ISIS

[Eddie Coyle]

I had missed your posts... This has to be the best comment on this thread.

   Thanks. I'm still miffed that Ken Burns never allows me to fill his works with my uplifting commentary.

[albrecht]

I used to wonder how on earth someone like Hitler could come to power and be so blindly supported in a country with fair elections.  I don't wonder that anymore.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/president-obama-at-gwyneth-paltrow-739778
She gushed: "You're so handsome that I can't speak properly."......"It would be wonderful if we were able to give this man all of the power that he needs to pass the things that he needs to pass."
(And this coming from some lady who just a few years ago said that she was settling in London permanently.) And affected a British accent and said "I don’t fit into the bad side of American psychology. The British are much more intelligent and civilized than the Americans.") Amazing.
ps: I don't knock London and have lived there and visit. A great city. I just knock the amazing adoration of Obama, the hypocrisy, and that people (including Obama) seem to think Hollywood stars are experts on policy, science, morality, etc because they are in the movies.)

[FightTheFuture]

Airstrikes in and around Kobani are having virtually no effect on the advance of ISIS. Obama will probably play golf while the remaining city`s Kurdish residents have their heads sawed off for the cameras. These people are begging for our assistance. But the Chosen One can not be bothered. HE has Hollyweird fund raisers to attend and adoring starlets to dazzle.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/11/world/middleeast/isis-intensifies-siege-of-kurdish-enclave-in-syria.html?_r=0

[VtaGeezer]

Airstrikes in and around Kobani are having virtually no effect on the advance of ISIS. Obama will probably play golf while the remaining city`s Kurdish residents have their heads sawed off for the cameras. These people are begging for our assistance. But the Chosen One can not be bothered. HE has Hollyweird fund raisers to attend and adoring starlets to dazzle.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/11/world/middleeast/isis-intensifies-siege-of-kurdish-enclave-in-syria.html?_r=0

Kobani is isolated from any kind of direct US support on the ground. The US has no means of supporting the Kurdish fighters there, let alone introducing US troops in N Syria. Our great friends, the Turks, won't lift a finger and won't allow any US military support from Turkey. They're making popcorn and selling bleacher seats in the hills above Kobani for the coming massacre of Kurds.  And like it or not, we can't do a damn thing about it.  The Turkish govt has never shed tears over dead Kurds.

Kobani is a sad distraction; the real issue it that no Muslim country will put its troops in front of ISIL.  They understand that ISIL is more of an organic, historic rising of Sunni Arabs, and tribe and The Quran mean more to most than Arab nationalism.  They're advancing under the kabuki of inconsequential Coalition air strikes on wayward ISIL Toyotas.  We're spending $10M/day for this.  If the US commits ground forces, it will open a flood of Sunni street support for ISIL and the fight will be a meat grinder; ISIL is not Saddam's conscript army. Not to mention the state of US forces after 13 years of low-grade war and 3 years of defense budget sequestration forced by ideologues.  This is Obama's quandary.

[FightTheFuture]

Kobani is isolated from any kind of direct US support on the ground. The US has no means of supporting the Kurdish fighters there, let alone introducing US troops in N Syria. Our great friends, the Turks, won't lift a finger and won't allow any US military support from Turkey. They're making popcorn and selling bleacher seats in the hills above Kobani for the coming massacre of Kurds.  And like it or not, we can't do a damn thing about it.  The Turkish govt has never shed tears over dead Kurds.

Kobani is a sad distraction; the real issue it that no Muslim country will put its troops in front of ISIL.  They understand that ISIL is more of an organic, historic rising of Sunni Arabs, and tribe and The Quran mean more to most than Arab nationalism.  They're advancing under the kabuki of inconsequential Coalition air strikes on wayward ISIL Toyotas.  We're spending $10M/day for this.  If the US commits ground forces, it will open a flood of Sunni street support for ISIL and the fight will be a meat grinder; ISIL is not Saddam's conscript army. Not to mention the state of US forces after 13 years of low-grade war and 3 years of defense budget sequestration forced by ideologues.  This is Obama's quandary.

