actually has it and he's been asymptomatic for years. Somehow he got diagnosed, and that's all that's needed. Now, I need to caveat that there are completely legitimate cases where welfare is needed and that's fine by me. But there's a lot that aren't.

I agree we need better review processes to eliminate fraud, but it would help if conscientious citizens wold speak up, too.
Talk about in theory.  You're right.  In theory.  Then you run into a painful reality called logistics, where this is very expensive, laborious, time consuming and, ultimately, inefficient.  Think 'disaster relief".  Think "refugee camps".  Logistical nightmares, open to theft, corruption, and contamination.  That's why stores rely on wholesalers and, even then, there are issues.So let's sink to the level of the Republican politician and blame these people for all of America's troubles.

Yeah, but your system on your side prevents you from ever creating a better review process. Your politicians are buying votes with benefits. So long as they do that, then the last thing your politicians are going to want is better oversight of a system that they want as many people as possible dependent on. There's a reason they head into the poor areas talking about how they need to get out and vote or the Republicans will take their welfare away. Your hands are tied by your own institutional corruption. As far as logistics, bah, Michelle pulled it off in the educational system with nary a logistical problem cropping up. Ever heard of government cheese? That phrase came about because the precursor to EBT was in part a direct distribution of food aid. That practice survived into the 90's. So no, it's not in theory, it was in practice until someone decided that it's better for the election results if you give the bribe voters an EBT card to buy whatever food they like. Next time you're in line at the grocery store and you see someone paying with an EBT card, take a look in the cart and see what they're buying.

No, you are correct here. However, how do you create a neutral arbiter for not only helping people with needs, but getting them to a point of contribution to society and a sense of dignity and self worth, then?

I'm not even sure you'd need a neutral one. Just quit trying to get your politicians elected by bribing lazy asses, tighten up the system a bit, and create work programs and incentives to get off welfare and we'd be doing ok. Obviously there will be those that are permanently too ill to work, but I bear no ill will towards them. Any of us could get hit with a debilitating condition, so the system should take care of those people. But as long as it remains political, it will remain corrupt and more and more will go on the rolls.

I wouldn't because the current GOP couldn't care less about these people. Well, that, and you somehow all believe an ever-shrinking portion of the population will firmly reestablish white hegemony so you can go back to calling blacks "boy', slapping pretty girls in the ass at the office, throwing the poor into debtors prisons, and claiming any damn piece of land you'd like if some redskin menace is on it. 

I think it would be more accurate that the current GOP resents these people. By and large we're the ones footing the bill for these people's lives and we know they won't ever vote Republican, but we can't do jack shit about fixing it because your crook politicians use the broken system to keep themselves in office. As to the rest of it, while most of it is just your usual blithering simplistic bullshit, I need to point out that the Democrats have a bad history with the Indians. Andrew Jackson actually took such perverse pleasure in annihilating them that he acquired the nicknames "Indian Killer" and "Sharp Knife". You might want to take that one off the canned corny attack list, eventually it's going to offend someone.

To this day, I do not know what you guys mean about "less government" or this obsession with the states as ultimate political entities in our nation.
Gosh, I wonder why?  In this very post you've called me corrupt and say that I support a party who intentionally keeps people dependent to sustain votes.  You ascribe characteristics endemic to the conservative personality and presume everyone shares that innate nastiness.  One of these days I'm hoping that you'll understand that liberals are not the opportunistic cynics that conservatives are (or at least we didn't use to be until conservatism declared war on liberalism) and that we do, genuinely, seek peace and justice.  You're right, people do game the system.  We should do a better job of vetting applicants and reviewing their status.  You're wrong; most of these people don't vote.  Don't kid yourself. Voter turnouts in areas with urban poor barely reach into the teens for registered voters, let alone the whole population.  If some opportunist would figure that out, conservatism would be dead by the next election.  So, again, we get back to the idea of forsaking these people?  Do you really think it's wise to ignore "47%" of the country?  What good will come of that?

