Drones

[area51drone]

I should have created this topic a long time ago, for obvious reasons.   Here are two must watch videos on the subject:


Raffaello D'Andrea: The astounding athletic power of quadcopters


Power of Drones - Totally Cool Uses for Drones

[area51drone]

And now people are using drones to steal drugs from one another:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/shropshire-criminals-using-unmanned-drones-and-infrared-cameras-to-find-illegal-cannabis-farms--and-then-steal-from-the-growers-9267587.html

[Mr Bloom]

This thing scares the bejeesus out of me. Just imagine these patrolling the streets with turrets

Boston Dynamics Big Dog (new video March 2008)

[Mind Flayer Monk]

This thing scares the bejeesus out of me. Just imagine these patrolling the streets with turrets
Boston Dynamics Big Dog (new video March 2008)

The power source isn't there for any of that stuff. That thing has a gas engine and it only lasts for a few minutes on a full tank of gas. There will be no improvement on the efficiency of gas engines that will make that thing run for more than 5 minutes at most.

If you look at all the other robot tech from the same company and others, they have these giant power lines running into the robot. The power source just isn't there. If you look at the DoD open bids its full of solicitations for people to make better batteries. Huge technology hurdle. And even if that technology hurdle is cleared, it would destroy big energy.

Here are some drones for sale to the general market. They cost around $1000-2000 and the battery life is 25-30 minutes.
http://www.dji.com/

[Mind Flayer Monk]

The power source isn't there for any of that stuff. That thing has a gas engine and it only lasts for a few minutes on a full tank of gas. There will be no improvement on the efficiency of gas engines that will make that thing run for more than 5 minutes at most.

Edit: I take back the 5 minutes run time. I am not exactly sure how long the thing lasts. I was looking around trying to find out. It has a gocart engine-anyone with a gocart engine know about how long a gocart can run for on a full tank of gas?
Just found something- 2.5 hours, no load, continuous operation runtime on the BigDog.
It also has to power a sensor array.

Here is a presentation on it showing the software architecture as well. Check out the vest the user/controller wears.

http://www.bostondynamics.com/img/BigDog_Overview.pdf

Also, Google acquired Boston Dynamics in December of 2013.

[Mr Bloom]

That's neat! Not entirely reassuring, but a little bit I guess thanks for the info. The google angle is pretty spooky though

[wr250]

It Looks Like Raging Hockey Fans Destroyed An LAPD Drone Last Night
Multiple videos have been posted online showing what uploaders described as hockey fans destroying a Los Angeles Police Department drone outside the Staples Center Friday night after the LA Kings won the NHL's Stanley Cup.
Riot police were called in to break up what the LA Times described as a "melee" outside the arena following the King's victory over the New York Rangers.




http://www.businessinsider.com/raging-hockey-fans-destroy-lapd-drone-2014-6


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KR39DErszRE#t=58

[albrecht]

It Looks Like Raging Hockey Fans Destroyed An LAPD Drone Last Night
Multiple videos have been posted online showing what uploaders described as hockey fans destroying a Los Angeles Police Department drone outside the Staples Center Friday night after the LA Kings won the NHL's Stanley Cup.
Riot police were called in to break up what the LA Times described as a "melee" outside the arena following the King's victory over the New York Rangers.




http://www.businessinsider.com/raging-hockey-fans-destroy-lapd-drone-2014-6


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KR39DErszRE#t=58

I saw that. Funny how simple technology can take out the high-dollar government technology. But also wondered about the guy now having to walk home with only one shoe.

[Yorkshire pud]

Sorry to be the pedant; No I'm not. It's not a drone. It's a quadcopter. A radio controlled one. They come in flavours of 3, 4, 5, 6, 8 and 10.. but they're not drones.

[albrecht]

Sorry to be the pedant; No I'm not. It's not a drone. It's a quadcopter. A radio controlled one. They come in flavours of 3, 4, 5, 6, 8 and 10.. but they're not drones.

What is the difference? I guess just the distance from the controller and the vehicle? At what point is a simple r/c helicopter or plane becomes a drone? I think both are legally UAVs at least here in the US according to the FAA. So the difference would be the height of flight? Either way funny some guy used a shoe to knock it down.