Who gives a crap what the Turks think? The Turks are our alleged strategic allies; the Kurds are our friends. Huge difference!

We could have -- minimum -- 15,000 combat troops, including artillery and close air support, in Kobani within 32 hours, if we had the will to do so. We could do a lot of things, but instead, we choose to allow our friends and allies to be slaughtered. It`s sickening beyond description.

BTW, our armed forces have never been better and I`ve been around them in one capacity or other for DECADES. They`re honed to a fine sharpened point.
.
Frankly, I haven`t any idea how Obama sleeps at night. The man is either pure evil or a stone cold sociopath. Either way, he is positively disgusting as well as a disgrace to our friends around the globe.

[Yorkshire pud]

Who gives a crap what the Turks think? The Turks are our alleged strategic allies; the Kurds are our friends. Huge difference!

We could have -- minimum -- 15,000 combat troops, including artillery and close air support, in Kobani within 32 hours, if we had the will to do so. We could do a lot of things, but instead, we choose to allow our friends and allies to be slaughtered. It`s sickening beyond description.

BTW, our armed forces have never been better and I`ve been around them in one capacity or other for DECADES. They`re honed to a fine sharpened point.
.
Frankly, I haven`t any idea how Obama sleeps at night. The man is either pure evil or a stone cold sociopath. Either way, he is positively disgusting as well as a disgrace to our friends around the globe.

And of course you have your other 320 million fellow citizens in agreement with you....Quite apart from the fact Vta is probably right. Dropping US troops into that region now would likely do more harm than good. But you be sure to write to the families and tell em why they lost their sons and daughters in yet another conflict because politicians over the last 50-80 years fucked it up.

[FightTheFuture]

And of course you have your other 320 million fellow citizens in agreement with you....Quite apart from the fact Vta is probably right. Dropping US troops into that region now would likely do more harm than good. But you be sure to write to the families and tell em why they lost their sons and daughters in yet another conflict because politicians over the last 50-80 years fucked it up.

"               "you`re an odd motherfucker"

                          -- The General

[Yorkshire pud]

"               "you`re an odd motherfucker"

                          -- The General

At least be bloody original. Just insulting someone because you don't understand isn't a good move. If you don't understand, say so.

[VtaGeezer]

Who gives a crap what the Turks think? The Turks are our alleged strategic allies; the Kurds are our friends. Huge difference!

We could have -- minimum -- 15,000 combat troops, including artillery and close air support, in Kobani within 32 hours, if we had the will to do so. We could do a lot of things, but instead, we choose to allow our friends and allies to be slaughtered. It`s sickening beyond description.

You shouldn't be smoking that shit so early in the day. 

[FightTheFuture]

You shouldn't be smoking that shit so early in the day.

I think, unlike you, I`ve been there, and done that. I know exactly what our military is capable of.

Unfortunately, our president is far more concerned with political expediency than doing what is right.

Finally, Isn`t all that water you`re carrying for Obama starting to get a bit heavy these days??

[Yorkshire pud]

I think, unlike you, I`ve been there, and done that. I know exactly what our military is capable of.

Unfortunately, our president is far more concerned with political expediency than doing what is right.

Finally, Isn`t all that water you`re carrying for Obama starting to get a bit heavy these days??

Fortunately you don't have to take a strategic view of the consequences when you're a squaddie. You just aim your weapon forward and shoot when you're told. It's why we haven't (so far) razed the planet to a  tinder wasteland. Just because you think you know what the military is capable of, doesn't mean it should be done. There's no appetite in the US or the UK for more body bags to be flown back, and politicians wringing their hands saying it's a good thing. That isn't to say we won't see it happen, but when it does, it will not be popular, and will be prolonged and destructive to all concerned. 

[albrecht]

the real issue it that no Muslim country will put its troops in front of ISIL. 

Syria and Iran will, if we let them by not intervening and/or removing some of the sanctions. Iran itself could take out ISIS fairly quickly. Of course, this risks a wider Sunni/Shia conflict elsewhere. But, in a way, I couldn't care less (unless it went nuclear.) Rather have the Muslim fight each other there than move here or attack us.