It's very simple. Decentralized local government is more efficient and far superior to centralized government. It's a better idea to have your local mayor, feet on ground, calling shots than it is for Obama to issue a decree. Obama doesn't know you, he can't help you with your specific problems better than the mayor can. So keep the power and ability local and subject to local choice. If it's something of a bigger scope than local can accomplish, then go to the state. If the state can't do it, then go to the federal government. We do not need a federal Department of Education, we need state departments. We do not need a federal welfare system, we need the welfare system within the control of the states and cities where managment sees and understands the problems at hand.

As far as the voters, um, no. It doesn't matter if the percentage is low, what matters is that it defines elections now. That's why you spend so much time, effort and money in low-income areas to get out the vote. You would not win elections if you didn't. And, well, having seen plenty of your propaganda and heard the phone calls, none of what you're telling those people is the truth. It's scaremongering and lies designed to steal elections. That's corruption, and now my side is resorting to it with Cochran because that's how you win in this once great country that our politicians have turned into a corrupt shithole. It may be a corrupt shithole for all, but at some point it will just be run like Mexico and that very 47% will be ones who suffer the most from your inept leftwing crap you've foisted on us all through corrupting the system in the first place.

Actually, if we ignored the 47% about half of them would find jobs and then we'd know which ones need the help. I half joke, but the truth is I don't think you can ignore them, that's why I say we go back to more hands on methods. But you also can't use them, and you guys are using them just to gain power. I think I'd rather be ignored than used.

[PB the Deplorable]

... It's very simple. Decentralized local government is more efficient and far superior to centralized government....

My god man!  Are we still allowed to say this?

[WOTR]

...That phrase came about because the precursor to EBT was in part a direct distribution of food aid. That practice survived into the 90's. So no, it's not in theory, it was in practice until someone decided that it's better for the election results if you give the bribe voters an EBT card to buy whatever food they like. Next time you're in line at the grocery store and you see someone paying with an EBT card, take a look in the cart and see what they're buying.

Or, you could just follow the money.  I am so glad that you brought up the EBT card.  Do you honestly believe that it was brought in to bribe voters, or do you think it was a kick back to large financial institutions who support politicians getting elected?

You see, I ask only because JP Morgan had raked in over half a billion as of a few years ago (I recalled reading the article a few years back and found it again.  I'm sure the number is now much higher.)

Now, it could be that they wanted to bribe voters, but... "The GAI report... says JP Morgan’s political donations to members of the House and Senate Agriculture Committees (who oversee the food stamp program) skyrocketed once the bank entered the EBT market:"  They doubled their political contributions to those who gave them a half billion dollar business.  This is one of the few times I side with Noory and say "there are no coincidences."

Now, I'm certain that JP Morgan is trying it's best.  However... "the GAI report reveals that JP Morgan does not use the same fraud detection systems commonly used by today’s credit card companies..."

Oh, and also.. "When you (call a JP Morgan service center for the EBT cards), there is a very good chance that you are going to be helped by a JP Morgan call center employee in India.  That's right - it turns out that JP Morgan is saving money by "outsourcing" food stamp customer service calls to India."  It is nice to seen them refusing to give employment to Americans while collecting fees from service to poor Americans.

Finally, the conclusion that JP Morgan reached wondering if they would continue to be profitable if the economy recovered was that 40% of the recipients were employed and had jobs.  (Basically, as long as wages stay low and service jobs are the only thing created they will keep profiting.)

Perhaps my favourite part was (what I found to be a great conclusion.) By making welfare inefficiency and abuse lucrative, the poverty industry has created a potentially toxic brew of corporate cronyism and government inefficiency

Links for reading.
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/10/01/Report-JP-Morgan-Makes-Over-Half-A-Billion-Dollars-Off-Food-Stamps

http://www.g-a-i.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/GAI-Report-ProfitsfromPoverty-FINAL.pdf
http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/the-more-americans-that-go-on-food-stamps-the-more-money-jp-morgan-makes

[SciFiAuthor]

Or, you could just follow the money.  I am so glad that you brought up the EBT card.  Do you honestly believe that it was brought in to bribe voters, or do you think it was a kick back to large financial institutions who support politicians getting elected?

