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Started by Quick Karl, June 10, 2014, 04:34:29 PM

Zoo

We can not stop this at all unless we stay for ever, plan and simple. The same thing will happen in Afghanistan when we leave. Maybe just maybe if we stop sticking our nose in everything and going to war over lies we might just be left the fu*k alone!!1

Quote from: Zoo on June 26, 2014, 02:46:14 PM
We can not stop this at all unless we stay for ever, plan and simple. The same thing will happen in Afghanistan when we leave. Maybe just maybe if we stop sticking our nose in everything and going to war over lies we might just be left the fu*k alone!!1


I agree completely, problem is we can't un-attack those two countries.  This is not going to end well for us.

Zoo

Quote from: Paper*Boy on June 26, 2014, 04:18:55 PM

I agree completely, problem is we can't un-attack those two countries.  This is not going to end well for us.

The best thing in my opinion is those who worked with us may leave with us. Once we leave we are done no going back!!1


VtaGeezer

In 2005, Joe Biden predicted that the Shiite-run Iraq backed by the neocons would disenfranchise the other Iraqi groups; leading to sectarian war, and proposed that should Iraq be reconstituted with autonomous Shiite, Sunni, and Kurdish regions in a federation but the President Cheney and the neocons wouldn't hear of it. 


paladin1991

Quote from: Mind Flayer Monk on June 26, 2014, 05:19:09 PM
Say no congress. Fuck that. Time to get on the phone with my congressman.
Let me know if he picks up.

Zoo

You know the funny thing is the USA is the one that gave them the arms and the training.... You could not make this sh*t up if you tried! Syria is how it all began, once again this is the USA making more problems. When will we learn to keep are nose out of sh*t!!1

Quick Karl

Quote from: Zoo on June 28, 2014, 06:25:54 PM
When will we learn to keep are nose out of sh*t!!1

Lemme guess...


NEVER!

The very nature of any person that even dreams they are qualified to BE a politician is the exact reason hey should never be allowed to walk the Earth.

paladin1991

There should be  a draft for political positions.  Your number comes up, guess what?  You're it, for the next 4 years.  Balance your checkbook?  Balance the budget.  Mow your own lawn, paint your own house?  Fix the nations infrastructure.  Do it asshole, because if you don't the next guy might be a politician  and then the fix will be in.
And we will all be screwed.    Again.

You've probably seen the footage, heard the story...  Thoughts?  Left-leaning progressive here (I like progress)... I think the crazed rabble that did this are scum.  I don't believe Jonas was truly swallowed by a whale; his mortal remains may not even have been in that temple.  Nonetheless, destroying a spot considered sacred by Christians, Jews, those who revere antiquity and history--a spot that was now an Islamic mosque to boot!--was hateful.

Yorkshire pud

Quote from: West of the Rockies on July 25, 2014, 09:20:32 AM
You've probably seen the footage, heard the story...  Thoughts?  Left-leaning progressive here (I like progress)... I think the crazed rabble that did this are scum.  I don't believe Jonas was truly swallowed by a whale; his mortal remains may not even have been in that temple.  Nonetheless, destroying a spot considered sacred by Christians, Jews, those who revere antiquity and history--a spot that was now an Islamic mosque to boot!--was hateful.

Similar thing happened in Afghanistan mate. That time it was the Taliban destroying ancient and irreplaceable monuments and structures.

albrecht

Quote from: West of the Rockies on July 25, 2014, 09:20:32 AM
You've probably seen the footage, heard the story...  Thoughts?  Left-leaning progressive here (I like progress)... I think the crazed rabble that did this are scum.  I don't believe Jonas was truly swallowed by a whale; his mortal remains may not even have been in that temple.  Nonetheless, destroying a spot considered sacred by Christians, Jews, those who revere antiquity and history--a spot that was now an Islamic mosque to boot!--was hateful.
One of many, many acts of destruction against ancient (and modern) Christian, Jewish, and even other Muslim sites, churches, temples, mosques, libraries, museums, and shrines (as well as other ancient religions/sects Druze, Zoroastrian, Babylonian, Egyptian, Assyrian, etc.) Crazy thAT we actually support these guys in places like Syria (well, I don't but the administration does.) But it is hard also to lament the destruction of ancient sites considering that they are also lopping off heads and killing actual people of those faiths and traditions on a daily basis and we still run them guns and fund them if they are fighting in the "right" countries. But, still, there is something awful about destruction of history, art, ancient texts, and sites.