[FightTheFuture]

Fortunately you don't have to take a strategic view of the consequences when you're a squaddie. You just aim your weapon forward and shoot when you're told. It's why we haven't (so far) razed the planet to a  tinder wasteland. Just because you think you know what the military is capable of, doesn't mean it should be done. There's no appetite in the US or the UK for more body bags to be flown back, and politicians wringing their hands saying it's a good thing. That isn't to say we won't see it happen, but when it does, it will not be popular, and will be prolonged and destructive to all concerned.

A Wall Street Journal/NBC News survey asked respondents if they would favor boots on the ground “if it were determined by the military commanders that the best way to defeat the ISIS army was to use American military troops on the ground.” A plurality of respondents -- 45 percent -- said they would favor ground troops, 37 percent said they were opposed, 16 percent had no opinion either way and 2 percent weren’t sure.

Not that it matters, but 72% of Americans are not able to name the USSC Chief Jusice.

[VtaGeezer]

Sending in the Airborne may feel good but would only strip Cent Com of its rapid deployment reserves while ISIL pops up somewhere else, like Baghdad.  Getting them out is a lot harder than getting them in. Kobani has no strategic value in the long term fight against ISIL; it should have been evacuated by the Turkish Army...but its a Kurdish town, so fat chance.  The actual fight is not very big; seems like maybe a brigade level action, but it's hundreds of miles from support for US troops.  As soon as the first US boot hits the ground, every f'ing Sunni jihadi for a hundred miles will head for the fight.  How many Americans should die for Kobani?  Almost a hundred Americans died and 500 were wounded taking Fallujah, Iraq, and those were just pick-up insurgents they were fighting. ISIL is a different animal.

I think Turkey is the real villain here.  Erdogan playing its NATO role and Black Sea access off against pissing off both America and NATO.  Not to mention his linkage of support to direct US action against Assad.

Kobani is likely going to be another Srebrenica, but don't hang it on Obama.  There's hell of a lot more going on than what Wolf and Bill-O are reporting.

[DigitalPigSnuggler]

Who gives a crap what the Turks think? The Turks are our alleged strategic allies; the Kurds are our friends. Huge difference!

There sure is!  According to George Washington, nations align themselves because it is in their interests to do so, and it is folly to engage in a partnership with another nation solely based on "friendship."  There is a lot of time-tested wisdom in that statement.  Apparently you disagree with it, based on your repeated postings talking about "friendship" and "promises" and other such sentimental claptrap.  You're the best friend a guy like Putin ever had in the USA.

Frankly, I haven`t any idea how Obama sleeps at night. The man is either pure evil or a stone cold sociopath. Either way, he is positively disgusting as well as a disgrace to our friends around the globe.

I guess that's because he's more in line with a thinker like Washington than he is with right-wing chest-thumpers.  Imagine the nerve.

[PB the Deplorable]

... it is folly to engage in a partnership with another nation solely based on "friendship."...

Well, it wouldn't be solely based on 'friendship'.  It is in the security interest of the United States to eliminate ISIS.

By the way, the Kurds have been begging for weapons and ammunition to fight ISIS for a year.  Since the great usurper didn't do that, ISIS could have been slowed and denied most of the armor and material they seized from overrun Iraqi bases by using airstrikes when they were moving up and down those highways.  Since the great usurper didn't do that... here we are, on the brink of another genocide.

So what is it today - fund raiser, golf, photo ops, another party?

[VtaGeezer]

It's reported that Turkey has been shamed into allowing Incirlik and other Turkish NATO bases to be used to stage strikes on ISIL.  I hope so, but will believe it when it happens.  I also saw a report that the A-10s of the Indiana Air Guard have been put on alert for "a deployment".  About f'ing time. One last hurrah for the Warthog.

[paladin1991]

It's reported that Turkey has been shamed into allowing Incirlik and other Turkish NATO bases to be used to stage strikes on ISIL.  I hope so, but will believe it when it happens.  I also saw a report that the A-10s of the Indiana Air Guard have been put on alert for "a deployment".  About f'ing time. One last hurrah for the Warthog.