Funny enough the very first food stamp program was actually a kickback to farmers more than a benefit to recipients. It still technically is, which is why SNAP is still run by the Department of Agriculture. Unfortunately, the program doesn't favor our crops anymore, so it's actually just a subsidy to foreign food producers these days and corporate megafarms. There are always shenanigans going on, of course and I'm not surprised about JP Morgan. However, I also see the Dem politicians using it to their political advantage. They always have, the food stamp act from 1964 had provisions for prohibiting luxury foods and soft drinks from being covered, but they were removed in the senate version of the bill. But yes, I honestly believe it had something to do with bribing voters, because that's what the end effect is. Vote for me, or they'll take your welfare away. It was probably a win-win screwing of the American people, JP Morgan gets a kickback and the Dem politicians further strengthen their hold on the votes of the aid recipients.

[WOTR]

...But yes, I honestly believe it had something to do with bribing voters, because that's what the end effect is. Vote for me, or they'll take your welfare away. It was probably a win-win screwing of the American people, JP Morgan gets a kickback and the Dem politicians further strengthen their hold on the votes of the aid recipients.

Interestingly, I believe that the cards were brought in 2002.  This would mean that it was a Republican congress, a Republican senate and Bush as president.  Pretty stupid of them to bribe the voters to vote Democrat... The original program would have been brought in under Democrat control- but the update that helped spread the wealth to mega banks was a great Republican idea.

[SciFiAuthor]

Interestingly, I believe that the cards were brought in 2002.  This would mean that it was a Republican congress, a Republican senate and Bush as president.  Pretty stupid of them to bribe the voters to vote Democrat... The original program would have been brought in under Democrat control- but the update that helped spread the wealth to mega banks was a great Republican idea.

Actually started in the late 90's under Clinton and became an issue of privatization under Bush as the states individually implemented it. And yes, it was pretty stupid, but the establishment GOP has a long history of acting stupidly in political machinations. Look at the current border dispute, two groups of politicians that fundamentally agree but refuse to agree for show. The Democrats are simply better at all of this because they have something to offer as a bribe. Conservative ideology by it's nature doesn't have anything to buy a vote with. We can buy a corporation, but we can't buy a vote. Well, up until Cochran. Now, I guess we buy our votes too. Corruption.

[onan]

All you need is a diagnosis of too depressed to work and you've won. Diagnoses are easy to get, and it's a lot harder to prove someone is faking chronic depression than to get diagnosed as having it.

This isn't accurate. It is difficult to remain objective when personal experience suggests a different point of view. In reality:  Close to three quarters of applicants are turned down initially and even after appeal, 60 percent of applicants are denied benefits.

Disability is easy to beat up on, no one that drags their ass to work every day wants to hear someone gets money for less suffering than self perception allows.

[wr250]

This isn't accurate. It is difficult to remain objective when personal experience suggests a different point of view. In reality:  Close to three quarters of applicants are turned down initially and even after appeal, 60 percent of applicants are denied benefits.

Disability is easy to beat up on, no one that drags their ass to work every day wants to hear someone gets money for less suffering than self perception allows.

i agree. i knew a guy , a double amputee/paraplegic, who got a letter saying he was no longer disabled. he got himself down to the place and showed the letter , then said "i dont see any legs here".

i also know a guy that got right on, within a month. but he had a stack of papers 4" thick, mostly heart problems (he had had 2 double bypasses, and a third bypass as well)

[NowhereInTime]

My god man!  Are we still allowed to say this?

You can say it until you're blue in the face.  Doesn't make it right.

[NowhereInTime]

That saying is so overdue for the 21st century.