[Yorkshire pud]

What is the difference? I guess just the distance from the controller and the vehicle? At what point is a simple r/c helicopter or plane becomes a drone? I think both are legally UAVs at least here in the US according to the FAA. So the difference would be the height of flight? Either way funny some guy used a shoe to knock it down.

'Drone' is a press driven lazy way of explaining something that flies, because the ones writing it and reading it can't be arsed to do any homework. It started with the launch of the first UAV's (Global Hawk) and has now infested the language to mean anything that flies without a pilot on board. I've heard a father tell his young lad that the scale models at a fly-in event were drones.

[albrecht]

'Drone' is a press driven lazy way of explaining something that flies, because the ones writing it and reading it can't be arsed to do any homework. It started with the launch of the first UAV's (Global Hawk) and has now infested the language to mean anything that flies without a pilot on board. I've heard a father tell his young lad that the scale models at a fly-in event were drones.

Yah, I can see that. But seriously when my nephew puts a GoPro on his r/c copter it is pretty much a surveillance "drone" now. No on-board pilot, remotely controlled, streaming video to iPad, etc. To me, I guess, it is just that the real "drone" can legally operate higher and be controlled from a further distance. (I think FAA says the r/c stuff can only fly so high.) I also am not sure what the laws are regarding r/c stuff. When he flies over the neighborhood over someone else's house is that legal? Is intent the issue there (say just for fun versus trying to take pictures of someone sunbathing or for some extortion plot?)

[area51drone]

'Drone' is a press driven lazy way of explaining something that flies, because the ones writing it and reading it can't be arsed to do any homework. It started with the launch of the first UAV's (Global Hawk) and has now infested the language to mean anything that flies without a pilot on board. I've heard a father tell his young lad that the scale models at a fly-in event were drones.

Jesus Christ you like to complain about the stupidest things.   

from Dictionary.com, look it up:

    an unmanned aircraft or ship that can navigate autonomously, without human control or beyond line of sight:
    the GPS of a U.S. spy drone.

    (loosely) any unmanned aircraft or ship that is guided remotely:
    a radio-controlled drone.

Even though the second is loosely, quadcopters or any RC vehicle that can operate beyond the line of sight (like the drone mentioned), qualifies completely.

Now let's talk about your use of the American language ... "arsed"?    WTF dude...

British Dictionary definitions for arsed
arsed (ɑːst)

â€" adj
   slang be arsed to be willing, inclined, or prepared (esp in the phrase can't be arsed)

This isn't a British forum, and we don't use slang here, thank you very much.

[Yorkshire pud]

Yah, I can see that. But seriously when my nephew puts a GoPro on his r/c copter it is pretty much a surveillance "drone" now. No on-board pilot, remotely controlled, streaming video to iPad, etc. To me, I guess, it is just that the real "drone" can legally operate higher and be controlled from a further distance. (I think FAA says the r/c stuff can only fly so high.) I also am not sure what the laws are regarding r/c stuff. When he flies over the neighborhood over someone else's house is that legal? Is intent the issue there (say just for fun versus trying to take pictures of someone sunbathing or for some extortion plot?)

I'm not certain on the detail differences between the UK and USA but our CAA (Our equivalent of your FAA) lays down pretty strict rules regarding any flying aircraft, be they free flight or R/C. Anyone using the airspace is governed by the Air navigation Order, and some unwittingly neither know or understand that when they go down to their local hobby shop and buy several hundred quids worth of gear.

Simply put, an aeroplane is restricted to below 400 feet above ground level if it weighs more than 7Kg. If it weighs more than 20Kg (Flying weight-so this will include any fuel) it has to be inspected by an appointed LMA (Large model association) inspector who oversees the planning, building, radio installation and test flying of the finished aircraft. Above (I think) 40Kg it has to be seconded by another chief inspector.
The altitude limits can and are exceeded with the issuing of a NOTAM by the CAA for special events, shows etc. These usually lift the upper limit to about 2000 above Ground level. I've flown gliders over 1200 feet, and it demands quite a bit of concentration and pain killers to overcome the stiff neck later.

