ISIS

[Quick Karl]

i am a firm follower of you can get more with a kind word and a 2x4 than you can with just a kind word. when required.

I wasn't suggesting there was any disagreement between us, only expressing my point of view!

[Mind Flayer Monk]

Have fun with that one China.

[Quick Karl]

Please forgive me, I did not get Yorkshire Mentalcase's permission to post this news article...

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-06-12/iraq-seeks-to-check-advance-of-islamists-near-saddam-s-hometown.html

[albrecht]

Please forgive me, I did not get Yorkshire Mentalcase's permission to post this news article...

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-06-12/iraq-seeks-to-check-advance-of-islamists-near-saddam-s-hometown.html

Even though a certain person in the White House will be happy as his Sunni compatriots seem to be gaining the upper-hand- long as they don't come across our open-borders and are not allowed to immigrate to Europe or the USA for any reason (including 'humanitarian' reasons): I'm beginning to say "screw them all" and pull all troops out. Blockade the whole region with naval vessels and drones and let the Islamists sort it out until nobody is left standing. Then move in and pump the oil or buy it cheaply from whatever tin-pot dictator finally won. Maybe pick a place as a safe zone for the few remaining Christians and others otherwise let the Islamists kill each other off.

[Quick Karl]

Even though a certain person in the White House will be happy as his Sunni compatriots seem to be gaining the upper-hand- long as they don't come across our open-borders and are not allowed to immigrate to Europe or the USA for any reason (including 'humanitarian' reasons): I'm beginning to say "screw them all" and pull all troops out. Blockade the whole region with naval vessels and drones and let the Islamists sort it out until nobody is left standing. Then move in and pump the oil or buy it cheaply from whatever tin-pot dictator finally won. Maybe pick a place as a safe zone for the few remaining Christians and others otherwise let the Islamists kill each other off.

We should have done that 50-years ago.

[albrecht]

And, oh yeah, they are already in our country.

Hopefully under surveillance (like the rest of the population or is that spying only on American citizens?) And they should be deported and we should issue no student-visa or other visas to anyone from those countries-- but I know that is a pipe-dream.

[Juan]

Saddam was a trouble-maker.  I still think he could have had something to do with the Oklahoma City bombing. I'm not upset that he's gone, but the nation building, once again, got us in trouble. Pull out and let them kill each other, peacefully of course, as Islam is the religion of peace.

[ItsOver]

Have the helicopters started flying off the top of buildings in Baghdad, yet?

[PB the Deplorable]

... a certain person in the White House will be happy as his Sunni compatriots seem to be gaining the upper-hand...

The US should have been doing air strikes on the al-Qaeda army as they marched on Mosul and Tikrit.  Blown them the fuck up the way Bush I killed the Iraq army as they were retreating back to Baghdad from Kuwait.  No one else is on those highways right now.

There is probably still time as they move on Baghdad.


Remember back when the Libs were insisting this creature named Barrack Hussein Obama wasn't a Muslim, didn't sympathize with the radicals, and didn't have a blind spot when it came to Islamic Jihad?  And even if he did, so what, it was cool to vote for him?

Fast forward 6 years to this week.  While he's trying to answer the question of what foreign policy accomplishments he has (and coming up empty), he's releasing 'never-to-be-released' mass murdering terrorists, and ignoring the government of Iraq's plea for air strikes.

Yes, it was very wise indeed to elect this turd.  Twice.

[PB the Deplorable]

No doubt having CAIR come to the White House weekly if not more often, holding just as many meetings with the Moslem Brotherhood, placing Brotherhood agents in the State Department, etc, have no bearing on these policies in support of the Islamists.

I'm sure Hilary and her personal Brotherhood agent, er, aid, Huma Abedin, will reverse course once they are in the White House.

[albrecht]

No doubt having CAIR come to the White House weekly if not more often, holding just as many meetings with the Moslem Brotherhood, placing Brotherhood agents in the State Department, etc, have no bearing on these policies in support of the Islamists.

I'm sure Hilary and her personal Brotherhood agent, er, aid, Huma Abedin, will reverse course once they are in the White House.