Here's the new one for 2014.

lay on couch, get fat, and become a pink hippopotamus that does not give a fuck about any single thing in this world.

Now that is something the new generation can grasp.

Except that cynicism does not reflect my belief.  I still believe, ultimately, we will become a better society once we stop competing along racial and class lines and develop a true pride in being American.
So, peace and long life; live long and prosper.  It may seem quaint, but it's one of the greatest salutations ever created.

[albrecht]

This isn't accurate. It is difficult to remain objective when personal experience suggests a different point of view. In reality:  Close to three quarters of applicants are turned down initially and even after appeal, 60 percent of applicants are denied benefits.

Disability is easy to beat up on, no one that drags their ass to work every day wants to hear someone gets money for less suffering than self perception allows.

Yeah, I think this is accurate. People, or their families, even hire lawyers and specialists to work through the system to get approved for benefits for things that are more subjective or not as easily proven (like certain mental conditions.)

[NowhereInTime]

Everything he's doing is legal. All you need is a diagnosis of too depressed to work and you've won. Diagnoses are easy to get, and it's a lot harder to prove someone is faking chronic depression than to get diagnosed as having it. It's actually not the only case of this that I know of, a friend's brother is on benefits from having MS. No one in the family believes he actually has it and he's been asymptomatic for years. Somehow he got diagnosed, and that's all that's needed. Now, I need to caveat that there are completely legitimate cases where welfare is needed and that's fine by me. But there's a lot that aren't.

Fine.  Let's encourage lawmakers to redouble efforts at authorizing inspectors general to rigorously approve and periodically review
folks on public assistance.  Violators should be prosecuted.

Yeah, but your system on your side prevents you from ever creating a better review process. Your politicians are buying votes with benefits. So long as they do that, then the last thing your politicians are going to want is better oversight of a system that they want as many people as possible dependent on. There's a reason they head into the poor areas talking about how they need to get out and vote or the Republicans will take their welfare away. Your hands are tied by your own institutional corruption.

They do photo-ops in poor areas to guilt white people in the suburbs.  You cannot be so ignorant as to believe there is high turnout in poor areas.  Do just a smidge of research.

As far as logistics, bah, Michelle pulled it off in the educational system with nary a logistical problem cropping up. Ever heard of government cheese? That phrase came about because the precursor to EBT was in part a direct distribution of food aid. That practice survived into the 90's. So no, it's not in theory

Bah, yourself.  Again, just a smidge of research.  I realize as a fiction author the concept is alien to you, but if you do some research you will realize that food handouts were very limited (sometimes to just cheese) because there was no way to deliver fresh food to so many people in need.  Rot, theft, vermin, insects.  Too much food is wasted in this process.  City Harvest, in NYC, has a decent capability but they are retrieving food and redistributing it within a 20 block radius, usually.  Not practical in Clay County, KY.

The EBT card (which is abused) was designed to allow recipients to use the existing logistics of grocery stores to get a more rounded meal.

...it was in practice until someone decided that it's better for the election results if you give the bribe voters an EBT card to buy whatever food they like. Next time you're in line at the grocery store and you see someone paying with an EBT card, take a look in the cart and see what they're buying.

I'll go you one better.  I was a Store Manager for a Rite Aid store in Bridgeport, CT a while back.  One day, this 6 ft 4 guy comes bounding into my store at around 1pm.  He asks for a pack of Newports and hands me a CT EBT card.  Back then, the state didn't limit purchases on the grounds that one purchase was as good as another, so long as the money circulated back into the economy.  Not knowing this, I assumed cigarettes weren't allowed on EBT and refused the sale.  Guy stormed out in a rage, called the company 1-800 line to complain, and the next day my DM was in my office writing me up for failure to properly serve a customer.  I told him I didn't realize we could sell tobacco products on state assistance cards.  He told me it wasn't my job to worry about it, so long as the tender was accepted by the POS system.

