Illegal immigration

[NowhereInTime]

It gets a free pass because they are still swooning over Dear Leader.  This 'Progressivism' may not be a mental disease as Michael Savage claims, but if it isn't then it's their religion.

Or, in fact, a system of values and beliefs, some of which were derived by religious teachings, others by common sense, and still others by a sense of justice.

Alien concepts to a conservative.

So this incredibly destructive person  currently occupying the White House continues to get a pass from them.

Obamazilla!

They are attacking us on every front they can think of, this particular enterprise - flooding the country with 1) young diseased illiterate foreigners in order for them to continue overwhelming our welfare and health care systems, and 2) criminals, cartel and gang members to go on a crime spree around the country - is right out of their Commie textbooks.

Blahbitty.

It's called the Cloward-Piven Strategy.

It's called the Clownshoes-Paper*Boy Paranoid Rant.

[Quick Karl]

You know why we give a "free pass"?  Because many of us, too, got a free pass into this country.

You are such a moronic asshole it isn't even funny anymore. Previously you were to just some adolescent joke-douche; now you are beginning to border on true idiot-lunacy. But your fucked-up logic everyone one the fucking planet should fling open the doors to their home because somewhere in history, they came from somewhere else?

How many fucking illegals are you housing and feeding?

Fucking asshole.

[NowhereInTime]

You are such a moronic asshole it isn't even funny anymore. Previously you were to just some adolescent joke-douche; now you are beginning to border on true idiot-lunacy. But your fucked-up logic everyone one the fucking planet should fling open the doors to their home because somewhere in history, they came from somewhere else?

How many fucking illegals are you housing and feeding?

Fucking asshole.

Oh, good, more feces flung from the gorilla cage.

What's the matter, pookums?  Feds got your kiddie porn? Again?

[NowhereInTime]

My idea is the immigrants are being groomed as potential 2016 voters to keep this runaway train on the tracks, and at full speed. Nobody in their right minds, even the Dems should be so enthusiastic to see all of this taking place.
I see democratic politicians very excited at all of this, and it's just strange as fuck.

Not so strange.  Dems do better when people who work hard get fed up with people who sit idly by and reap the benefits.
On the surface, you would assume that to be the lay about white trash in Clay County, KY (the POOREST area in the whole country) when, in fact, it really means the scumbag Mitt Romney types who get the privilege to join a limited, exclusive club that finds ever so clever ways to siphon trillions from this economy using tricks and dodges.
I hire you while sitting on this board, you hire me while sitting on that board, we all hang out in the Hamptons behind guarded, fenced in properties our ancestors deceived the stupid redmen out of centuries back and have a great chuckle about fooling the unwashed worker bees.
It's time for people to start respecting each other. No more exclusion.  No more inherited wealth. No more WASP hegemony.  Fuck it, nobody stopping anybody from leaving now, is there?

[albrecht]

Not so strange.  Dems do better when people who work hard get fed up with people who sit idly by and reap the benefits.
On the surface, you would assume that to be the lay about white trash in Clay County, KY (the POOREST area in the whole country) when, in fact, it really means the scumbag Mitt Romney types who get the privilege to join a limited, exclusive club that finds ever so clever ways to siphon trillions from this economy using tricks and dodges.
I hire you while sitting on this board, you hire me while sitting on that board, we all hang out in the Hamptons behind guarded, fenced in properties our ancestors deceived the stupid redmen out of centuries back and have a great chuckle about fooling the unwashed worker bees.
It's time for people to start respecting each other. No more exclusion.  No more inherited wealth. No more WASP hegemony.  Fuck it, nobody stopping anybody from leaving now, is there?

Once again, how is importing more diseased, uneducated, and criminal people going to help solve the problems? Even in Kentucky (unless they are planning to do a modern version of the "Plan of San Diego" and simply slit all those poor white folk's throat?)

And so you say "no more WASPs", "why don't you just leave?", "nobody is stopping you from leaving?" and other absurd statements. I don't say that people should leave but, ok to take your advice, when that was tried once the government said it was illegal and we fought a very bloody war over it. Even today anytime a state or county says "no mas" -to use a phrase an illegal or Hector "Macho" Camacho would understand- the Federal government says no. Flee the country? Well, some are doing it. But in the Obama economy it is very expensive to do so since many are living almost hand-to-mouth (unless they are given welfare, in which case they can't leave either.) But even if you can you have to be very, very rich to do it. Because even then the IRS takes a good chunk of your money, then there are the capital controls, and the new FATCA rules. And the US government says it is illegal to give up your citizenship for "tax purposes" and so will tax your income even when you don't live in the USA. And where to go, especially when the home of the WASP is also currently being over-run? And most other countries of the world, aside from the US, actually has an immigration policy and only likes to accept key skilled or rich individuals.