Some 'experts' have been predicting that for a decade or more.  That war would 'advance beyond its capabilities' or some such nonsense.
I saw those fuckers work in the first gulf war.  Get on the radio and call for death. You know him when you see him.  He looks like a Warthog.

[VtaGeezer]

Some 'experts' have been predicting that for a decade or more.  That war would 'advance beyond its capabilities' or some such nonsense.
I saw those fuckers work in the first gulf war.  Get on the radio and call for death. You know him when you see him.  He looks like a Warthog.

The A10 has shown its high value for close support but always gets the hind tit from the Af.  It's time to take the job away from them and give it to the Army where it won't have to complete with the current massive AF acquisition over-run; this time the F35.  The A10 an amazing aircraft in action.

On the other...seems Turkey is renegging today.

[FightTheFuture]

Give 'em hell, ladies


http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Peace/2014/10/13/Female-Kurdish-Fighter-Mayassa-Abdo-Leads-Fights-Against-ISIS-in-Kobane

[paladin1991]

Give 'em hell, ladies


http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Peace/2014/10/13/Female-Kurdish-Fighter-Mayassa-Abdo-Leads-Fights-Against-ISIS-in-Kobane

Get some, Ladies!  Get some!  Remember to lead the fuckers, just a tad.

[SciFiAuthor]

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/10/14/world/middleeast/us-casualties-of-iraq-chemical-weapons.html?_r=0

Jesus Christ, just when you think Saddam's WMD's are a dead issue, they make a come back. First it was Saddam has chemical weapons, then he doesn't have them but what he did have we manufactured for him, then we find buried ones which means he might have had them and hid them, or not and simply forgot where they were, and then they exploded and we classified it and now ISIS has them because for some reason we didn't destroy them when we controlled Iraq.

And now we've got a new Ebola case this morning! That makes three "highly unlikely" cases! Nice job government!

[albrecht]

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/10/14/world/middleeast/us-casualties-of-iraq-chemical-weapons.html?_r=0

Jesus Christ, just when you think Saddam's WMD's are a dead issue, they make a come back. First it was Saddam has chemical weapons, then he doesn't have them but what he did have we manufactured for him, then we find buried ones which means he might have had them and hid them, or not and simply forgot where they were, and then they exploded and we classified it and now ISIS has them because for some reason we didn't destroy them when we controlled Iraq.

And now we've got a new Ebola case this morning! That makes three "highly unlikely" cases! Nice job government!

I recall some article and CIA or British reference to these Iraqi WMDs several months ago. Also stories years ago of transfer of chemical stockpiles into Syria (both Baathist leaders.) In any event, "Bush Lied, People Died" mantra will be chanted as we start to escalate the war(s) again under Obama. Especially now that Obama's rebels might get their hand on chemical weapons we will likely need actual troops at some point to fight those rebels-turned-ISIS.

[PB the Deplorable]

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/10/14/world/middleeast/us-casualties-of-iraq-chemical-weapons.html?_r=0

Jesus Christ, just when you think Saddam's WMD's are a dead issue, they make a come back. First it was Saddam has chemical weapons, then he doesn't have them but what he did have we manufactured for him, then we find buried ones which means he might have had them and hid them, or not and simply forgot where they were, and then they exploded and we classified it and now ISIS has them because for some reason we didn't destroy them when we controlled Iraq.

And now we've got a new Ebola case this morning! That makes three "highly unlikely" cases! Nice job government!

It's all hysteria and right wing bullshit, bro.  Don't you know there's a war on women, and homophobia and stuff?

Besides, there's an 11 o'clock tee-time, and a fundraiser after the Presidential Nap

[VtaGeezer]

It's all hysteria and right wing bullshit, bro.  Don't you know there's a war on women, and homophobia and stuff?

