ISIS

[Uncle Duke]

UK Parliament has OK'd Brit strikes in Iraq.  Yesterday the Dutch and Netherlands said they'd join in.  The Coalition now has as many Western countries as Arab...perhaps too many jumping on the bandwagon will be counterproductive in the Sunni Arab perceptions of persecution.

Question isn't the number of those jumping on the bandwagon, it's which wagon they're jumping on.  The Brits and French have said they won't bomb Syria, I'm guessing the Dutch and Belgians will strike only in Iraq as well.  That leaves the US and Arab/Muslim nations hitting Syria.  So who/what are the Sunni going to be angry at/about if this division of military action continues?

If these attacks are going anything like Desert Storm (and subsequent ME actions), the Arab nations' involvement is more for show than substance.  The US, and West in general, can beat its chest and talk about a coalition that includes "our Muslim/Arab allies", but in most cases they are more trouble than they are worth.  I'm convinced the inclusion of the limited number of a/c the Arab nations contributed to strikes resulted in the nearly two week delay in the first raids into Syria.  Working out C3I, logistics, mission planning and other critical elements with a military force with which you have little-to-no experience takes time.  We probably had to also provide them war material to make their pinprick srtikes.  A USAF/USN only force could have struck IS seamlessly in Syria within minutes of Obama's address to the American people, had the Brits been on board nearly the same degree of seamlessness would have existed from day one.  That would have allowed IS and its affiliated groups no time to disperse their forces and place/park their gear around schools, hospitals, and mosques.

If you want these guys to play without impacting mission capability, assign them something like tanker/AWACS/Joint Stars CAP where they will be well out of the way and still providing a necessary, yet in all probability never needed, function.  IS has no air force, but there is always a chance, an extremely small chance if they want to continue to exist,  the Syrians or Iranians might be stupid enough to try to stop the attacks.

[paladin1991]

You should be.  The whole point is to get Arab Muslims to see to and accept religious extremism as a greater threat than constant Western interference and domination in their affairs. Until then, it will be perpetual low grade war for America.  We've already been at it for 20+ years with no resolution in sight.

I'm sorry geezer.  I am just too friggin' tired to care anymore.  If the whole arab world wants to rise up and join the dance, I might have one last dance inside of me.  But I want to dance NOW.  Not in 2 years when my son is old enough to be drafted. 

I want it over and done.  Over and done.

I don't care if they accept that religious extremism is a 'greater threat' than we are.  It isn't.  WE are a greater threat.  And it's well past time for us to embrace what we are.  The lone superpower.  The chinese, Russians, French, Brits don't project force.  WE project force.  The others have nukes?  We are the only nation that has the proven resolve to pop a nuke. 
We have been forced to do these things.  History has shown that.    Argue however you want against this, I'm not sure that you can sway me.

[DigitalPigSnuggler]

[Quick Karl]

...The whole point is to get Arab Muslims to see to and accept religious extremism as a greater threat than constant Western interference and domination in their affairs...

It is beyond mind boggling that there are people that actually believe this has a chance in hell of ever happening without massive, overwhelming, unconditional, military force.

You have a better chance of running through hell in a gasoline trench coat and living to tell about it.

[Uncle Duke]

Two elite mercenary forces already exists, the Gurkas and the French Foreign Legion.  Turn them loose with air support and IS is history in short order.

[Quick Karl]

http://news.yahoo.com/3-times-obama-administration-warned-isis-threat-192100956.html

Either utterly stupid and incompetent or, a traitor.

[DigitalPigSnuggler]

Two elite mercenary forces already exists, the Gurkas and the French Foreign Legion.  Turn them loose with air support and IS is history in short order.

Apparently the lunacy of O'Reilly's approach -- which is essentially the same as every other con-tard -- has whistled through your ears.

Let me try this: have you ever heard of the phrase, "New wine in an old bottle"?  Have any idea what that metaphor refers to, or how it relates to the situation at hand?

Sorry for making you try to think here.

[VtaGeezer]

...massive, overwhelming, unconditional, military force.

Been there, done that.  Where do you think ISIL was incubated?

[VtaGeezer]

Apparently the lunacy of O'Reilly's approach -- which is essentially the same as every other con-tard -- has whistled through your ears.

Let me try this: have you ever heard of the phrase, "New wine in an old bottle"?  Have any idea what that means, or how it relates to the situation at hand?