[NowhereInTime]

Once again, how is importing more diseased, uneducated, and criminal people going to help solve the problems? Even in Kentucky (unless they are planning to do a modern version of the "Plan of San Diego" and simply slit all those poor white folk's throat?)

And so you say "no more WASPs", "why don't you just leave?", "nobody is stopping you from leaving?" and other absurd statements. I don't say that people should leave but, ok to take your advice, when that was tried once the government said it was illegal and we fought a very bloody war over it. Even today anytime a state or county says "no mas" -to use a phrase an illegal or Hector "Macho" Camacho would understand- the Federal government says no. Flee the country? Well, some are doing it. But in the Obama economy it is very expensive to do so since many are living almost hand-to-mouth (unless they are given welfare, in which case they can't leave.) But even if you can you have to be very, very rich to do it. Because even then the IRS takes a good chunch of your money, then there are the capital controls, and the new FATCA rules. And the US government says it is illegal to give up your citizenship for "tax purposes" and so will tax your income even when you don't live in the USA. And where to go, especially when the home of the WASP is also currently being over-run?

Alaska appears to be becoming a libertarian paradise.  Vast, spacious, resourceful, beautiful. Some indigenous brown skins to look down upon. Things to shoot.
Saddle up!

[albrecht]

Alaska appears to be becoming a libertarian paradise.  Vast, spacious, resourceful, beautiful. Some indigenous brown skins to look down upon. Things to shoot.
Saddle up!

Lots are. Or heading up to Montana, Idaho, Oregon, Washington, etc (especially the Hollywood types buying up big ranches.) But my basic premise is why should we be forced to move? If we have no border why even claim to have a country? And if we don't have a country than why are we paying taxes or obeying government regulations? It would seem to me if an illegal can trample and trash out precious, fragile desert areas than why can't I or a large corporation even? Or even a Bundy? You claim to like the environment. Ever been to Mexico? Like how they handle their environment, sewage system, landfills, trash? Or how they restrain their corporations and oil, gas, and mining companies? Or how they treat animals (not even talking the fun bullfights and cockfights?) Or how about that awesome economic disparity of income or equal rights in Mexico and those Central American countries? A model for us all! Bring them here. They will save the USA with those ideals!

More help for the economy and culture! Yeah! MS-13 members can bring valuable skills to our country much in need of them! Call him a "dreamer", Obama! Si Se Puede!
http://www.krgv.com/news/ms-13-member-arrested-in-la-grulla/

[MV/Liberace!]

Illegals pay a lot into Social Security when they aren't paid under the table.

So do those who are here legally.  Also, by definition, wouldn't an illegal immigrant inherently be paying nothing into social security?

And they spend a lot of money when they are here.

again, so do legal residents.  actually, legal residents surely spend more than illegals since they don't get paid under the table at half the minimum wage while paying nearly zero rent living in trailers packed with 20 people sleeping on the floor.

[b_dubb]

So do those who are here legally.  Also, by definition, wouldn't an illegal immigrant inherently be paying nothing into social security?

Some illegals assume a social security so they can work. Don't know where they can get Ss# or who they belonged to. But when they return from whence they came that money stays here

[NowhereInTime]

Lots are. Or heading up to Montana, Idaho, Oregon, Washington, etc (especially the Hollywood types buying up big ranches.) But my basic premise is why should we be forced to move? If we have no border why even claim to have a country? And if we don't have a country than why are we paying taxes or obeying government regulations? It would seem to me if an illegal can trample and trash out precious, fragile desert areas than why can't I or a large corporation even? Or even a Bundy? You claim to like the environment. Ever been to Mexico? Like how they handle their environment, sewage system, landfills, trash? Or how they restrain their corporations and oil, gas, and mining companies? Or how they treat animals (not even talking the fun bullfights and cockfights?) Or how about that awesome economic disparity of income or equal rights in Mexico and those Central American countries? A model for us all! Bring them here. They will save the USA with those ideals!