This character Obama always bragged that he was going to "transform America." Supporting terrorists, letting terrorist leaders and masterminds go, making "Dreamers" and encouraging people to drop their kids off here, and keeping the border wide-open for any diseased, poor, criminal, or uneducated peasant who wishes to come here and milk the system. He certainly is "transforming America" just as he claimed.

[paladin1991]

Please forgive me, I did not get Yorkshire Mentalcase's permission to post this news article...

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-06-12/iraq-seeks-to-check-advance-of-islamists-near-saddam-s-hometown.html
[/quote*waves hand in acceptance of Karl's mea culpa*  It needs to be said, my son.

[paladin1991]

Even though a certain person in the White House will be happy as his Sunni compatriots seem to be gaining the upper-hand- long as they don't come across our open-borders and are not allowed to immigrate to Europe or the USA for any reason (including 'humanitarian' reasons): I'm beginning to say "screw them all" and pull all troops out. Blockade the whole region with naval vessels and drones and let the Islamists sort it out until nobody is left standing. Then move in and pump the oil or buy it cheaply from whatever tin-pot dictator finally won. Maybe pick a place as a safe zone for the few remaining Christians and others otherwise let the Islamists kill each other off.

Hmmmm.  That.  Just.  Might.  Work.

[paladin1991]

Yes, it was very wise indeed to elect this turd.  Twice.

If you heard that lone voice at the polling station calling out to the sheeple, 'Yoooou'll be soooory!'.  That was me.

[PB the Deplorable]

Get ready for a jump in gasoline prices - fill your vehicles up today

[Designx]

Get ready for a jump in gasoline prices - fill your vehicles up today

I think the sky is the limit on gas prices with this crisis. Major economic damage can happen but I suppose the government would never drop thier 18.5 cents of tax on a gallon of gas no matter how high prices go.

[PB the Deplorable]

Biden - the Administrations supposed foreign policy expert -  was sent to Iraq to get a status-of-forces agreement with the government there, keeping a certain number of troops there the way we did in Japan and Europe after WWII and in Korea after that war.  It's in our benefit to continue to provide stability there, as the current situation demonstrates - in the worst possible way.

Either through incompetence or - more likely - a behind the scenes unwillingness on the part of Obama, that agreement was never reached.  Now look at what is happening.

What a disaster.  The most recent one on a long list for them.

[PB the Deplorable]

So what's next?

These are some of the same Islamists fighting against Assad's government in Syria.  It's the group senile ol' John McCain visits and has good words for, and the people Obama wanted to assist in their fight against the Syrian government with air strikes awhile back.  They call themselves ISIS - The Islamic State in Iraq and Syria.  They are Sunni Muslims and follow the most strict oppressive version of Sharia Law.

Their leader is a mass murderer along the lines of the 5 Taliban Obama let go free last week - we had this guy in a cage as well once, and Obama let him go in 2009.  Look at the weapons and vehicles they have in the photos.  Guess who they got them from.


Iraq is really comprised of 3 distinct regions.  The Kurds in the north across from Turkey, the Shiites in the south aligned with Shia Iran, and the Sunnis in central and western Iraq.

ISIS is likely not going to try to take Baghdad (just attack it to weaken the government further, and destroy the ability of the military to fight) or the other Shia areas - they do not want to draw Iran in and have to fight them yet.  Looking at the map, I'd say their ultimate goal is a one-nation caliphate consisting of Syria, the Sunni parts of Iraq and Kuwait, Jordan, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, the smaller Gulf states of Qatar, Bahrain, and the Emirates (including Dubai), the West Bank, and Gaza.  And then Israel.

In that scenario, Iran would absorb the Shia portions of Iraq and Kuwait.

Who knows how this all plays out, but the above is not out of the question.  It will happen unless there is resistance.  At some point it's not out of the question for Turkey, Russia, and Israel to get involved, siding with the Sunni nations against the ISIS marauders.  The military government of Sunni dominated Egypt is also bitter enemies of fellow Sunni's al-Qaeda, and they are currently fighting fellow Sunnis the Moslem Brotherhood - who they recently deposed.  They could easily be drawn into this as well.