That, by the way, one of many reasons why I hate corporate America.  Just grub the money.  Bitch about people on payouts but grub those dollars; talk out of both sides of the mouth. 

At least the state has since, in fact, rescinded tobacco products from EBT. 

I'm not even sure you'd need a neutral one. Just quit trying to get your politicians elected by bribing lazy asses, tighten up the system a bit, and create work programs and incentives to get off welfare and we'd be doing ok. Obviously there will be those that are permanently too ill to work, but I bear no ill will towards them. Any of us could get hit with a debilitating condition, so the system should take care of those people. But as long as it remains political, it will remain corrupt and more and more will go on the rolls.

Talk about lazy, this repeated assertion about getting "my politicians" elected by public assistance "bribery" is cheap and lazy.  You really need to check turnouts in predominately poorer areas.  Even in Presidentials they are hideously low.
I'm not kidding.  If some socialist zealot could stir these people to some passion, get them to register, and get them to the polls, conservatism would be rendered a relic of history overnight.  Why do you think Roberts' court had to strike down the voting rights act?

I think it would be more accurate that the current GOP resents these people. By and large we're the ones footing the bill for these people's lives and we know they won't ever vote Republican,

That's about the most baseless, yet self-aggrandizing assertion I've ever seen or heard.  Conservatives show nothing but contempt and disdain for anyone who doesn't own a successful business.  Did you watch Mitt Romeny's Republican National Convention Small Business Convention in 2012?  See where Eric Cantor put out a message lauding small business owners on Labor Day?  You guys genuinely believe anyone who isn't ownership or management is worthy of scorn and derision.

but we can't do jack shit about fixing it because your crook politicians use the broken system to keep themselves in office.'

Cheap cop-out.

As to the rest of it, while most of it is just your usual blithering simplistic bullshit,

Thank you for reminding it's me who's nasty.  Cunt.

I need to point out that the Democrats have a bad history with the Indians. Andrew Jackson actually took such perverse pleasure in annihilating them that he acquired the nicknames "Indian Killer" and "Sharp Knife". You might want to take that one off the canned corny attack list, eventually it's going to offend someone.

And?  Andrew Jackson would be a teabagger today.

It's very simple. Decentralized local government is more efficient and far superior to centralized government.

Not even remotely true.

It's a better idea to have your local mayor, feet on ground,

Difficult to do from behind bars. AS two prior Waterbury mayors are currently.

...calling shots than it is for Obama to issue a decree. Obama doesn't know you, he can't help you with your specific problems better than the mayor can.

But I do think he cares more than the local power broker.

So keep the power and ability local and subject to local choice.

Where it's far easier for vested interests to manipulate affairs.

If it's something of a bigger scope than local can accomplish, then go to the state. If the state can't do it, then go to the federal government. We do not need a federal Department of Education, we need state departments.

This is why we fall further and further behind the developed world each year in education ranking.  No way Alabama places as much value on education as Massachusetts.  This is where you are just wrong.  Dividing our nation into 50 separate fiefdoms weakens our standards and imperils our future.  As a nation, we cannot thrive in the next century if our main goal is to decompartmentalize in to fifty feudal states.  Preposterous.

We do not need a federal welfare system, we need the welfare system within the control of the states and cities where managment sees and understands the problems at hand.

Right.  There will be no opportunity for abuse there. Patronage, anyone?

As far as the voters, um, no. It doesn't matter if the percentage is low,

Ok, now I know you are a fiction writer.

what matters is that it defines elections now. That's why you spend so much time, effort and money in low-income areas to get out the vote. You would not win elections if you didn't.

You are speaking so far out of your purview I cannot spend the next several hours and dozens of pages explaining how you know not a whit of which you speak.

And, well, having seen plenty of your propaganda and heard the phone calls, none of what you're telling those people is the truth. It's scaremongering and lies designed to steal elections.

You mean like how Obama's going to take all of your guns?  Six years almost, still waiting.

That's corruption, and now my side is resorting to it...