More help for the economy and culture! Yeah! MS-13 members can bring valuable skills to our country much in need of them! Call him a "dreamer", Obama! Si Se Puede!
http://www.krgv.com/news/ms-13-member-arrested-in-la-grulla/

So, Mr. MS-13, what makes the Mexicans different from the Gambinos, Bonnanos and Lucheses? How are they worse than the Westies? The Black Hand? Whitey Bulger?

My basic premise is that no one should be forced to move, but who are you to say "Okay, I'm here, but it looks like we're filled up so let me close the hatch behind me"?

Why not throw out a bunch of Italians, first? The Irish? Lord knows they are all over the Northeast.  Come and get'em!

[NowhereInTime]

So do those who are here legally.  Also, by definition, wouldn't an illegal immigrant inherently be paying nothing into social security?

Not if they had an advocate inside a DMV who could gin up a legal ID with legal attached Social, DMV ID, and other ID points.  We had three people in CT arrested for that, but it happens. Forgeries are worse; the Chinese do so well I cannot distinguish between legit and fake using the latest detection equipment.  Photos, holograms, barcodes, watermarks, they got it all figured out.
Any illegal can walk into a two bit retail store, drop their shiny ID on the I-9 form, and none's the wiser.  Now they are legal, tax paying, Social Security paying, and FICA paying workers.

again, so do legal residents.  actually, legal residents surely spend more than illegals since they don't get paid under the table at half the minimum wage while paying nearly zero rent living in trailers packed with 20 people sleeping on the floor.

Actually, they do spend quite vigorously on fees for Western Union, MoneyGram (which I think is something else now) and other transfer services.  They skirt detection by sending just less than $10,000 a shot, thus avoiding reporting laws (again, in a retail environment, do you think some clerk making $9 an hour is going to dime the Feds?) and they send a fortune back to country of origin to feed their families. 
They also spend tremendous sums on consumable goods like, say, Cerveza.  I sell a ton to guys who've been working all day and just want an 18 of Modelo with which to go home and kick back.

For the record, I've met many a drunken Mexican but never a lazy or entitled one.  And, again, before anybody pipes in, Hartford - 74% Latino, New Haven (where I work) 67% Latino; Bridgeport blah, blah,blah you get the point.

[Foodlion]

So, Mr. MS-13, what makes the Mexicans different from the Gambinos, Bonnanos and Lucheses? How are they worse than the Westies? The Black Hand? Whitey Bulger?

My basic premise is that no one should be forced to move, but who are you to say "Okay, I'm here, but it looks like we're filled up so let me close the hatch behind me"?

Why not throw out a bunch of Italians, first? The Irish? Lord knows they are all over the Northeast.  Come and get'em!

The difference is the Mafia days of the familia are over. The MS-13 is very much alive... and probably recruiting A LOT of new members today.

[NowhereInTime]

The difference is the Mafia days of the familia are over. The MS-13 is very much alive... and probably recruiting A LOT of new members today.

Foodlion, I like you.

So keep that in mind as I say to you, if you really believe the mafia days are "over", then I've got a beautiful bridge with a great view that I'd like to offer you a great price on...

As for MS-13?  What makes anybody here believe stopping 5 year olds with loaded diapers and running noses will possible impede the growth of any voracious gang?

[albrecht]

So, Mr. MS-13, what makes the Mexicans different from the Gambinos, Bonnanos and Lucheses? How are they worse than the Westies? The Black Hand? Whitey Bulger?

My basic premise is that no one should be forced to move, but who are you to say "Okay, I'm here, but it looks like we're filled up so let me close the hatch behind me"?

Why not throw out a bunch of Italians, first? The Irish? Lord knows they are all over the Northeast.  Come and get'em!

I'm not saying they are worse. Well, yes, I am I guess. The total number of killed by even the most violent of the Italian mob doesn't match just the past few years in Mexico, much less in Guatamala or El Salvador. Having said that, I agree, that the wave of immigrants from Southern Europe and Ireland caused a lot of problems for the USA (Typhoid Mary, organized crime, corruption, old religious/sectarian conflicts, etc) and would've likely been better off just keeping immigration from England, Scotland, Scandinavia, and Northern Europe and certainly never had slavery, especially the African slavery that was a devastating system both on black people and continent of Africa (although many of them participated in it greatly) but also on our country both black& white. But, eventually, these immigrants assimilated. Sure you still have some organized crime from the Italians. Sure you can find terrorists raising money in some south Boston bar on a occasion. Sure we have problems with the Germans, especially with the more recent immigrant Bavarian Catholic ones, during WWII and the German-American Bund and the like but short-lived.  Generally most of these immigrants have assimilated. Not so much with many of the more recent groups- especially when they come over in such great numbers with no background checks for criminal history, education, wealth, disease, etc.