Flying over people, buildings and in fact anyone's property is not allowed, mainly for safety reasons. Filming topless sunbathing would come under laws involving stalking and harassment I would think. I've seen out of control gliders have their wings torn off in a dive and the fuselage buried in the ground up to it's wing roots. Fortunately well away from where anyone was standing, I've seen reports of crashes involving people and spinning props too. Thankfully it doesn't happen very often. We have a sacrificial attitude in that if we had an aircraft that was looking dodgy we'd dump it into waste ground away from anyone. It means writing off a considerable amount of investment, but the alternative is far far worse.

All the above and lower weights must be flown in line of sight of the person on the controls. This means that remote FPV flying where the operator cannot see the aircraft directly is illegal and from feedback from those who have been in meetings with the CAA is the single most worrisome thing that currently concerns the CAA and full size pilots. You'll have no doubt seen YT vids of ridiculous altitudes and distances being flown with FPV, these vids have not gone unnoticed by the CAA and it terrifies them that one day one of these morons will bring down an aircraft. That isn't to do with Big Brother or trying to spoil anyone's fun, it's a real worry that is shared by those who fly responsibly. I for one have a vested interest in making sure draconian restrictions aren't brought in that will make flying more trouble than it's worth. 

[albrecht]

I'm not certain on the detail differences between the UK and USA but our CAA (Our equivalent of your FAA) lays down pretty strict rules regarding any flying aircraft, be they free flight or R/C. Anyone using the airspace is governed by the Air navigation Order, and some unwittingly neither know or understand that when they go down to their local hobby shop and buy several hundred quids worth of gear.

Simply put, an aeroplane is restricted to below 400 feet above ground level if it weighs more than 7Kg. If it weighs more than 20Kg (Flying weight-so this will include any fuel) it has to be inspected by an appointed LMA (Large model association) inspector who oversees the planning, building, radio installation and test flying of the finished aircraft. Above (I think) 40Kg it has to be seconded by another chief inspector.
The altitude limits can and are exceeded with the issuing of a NOTAM by the CAA for special events, shows etc. These usually lift the upper limit to about 2000 above Ground level. I've flown gliders over 1200 feet, and it demands quite a bit of concentration and pain killers to overcome the stiff neck later.

Flying over people, buildings and in fact anyone's property is not allowed, mainly for safety reasons. Filming topless sunbathing would come under laws involving stalking and harassment I would think. I've seen out of control gliders have their wings torn off in a dive and the fuselage buried in the ground up to it's wing roots. Fortunately well away from where anyone was standing, I've seen reports of crashes involving people and spinning props too. Thankfully it doesn't happen very often. We have a sacrificial attitude in that if we had an aircraft that was looking dodgy we'd dump it into waste ground away from anyone. It means writing off a considerable amount of investment, but the alternative is far far worse.

All the above and lower weights must be flown in line of sight of the person on the controls. This means that remote FPV flying where the operator cannot see the aircraft directly is illegal and from feedback from those who have been in meetings with the CAA is the single most worrisome thing that currently concerns the CAA and full size pilots. You'll have no doubt seen YT vids of ridiculous altitudes and distances being flown with FPV, these vids have not gone unnoticed by the CAA and it terrifies them that one day one of these morons will bring down an aircraft. That isn't to do with Big Brother or trying to spoil anyone's fun, it's a real worry that is shared by those who fly responsibly. I for one have a vested interest in making sure draconian restrictions aren't brought in that will make flying more trouble than it's worth.

It is only a matter of time, sadly, that an accident will occur or some crazy/terrorist will use a R/C vehicle for bad ends. I'm not sure what the laws are here though I know we have them with regard to height and operation close to an airport. It is amazing how cheap the technology has become and the quality of video one can get from the r/c. I was jokingly think of mounting a .22 on it for fun and making a "real drone" but thought better of it, though I'm not sure that would actually be illegal if I was flying over my own property? I also wonder if there are "exemption" for lower class motors (like how rules for mopeds and 50cc or less are different than for motorcycles). I see some guy flying an ultralight over his property all the time and the thing looks like a go-cart of the sky. Almost homemade with an old lawnmower engine on it!