All because Bush II invaded Iraq, disbanded the government, and had Saddam executed - followed up by Obama's blundering and failure to secure the situation on the way out.  He won't even launch air strikes to kill this army as it travels down the highway to Baghdad.  We ought to be doing that as well as pounding their bases and supply routes.  Maybe while Obama dithers, the Russians, Israelis, or someone else will.  Every day it's more and more clear he is a Sunni Muslim.  And the wrong guy for the job.

[Yorkshire pud]

You're wasted on this forum PB. You ought to be appointed foriegn secretary. You make a complecated crises so simple. Sure you throw in speculation and conjecture but you got it nailed.

[VtaGeezer]

What a bunch of revisionist bullshit I'm reading.  This end was predicted by anyone with a functioning brain cell while Saddam still had his head. Cheney's boy al-Maliki immediately buddied up to his Shiite Hezbollah Iranian soul bros while completely stiff-arming the Iraqi Sunni majority, he caved to sect leader Muhktada al Sadr, rejected the US status of forces agreement to shield US troops from Iraqi prosecution.  The Great Gen. David Petraeus didn't defeat any insurgency with his famed "surge"; he just bought them off with mountains of US cash, with McCrystal as his bag man.  In Mosul yesterday, 30,000 US-trained and equipped Iraqi (mostly Sunni) troops ran away from...or joined...between 1,000 and 5,000 (depending who you believe) ISIS Sunni jihadis.  The Ayatollahs in Tehran are sending two battalions of Revolutionary Guard to help their Shiite brothers in Iraq, and now McCain and his clown car entourage are demanding that Obama provide air cover for them.

Fuck 'em all.  Not one more drop of American or NATO blood should be spilled or one dollar spent for that medieval hellhole or the tribal cretins who inhabit it.  And fuck that senile hack McCain and all the neocon shits whose treachery, bravado and lies got us into this tragic trillion dollar fiasco, killed 5,000 Americans, probably 150,000 Iraqis, and assured Arab hatred of the USA for next millennia.  The only US military action should be one flight to drop Cap'n Crunch McCain and the whole treasonous Bush/Cheney crowd into Fallujah from 10,000 ft. wearing Uncle Sam suits.  Or maybe we keep arming all sides in every Arab contest until there's a clear winner...then nuke that son of a bitch.

[Quick Karl]

What a bunch of revisionist bullshit I'm reading.  This end was predicted by anyone with a functioning brain cell while Saddam still had his head. Cheney's boy al-Maliki immediately buddied up to his Shiite Hezbollah Iranian soul bros while completely stiff-arming the Iraqi Sunni majority, he caved to sect leader Muhktada al Sadr, rejected the US status of forces agreement to shield US troops from Iraqi prosecution.  The Great Gen. David Petraeus didn't defeat any insurgency with his famed "surge"; he just bought them off with mountains of US cash, with McCrystal as his bag man.  In Mosul yesterday, 30,000 US-trained and equipped Iraqi (mostly Sunni) troops ran away from...or joined...between 1,000 and 5,000 (depending who you believe) ISIS Sunni jihadis.  The Ayatollahs in Tehran are sending two battalions of Revolutionary Guard to help their Shiite brothers in Iraq, and now McCain and his clown car entourage are demanding that Obama provide air cover for them.

Fuck 'em all.  Not one more drop of American or NATO blood should be spilled or one dollar spent for that medieval hellhole or the tribal cretins who inhabit it.  And fuck that senile hack McCain and all the neocon shits whose treachery, bravado and lies got us into this tragic trillion dollar fiasco, killed 5,000 Americans, probably 150,000 Iraqis, and assured Arab hatred of the USA for next millennia.  The only US military action should be one flight to drop Cap'n Crunch McCain and the whole treasonous Bush/Cheney crowd into Fallujah from 10,000 ft. wearing Uncle Sam suits.  Or maybe we keep arming all sides in every Arab contest until there's a clear winner...then nuke that son of a bitch.

It would be a miracle in this country, if just a handful of people, would stop to realize that, no one side in Washington can do what they do, without the equally treasonous collusion of the "other party":

“I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use forceâ€" if necessaryâ€" to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security.” Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002

“There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years … We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction.” Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002

“Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation … And now he is miscalculating America’s response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction… So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real …” Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan.23.2003

Making you blame one side or the other, is the magic trick they pull, that keeps them doing what they're doing.