But that is all besides the point. Water under the bridge. The point is we still have some problems from immigrants of the past. So bringing more will help? We have mafia and crime. So bringing even more ultra-violent cartels and gangs from Central America and Mexico will help? We have problems in our schools and education. So bringing in illiterate (even in their native tongue) people will help? We have a bad economy, especially in many cities. So bringing in more uneducated, cheap labor will help? We have lots of problems with our healthcare system? So importing more diseased and uninsured people will help?

[Foodlion]

Foodlion, I like you.

So keep that in mind as I say to you, if you really believe the mafia days are "over", then I've got a beautiful bridge with a great view that I'd like to offer you a great price on...

As for MS-13?  What makes anybody here believe stopping 5 year olds with loaded diapers and running noses will possible impede the growth of any voracious gang?

You're probably right. The Mafia hasn't shown it's ugly head in a long time, but probably is around. I just don't think that even if it came out in full swing it would pose much of the pain these new street gangs are. When I did my searching on this whole illegal immigration issue and saw some of the more recent pictures of gang violence, I felt scared out of my wits.
I saw some shit that even a war torn-asshole of a soldier would pucker for.  People getting their heads cut off with chain saws, guys with 1000 knives sticking out of their bodies, women executed naked by masked men, men getting stabbed in the eyes. If this stuff is already happening in Mexico. I'm more in fear of the cartel by far, than the Mafia at this point. Hell, these guys make the Muzzie extreamest look good.

[albrecht]

Foodlion, I like you.

So keep that in mind as I say to you, if you really believe the mafia days are "over", then I've got a beautiful bridge with a great view that I'd like to offer you a great price on...

As for MS-13?  What makes anybody here believe stopping 5 year olds with loaded diapers and running noses will possible impede the growth of any voracious gang?

Speaking of which the last of the "old day" gangsters from Detroit family died I think yesterday. Last guy who would likely know about Hoffa.

As for MS-13, as you admitted to me last week, gangs recruit particularly from youth. Especially youth that has broken families, poor, or uneducated in urban environments. (I can show you the stats again but you will remember or can google it.) Even in the US that is the "labor pool" they recruit from. In Mexico and Central America they recruit even younger. Most of the illegal "children" in detention can range up into late teens. Hardly children, especially in their own countries. It is the perfect recruiting ground for gangs of all persuasions.

[b_dubb]

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_impact_of_illegal_immigrants_in_the_United_States

[NowhereInTime]

Speaking of which the last of the "old day" gangsters from Detroit family died I think yesterday. Last guy who would likely know about Hoffa.

As for MS-13, as you admitted to me last week, gangs recruit particularly from youth. Especially youth that has broken families, poor, or uneducated in urban environments. (I can show you the stats again but you will remember or can google it.) Even in the US that is the "labor pool" they recruit from. In Mexico and Central America they recruit even younger. Most of the illegal "children" in detention can range up into late teens. Hardly children, especially in their own countries. It is the perfe
ct recruiting ground for gangs of all persuasions.

True, but there are already many recruitable kids in the neighborhood.  I don't know that's really a function of this migration.

[albrecht]

http://www.krgv.com/news/report-debunks-explanation-behind-mass-exodus-from-central-america/

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/penny-starr/hhs-96-45157-illegal-alien-children-discharged-sponsor-us
"“These kids have come here illegally,” Broun said. “They’ve been lawbreakers already, and you place them with families -- and it’s my understanding that some of these families may be illegal themselves, is that correct?”
“I’m sure that’s true in certain circumstances, yes,” Johnson said.
The number of unaccompanied alien children taken into CBP custody has increased from 27,884 in fiscal year 2013 to 57,535 in fiscal year 2014 through June â€" or a 106 percent increase, according to the agency."