Karl Rove? Don Regan? Lee Atwater? Roger Ailes? J Kenneth Blackwell? Diebold machines? Hanging chads? Are you fucking serious or just painfully naive?!?

with Cochran because that's how you win in this once great country that our politicians have turned into a corrupt shithole. It may be a corrupt shithole for all, but at some point it will just be run like Mexico and that very 47% will be ones who suffer the most from your inept leftwing crap you've foisted on us all through corrupting the system in the first place.

Actually, if we ignored the 47% about half of them would find jobs and then we'd know which ones need the help. I half joke, but the truth is I don't think you can ignore them, that's why I say we go back to more hands on methods. But you also can't use them, and you guys are using them just to gain power. I think I'd rather be ignored than used.

And now I see whereabouts Mother Vodka took over...

As ever, what starts as lucid, almost responsible dialogue devolves into preposterous presumption with intermittent invective, concluding with alcohol infused rambling. 

Looking forward to Sharknado 3.

[SciFiAuthor]

This isn't accurate. It is difficult to remain objective when personal experience suggests a different point of view. In reality:  Close to three quarters of applicants are turned down initially and even after appeal, 60 percent of applicants are denied benefits.

Disability is easy to beat up on, no one that drags their ass to work every day wants to hear someone gets money for less suffering than self perception allows.

Yeah, but you're still talking about a whole lot of people. I've read that 1 in 5 Americans experience some form of diagnosable mental illness in any given year. I'm sure you catch the bad actors, but from personal experience there are many slipping through that do not need to be on disability. I've just seen too much of this stuff Onan, here in the poor, rural methlab-fruited plain in which I live. If you can't get the diagnosis, you try to sue, and if you can't do that, you try to get hurt and get a settlement from some company. There are law firms dedicated to this, just watch the commercials on daytime broadcast TV. It's a racket and it's just going to end up collapsing your system anyway, so you might as well fix it while you can instead of convincing yourself that it's not a really problem and hoping that it will go away on its own.

[PB the Deplorable]

... The EBT card (which is abused) was designed to allow recipients to use the existing logistics of grocery stores to get a more rounded meal.I'll go you one better.  I was a Store Manager for a Rite Aid store in Bridgeport, CT a while back.  One day, this 6 ft 4 guy comes bounding into my store at around 1pm.  He asks for a pack of Newports and hands me a CT EBT card.  Back then, the state didn't limit purchases on the grounds that one purchase was as good as another, so long as the money circulated back into the economy.  Not knowing this, I assumed cigarettes weren't allowed on EBT and refused the sale.  Guy stormed out in a rage, called the company 1-800 line to complain, and the next day my DM was in my office writing me up for failure to properly serve a customer.  I told him I didn't realize we could sell tobacco products on state assistance cards.  He told me it wasn't my job to worry about it, so long as the tender was accepted by the POS system.

That, by the way, one of many reasons why I hate corporate America.  Just grub the money.  Bitch about people on payouts but grub those dollars; talk out of both sides of the mouth. 

At least the state has since, in fact, rescinded tobacco products from EBT...

So a government program is set up to feed the poor.  The legislators do not take care to ensure it can't be used to buy cigarettes - in fact they purposefully DO allow that.  These people are their constituents after all (I can almost hear Nancy Pelosi making a speech on the evils of tobacco one day, and insisting the lazy be allowed to purchase tobacco with EBT cards 'like everyone else' the next).

Young healthy people then take advantage... and you blame corporate America.


Did it ever occur to you that denying someone an allowed EBT purchase is against the law, and that your DM simply didn't bother to make that part of the discussion with his rookie manager?

... Conservatives show nothing but contempt and disdain for anyone who doesn't own a successful business.  Did you watch Mitt Romeny's Republican National Convention Small Business Convention in 2012?  See where Eric Cantor put out a message lauding small business owners on Labor Day?...

What is wrong with lauding small business owners? 