[Yorkshire pud]

It is only a matter of time, sadly, that an accident will occur or some crazy/terrorist will use a R/C vehicle for bad ends. I'm not sure what the laws are here though I know we have them with regard to height and operation close to an airport. It is amazing how cheap the technology has become and the quality of video one can get from the r/c. I was jokingly think of mounting a .22 on it for fun and making a "real drone" but thought better of it, though I'm not sure that would actually be illegal if I was flying over my own property? I also wonder if there are "exemption" for lower class motors (like how rules for mopeds and 50cc or less are different than for motorcycles). I see some guy flying an ultralight over his property all the time and the thing looks like a go-cart of the sky. Almost homemade with an old lawnmower engine on it!

I don't know if it's still on line, but some idiot posted a vid of him flying his FPV (first person view) equipped model around the Statue of Liberty. He was found and prosecuted. Similarly there was one flying up close to a landing airliner. I think he was found and prosecuted too.

As for building one and using as a weapon? Sure. it's possible, The Germans did it with the V1 and that wasn't controlled (A drone in every sense of the word), so with the resources and expertise it's possible. However, to have any effect it would need to be built with LOTS of power to carry enough explosive that would have any appreciable effect.. It would also need to be test flown and system checked to ensure it worked.    All under extreme secrecy because believe me if the Feds even sniffed that such a project was taking place they would come down damned hard. To that end I STRONGLY advise you don't mount anything that goes bang on anything flying.

True Story:
I'm acquainted with an aerospace engineer who works at a very well known company in the UK. You might have heard of a project; an autonomous aeroplane called Taranis? He told me it was a test bed for various systems that eventually went into the final version. Autonomous insofar it is entirely independent from take off to landing. It does have safety systems installed and a ground based (or presumably chase plane based) operator can take over if it goes out of shape. He told me the paperwork that they had to go through to seek permission for it's first flight was huge. It had to be triple and quadruple signed off by very highly placed individuals who literally would take the shit if it went wrong. It was made clear the CAA would have been very positive in making sure heads would roll if it had.

This was for a single flight in mainland Britain in controlled and uncontrolled airspace..Controlled airspace is the areas that are covered by the centres with radar for airports and military bases. He said there were a lot of puckering arses until it was confirmed it had landed without incident. I have no idea (though it would seem likely) if this has been repeated with further flights and with different aircraft. He did say that it was spotted and someone called in to the local paper to say they'd seen a UFO; Which strictly it was,. 

[albrecht]

I don't know if it's still on line, but some idiot posted a vid of him flying his FPV (first person view) equipped model around the Statue of Liberty. He was found and prosecuted. Similarly there was one flying up close to a landing airliner. I think he was found and prosecuted too.

As for building one and using as a weapon? Sure. it's possible, The Germans did it with the V1 and that wasn't controlled (A drone in every sense of the word), so with the resources and expertise it's possible. However, to have any effect it would need to be built with LOTS of power to carry enough explosive that would have any appreciable effect.. It would also need to be test flown and system checked to ensure it worked.    All under extreme secrecy because believe me if the Feds even sniffed that such a project was taking place they would come down damned hard. To that end I STRONGLY advise you don't mount anything that goes bang on anything flying.

True Story:
I'm acquainted with an aerospace engineer who works at a very well known company in the UK. You might have heard of a project; an autonomous aeroplane called Taranis? He told me it was a test bed for various systems that eventually went into the final version. Autonomous insofar it is entirely independent from take off to landing. It does have safety systems installed and a ground based (or presumably chase plane based) operator can take over if it goes out of shape. He told me the paperwork that they had to go through to seek permission for it's first flight was huge. It had to be triple and quadruple signed off by very highly placed individuals who literally would take the shit if it went wrong. It was made clear the CAA would have been very positive in making sure heads would roll if it had.

This was for a single flight in mainland Britain in controlled and uncontrolled airspace..Controlled airspace is the areas that are covered by the centres with radar for airports and military bases. He said there were a lot of puckering arses until it was confirmed it had landed without incident. I have no idea (though it would seem likely) if this has been repeated with further flights and with different aircraft. He did say that it was spotted and someone called in to the local paper to say they'd seen a UFO; Which strictly it was,.