For more information and the nice, friendly illegals and beautiful, peaceful culture they are bringing to a neighborhood near you:
www.borderlandbeat.com (en Ingles)
http://www.blogdelnarco.com/ (en Espanol)

some link I saw about a movie, maybe, going to be made. I'm not sure on it. One would have to be a complete idiot to not be aware of the problem. Or completely aware but complicit, or at least supportive, of the problem and rooting for the reconquesta and the cartels.
http://www.backtotheborder.com/

-sent from FEMA Region VI-

[nooryisawesome]

Saw a bus load of those illeagal fucks chowin down on Whataburger. Paid for buy the America taxpayer.

During the same drive home, i saw poor homeless American begging for money to eat. WTF

Mexicans feel they have the right to enter this country. That is a fact.

[FightTheFuture]

I can`t even begin to tell you how many private contractors in the Myrtle Beach area use illegals. They are driving wages into the dirt, putting respectable, LAW ABIDING, contractors out of business. Don`t even get me started on what they are doing to the culture.

[albrecht]

I can`t even begin to tell you how many private contractors in the Myrtle Beach area use illegals. They are driving wages into the dirt, putting respectable, LAW ABIDING, contractors out of business. Don`t even get me started on what they are doing to the culture.

What is also interesting is how many relatively mundane crimes illegals get away with on a daily basis. I get pulled over, actually stopped while driving, when I forgot to renew my inspection sticker on my truck. Ticket (dismissed since I got it inspected quickly) but had to show my license (valid) and insurance (real) and deal with the hassle. But everyday I see trucks and cars of illegals hanging out at Home Depot, the Circle K, and driving around with bad inspection stickers, no registration (or out of date) and see police simply drive-by and never stop them. Even walk right past the cars at Circle K. See the same guys buying beer at lunchtime and popping them open in the truck. No stop for open-container. Not wearing seat-belts, etc. I have never seen a truck load of illegals pulled over except on major highways (drug trafficking likely.) One time a new gal at the Exxon actually was carding people for beer and the Mexican in front of me didn't understand. Then finally pulled out some kind of a foreign license or id of some type and bought his beer. (Technically, that is a crime also since only a state issued id or military id is allowed for proof to buy alcohol.)

Sure little things. Not the major crimes illegals often commit- like rape, murder, DUI accidents, child molesting, etc but why do such petty laws apply to any American- but not to illegals? Why do we need a driver's license, insurance, inspection, registration, seat-belts, and cannot enjoy a "cerveza" while driving- but they can with seeming immunity?

[Bart Ell]

I can`t even begin to tell you how many private contractors in the Myrtle Beach area use illegals. They are driving wages into the dirt, putting respectable, LAW ABIDING, contractors out of business. Don`t even get me started on what they are doing to the culture.

Yeah it is the illegals fault for that. Or even the private contractor.
It has absolutely nothing to do with the American looking to get the job done for as cheap as possible, right?

The culture? Myrtle Beach? You mean the illegals don't make sexytime with their sisters?

[FightTheFuture]

What is also interesting is how many relatively mundane crimes illegals get away with on a daily basis. I get pulled over, actually stopped while driving, when I forgot to renew my inspection sticker on my truck. Ticket (dismissed since I got it inspected quickly) but had to show my license (valid) and insurance (real) and deal with the hassle. But everyday I see trucks and cars of illegals hanging out at Home Depot, the Circle K, and driving around with bad inspection stickers, no registration (or out of date) and see police simply drive-by and never stop them. Even walk right past the cars at Circle K. See the same guys buying beer at lunchtime and popping them open in the truck. No stop for open-container. Not wearing seat-belts, etc. I have never seen a truck load of illegals pulled over except on major highways (drug trafficking likely.) One time a new gal at the Exxon actually was carding people for beer and the Mexican in front of me didn't understand. Then finally pulled out some kind of a foreign license or id of some type and bought his beer. (Technically, that is a crime also since only a state issued id or military id is allowed for proof to buy alcohol.)

Sure little things. Not the major crimes illegals often commit- like rape, murder, DUI accidents, child molesting, etc but why do such petty laws apply to any American- but not to illegals? Why do we need a driver's license, insurance, inspection, registration, seat-belts, and cannot enjoy a "cerveza" while driving- but they can with seeming immunity?

I like Ike.