Sorry for making you try to think here.

I think Obama should ask Bill-O to go Iraq to command the coalition as Field Marshal.  It would mean certain death for ISIL.  They'd die laughing.

[b_dubb]

uhhhmerica


FUCK YEAH

[Uncle Duke]

Apparently the lunacy of O'Reilly's approach -- which is essentially the same as every other con-tard -- has whistled through your ears.

Let me try this: have you ever heard of the phrase, "New wine in an old bottle"?  Have any idea what that metaphor refers to, or how it relates to the situation at hand?

Sorry for making you try to think here.

Actually, no.  My post was to highlight "the lunacy of O'Reilly's approach".  You don't slap together an "elite force" of "SOF" subscribers in hopes of becoming mercs.  What's required is an established, professional military force capable of taking the fight to an enemy that has relied on terror as a force multiplier.  I was both poking fun at O'Reilly and at the same time pointing out two of the most feared military forces in the world just happened to be, by definition, mercenaries.  And the nations who control them are part of the coalition built by the current Adminstration.

Feel free to send me a personal message if you'd like more information on the Gurkas and/or FFL.

[paladin1991]

Gurkhas, Unca Duke?  Holy Dogshit!  Tell them they can carve out a new country of their own and turn them loose. 

[Uncle Duke]

Gurkhas, Unca Duke?  Holy Dogshit!  Tell them they can carve out a new country of their own and turn them loose.

Good man.  I'm impressed, a ""Bellgab" poster who knows who they are.  You must also remember what happened in 1982 when the Argies found out they were coming to the Falklands. 

[paladin1991]

You mean the 'war' ended somewhat abruptly?

[Yorkshire pud]

You mean the 'war' ended somewhat abruptly?

The Falklands conflict ended quite quickly for a number of reasons. Not least because there were highly trained professional soldiers up against conscripts who really wanted to be anywhere else but a very cold wet outcrop of rock in the freezing South Atlantic. Sure, the marines and paras had to be put on separate ships mid way down because they were fighting each other, but when they got there they were on the same side. Oh and we had air superiority too. And Argentina were terrified of having their carrier sunk so that made a brief cruise before returning home, severely restricting their air capability.

[Uncle Duke]

You mean the 'war' ended somewhat abruptly?

Something like that!

[Uncle Duke]

The Falklands conflict ended quite quickly for a number of reasons. Not least because there were highly trained professional soldiers up against conscripts who really wanted to be anywhere else but a very cold wet outcrop of rock in the freezing South Atlantic. Sure, the marines and paras had to be put on separate ships mid way down because they were fighting each other, but when they got there they were on the same side. Oh and we had air superiority too. And Argentina were terrified of having their carrier sunk so that made a brief cruise before returning home, severely restricting their air capability.

As usual Pud, you know your stuff.  But if you've never read Martin Middlebrook's "ARGENTINE FIGHT FOR THE FALKLANDS", I highly recommend it.  The Gurkas being en route certainly had its affect on the conscripts you mentioned.

By the way, the UK never had air superiority.  What they did have was Sharkey Ward and the Chileans.

[Yorkshire pud]

As usual Pud, you know your stuff.  But if you've never read noted Martin Middlebrook's "ARGENTINE FIGHT FOR THE FALKLANDS", I highly recommend it.  The Gurkas being en route certainly had its affect on the conscripts you mentioned.

By the way, the UK never had air superiority.  What they did have was the Chileans.

Oh I dunno. The Sea Harriers were responsible for a few kills as I recall. In the list of "Oh why the fuck did the brass do that?" Includes scrapping Ark Royal. However it's unlikely Argentina would have invaded if she'd still been operational. America played their part too. Not least of all from (name escapes me- George?) who batted for us in the UN and made things inconvenient for Argentina. And a surprising input from the Soviet Union who were obviously there to nosey.

Ooops well off topic now!

[paladin1991]

Hey waitaminute, Pud.  YOu sure seem to know a lot. 

[Uncle Duke]

Hey waitaminute, Pud.  YOu sure seem to know a lot.

Agreed.  Pud know his stuff.

[VtaGeezer]

... pointing out two of the most feared military forces in the world just happened to be, by definition, mercenaries.  And the nations who control them are part of the coalition built by the current Adminstration.