Neat story. Yeah, that Taranis would DEFINITELY be claimed as a UFO sighting. I saw a story about how small r/c helicopters are being used (or at least developed) to take out IED and mines. Actually sort of like my simple idea of mounting a .22 but instead just a 12gauge shotgun with a "lock-busting" type of shell I think pointed downwards. The operator can hover over it and check it out and if found to be a mine or IED blow it up. Basically made from off-the-shelf stuff pretty easily. I'm guessing one could even in the future maybe mount a metal detector and scan ground for mines/IEDs (or for gold!) Though right now I think the battery power storage weight is an issue though I guess one could make one using fuel (but again weight of fuel.)

About the only interesting question I've heard on C2C recently was about the Google etc self-drive and even the "smart" cars we have now and if the algorithms programmed in would cause some concern. Like if getting into an accident would a google car make a moral decision better for me in mine swerve to hit a bridge abutment versus crashing into another car with 2 people in it. And would the police, or hacker, be able to shut it down or even direct it to another location (I've heard police/military already experimenting with minature EMP like device to shut down cars.)

ps: speaking of drones and the V-1 rockets. Watched a fascinating documentary last night called "What the Dambusters Did Next" off of Ch5. Really cool and worth watching.

[Yorkshire pud]

ps: speaking of drones and the V-1 rockets. Watched a fascinating documentary last night called "What the Dambusters Did Next" off of Ch5. Really cool and worth watching.

Yes, I watched it when it was broadcast here a couple of weeks ago. I had no idea about their history post dam raids. I did know about the attack on Tirpitz but not the attacks on the V2 emplacement and the multi barreled guns aimed at the UK. Astonishing feats of bravery. The story of Leonard Cheshire's low level warning to the French factory workers was quite something.

[albrecht]

The story of Leonard Cheshire's low level warning to the French factory workers was quite something.

Yes, that was just amazing and was surprised I have never heard of that. One would think that story of warning the civilians and successful raid would be such a huge story. Real heroes and I enjoyed hearing the almost cavalier conversations on the radio transmissions they played whilst under flak! It was awesome also to see and hear the short interviews with the actual participants- from both sides. I hope they release a longer version with more conversations with the people. Sadly most are going soon and there we will not be able to hear first-hand accounts.

[West of the Rockies]

A51 wrote:  "This isn't a British forum, and we don't use slang here, thank you very much."

Sod of you wanker.

[Yorkshire pud]

A51 wrote:  "This isn't a British forum, and we don't use slang here, thank you very much."

Sod of you wanker.

You know you'd fit in here don't you?  Especially at the bar and taxi queue!

[Yorkshire pud]

Yes, that was just amazing and was surprised I have never heard of that. One would think that story of warning the civilians and successful raid would be such a huge story. Real heroes and I enjoyed hearing the almost cavalier conversations on the radio transmissions they played whilst under flak! It was awesome also to see and hear the short interviews with the actual participants- from both sides. I hope they release a longer version with more conversations with the people. Sadly most are going soon and there we will not be able to hear first-hand accounts.

Have you seen this? It's incredible...The film is fiction...Especially amazing is the account of one of the old boys and him re-telling the training.. Remember this was a multi national squadron: US, Aussie, NZ, Brit, SA crew members.


Dambusters Declassified Documentary - full 1 hour version - Martin Shaw


This documentary is more comprehensive, and lifts the lid on a lot of the story.

World War 2's Dambusters and the Complete Story Behind the Daring Mission (Full Documentary)

[albrecht]

Have you seen this? It's incredible...The film is fiction...Especially amazing is the account of one of the old boys and him re-telling the training.. Remember this was a multi national squadron: US, Aussie, NZ, Brit, SA crew members.


Dambusters Declassified Documentary - full 1 hour version - Martin Shaw


This documentary is more comprehensive, and lifts the lid on a lot of the story.

World War 2's Dambusters and the Complete Story Behind the Daring Mission (Full Documentary)

No, I have not seen those but downloading them now. Thanks for sending the links!

[West of the Rockies]

You know you'd fit in here don't you?  Especially at the bar and taxi queue!