Remember Obama's 'you didn't build that' comment?  All the Libs came out in force to insist he didn't say what he said.  It was 'taken out of context' and all that.  Obama actually loves small business owners.  Yet whenever the subject comes up, all we hear from the Left is distain towards business in this country.  I guess those were all lies to cover for Dear Leader's gaffe?


The thing you are missing is nearly all goods and services in this country are created by business.  By the people who get up every day and go to work.  The few goods and services created by govt are done with tax dollars gleaned from the people who created the rest of the goods and services

Government is now mostly in the business of redistributing wealth from the people that earned it to the people who didn't.  The Left and the Democrats have demonized the wealth creators and hold the lazy and willfully useless among us up as the noble people. 

They aren't.  They are simply lazy and useless - except their votes are valuable.  Just enough to swing elections that would otherwise be close. 


Of the people on the dole, only a fraction are 'mentally ill' or truly disabled.  The rest need to be cut off and support themselves.

[SciFiAuthor]

Fine.  Let's encourage lawmakers to redouble efforts at authorizing inspectors general to rigorously approve and periodically review
folks on public assistance.  Violators should be prosecuted.

We've been trying to do that for years in the GOP. Your politicians just say "the republicans want to take your welfare away  . . . right this way to the voting booth."

They do photo-ops in poor areas to guilt white people in the suburbs.  You cannot be so ignorant as to believe there is high turnout in poor areas.  Do just a smidge of research.Bah, yourself.  Again, just a smidge of research.  I realize as a fiction author the concept is alien to you, but if you do some research you will realize that food handouts were very limited (sometimes to just cheese) because there was no way to deliver fresh food to so many people in need.  Rot, theft, vermin, insects.  Too much food is wasted in this process.  City Harvest, in NYC, has a decent capability but they are retrieving food and redistributing it within a 20 block radius, usually.  Not practical in Clay County, KY.

After Ohio in 2012, it was quite clear that you can turn out the poor votes and win on it. In other words, you don't want it to be practical. Alright, it's the computer age, let's restrict what foods may be bought with an EBT card. No snacks or junk food, just basic essentials with controls on what percentage of expenditure should be on fresh vegetables. Put Michelle in charge. Hell, let's gear it low-cal and combat obesity.

The EBT card (which is abused) was designed to allow recipients to use the existing logistics of grocery stores to get a more rounded meal.I'll go you one better.  I was a Store Manager for a Rite Aid store in Bridgeport, CT a while back.  One day, this 6 ft 4 guy comes bounding into my store at around 1pm.  He asks for a pack of Newports and hands me a CT EBT card.  Back then, the state didn't limit purchases on the grounds that one purchase was as good as another, so long as the money circulated back into the economy.  Not knowing this, I assumed cigarettes weren't allowed on EBT and refused the sale.  Guy stormed out in a rage, called the company 1-800 line to complain, and the next day my DM was in my office writing me up for failure to properly serve a customer.  I told him I didn't realize we could sell tobacco products on state assistance cards.  He told me it wasn't my job to worry about it, so long as the tender was accepted by the POS system.

Heartless. The poor guy was jonesing for a smoke and you beat him down like a rented mule. Good for him for stickin' it to the man.

That, by the way, one of many reasons why I hate corporate America.  Just grub the money.  Bitch about people on payouts but grub those dollars; talk out of both sides of the mouth. 

It's more that you should hate money grubbing, because it goes on from the bottom to the top in this country. Whether you're a corporation lobbying for a kickback or a grifter suing a corporation because the three weeks you worked for them might have contributed to the transient largely asymptomatic carpal tunnel syndrome you got the fourth doctor to diagnose after two years of trying.

Talk about lazy, this repeated assertion about getting "my politicians" elected by public assistance "bribery" is cheap and lazy.  You really need to check turnouts in predominately poorer areas.  Even in Presidentials they are hideously low.

