Will there be blood?

[paladin1991]

I'm always skeptical of those who sell a whole lot of shit on their websites.  Always wondering how many of the so called 'watchmen' are just shilling and pandering.

[aldousburbank]

I'm always skeptical of those who sell a whole lot of shit on their websites.  Always wondering how many of the so called 'watchmen' are just shilling and pandering.

Yeah, fucking MV.

[onan]

Both Ruby Ridge and the Waco siege were instigated because of illegal arms. Both incidents were rooted in fundamentalist (fucking nuts) religion.

All the people that traveled to Nevada to be part of a militia and setting their women folk as meat shields with the hopes of targeting federal agents are nut bags. To suggest they are patriots is a slur to the patriots that have given much more than gas money and chamo gear.

[aldousburbank]

Both Ruby Ridge and the Waco siege were instigated because of illegal arms. Both incidents were rooted in fundamentalist (fucking nuts) religion.

All the people that traveled to Nevada to be part of a militia and setting their women folk as meat shields with the hopes of targeting federal agents are nut bags. To suggest they are patriots is a slur to the patriots that have given much more than gas money and chamo gear.

No no no, didn't mean to suggest patriotism or lack of crazy, only that shooting is a really bad option for dealing with mental cases or otherwise. Although admittedly, unhinged mentals and hipsters are why my Remington 870 has 00 load of course so...

[paladin1991]

No no no, didn't mean to suggest patriotism or lack of crazy, only that shooting is a really bad option for dealing with mental cases or otherwise. Although admittedly, unhinged mentals and hipsters are why my Remington 870 has 00 load of course so...

You gotta be ready.  The Zombie apocalypse is only a heart beat away.

[Yorkshire pud]

  Hmmm.  Sound like there's still some butthurt some 200 years on fm the losers of that little unpleasantness.

Oh you mean me? There's a misconception by some Americans that anyone in the UK really gives a shit about what happened over the pond 250 or so years ago. You could ask a hundred random people on the streets of every town and city in the UK and I'd be very surprised if it got into high single figures of those who really cared, and about the same of those who knew what happened . So sorry to disappoint you on that score.

[Yorkshire pud]

Please tell me Yorkie, that you didn't order the patriot survival toffee popcorn from infowars.com.

I tried to naturally, but my order was rejected and I was accused of being a CIA stooge because I asked it to be delivered in a plain wrapper. I can't have the neighbours seeing I ordered from AJ can I? The shame. But I know it's uncontaminated with poisons that everyday toffee popcorn has infused inside.

[aldousburbank]

Oh you mean me? There's a misconception by some Americans that anyone in the UK really gives a shit about what happened over the pond 250 or so years ago. You could ask a hundred random people on the streets of every town and city in the UK and I'd be very surprised if it got into high single figures of those who really cared, and about the same of those who knew what happened . So sorry to disappoint you on that score.

I think the world just woke up on the bitchy side if the bed today. I know I did.

[Yorkshire pud]

I think the world just woke up on the bitchy side if the bed today. I know I did.

I'm not being bitchy today, just a bit dejected because my rudder post isn't straight, and will need a remake...


Don't ask.

[onan]

I think the world just woke up on the bitchy side if the bed today. I know I did.

I sleep on a circular bed... so, yeah, always.

[paladin1991]

I think the world just woke up on the bitchy side if the bed today. I know I did.

But it's cool, bro.  Cuz we are all here at Bellgab where we can bitch and moan with the best and its all good.

[Yorkshire pud]

I sleep on a circular bed... so, yeah, always.

Oh I see, straightbedism... Has to be a show off in a circular bed.

[RealCool Daddio]

Poor Clive.  Just keeps digging that hole:

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2014/04/25/cliven_bundy_on_martin_luther_king_jr_and_negro.html


http://youtu.be/b97zJxKEqAk

[Yorkshire pud]

Poor Clive.  Just keeps digging that hole:

That's Cliven to you Mister! He was called Cliven because his mother gave an extra push NNNnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn.


I'm here all week, tell your friends.

Hey, he doesn't think it's wrong to make disparaging comments, and forgets offence is taken by the offended, whether or not he intended it. But then, he forgets a lot of things I suppose...

[Robert Ghostwolf's Ghost]

Just a couple of musings that occurred to me in the last couple of days about this situation--

Apparently, the people who flocked to the ranch to support Bundy and who believe the oppressive U.S. government is stealing their freedom don't realize that under an actual oppressive government, they'd already be dead or locked up in some hell hole prison that makes Gitmo look like Club Hedonism. Real totalitarians don't mess around with dissenters.

Are all of the supporters at the ranch taking time off from work to be there, or are some of them unemployed and receiving government assistance of some kind?  Did they travel on government highways built at taxpayer expense, or did they use back roads? 

There are probably many ranchers who share some of Bundy's views about the federal government, yet they still pay their grazing fees.  Are they saps or dupes or cowards?  Or are they law-abiding citizens rendering unto Caesar even if they disagree with him, and Bundy is just a common scofflaw?

The American people own the grazing land, not the BLM, which means Bundy is stealing from all of us, not some faceless government agency.

That's all.  Pummel away.

[Jackstar]

There are probably many ranchers

There are not many ranchers... period.

who share some of Bundy's views about the federal government, yet they still pay their grazing fees.  Are they saps or dupes or cowards?