[FightTheFuture]

Yeah it is the illegals fault for that. Or even the private contractor.
It has absolutely nothing to do with the American looking to get the job done for as cheap as possible, right?

The culture? Myrtle Beach? You mean the illegals don't make sexytime with their sisters?

As usual, you haven`t a clue. First of all, I don`t blame the illegals for venturing North to make a better life for their families. I`d do the same thing were I to find myself in similar circumstances. For the most part, they`re decent, hard working folks. They just have NO interest in learning our laws, customs, history, language, or culture.

I know a number of private contractors who only hire LEGAL workers. They pay a fair, market-driven wage  (keeping in mind, South Carolina is a NON-union state). Unfortunately, they`re constantly underbid on contracts due to unscrupulous contractors, breaking the law, and  utilizing a largely illegal alien work force, who will work for next to nothing. Perhaps you think that`s fair; I don`t.

[Bart Ell]

As usual, you haven`t a clue. First of all, I don`t blame the illegals for venturing North to make a better life for their families. I`d do the same thing were I to find myself in similar circumstances. For the most part, they`re decent, hard working folks. They just have NO interest in learning our laws, customs, history, language, or culture.

I know a number of private contractors who only hire LEGAL workers. They pay a fair, market-driven wage  (keeping in mind, South Carolina is a NON-union state). Unfortunately, they`re constantly underbid on contracts due to unscrupulous contractors, breaking the law, and  utilizing a largely illegal alien work force, who will work for next to nothing. Perhaps you think that`s fair; I don`t.

You are right, I do not have a clue... while you continue on about a fair wage and blaming unscrupulous contractors and not the customer who is demanding a lower cost.

Aren't these unscrupulous contractors also trying to provide a better life for their families by actually getting contracts by supplying what the customer wants?

The market-driven wage is what the unscrupulous contractors pays the illegals.

Ask the customer if he wants to pay 40% more and have his fence put up by real Americans. Make it a selling point... then see how quick you go out of business.

[FightTheFuture]

You are right, I do not have a clue... while you continue on about a fair wage and blaming unscrupulous contractors and not the customer who is demanding a lower cost.

Aren't these unscrupulous contractors also trying to provide a better life for their families by actually getting contracts by supplying what the customer wants?

The market-driven wage is what the unscrupulous contractors pays the illegals.

Ask the customer if he wants to pay 40% more and have his fence put up by real Americans. Make it a selling point... then see how quick you go out of business.

I`m currently enjoying an adult beverage  while watching the ranking member (Elijah Cummings, D-Md) of the congressional oversight committee make a complete fool of himself. However, I will get back to you. You may wish to take another look at that imbecilic post of yours and make some changes. Ciao for now.

[albrecht]

The market-driven wage is what the unscrupulous contractors pays the illegals.

Ask the customer if he wants to pay 40% more and have his fence put up by real Americans. Make it a selling point... then see how quick you go out of business.

Ask those same Americans if they will have to pay 40% more for their fence (which they would not, actually, but assume your point) but would also save many billions and have to pay less taxes and insurance costs. If you consider the amount of financial, not to mention personal, damage and costs by the illegals in court costs, imprisonment, vehicle accidents (usually uninsured), healthcare, public schooling of their brood, and in property crime vs the cost to hire some Americans to build your fence. It is clear we would save in aggregate. Your fence might cost a bit more but you would need to pay less in taxes (assuming the government would ever lower them once the illegal problems were gone.) And maybe we would need less fences once the criminal illegal alien problem and cartel/gang problem was lessened?

Plus how many rapes, murders, or DUI accidents is worth the slightly cheaper fence in your yard?

[Bart Ell]

Get serious, these are the same people getting payday loans, maxing out credit cards and pawning whatever they have to pawn. 9/10 people will choose the cheaper fence.

[albrecht]

Get serious, these are the same people getting payday loans, maxing out credit cards and pawning whatever they have to pawn. 9/10 people will choose the cheaper fence.

Maybe, at least until their cheap illegal worker rapes their child or paralyzes their wife in a DUI accident, or even just simple theft. (Happens all the time, just look at your local police report or news broadcasts.) But your point is well taken. Most people do act in their short-term, self-interest- often to their long-term detriment. That is why financial education, logical thinking, etc (most people can't even figure out simple interest or balance a checkbook) should be taught and why we need leadership who look past short-term, political decisions and explain the situation to people honestly.