Can I get a cold Guinness?  Is it true that most take their ales warm or room temp?

[Yorkshire pud]

Can I get a cold Guinness?  Is it true that most take their ales warm or room temp?

Yes, you can have a cold Guinness. Our beers come in several styles... Bitter is usually a dark honey/nutty colour, and has a myriad of flavours. Made for hops, malt and yeast and water. There are the big brewery corporate bitters, and the micro brewery beers, which are some delicious tasting compliments to food or on their own. So many it would be impossible to list them. Usually served at cool rather than very cold.

And whatever anyone tells you, Northern beer is better than southern beer. It usually has a head of froth on top, whereas London beer is not only warm, but flatter than a pancake.

Then there are the lagers..Or as some call it, Continental fizz: Pilsners and such.. Stella, Fosters, Carling, Heinekin etc... Some are sharper than others.. Usually served cold.

Then the dark stuff..Guinness, Magners etc..

Our beers tend to have a higher volume of alcohol than such as Bud and similar.   

[albrecht]

Yes, you can have a cold Guinness. Our beers come in several styles... Bitter is usually a dark honey/nutty colour, and has a myriad of flavours. Made for hops, malt and yeast and water. There are the big brewery corporate bitters, and the micro brewery beers, which are some delicious tasting compliments to food or on their own. So many it would be impossible to list them. Usually served at cool rather than very cold.

And whatever anyone tells you, Northern beer is better than southern beer. It usually has a head of froth on top, whereas London beer is not only warm, but flatter than a pancake.

Then there are the lagers..Or as some call it, Continental fizz: Pilsners and such.. Stella, Fosters, Carling, Heinekin etc... Some are sharper than others.. Usually served cold.

Then the dark stuff..Guinness, Magners etc..

Our beers tend to have a higher volume of alcohol than such as Bud and similar.

Guinness is Irish and actually has less ABV than say Budweiser, but much better. Recently they have been marketing a "Guinness Cold" in pubs but I actually think it is better warmer. The Extra Stout Import (found in Africa, the Caribbean mainly) is awesome and very strong ABV. Re: English beers. It is a matter of taste. It depends on your mood. I actually really like warm, flat bitter even London Pride! But I'm weird and actually love English food also. Can't stand the new gastropub scene with their fusion or healthier food. But like the smaller brew Kentish ales the best. Tasty, though something changes, I think when bottled and drank over here in the USA versus on draught. Though also have an strong affection for Tennents 70 which is Scottish. From what I've read I think certainty most "continental lagers" and European beers are stronger ABV than most UK ones and USA ones. But I think say Budweiser at 5%ABV is stronger than most bitters.

[Yorkshire pud]

Speckled Hen, Bishops Finger, Pale Rider are three lovely beers. I'm not sure you'll get them bottled over in the US, but worth looking out for. Kept in a cool cellar rather than the fridge. Releases all the notes and nose in them..oh get me! 

[albrecht]

Speckled Hen, Bishops Finger, Pale Rider are three lovely beers. I'm not sure you'll get them bottled over in the US, but worth looking out for. Kept in a cool cellar rather than the fridge. Releases all the notes and nose in them..oh get me! 

Can get Old Speckled Hen, I haven't seen the others over here. Spitfire is also good. And I really like Courage Director's on draught. And London Pride. Not sure why "bitter" aren't exported over here but I suspect that the taste is more "acquired" as we are used to our beer being a very light lager/pilsner style and very cold. But the specialty and micro brew market is getting huge. I'm getting thirsty now!

[Yorkshire pud]

Can get Old Speckled Hen, I haven't seen the others over here. Spitfire is also good. And I really like Courage Director's on draught. And London Pride. Not sure why "bitter" aren't exported over here but I suspect that the taste is more "acquired" as we are used to our beer being a very light lager/pilsner style and very cold. But the specialty and micro brew market is getting huge. I'm getting thirsty now!

Google Kelham Island brewery in Sheffield. Small independent. They do Pale Rider (Among others). I think they export to the US too, you might be able to find an agent.

[Kelt]

I think if you saw a drone in your neighbourhood you would have to give serious consideration to knocking it out of the sky just on general principle.