VtaGeezer

Most medieval and earlier churches (and mosques in Islamic areas) are built on earlier religious sites with little concern to preservation. It was the norm for millennia. Further, sites tied to OT figures are mostly little more than conjecture or simply invented to attract pilgrims and tourists. Few have notable cultural artifacts; just legend or period-correct pot shards.  In the end its, all just real estate.

Hey, Albrecht, VTA...  I get what you're saying.  In light of actual brutal murders, the destruction of property of dubious genuinely archeological significance is of lesser consequence.  But I also recall a line from Monument Men (I paraphrase):  You can burn people's homes to the ground and destroy their land.  People will come back though, find a way to survive.  But if you destroy their art, their achievements, it's like those people never existed.  You've robbed them of what made them special.

To me, it underscores the danger of extremism of any stripe, shade, texture, be it xenophobic Islamists or Westboro Baptist Church thugs.  (Yes, Islamic nonsense is MORE destructive, but all extremism leads to perdition.)

VtaGeezer

Quote from: West of the Rockies on July 25, 2014, 10:45:31 AM
Hey, Albrecht, VTA...  I get what you're saying.  In light of actual brutal murders, the destruction of property of dubious genuinely archeological significance is of lesser consequence.  But I also recall a line from Monument Men (I paraphrase):  You can burn people's homes to the ground and destroy their land.  People will come back though, find a way to survive.  But if you destroy their art, their achievements, it's like those people never existed.  You've robbed them of what made them special.

To me, it underscores the danger of extremism of any stripe, shade, texture, be it xenophobic Islamists or Westboro Baptist Church thugs.  (Yes, Islamic nonsense is MORE destructive, but all extremism leads to perdition.)
I'm not defending it; just commenting that it's the historical norm (well, maybe the explosives were a bit over the top).  I've seen more about the destruction of "Jonah's tomb" than on the ISIS demand that non-Moslems; i.e. the few remaining Christians; in Mosul convert or face death.

b_dubb

These Islamic extremists are so easily amused when they tear something down or blow something up.  REAL MEN BUILD THINGS. 

Fucking twats.

SciFiAuthor

It's the Wahhabist bent of ISIS. Their type always does shit like this, and as surprising as this might be, their wet dream is to destroy the Islamic holy sites at Mecca and Medina. It's idolatry in their view.

It's not unlike the iconoclasm of the protestant reformation, where various Catholic graven images were destroyed in favor of the plainness of Calvinist churches.

Very unreasonable people, even to fellow muslims and they most definitely want to take over the world in the same grain as the Nazis. We should watch them carefully, and intervene if they appear to be gaining too much power.


SciFiAuthor

About Westboro Baptist Church; it was actually not real. Fred Phelps was originally a civil rights attorney fighting against Jim Crowe laws. The money ran out in that so he started getting crazy with the frivolous suits and was driven from practicing law by the Federal government. Then he attempted multiple times to run for office as a Democrat and start a new career but failed to win any primaries. So he found his shtick by going into the usual professional Baptist preacher bullshit and promoted himself with his outrageousness and made a good living. In truth, he was about as religious as Richard Dawkins's left ass cheek and was just out to disturb shit for a living and make Christians look bad and pull a buck out of it.

Before anyone jumps all over me, I'm an agnostic that leans heavily atheist. I just know how the game is played. Westboro Baptist Church had more kinship with The Onion than it did legitimate Christianity.

albrecht

Quote from: West of the Rockies on July 25, 2014, 10:45:31 AM
Hey, Albrecht, VTA...  I get what you're saying.  In light of actual brutal murders, the destruction of property of dubious genuinely archeological significance is of lesser consequence.  But I also recall a line from Monument Men (I paraphrase):  You can burn people's homes to the ground and destroy their land.  People will come back though, find a way to survive.  But if you destroy their art, their achievements, it's like those people never existed.  You've robbed them of what made them special.