[PB the Deplorable]

We have interests in the region, not the least of which are our allies. 

We don't need al-Qaeda-like terrorists controlling nation states where they can plan future 9/11s.  We don't need any more Irans - look how much damage they've done in the world since Carter blundered away that country.

In Iraq, we've made promises and enticed people to throw in with us - people who are now being murdered for doing so.  We've done this so many times now, it gets harder and harder to get people respond when we ask for help.  The Libs love to talk about human rights, democracy, justice, and all that, but when it benefits people friendly to us - not so much.  The Libs like the idea of using our military, but only in places we don't have strategic interests.

Cutting and running is not the right way to depart, regardless of how we got there. 


Obama has done everything he can think of to alienate our allies and project weakness to our enemies all over the world since the day he took office.  This is just more of the same.  It's nice to have allies.  It's a good thing when our enemies think twice before acting on their ambitions.  When we do things like ensure international airspace and shipping routes are safe and open, it's for our own benefit.

[Yorkshire pud]

It would be a miracle in this country, if just a handful of people, would stop to realize that, no one side in Washington can do what they do, without the equally treasonous collusion of the "other party":

“I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use forceâ€" if necessaryâ€" to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security.” Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002

“There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years … We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction.” Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002

“Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation … And now he is miscalculating America’s response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction… So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real …” Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan.23.2003

Making you blame one side or the other, is the magic trick they pull, that keeps them doing what they're doing.

Hmmm. And who provided the 'facts' that those statements of support were based on? You know..the bits about imminent attacks with WMD. The alleged collusion of Bin Laden and SH ( they loathed each other)..The alleged 'Yellow Cake'...The falsified satalite photos of mobile missile units and mobile chemical weapon producing plants?

[Quick Karl]

Hmmm. And who provided the 'facts' that those statements of support were based on? You know..the bits about imminent attacks with WMD. The alleged collusion of Bin Laden and SH ( they loathed each other)..The alleged 'Yellow Cake'...The falsified satalite photos of mobile missile units and mobile chemical weapon producing plants?

You've been listening to too much Alex Jones...

To suggest that Bush commanded the entire CIA to deceive all those intellectual geniuses in the communoDemocrat party, and they were just overwhelmed by Bush's massive evil brainpower, or that Cheney is, in fact, Darth Vader, and NO ONE can resist his fantastic will, is like suggesting you're smart.

[VtaGeezer]

We have interests in the region, not the least of which are our allies. 

We don't need al-Qaeda-like terrorists controlling nation states where they can plan future 9/11s.  We don't need any more Irans - look how much damage they've done in the world since Carter blundered away that country.

In Iraq, we've made promises and enticed people to throw in with us - people who are now being murdered for doing so.  We've done this so many times now, it gets harder and harder to get people respond when we ask for help.  The Libs love to talk about human rights, democracy, justice, and all that, but when it benefits people friendly to us - not so much.  The Libs like the idea of using our military, but only in places we don't have strategic interests.

Cutting and running is not the right way to depart, regardless of how we got there. 


Obama has done everything he can think of to alienate our allies and project weakness to our enemies all over the world since the day he took office.  This is just more of the same.  It's nice to have allies.  It's a good thing when our enemies think twice before acting on their ambitions.  When we do things like ensure international airspace and shipping routes are safe and open, it's for our own benefit.

Bush, Cheney, Rummie, Tenet, and dozens of others on their staffs should be in prison for treason and war crimes. The CIA, backed by Cheney, fabricated a rich fantasy that was sold to a nation hysterical about 9/11; their other monstrous incompetence.  Accountability is a meaningless word to conservatives.   Obama's no FDR, but he inherited military and economic catastrophes built over eight long years of the worst malfeasance by Federal elected officials in the US history.  Like I said, imagine the state of affairs had McCain and the idiot Alaskan loudmouth that was his first crucial choice won.

[Quick Karl]

I'm not saying anything about reading my immediately preceding post...