Technically "mercenaries" but not for hire.  Generalissimo Bill-O's SOF wet dream. Millions of idiots probably emailed it to their congressmen.  I'm only surprised he didn't mention Mohammedan Kryptonite; i.e. pig blood, in his plan. Instantly renders Muslims incontinent, incoherent, and jiggy.  Gotta hand it to Bill-O; his ego makes the fat radio guy look like a wallflower.

[Yorkshire pud]

Technically "mercenaries" but not for hire.  Generalissimo Bill-O's SOF wet dream. Millions of idiots probably emailed it to their congressmen.  I'm only surprised he didn't mention Mohammedan Kryptonite; i.e. pig blood, in his plan. Instantly renders Muslims incontinent, incoherent, and jiggy.  Gotta hand it to Bill-O; his ego makes the fat radio guy look like a wallflower.

You should see it as a datum. While you have Bill O, no matter how bad your own life gets, no matter how you might feel you're going mad, you'll be able to look to him and know you're really not as bad as you can be.

[Uncle Duke]

Technically "mercenaries" but not for hire.  Generalissimo Bill-O's SOF wet dream. Millions of idiots probably emailed it to their congressmen.  I'm only surprised he didn't mention Mohammedan Kryptonite; i.e. pig blood, in his plan. Instantly renders Muslims incontinent, incoherent, and jiggy.  Gotta hand it to Bill-O; his ego makes the fat radio guy look like a wallflower.

Again, I suggest you read for content.  I neither supported nor validated O'Reilly's plan.  Just the opposite in fact.  And yes, the Gurkas and FFL are mercs.  More established and accepted than the likes of "Mad Mike's" men from the 60s and 70s, but mercs none the less. 

[Yorkshire pud]

Agreed.  Pud know his stuff.

You're very kind, but I just read obscure bits of stuff and the occasional book on such things. If anyone is interested in the Ghurkas, the BBC  had an interesting series a few years ago on their recruitment and training. No idea if you can get it in the US. Their training CO says at one point they usually only need to be shown how to do things once, and they learn it. The vast majority who walk vast distances to the initial training camp in Napal of course don't get selected to go any further. It isn't uncommon for those who are rejected to commit suicide due to the shame.

[Uncle Duke]

You're very kind, but I just read obscure bits of stuff and the occasional book on such things. If anyone is interested in the Ghurkas, the BBC  had an interesting series a few years ago on their recruitment and training. No idea if you can get it in the US. Their training CO says at one point they usually only need to be shown how to do things once, and they learn it. The vast majority who walk vast distances to the initial training camp in Napal of course don't get selected to go any further. It isn't uncommon for those who are rejected to commit suicide due to the shame.

I saw that BBC series while on TDY to the UK a few years ago.  Truly an eye-opener for a guy who grew up in the Vietnam-era in the US.  Few know there are several Gurka regiments in the Indian Army as well as in the UK, I remember reading most of them are on the border with China.

[VtaGeezer]

Again, I suggest you read for content.  I neither supported nor validated O'Reilly's plan.  Just the opposite in fact.  And yes, the Gurkas and FFL are mercs.  More established and accepted than the likes of "Mad Mike's" men from the 60s and 70s, but mercs none the less.

I wasn't implying that you supported BO; just ridiculing his hubris.  Since neither the Royal Gurkhas or FFL are for hire, I don't think they're available to Generalissimo Bill as the kind of mercenary he's thinking of:

[FightTheFuture]

This is not a job for mercenaries, this is a job for the greatest military on the planet. Make no mistake about that. Mercs can be handy in certain situations, but clearly, this is not one of those situations.

[Uncle Duke]

I wasn't implying that you supported BO; just ridiculing his hubris.  Since neither the Royal Gurkhas or FFL are for hire, I don't think they're available to Generalissimo Bill as the kind of mercenary he's thinking of:

*laughs*  OK, let me know when you have affixed the goal posts to at least a semi-permanent position.

[MV/Liberace!]

I heard americans are really concerned that IS people are going to come across the border from mexico? the fucking cartels would murder any IS dudes on sight just because it was bad for business.  they have enough trouble getting mexicans across the border, sending a terrorist across the border would shut the cartel's shit right down and then they wouldn't be making any money

people would rather be bat shit frightened than believe that, but you are entirely correct.

[MV/Liberace!]

Unless ISIS pays more.

come on, man. you are smarter than to even entertain that possibility.