To me, it underscores the danger of extremism of any stripe, shade, texture, be it xenophobic Islamists or Westboro Baptist Church thugs.  (Yes, Islamic nonsense is MORE destructive, but all extremism leads to perdition.)
I get you also. I had a colleague who once questioned why I was donating money to a new museum and not the poor guys setting in the street across from it. It was an interesting argument that I lost (I think) because how can one compare a work of art, a book, a piece of music with a person. But, then again, those were made by a person and now are timeless. I don't know. I just don't like it when stuff is destroyed and not kept for posterity. (You should see my attic and garages. ouch.) I certainly don't like that we talk of genocide, hate, etc so much from our bad history but ignore what is going on in the Middle East and Africa simply because the folks getting killed are various types of Christians, Animists, Folk Religions, etc.

Quote from: SciFiAuthor on July 26, 2014, 12:50:38 AM
... their wet dream is to destroy the Islamic holy sites at Mecca and Medina...


Gosh, that would sure be a shame

albrecht

Quote from: Paper*Boy on July 26, 2014, 05:10:51 AM

Gosh, that would sure be a shame
I don't see why, as speculated in some novels, that there hasn't been a legitimate entity who says "attack me" and we will destroy those sites. How quickly might the various royal families and business interests who make much money from those sites, in addition to the various Mullahs, cut off funds to their more radical friends then?

NowhereInTime

Quote from: Paper*Boy on July 26, 2014, 05:10:51 AM

Gosh, that would sure be a shame
Very revealing look into the dark heart of a conservative.  Thank you.

Quick Karl

Quote from: SciFiAuthor on July 26, 2014, 12:50:38 AM
We should watch them carefully, and intervene if they appear to be gaining too much power.

If you saw a cockroach in your home, would you wait till there were more of them before you start killing them?

Yorkshire pud

Quote from: Quick Karl on July 26, 2014, 10:51:36 AM
If you saw a cockroach in your home, would you wait till there were more of them before you start killing them?


You're leading the way aren't you son? When are you calling the little get together outside Mosul and you can go through tactics and stuff before launching your crusade?

Roughly?

RcCle

Why are they so angry at the Jonas brothers?  BTW, which one of the brothers had a tomb in that part of the world?  I didn't know any passed away....

Unless, of course, you are referring to Jonah's tomb.  That would make more sense.

Quote from: NowhereInTime on July 26, 2014, 10:45:47 AM
Very revealing look into the dark heart of a conservative.  Thank you.


We're not on the side of the 'Death to America crowd'.  Thanks for noticing.


onan

Quote from: Paper*Boy on July 26, 2014, 05:32:35 PM

We're not on the side of the 'Death to America crowd'.  Thanks for noticing.

No you're on the side for letting someone without insurance die.

albrecht

Quote from: onan on July 26, 2014, 06:24:07 PM
No you're on the side for letting someone without insurance die.
Oddly sometimes it is better to have no insurance than a bad plan or even a plan. Had a friend die of cancer and believe it or not early on they advised him to drop his COBRA (since he lost his job due to absences at work) and be uninsured. Otherwise he would be paying a lot and coverage wasn't as good. Then various State and Federal things kick in. It is sort of crazy but the chemo was like $20K each chemical update to the machine they put in him and he didn't pay a dime. Later his wife got him on her plan (pre-Obamacare) and, again believe it or not, they got him on her plan even though he already was in treatment and they paid the bills which were crazy high. But he said at the clinic most of the people he spoke with (when he still could) were uninsured (many possibly illegals because they couldn't speak English.) According to the research she did he was getting the "latest" drugs as were the other patients, so it wasn't like they gave the old chemo drugs or something. It is a crazy system indeed and I've heard stories of those who die because of "no insurance" but I find it hard to believe when every time I went to the hospital or ER I see a lot of uninsured people there. And my two doctor (surgeon) relatives tell me all the time that the hospital and their office gets screwed by Medicare/Medicade not paying market rates and by uninsured people they operate on in the ER. The system is very screwed up.

Quick Karl

The "letting the uninsured die" argument is a red herring stuffed with horse shit.

The uninsured get heart transplants, dialysis, cancer treatments, and whatever they need - but they can't just walk in to the Mayo Clinic and demand the best possible treatment on the planet the very instant they walk in. They have to get the treatment where they can get it, and that may be at a State run Hospital or, God Forbid, a Catholic Hospital that does more free health care than any organization on the face of the planet - but that spoils the Birkenstock crowd's fantasy horse shit about the reality of health care in America.

In the end - people that WORK, are paying for everything that "the uninsured" aren't paying for.


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