[Yorkshire pud]

You've been listening to too much Alex Jones...

To suggest that Bush commanded the entire CIA to deceive all those intellectual geniuses in the communoDemocrat party, and they were just overwhelmed by Bush's massive evil brainpower, or that Cheney is, in fact, Darth Vader, and NO ONE can resist his fantastic will, is like suggesting you're smart.

On the contrary..Bush et al disregarded the facts that were presented to him and the administration. The WMD fallacy was based wholly on the word of an Iraqi who wanted asylum in the West. He was taken to Germany to be interviewed (For 18 months) and when they started doubting his 'knowledge' of WMD he started drawing sketches of maps etc where they were manufactured. Naturally the game was up when satellite imagery showed the maps he'd drawn were impossible. The Germans told the Brits and the US agencies...who went to their respective admins to say that this supposed information was fabricated...There was a programme on the BBC explaining it, it's still available, (See link) and very telling on how Bush and Blair spun a lie into fact.

Watch this and then say that Bush and Blair were genuine! First two minutes should do it.. Up to you if you watch it of course.


The Spies Who Fooled The World Iraq War Documentary BBC)

[PB the Deplorable]

Bush, Cheney, Rummie, Tenet, and dozens of others on their staffs should be in prison for treason and war crimes. The CIA, backed by Cheney, fabricated a rich fantasy that was sold to a nation hysterical about 9/11; their other monstrous incompetence.  Accountability is a meaningless word to conservatives.   Obama's no FDR, but he inherited military and economic catastrophes built over eight long years of the worst malfeasance by Federal elected officials in the US history.  Like I said, imagine the state of affairs had McCain and the idiot Alaskan loudmouth that was his first crucial choice won.

This has zero to do with the mishandling the current situation.

All that is being asked is airstrikes.  Obama is on another golf weekend, he'll get back to them next week sometime.  Maybe.


When the US left South Vietnam, the war wasn't lost.  The fall of Saigon wasn't inevitable.  The war was lost when the Democrat Congress cut off funding.  South Vietnam fell because they ran out of fuel and ammo, while the North Vietnamese were very well supplied by China and Russia.

This moral failure led to a million Vietnamese 'boat people', and the final step to power of Pol Pot.


What will the victories of ISIS and al-Qaeda in the Levant lead to?

[PB the Deplorable]

What is it with the Democrats?

In addition to abandoning the South Vietnamese and the people of Iraq, we have everything from Obama abandoning the consulate in Benghazi while it was under attack, to JFK abandoning the Cubans at the Bay of Pigs, to the Democrat Congress in the 1980s trying to force Reagan to abandon the Contras in Nicaragua, abandon the government of El Salvador trying to stave off the FMLN, abandon the government of Columbia fighting FARC.  And that is not nearly the complete list.

It's a dangerous world out there, and certain decisions can mean life or death to millions.  And make us either more or less safe here in the US.  This time, victorious Islamo-fascism may very well ultimately follow us back home - to join those we've already let in.  What will it look like when bombs start going off in our cities?

[Yorkshire pud]

This has zero to do with the mishandling the current situation.

Actually it has everything to do with it. When it comes to mishandling that started way before Obama took office. Air strikes will achieve what exactly? Never in the field of warfare have airstrikes alone secured anything. All they do is delay something, take out a specific target, or lay covering fire for a ground force. That groundforce won't happen. Politically, (Domestically) it's suicide. The very most that could be expected (and probably never officially acknowledged) would be very small SF insertions to help the Iraqi government. But their effectiveness against a philosophy is limited. How do you wage war on a belief? Sunni and Shia both believe they're right.. they'll never ever reach compromise.

The most disgusting disingenuous crap that Bush uttered was the idea of spreading democracy in the Middle East.. It isn't ever going to happen. They understand power...be it on the receiving end of it, or administering it. That was long before any Muslim factions were born.

The West can barely comprehend this: Iraq and Syria were formed after the collapse of the Ottoman empire, trying to squeeze three distinct and separate groups into two. When there hasn't been trouble ever since in one form or another, it's because a dictator (Sponsored by the West) has ruled with ruthless and viscous authority. Power, or fighting.. Or both.