Besides, there's an 11 o'clock tee-time, and a fundraiser after the Presidential Nap

Just to be clear, the justifications for invading Iraq and killing over 100,000 Iraqis were the phonied-up evidence of bio and nuke programs; not the remnants of chem weapons abandoned under supervision over a decade earlier.  When Powell went to the UN he presented fake evidence of an anthrax program, and the BS about AL tubes and Nigerian yellow cake ore. 

[Uncle Duke]

I recall some article and CIA or British reference to these Iraqi WMDs several months ago. Also stories years ago of transfer of chemical stockpiles into Syria (both Baathist leaders.) In any event, "Bush Lied, People Died" mantra will be chanted as we start to escalate the war(s) again under Obama. Especially now that Obama's rebels might get their hand on chemical weapons we will likely need actual troops at some point to fight those rebels-turned-ISIS.

Saddam had a history of moving weapons to other countries.  In the Iran v. Iraq war, he sent a/c and surface-to-surface missiles to Jordan to keep them safe from Iranian air and missile strikes.  In Desert Storm, he sent a good portion of his air force to Iran to keep it safe from Coalition air strikes and fighters.  Stands to reason he would have sent his chem weapons elsewhere (Syria?  Sudan?) to keep them safe during Iraqi Freedom. 

[DigitalPigSnuggler]

Saddam had a history of moving weapons to other countries.  In the Iran v. Iraq war, he sent a/c and surface-to-surface missiles to Jordan to keep them safe from Iranian air and missile strikes.  In Desert Storm, he sent a good portion of his air force to Iran to keep it safe from Coalition air strikes and fighters.  Stands to reason he would have sent his chem weapons elsewhere (Syria?  Sudan?) to keep them safe during Iraqi Freedom.

Accepting chemical weapons from Iraq for safekeeping is quite a different thing than accepting aircraft or missiles.  Particularly when the stated goal of Gulf II was finding and destroying those weapons because we perceived them as a national security threat.

[VtaGeezer]

Saddam had a history of moving weapons to other countries.  In the Iran v. Iraq war, he sent a/c and surface-to-surface missiles to Jordan to keep them safe from Iranian air and missile strikes.  In Desert Storm, he sent a good portion of his air force to Iran to keep it safe from Coalition air strikes and fighters.  Stands to reason he would have sent his chem weapons elsewhere (Syria?  Sudan?) to keep them safe during Iraqi Freedom.

I had wondered about the fate of those planes that fled to Iran and was surprised to read a few months back that Iran only just returned them, when the ISIS/Sunni threat to their Shiite pals in Baghdad got hot.  Seeing that they returned to Iraq after 20 years, I wouldn't characterize it as a planned or authorized "move"; more like the IAF pilots (Shiite?) just took them to get their butts out of Dodge. 

[Gd5150]

Speaking of "Bush Lied People Died" we already have the loser leftwinger war protestors out once again in CA. Anything to give them an excuse to get together and listen to John Lennon and smoke weed. Brought back memories of their worthless ignorant protests in 2003.

There were about 100 different reasons we went into Iraq, all were valid. WMDs, a nukular weapons program, oil, a tyrant leader, UN inspectors kicked out during Clinton, a massive threat to national security. Unfortunately democrats and the media put polical aspirations way ahead of foreign policy, freedom for people of the Middle East or national security. And they succeeded of couse as now we have elected the most inexperienced president in history and for 2 terms.

"Earlier today, I ordered America's armed forces to strike military and security targets in Iraq. They are joined by British forces. Their mission is to attack Iraq's nuclear, chemical and biological weapons programs and its military capacity to threaten its neighbors." Bill Clinton - 1998

http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/stories/1998/12/16/transcripts/clinton.html

[Uncle Duke]

Accepting chemical weapons from Iraq for safekeeping is quite a different thing than accepting aircraft or missiles.  Particularly when the stated goal of Gulf II was finding and destroying those weapons because we perceived them as a national security threat.

All depends on whether the Iraqis and Syrians believed the US would go into Syria to retrieve or destroy them.  If they felt that likelihood low, then it was worth the risk.  I'd think the Syrians would have been more concerned with how Israel reacted more so than US.