Actions speak louder than words, you put huge amounts of resources into those areas and they are having a significant effect as 2012 Ohio shows. You can say "Oh, there's no voters there!" but when your politicians are hyper focused on that specific vote, well, bullshit me if you like, but they think there's a fire under that smoke.

I'm not kidding.  If some socialist zealot could stir these people to some passion, get them to register, and get them to the polls, conservatism would be rendered a relic of history overnight.  Why do you think Roberts' court had to strike down the voting rights act?

It would be a relic of history overnight. It probably already is, actually, at least for the presidential elections. I think you've most likely rigged it to be Democratic from here on out until you bankrupt the country Greece-style and China has to bail us out because you bribed too much.

That's about the most baseless, yet self-aggrandizing assertion I've ever seen or heard.  Conservatives show nothing but contempt and disdain for anyone who doesn't own a successful business.  Did you watch Mitt Romeny's Republican National Convention Small Business Convention in 2012?  See where Eric Cantor put out a message lauding small business owners on Labor Day?  You guys genuinely believe anyone who isn't ownership or management is worthy of scorn and derision.

Yeah, that's called demonization and it's a result of exposure to propaganda and a resultant moral panic. Um, you do realize what we did to Eric Cantor, right?

.
Thank you for reminding it's me who's nasty.  Cunt.

You need a reminder every so often to keep you on your toes.

And?  Andrew Jackson would be a teabagger today.

Actually he'd be with occupy. Other than killing Indians, his other big thing was breaking the power of banks.

Not even remotely true. Difficult to do from behind bars. AS two prior Waterbury mayors are currently.But I do think he cares more than the local power broker.  Where it's far easier for vested interests to manipulate affairs.

Well yeah, I never said the Democrat mayors wouldn't be corrupt, that goes without saying. The difference, you see, is that mayors don't have the protections of presidents. Presidents don't go to jail. Mayors are more accountable. That said, a cynical argument of that nature can be applied to the federal government just as easily as it can locally.

This is why we fall further and further behind the developed world each year in education ranking.  No way Alabama places as much value on education as Massachusetts.  This is where you are just wrong.  Dividing our nation into 50 separate fiefdoms weakens our standards and imperils our future.  As a nation, we cannot thrive in the next century if our main goal is to decompartmentalize in to fifty feudal states.  Preposterous. Right.  There will be no opportunity for abuse there. Patronage, anyone?

You have a federal department of education that's failing to do its job then. Again, you already have a lowering of standards and an imperiled future now. The very things you project are happening right now because of the system you have. Because of liberal cynicism, you're basically saying that even though your system is failing, it should be kept because the other idea will fail in the same way just because you think it will. Jesus man, you're cranky this week, get me a bottle of Gordon's when you're at work next, the big bottle, I'm gonna need it to make it through this discussion.

You mean like how Obama's going to take all of your guns?  Six years almost, still waiting.

He just took the ammo.

Karl Rove? Don Regan? Lee Atwater? Roger Ailes? J Kenneth Blackwell? Diebold machines? Hanging chads? Are you fucking serious or just painfully naive?!?And now I see whereabouts Mother Vodka took over...

Notice that I was very careful to add in my own disdain for the Republican establishment throughout this conversation.

As ever, what starts as lucid, almost responsible dialogue devolves into preposterous presumption with intermittent invective, concluding with alcohol infused rambling. 

It usually starts going off the rails when you can't think of anything to say, so you just head into the weeds and rant about racist republicans. I'm no angel, so I toss it out too. I think it's sort of fun, actually. 

Looking forward to Sharknado 3.

I revamped the project into a political thriller. Snarknado. It's about a homosexual, transgendered log cabin republican engaged in a BDSM love affair with a vampire that votes democrat. Their forbidden love is frowned upon by agents of both parties who hound and harass the love birds throughout the narrative. It ends on a deus ex machina where a libertarian unicorn shows up, kicks everyone's ass including the protagonists, and a thousand years of prosperity ensues until the world inexplicably explodes because I wanted an explosion in the book. Explosions are kick ass.