Yes.

[Robert Ghostwolf's Ghost]

There are not many ranchers... period.
Yes.

Probably should have said, "many of the people who ranch" then.  That's what I meant.

Care to elaborate on the second answer?  And what's your opinion of farmers and ranchers who accept government subsidies?  Should they refuse them on principle even though they are legally entitled to them?

[Jackstar]

Care to elaborate on the second answer?

If figuring out who assassinated Kennedy was optional, so is paying taxes.

And what's your opinion of farmers and ranchers who accept government subsidies?  Should they refuse them on principle even though they are legally entitled to them?

I've never met anyone like that, so I cannot rightly say. However, I can tell you that the diesel engine was invented two centuries ago to run on hemp fuel, which can be produced significantly cheaper than petroleum fuel, and yet, people are still growing corn to add to gasoline.

So I could give a shit about the entire subsidy issue, as it is one tiny cog in a huge machine of tremendous bullshit. Let's not lose sight of that fact.

The six people who own Wal-Mart inherited all their wealth and have, themselves, not done a single thing for any other person in their entire lives, and they collectively own 40% of the wealth in this nation. Meanwhile, some guy allegedly owes a million bucks over 20 years, and out come the helicopters and the rifles?

Sure, sure--whatever. :rolleyes:

[onan]

The six people who own Wal-Mart inherited all their wealth and have, themselves, not done a single thing for any other person in their entire lives, and they collectively own 40% of the wealth in this nation. Meanwhile, some guy allegedly owes a million bucks over 20 years, and out come the helicopters and the rifles?

Sure, sure--whatever. :rolleyes:

Well, first off, no one is going to walmart and organizing a militia.

But you seem to have enough contempt to handle both situations.

I agree what the Waltons have created is, if not illegal, certainly  is unethical. But money and ethics are hardly ever in the same room at the same time.

You may not like how the BLM works. You may think it is efficient. As I understand it, Nevada is working through the courts to change who owns the land.
Not liking a law is not the same as the law being bad. You think people paying for grazing on public lands makes them saps. I think renting someone else's property for use is sensible. Bundy is a mooch, no different than a panhandler, except more dishonest.

[PB the Deplorable]

... You may not like how the BLM works. You may think it is efficient. As I understand it, Nevada is working through the courts to change who owns the land...

From what I understand, the Congress never passed the law authorizing these fees, the BLM bureaucracy just one day started charging them - a 'fee' to help 'manage the land.  Bundy has been paying his grazing fees to the state all this time, so he's not exactly a mooching scofflaw.

This whole mess - the Federal government coming into western states and claiming state owned (and sometimes privately owned) land, the militarization of the police and various government agencies, the EPA and the BLM by writing regs that go much further than the intent of any law Congress has passed, Harry Reid and his land deals - I guess this is going to be ground zero for some of it.

And Harry Reid.  Harry is a US Senator - he has no interest and no authority in this at all (have we even hard from the other US Senator from Nevada?), yet he sure seems concerned for someone living in faraway Washington DC with a US Senate to run.  Unless he's got another shady deal going on. 



Interesting son Rory Reid is Clark County Commissioner and former Harry Reid staffer (senior policy advisor) Neil Kornze is now Acting Deputy Director of Programs and Policy at the BLM.  Perfect placement of allies if Dingy Harry wants to do a land deal.

[Jackstar]

You think people paying for grazing on public lands makes them saps.

Quite the contrary, in fact. All saps pay; not all who pay are saps. Was I unclear on this point, or is it simply too subtle? I am pretty bad at explaining myself on certain issues, largely because I enjoy watching people figure things out for themselves.

Also, I like to not be typecast.

[PB the Deplorable]

One good thing that's going to come out of this is the 'Fire Harry Reid' campaign.

This will gin up a few more votes against Democrat Senators elsewhere, maybe enough to swing a Senate election or two.

[Jackstar]

Bundy has been paying his grazing fees to the state all this time, so he's not exactly a mooching scofflaw.

Counting down to the incoming cries of "Evidence! Evidence!" along with the ongoing "Racist! Racist!" murmur in 3... 2... 1...

[Mind Flayer Monk]

Are all of the supporters at the ranch taking time off from work to be there, or are some of them unemployed and receiving government assistance of some kind?  Did they travel on government highways built at taxpayer expense, or did they use back roads? 

Well 10% of them are probably undercover federal agents.

[aldousburbank]

Well, first off, no one is going to walmart and organizing a militia.

You haven't been shopping with me yet.

I agree what the Waltons have created is, if not illegal, certainly  is unethical. But money and ethics are hardly ever in the same room at the same time.

What did JohnBoy ever do to you? Or did you mean Bill and Luke? If so, my bad.

[aldousburbank]

Well 10% of them are probably undercover federal agents.

I'm saying 15%+ and that's my final offer.

[albrecht]

Well 10% of them are probably undercover federal agents.

and another good percentage are plants/agents from groups like the SPLC, JDL, ADL, etc.

[aldousburbank]

Also, I like to not be typecast.

Oh, you're one of those.

[onan]

Oh, you're one of those.

fucking brilliant... Aldous, you leave again... I keel you.

[Jackstar]

seconded!